work bench idea: waddya think?

[BTL-A4]

These type of workbenches used to be sold by Sears, but they are no longer available except on CL occasionally. I decided to design one and see if I could get it made. I thought I would solicit feedback from the GJ community to see if this was a product that people actually wanted. I'd like your feedback about the following:

1. overall size (width, height and depth)
2. number of drawers
3. size (height) of drawers
4. top material
5. other features needed

Given features: ball-bearing drawer slides, pegboard holes on the side, one shelf inside that can move up or down about 2", assembled by end user (it would ship in pieces in a box), drawer handles have a feature that allows the user to slide in paper labels, 16-22Ga sheet metal (I'm still awaiting a cost).

I am looking for something with drawers AND a cupboard with a door. There are products with all drawers, a few drawers and a big shelf below, and all shelves, but I could not find anything with this particular configuration. I did not want wheels, electrical or USB ports, or locks and I wanted to keep the cost low. HF has a product (Yukon 46", 9 drawer, mobile cart) that retails for about $330. Craftsman has a 37: 5-drawer cart for about $319-$369. If they can make that, I'm sure this one could be made for less.

Thanks, I look forward to your thoughts and comments.

 

[lis2323]

, I'm sure this one could be made for less.

Thanks, I look forward to your thoughts and comments.

I doubt it. But good luck.

 

[skulldrinker]

Mine was the high end bench with all drawers. Bought this back in the 80s.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[BTL-A4]

I doubt it. But good luck.

I respectfully disagree. The ones I mentioned all retail for just over $300. They have wheels, handles and locks, none of which I need or want. And, my design is assembled by the end user, so that should save some money on shipping and assembly labor. Seems like my design could retail for around $300.

 

[BTL-A4]

Mine was the high end bench with all drawers. Bought this back in the 80s.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

What do you like and dislike about it?

 

[lis2323]

I respectfully disagree. The ones I mentioned all retail for just over $300. They have wheels, handles and locks, none of which I need or want. And, my design is assembled by the end user, so that should save some money on shipping and assembly labor. Seems like my design could retail for around $300.

Keep us posted. I hope I’m wrong [emoji1]

 

[jeepinerdeep]

I'm calling dibs on it coming it at the $1500-2000 range if you order a few.

Sears and HF bought them by the tens of thousands. That's why they were $300.

 

[Gotcha640]

Are you asking

1. if there's a market for a bench you want to design

B. If anyone's seen the thing you think you remember

iii. Suggestions on what bench to buy

I don't like pegboard, or cupboards, and I prefer a roubo style work bench with a separate tool chest. But I'm weird and I'm cheap so the market doesn't cater to me. Which I'm fine with.

 

[BTL-A4]

Are you asking

1. if there's a market for a bench you want to design

B. If anyone's seen the thing you think you remember

iii. Suggestions on what bench to buy

I don't like pegboard, or cupboards, and I prefer a roubo style work bench with a separate tool chest. But I'm weird and I'm cheap so the market doesn't cater to me. Which I'm fine with.

1. Yes. That can be answered by answering the questions I gave in my original post. I'll either modify the design, give up because no one wants this except me, or figure out how to get these made in quantity.

B. No. I know there's something exactly like this, they just don't seem to make them anymore. I'm not sure why. Maybe there's no market, maybe it's a dumb idea, who knows. I just know I'd like to be able to buy one since nothing else out there fits my needs. I find it hard to believe I'm the only one that would like something like this.

iii. No, I don't need any suggestions for what to buy. I'd just like feedback on my idea.

I've approached a few manufacturers about this. The Chinese ones told me that they can't do this design due to anti-dumping laws because t's too small. Seems 24" deep ones ARE legal because they are "industrial", whereas the other ones like my design are "consumer". The shallower Craftsman ones are made in the US.

I'm not fond of pegboard, either, but it's ubiquitous so I included it. There's something called Wallcontrol that uses slots.

What do you mean by a "roubo style" work bench?

I have a product design and development background, BTW. The basic plan is to get feedback on the design, get a cost estimate, then approach the right people about getting this into stores.

 

[Gotcha640]

I think enough people shopping for this size bench/tool chest/garage organizer are highly price sensitive, so even if the harbor freight 44 isn't exactly what they're looking for, it will work for what they want. Add a peg board wall and all its missing is the cupboard, and they'll look at the deep bottom drawer and be happy enough.

You say you don't want wheels, but a quick look on alibaba shows heavy duty wheels starting around $3 each. Consider them free if you really don't want them, but most people will want them.

You want to ship in pieces and assemble, but the box has to be as big as all the drawers and the top stacked up anyway, and you have to pay someone to kit your hardware, and print instructions, price might approach the added shipping cost of an assembled unit. I get off work on Friday, I want to fill the box and be working on my lawnmower on Saturday, I'm buying the assembled box.

A lot of car enthusiasts don't want touch screens or automatic transmissions or built in GPS and recognize that a minivan is better than a mall crawling suv for most people, but the mass market wants what it wants, so thats how cars get made.

Roubo work bench (not mine):

 

[2oolhound]

I have one of the sears benches you're referring to. They were discontinued for a reason. They are assembled by screwing sheet metal screws into the pre-drilled holes and after a while the sheet metal screws loose their holding power allowing the bench to shift and then the drawers bind. They get worse and worse. I finally built an angle iron frame around mine (bottom, sides and top) and welded a thick sheet metal sheet across the top surface and complete back which stopped it from shifting out of alignment. The low price for much more solid HF type tool boxes is probably one reason people stopped buying them.

There have been other posts on here about them as well.

Here is a link to a previous THREAD

There was also an older thread talking about the one with a cabinet and drawers like mine and the one you're referring to but I couldn't find it.

 

[tyyost]

It’s an interesting conversation. I don’t see any utility in the cabinet portion, similar to the Cman boxes with the tilt up door on on the bottom of the box. The way I use a tool box I prefer drawers. I can see utility in a locker type setup for mobility but at home I have always preferred the standard 2 door 36” x 72” metal storage cabinet. I use the shelves for lockable storage of bulky tools or blow molded boxes for pullers and other specialty tools.

I understand your thought of an all in one type storage bench, but as many have said there may be more than one reason it doesn’t exist in today’s market.

 

[BTL-A4]

I think enough people shopping for this size bench/tool chest/garage organizer are highly price sensitive, so even if the harbor freight 44 isn't exactly what they're looking for, it will work for what they want. Add a peg board wall and all its missing is the cupboard, and they'll look at the deep bottom drawer and be happy enough.

You say you don't want wheels, but a quick look on alibaba shows heavy duty wheels starting around $3 each. Consider them free if you really don't want them, but most people will want them.

You want to ship in pieces and assemble, but the box has to be as big as all the drawers and the top stacked up anyway, and you have to pay someone to kit your hardware, and print instructions, price might approach the added shipping cost of an assembled unit. I get off work on Friday, I want to fill the box and be working on my lawnmower on Saturday, I'm buying the assembled box.

A lot of car enthusiasts don't want touch screens or automatic transmissions or built in GPS and recognize that a minivan is better than a mall crawling suv for most people, but the mass market wants what it wants, so thats how cars get made.

Roubo work bench (not mine):

It isn't exactly what they are looking for means they need another choice! I think if I can get the price close to or the same as similar items, people may buy it.

I know they can be had cheap, but I think after markup wheels would add about $25 to the retail price. Also, I think this will have to be made in the US, so I'd have to pay US prices.

I thought the same thing about assembly. I'll have to see the price difference between shipping it assembled and shipping it broken down.

Thanks for clarifying what a roubo work bench was.

 

[BTL-A4]

I have one of the sears benches you're referring to. They were discontinued for a reason. They are assembled by screwing sheet metal screws into the pre-drilled holes and after a while the sheet metal screws loose their holding power allowing the bench to shift and then the drawers bind. They get worse and worse. I finally built an angle iron frame around mine (bottom, sides and top) and welded a thick sheet metal sheet across the top surface and complete back which stopped it from shifting out of alignment. The low price for much more solid HF type tool boxes is probably one reason people stopped buying them.

There have been other posts on here about them as well.

Here is a link to a previous THREAD

There was also an older thread talking about the one with a cabinet and drawers like mine and the one you're referring to but I couldn't find it.

Seems like that could be easily remedied with a cross-brace or back piece. I have one and I did that to mine. The sides are just bent sheet metal, too; there is no structure to give them stiffness. I didn't show in my sketch that I designed these to have square tubular features that should add stiffness.

These were sold in the 80's I think. Was HF even a thing back then?

Thanks for the link. People seemed to like the workbenches in that thread. That's what I should have bought instead of the Stack-On metal shelves I got.

 

[Gotcha640]

I guess what I'm saying about accessories is that the designer and the marketing department work out what customers want, which has typically been "everything", and then design and spec to a price. If you can get wheels and handles and usb ports and speakers for the determined price point, you put those in and market the heck out of it.

 

[BTL-A4]

It’s an interesting conversation. I don’t see any utility in the cabinet portion, similar to the Cman boxes with the tilt up door on on the bottom of the box. The way I use a tool box I prefer drawers. I can see utility in a locker type setup for mobility but at home I have always preferred the standard 2 door 36” x 72” metal storage cabinet. I use the shelves for lockable storage of bulky tools or blow molded boxes for pullers and other specialty tools.

I understand your thought of an all in one type storage bench, but as many have said there may be more than one reason it doesn’t exist in today’s market.

This is really meant as an all in one tool box/storage cupboard for the average homeowner, maybe someone who has a few hand tools and maybe a drill and circular saw and maybe some painting stuff. They don't have enough for a full tool box and maybe have limited space in the garage.

Yeah, I wonder why they don't make them anymore.

 

[BTL-A4]

Thanks for the responses so far. Please consider my answers a form of conversation and not arguing. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[m6z]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-H...VzMDACh2zVgh2EAQYHCABEgLCQPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds



Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[m6z]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-5...White-with-Hardwood-Top-H56MWC5GWXD/309192704


https://milwaukeetool.com/Products/Storage-Solutions/Steel-Storage/48-22-8560

 

[Legion Prime]

The idea's far from terrible, I can't say I'd buy one but that's mainly because my dad already bought one very similar from Sears long long before I was born. Here's a pic along with the paperwork I found, maybe it'll be good for some ideas.

 

[BaMaDuDe87]

Commenting to remind myself to take a pic for this thread

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[petej80]

This kind of thing is something I am looking for and for mostly the reasons specified - having some tools that need storing and wanting to do that in a compact area that can double as a bench.

The complement of tools stored would be similar to those mentioned, with the cupboard holding things like power tool cases (a few drills, sander, circular saw, etc . . .).

For me, I am looking at around 32" (800mm), rather than 42" as this would be for a side bench, sitting perpendicular to the main bench (1800mm/70" or so). I would want castors as the bench space would primarily be used for mounting a drill press or sticking a mitre saw on, so the wheels would allow me to move it out for cutting longer pieces.

My current plan is simply to buy a tool cabinet, remove the wheels and then build a small bench on castors that can be wheeled out over the top and then back into place once done (or mounting the cabinet onto a bottom shelf).

When it comes to what you are looking at, it seems that 'all' it is is a tool trolley with the castors removed and a wooden top on it . . . in which case, if it's for your personal use only, thats a fairly easy modification to make. And, if it's something you would think about selling then it'd probably be a simpler to make a kit of sorts.

After all, someone (like me) who would be interested in a do-it-all unit is less likely to have a table saw to cut the top (properly) or a router to round the edges or panel clamps to glue up a suitably thick board.

One unit, available to us here in Australia is the TTITW6DP from Total Tools. (Just doing a quick search - can't vouch for quality - and I can't post links yet.)

This unit is almost exactly what you are looking for (correct size and layout, right down to a pegboard on the side) and could be converted into what you are envisioning by swapping the castors for levelling feet and with the addition of two wooden boards, glued together in an inverted step, so the smaller one fits inside the top (where the rubber mat is) and the larger overhangs by as much as required.

In Australia, where I am, we get shafted on prices so I can only assume that the $800 AUD ($550 USD) we have to fork out for this unit would look closer to $200 for you folk.

For comparison, reference the Milwuakee 61" mobile workbench, model MWTC6111BC1M, available from Home Depot for the paltry sum of $700 USD, which converts to $1000 AUD. I'd pay that . . .

. . . but I can't. Here, we are asked, with straight faces, to dig behind the couch for $2400 AUD. That's $1670 USD; more than twice the US RRP. (As I understand it, these boxes are made in SE Asia - Vietnam, I believe - which is, conversely, twice the distance to the US as it is to Australia. Half as far; twice as much. Go us.)

But I digress. The point is that it seems reasonable that a box like the one I listed above could be had for less than $200 USD and it would not at all be expensive to make - or have made - a top that would sit on top quite nicely.

 

[exmaxima1]

I would think that a modular design makes the most sense, as the user can decide which side to have the "cupboard" on, or possibly have a pair. I built my garage bench like that based on a CM chest. I simply removed the casters, made a pair of wood cabinets, and installed a bench top.

 

[BTL-A4]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-H...VzMDACh2zVgh2EAQYHCABEgLCQPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

These are nice, but they are too big and way too expensive. The dimensions on my proposed design are 42" wide and 18" deep. The top doesn't have to hang over, either. And, I would consider making it 36" wide and marketing it as modular: "Buy 2! and join them together!"

 

[BTL-A4]

I would think that a modular design makes the most sense, as the user can decide which side to have the "cupboard" on, or possibly have a pair. I built my garage bench like that based on a CM chest. I simply removed the casters, made a pair of wood cabinets, and installed a bench top.

Yes, they could be modular. The door and drawers can be put on either side. I thought of having several designs: one that is all drawers, one that is all cupboard and a combination. I just want to keep the price down, so I kept it simple.

 

[BTL-A4]

This kind of thing is something I am looking for and for mostly the reasons specified - having some tools that need storing and wanting to do that in a compact area that can double as a bench.

The complement of tools stored would be similar to those mentioned, with the cupboard holding things like power tool cases (a few drills, sander, circular saw, etc . . .).

For me, I am looking at around 32" (800mm), rather than 42" as this would be for a side bench, sitting perpendicular to the main bench (1800mm/70" or so). I would want castors as the bench space would primarily be used for mounting a drill press or sticking a mitre saw on, so the wheels would allow me to move it out for cutting longer pieces.

My current plan is simply to buy a tool cabinet, remove the wheels and then build a small bench on castors that can be wheeled out over the top and then back into place once done (or mounting the cabinet onto a bottom shelf).

When it comes to what you are looking at, it seems that 'all' it is is a tool trolley with the castors removed and a wooden top on it . . . in which case, if it's for your personal use only, thats a fairly easy modification to make. And, if it's something you would think about selling then it'd probably be a simpler to make a kit of sorts.

After all, someone (like me) who would be interested in a do-it-all unit is less likely to have a table saw to cut the top (properly) or a router to round the edges or panel clamps to glue up a suitably thick board.

One unit, available to us here in Australia is the TTITW6DP from Total Tools. (Just doing a quick search - can't vouch for quality - and I can't post links yet.)

This unit is almost exactly what you are looking for (correct size and layout, right down to a pegboard on the side) and could be converted into what you are envisioning by swapping the castors for levelling feet and with the addition of two wooden boards, glued together in an inverted step, so the smaller one fits inside the top (where the rubber mat is) and the larger overhangs by as much as required.

In Australia, where I am, we get shafted on prices so I can only assume that the $800 AUD ($550 USD) we have to fork out for this unit would look closer to $200 for you folk.

For comparison, reference the Milwuakee 61" mobile workbench, model MWTC6111BC1M, available from Home Depot for the paltry sum of $700 USD, which converts to $1000 AUD. I'd pay that . . .

. . . but I can't. Here, we are asked, with straight faces, to dig behind the couch for $2400 AUD. That's $1670 USD; more than twice the US RRP. (As I understand it, these boxes are made in SE Asia - Vietnam, I believe - which is, conversely, twice the distance to the US as it is to Australia. Half as far; twice as much. Go us.)

But I digress. The point is that it seems reasonable that a box like the one I listed above could be had for less than $200 USD and it would not at all be expensive to make - or have made - a top that would sit on top quite nicely.

The dimensions are open to change. A 32"-36" wide unit could be a possibility. Actually, three 32" units would fit under a 96" piece of MDF for a nice, long workbench. I think it would depend on cost. I could even add mounting for caster wheels and/or feet. I wanted to keep the cost low, so I kept extras to a minimum. Besides, I figured people would add them later anyway.
An issue with casters is that the unit needs to be stiffer so it doesn't flex too much when it's moved around. My design is meant to be stationary. I could look into what it would take to stiffen it up a bit so it can be moved, but I suspect the cost will go up more than I would like.

The top could hang over or be the same dimensions as the top (no overhang). Here in the US, we can go to Home Depot or Lowes and have them cut a piece of MDF to size, so if the user wanted something different, it could be done. It would be easy to include at least an MDF board that fits the top with no overhang. The end user could add a bigger one if desired.

I'm thinking the price should be around $300 USD or less, if these can be made is sufficient quantity.

I also thought of having a back shelf kit, that had a pegboard panel and a shelf above the bench. It would just bolt on the existing holes.

 

[Gotcha640]

At 42 inches wide, or cut down to 32 inches wide for your 3x for a half sheet of mdf, and only 18 inches deep, I would hope it's under $300. With no wheels, you're talking a choice of a stack of drawers or a cabinet with a shelf, and a pegboard panel, right?

For consideration, harbor freight end cabinet is 14.5 wide x 22 deep x 33 high, just a box of drawers, for $219.

 

[BTL-A4]

At 42 inches wide, or cut down to 32 inches wide for your 3x for a half sheet of mdf, and only 18 inches deep, I would hope it's under $300. With no wheels, you're talking a choice of a stack of drawers or a cabinet with a shelf, and a pegboard panel, right?

For consideration, harbor freight end cabinet is 14.5 wide x 22 deep x 33 high, just a box of drawers, for $219.

Not a bad idea, but you'd have to get at least 2 of the HF units to make a workbench, so that's $420 already. And, there's no cupboard with a shelf.

My design has drawers on one side, cupboard with a door on the other. The pegboard is built-in to the side pieces. The holes are stamped when the metal is being formed.

I wonder if a shallower depth is significantly cheaper for some reason? It's less sheet metal and shorter drawer slides, even though I think (from talking to someone who knows) the ball-bearing drawer slides are a large part of the price.

 

[Gotcha640]

I was pointing out that harbor freight, even on a relatively low volume item, is probably selling a thousand a month and can't get them below $219. You want your box of drawers to be slightly larger (no biggie, material is cheaper than the fabrication), but you want to add the step of punching and deburring peg board before powder coat.

 

[gahrajmahal]

I have used several IKEA kitchen drawers in my shop. This version is $42 each for 24 x 24. They are very sturdy and carry a heavy load. A sturdy cabinet can be made from a sheet of 3/4 plywood

 

[m151]

I never liked the design because of the open back. Needs to be mouse proof for country living. A mouse will go wherever it wants to! I'm waiting for one to get on the space station!

 

[BTL-A4]

I have used several IKEA kitchen drawers in my shop. This version is $42 each for 24 x 24. They are very sturdy and carry a heavy load. A sturdy cabinet can be made from a sheet of 3/4 plywood

There are 7 drawers on my design. You'd have to spend $294 just for the drawers. I think a piece of plywood is about $50, particle board about $22. Plus the cost of screws and glue. The you'd have to make everything. A fun project, I'm sure, but more money than the design I'm proposing (provided I can get it made for that price).

 

[BTL-A4]

I was pointing out that harbor freight, even on a relatively low volume item, is probably selling a thousand a month and can't get them below $219. You want your box of drawers to be slightly larger (no biggie, material is cheaper than the fabrication), but you want to add the step of punching and deburring peg board before powder coat.

I'm thinking these would retail for around $300. I also think whatever company makes these could use existing drawers/tooling if they are a toolbox maker. If they are just a sheet metal place, they would have to make tooling, but I'm looking at making these in large enough quantities to make it worthwhile.
I could eliminate the pegboard if it's too costly. No one has stated that they hate it.

 

[My Old Tools]

I had that exact Sears unit. It wasn't great and it did not have ball bearing drawers.

 

[BTL-A4]

I had that exact Sears unit. It wasn't great and it did not have ball bearing drawers.

What, specifically, didn't you like about it, other than the non ball-bearing sliders?
Was there anything you liked?

 

[davek125]

Like Petej80, I am looking for something like this too. I'm in New Zealand and we also get absolutely shafted on tool prices here. I think our NZ dollar and petej80's dollaredoos are almost the same when converted to USD. I would be gobsmacked if I ever saw anyone buy one of those Milwaukee benches for the prices they ask here. I would be surprised if they have even sold any.

I think if you make the bench a standard 900mm (35") high then you can't really add the option for casters or it would end up too high. I think it's better for rigidity and stability to keep it off wheels.

In regards to the top, it needs to overhang to be useful. A bench that you can't clamp on to or bolt through really limits what you can do on it.

Modular if definitely the way to go, peg board could go on either end, cupboard on leather side. The drawers as per your drawing look perfect to me.

It's a good idea and I hope you can get it made for the price you want. If I wanted to get just one prototype made to your specs here it would easily cost over $600 for materials and manufacture, maybe even $1000 if it needed welding/fabrication. So you'd really need to be talking big scale to get the costs down to your required point. I am aware that most things made in my workshop can be bought in a big box store for less than it costs us to make them. But that's all chinese made low quality stuff.

I'm looking forward to seeing the idea progress.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

[seber]

You are in my area of expertise. So let me make a comment on cost. Set up to do a production of any number of these is going to cost at least $5000. Then if you only want a few, you are going to pay extra for labor in assembly and welding rather than the $100,000 for an automated assembly setup. Obviously it would be cheaper in China, but it still is not going to be anywhere near your target.
If you only want one for yourself, buy one with full drawers, remove the drawers on one side and make a door, add a top and remove the casters.

 

[anavrinIV]

You are in my area of expertise. So let me make a comment on cost. Set up to do a production of any number of these is going to cost at least $5000. Then if you only want a few, you are going to pay extra for labor in assembly and welding rather than the $100,000 for an automated assembly setup. Obviously it would be cheaper in China, but it still is not going to be anywhere near your target.
If you only want one for yourself, buy one with full drawers, remove the drawers on one side and make a door, add a top and remove the casters.

As someone who works in manufacturing in the US I may have rolled my eyes a little at the $300 made in the USA price point. If a HF 44" box retails at $500 in their volumes no way is a work bench like this coming in at that price, let alone nearly half cheaper.

The idea itself is not bad but the end goal is wholly unrealistic.

 

[Sweetcorn]

I'm thinking these would retail for around $300. I also think whatever company makes these could use existing drawers/tooling if they are a toolbox maker. If they are just a sheet metal place, they would have to make tooling, but I'm looking at making these in large enough quantities to make it worthwhile.
I could eliminate the pegboard if it's too costly. No one has stated that they hate it.

If you want to retail these for $300ish, you'll need to have $150ish in the build price of them.

I deal with this stuff everyday, professionally, and I don't see you working this out as a USA made box for that money. I honestly don't see it being done using Asian sourcing for your price points, either.

As far as using an existing tool box maker's drawers, that isn't going to happen. Not without paying a stiff commission to their company for licensing.

I'm sure your heart is in the right place and this is a good exercise for you to go through, but the numbers won't work out in your favor. There are a surprising amount of costs that start accumulating once you scale something up. Business insurance, taxes, accounting, etc., all find ways to eat the soul out of your profit margins. Painting those boxes won't come cheap, either. And if you want to do it yourself, prepare to spend more money than you can imagine just to deal with the EPA.

I hope you follow this thread up with the numbers you receive if you start pursuing quotes. Not to bust your chops, but so others can see how much money it takes to kick something off that you aren't building yourself, in a real manufacturing facility.

As others have mentioned, look at the pricing from low-cost retailers with established markets buying in volumes that are really unthinkable for a startup.

 

[My Old Tools]

What, specifically, didn't you like about it, other than the non ball-bearing sliders?
Was there anything you liked?

The drawers were useful unless heavily loaded, and they were always overloaded. The door side was useless. If you put shelves in there, stuff in the back was hidden. Without shelves it was just a wasted cubby hole.