Workshop mud sill ... PT, double, plastic, ???

[xtal_01]

Hello everyone!

I am just about to start building a new workshop ... well as soon as the weather breaks ... 4 last night ... 15 now but feels like -1 with the wind chill (Jericho, VT).

I have a 3500 sq ft pad of concrete poured.

I know now it would have been better to go with a frost wall and pad but was talked into a mono pour by three contractors.

The pad is 16" deep on the edges and has a ton of re-bar in it. It has 2" of foam under it and poly.

Still it has several cracks ... thus I can't simply put a row of block around the outside (tried this once before on a pad with cracks .... cracked the blocks or joints right where the cracks were). The pad has not shifted where the cracks are (still level on both sides ... probably because of the amount of re-bar) but I am sure it is moving a bit.

So, I have a few options.

I was going to just put down a piece of PT (pressure treat) and then build the wall and stand it up .. thus a single piece of pressure treat as a mud sill.

Then the farmer came over from next door. He said he would put the PT down and then also use a piece of PT for the bottom of the wall ... thus a double PT sill.

The I read a post where the guy went nuts and put down two pieces of PT as a mud sill! He then stood the wall on top of that saying he didn't want to have to use galvanized nails when building he wall.

Just to add to the mix ... I got in a piece of Bear Board ... plastic wood. You can get it in a 2 x 6 .... should I be thinking about using it as the mud sill? not cheap at $3.75 per ft but ???? I am a bit worried as it is plastic ... not sure if it will deform over the years ... but the sample I have is solid as a rock ... I have always been told plastic lasts forever ... and it will never see sun.

Tried to to put in link ... didn't let me ... bearboardlumber (dot) com

Just totally confused .... the more I think about it the more confused I get. Trying to make less mistakes on the shop than I did on the house.

Thanks ....

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

No reason to use a double bottom plate. Use one single PT 2x and you'll be fine.

 

[Hank11]

How about a course or two of concrete block? If it does crack in the joint you can fix it later as needed. But, I think a good block layer can do it right and avoid the cracking problem.

With the snow and moisture you have in Vermont, a concrete wall will last much longer than wood. And it will elevate your siding and keep it dry as well. If you were in a dry climate I could see going with a double PT plate and calling it good.

 

[xtal_01]

This has been an ongoing arguement with myself.

My first option was to put down block ... I even did this once before to "save" a garage. Owner had put dirt against the side and rotted the sill. I lifted the garage ...put down two rows of block ... repaired the sill and lowered it (not bad by myself).

Problem is the block cracked in a few places ... right where the cracks in the slab were (I had told myself the slab would not move as it had been there over 30 years.

I was smart enough to put re-bar on the lower and middle course. That is what is holding it together I am sure.

Plus if I put a row of blocks, I would need to put insulation (probably foam) on the outside and then sparge it ... I did this for the entire outside of the pad (dug a ditch by had 2 ft out ... glued on foam ... put hot galvanized expanded metal over it held on by tapcons .. then a layer of surface bond cement ... then drainage pipe .... loooooots of work.

I would do this if there was no other choice but since I plan on trying to build the shop myself this summer, I don't think I could spend that much time on just the sill and get it done by fall.

Thanks ....

 

[Hank11]

Cracked the block or the mortar joints? Cracked blocks would bother me, cracked joints, I'd caulk and not worry.

Generally, cracks in a slab that do not include and elevation change are not a problem. (each edge at same level - flush). Cracks where one side is higher than the other might be indication of a problem.

Another thing is a crew that lays block every day will have that knocked out before you turn around from writing the check.

 

[kaymccampbell]

First off, two things about concrete. No one's gonna steal it, and it'll crack. There's no if or maybe, it'll crack. Looks like you got that over with early. Put a row of block, or a cast wall, or just the PT. It'll be fine. If you do the PT, you're going to need an isolation layer from the concrete. No matter how you do it, you're going to want that separation. Plastic wood works great for that. I like Azek or Kleer.

 

[xtal_01]

My aw-ha moment!

I have called two distributors and put up three posts on other forums.

No one could say if I could use the plastic wood for a sill.

Everyone said "it should work"

So ... you have used it?

Any issues? I was just a bit worried with that much weight, it might deform and mushroom out over time (just hit a piece with a hammer ... not likely as far as I can tell).

I did use Kleer for all the trim on my house.

The only reason I was looking at Bear Board (or others like it) is because it comes in black.

I am even thinking of using it as a board around the bottom of the shop (to protect against things like the weed eater) ... and for things like the garage door casing (use a 2 x 8 all around the opening).

The budget started tight but with the rising price of lumber just seems to be getting squeezed tighter and tighter. I am trying to job out only the largest of items.

I have the use of a telehandler so I think I can get the walls up (they are tall .... 16 ft ceilings.

Second floor (attic in the center) I think I can do.

Roof trusses I will job out to professionals.

Metal roof I will take a shot at (standing seam ... never done this before but materials $10K ... two quotes from roofers $40K)

Vinyl siding ... I'm pretty sure I can handle this.

Interior ...insulation ... wall covering (plywood or osb), wiring ... I will do all that.

I might (ok .. will ) hire a few guys to help when I need them. Some jobs are just easier with two people.

Mike

This is an early conceptual drawing I did .... basic shape is the same but things like the faux stone on the bottom are out of the budget.

 

[mike93lx]

Pvc boards are for trim, not structural, plus they are super expensive.

Just use a single PT layer

 

[kaymccampbell]

My aw-ha moment!

I have called two distributors and put up three posts on other forums.

No one could say if I could use the plastic wood for a sill.

Everyone said "it should work"

So ... you have used it?

Any issues? I was just a bit worried with that much weight, it might deform and mushroom out over time (just hit a piece with a hammer ... not likely as far as I can tell).

I did use Kleer for all the trim on my house.

The only reason I was looking at Bear Board (or others like it) is because it comes in black.

I am even thinking of using it as a board around the bottom of the shop (to protect against things like the weed eater) ... and for things like the garage door casing (use a 2 x 8 all around the opening).

The budget started tight but with the rising price of lumber just seems to be getting squeezed tighter and tighter. I am trying to job out only the largest of items.

I have the use of a telehandler so I think I can get the walls up (they are tall .... 16 ft ceilings.

Second floor (attic in the center) I think I can do.

Roof trusses I will job out to professionals.

Metal roof I will take a shot at (standing seam ... never done this before but materials $10K ... two quotes from roofers $40K)

Vinyl siding ... I'm pretty sure I can handle this.

Interior ...insulation ... wall covering (plywood or osb), wiring ... I will do all that.

I might (ok .. will ) hire a few guys to help when I need them. Some jobs are just easier with two people.

Mike

This is an early conceptual drawing I did .... basic shape is the same but things like the faux stone on the bottom are out of the budget.

The plastic wood is just to make an isolation layer. There's rolled thick plastic you can use, too. You still need the PT sill on top of it.
Yes, it works. No problems. I have 2 stories sitting on it. But, remember, just isolation, not structural. Bolts go through PT, through plastic, into concrete.

If I can do standing seam roofing, you can too. It's a lot of effort. Especially crimping the seams. Get the heavier steel. Get galvalume based stock. Get urethane seam seals. Talk to your local steel roofing manufacturer. Most of them have a storefront. After the sheathing is on, measure your roof precisely. Give those measurements to them. They'll work up a cut sheet, and provide the correct quantities of materials. Buy a couple extra of every component. You're going to screw at least one up in the first go. Let them deliver it. Those panels are huge. Make a ramp from the ground to the roof, so you don't have to tip overlong panels onto the roof and then kink them. Ice and water shield along the bottom edge. Use the required plastic "tar paper" over 100% of roof. It'll turn out fine.

Vinyl siding. Again, if I can do it, you can, too.

Get help for the whole deal. Your friends will hate you less if you feed them.

 

[xtal_01]

Thanks for the encouragement!

We started building a house 7 years ago .... it is "almost" done. In fairness, I thought it would take two ...we lived in an RV (froze when temps hit -30) for three years while building then moved into the house mostly done.

My wife was paralyzed from the shoulders down in a diving accident when she was 12. We needed a custom house ... just could not afford it.

I when as far as to even build and elevator ... used the mast from an old forklift ... $40K to buy ... $2K to build.

I work out of the house and it is killing me not to have a shop.

Thanks ... Mike

Picture of elevator during testing ... now has a real platform, railings and a gate.

My wife needs care every 4 hours. In the year before we got married (I was living in SC .. originally from Canada ... she was in VT) I got this old RV .. gutted it .. cut the new door ... designed and built a wheelchair lift ... gutted the interior and installed hospital beds. Got it done and drove it up the week before the wedding.