Wormstyle vs Hypoid Saw

[CobraChevelle]

I was almost set buying a Bosch CSW41 or the SKIL SHD77 but ran accross the Makita 5377MG Hypoid Saw.

I see many good reviews for all of them. Any idea what is the better buy?

 

[txvwnut]

I'm a worm drive guy and will always be, with the exception of my cordless but it doesn't get used for big jobs anyway. That Makita is basically a worm drive saw if you look at the parts breakdown. That Skill would be a great saw, the 77 line has been around for years.

 

[redmondjp]

Just an FYI, the Skil is now made in China - check Ebay or CL for an older, American-made one if you have your heart set on one. I have one (the non-magnesium one) and it's an awesome saw, but fracking heavy. Since I don't use it often, that's not an issue for me but it I was a daily user I'd probably find a lighter saw to use.

I've also read a lot of positive reviews on the Makita so I wouldn't hesitate to get that one either.

 

[CobraChevelle]

I think there all made in china now, I know Bosch owns the Skil name and heard some of the bosch are the same as skil but with different plastics.

I wont use this a lot, Doing basement remodel so after that make a couple times a year. I do like that Makita though but like the history or the Skil even though its made in china now

 

[Wamsutta]

If made in China wasn't bad enough, they had to go and change the shape of the handle. The old saying, "Leave well enough alone" rings very loudly when I think about what they've done to the saw. If I didn't already have a U.S. made Skil 77 saw, I'd go to ereplacementparts.com and order all the parts necessary to make a saw.

 

[1990 Grand Wag]

I was almost set buying a Bosch CSW41 or the SKIL SHD77 but ran accross the Makita 5377MG Hypoid Saw.

I see many good reviews for all of them. Any idea what is the better buy?

Sidewinder unless you're cutting "wet" lumber or need the extra torque. Worm drive will wear you out lifting it all day, heavy!!!

 

[slyonedoofy]

Sidewinder unless you're cutting "wet" lumber or need the extra torque. Worm drive will wear you out lifting it all day, heavy!!!

I used one every day 20 years ago with no problems and I was 130 pounds. You can either work the saw or let it work for you.

It's a saw I have owned for 25 years and I expect it will outlive me.

I replaced the handle on it because it took a dive and cracked the handle and replaced the trigger since I was already doing the handle.

 

[rice rocket]

If you have the patience...


<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DIKPUL6b4N8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[123Eric]

I absolutely DO NOT recommend Makita Haypoid gear. The main reason is that in the event of a broken pinion or worn gear you MUST replace the complete armature ($129.47) plus gear($80.51). I got same problem with my DeWalt 378G. Its pretty much alike in design with the Makita, running the same hypoid gears and design. I inadvertently used (and abused) my saw with no oil and now the repair costs is $210.(have to replace armature because pinion is built on it plus the gear, which, I will NO do it. I´ll Buy a worm design now.) In the other hand if you get the worm design circular saw (Bosch, Skil, Rigid, etc) you wont have to replace the complete armature..the worm(it is NOT built on it) or just replace the gear because is made of brass. The repair cost is cheap if you get the worm design. Do not buy hypoid design unless the pinion is not built on the armature. Please, do check the following link to see the map of the DW378G and you´ll see Makita and DW378G pretty much are the same machine. Dewalt discontinued the hypoid design by the way. http://www.ereplacementparts.com/dewalt-dw378g-type-framing-saw-parts-c-1009_2789_2823.html

 

[123Eric]

Hi every one.

 

[IndyGarage]

I absolutely DO NOT recommend Makita Haypoid gear. The main reason is that in the event of a broken pinion or worn gear you MUST replace the complete armature ($129.47) plus gear($80.51). I got same problem with my DeWalt 378G. Its pretty much alike in design with the Makita, running the same hypoid gears and design. I inadvertently used (and abused) my saw with no oil and now the repair costs is $210.(have to replace armature because pinion is built on it plus the gear, which, I will NO do it. I´ll Buy a worm design now.) l[/url]

So - don't buy the Makita, because you abused and ran a DeWault saw with a similar design and it broke, and it's expensive to fix?

That's like saying you shouldn't 't buy a Chevy, because I ran my Chrysler without oil, and blew up the engine.

 

[IndyGarage]

BTW - in the video above, AVE makes a mistake about the difference between bevel gears vs worm gears.

He says the torque is better on the worm vs the bevel because the worm works the outside of the gear. This is only true to the extent the torque is transmitted at the contact point of each one - a bevel gear can be designed to transmit the same torque, but it will require a slightly larger ring gear.

The biggest difference, and the reason cars use bevels, is noise. A bevel gear is much quieter than a straight worm gear.

The reason you use a hypoid gear is because you want to make a more compact design. By moving the pinion out of line with the center of the ring gear you have more freedom to design the whole assembly more compactly. Which is why Makita uses hypoid on the saw. If you notice, it's a slightly more compact saw than a Skill 77.

The downside is Hypoid gears are very expensive and difficult to cut correctly.

 

[speed bump]

Sidewinder unless you're cutting "wet" lumber or need the extra torque. Worm drive will wear you out lifting it all day, heavy!!!

Depends on what you are doing. For framing and rough work the weight isnt noticeable because it is inline and whenever possible you cut down so the weight does the work. A sidewinder isn't as nicely balanced and you have to run the saw more versus letting the weight of the saw do your cuts for you. I will admit the sidewinder is nicer for flat sheet sheet goods though.

Back to the original question, unless you are doing construction you will probably never wear out a hypoid or worm drive saw. Buy the one with the best ergonomics for you. If you plan on running it like a rented mule buy the mag 77 because parts are cheap and readily available if you ever successfully break it.

 

[LXCam]

I ran a Makita for years and my only complaint was the cord completely deteriorated.......something I could certainly live with. But given a choice between a makita or a skill, give me the skill any day of the week. Matter of fact I just bought a new mag last month and until reading this thread had no idea they moved the manufacturing over sea's. I sure can't tell any difference, firing her off was like wielding an old friend.

I absolutely DO NOT recommend Makita Haypoid gear. The main reason is that in the event of a broken pinion or worn gear you MUST replace the complete armature ($129.47) plus gear($80.51). I got same problem with my DeWalt 378G. Its pretty much alike in design with the Makita, running the same hypoid gears and design. I inadvertently used (and abused) my saw with no oil and now the repair costs is $210.(have to replace armature because pinion is built on it plus the gear, which, I will NO do it. I´ll Buy a worm design now.) In the other hand if you get the worm design circular saw (Bosch, Skil, Rigid, etc) you wont have to replace the complete armature..the worm(it is NOT built on it) or just replace the gear because is made of brass. The repair cost is cheap if you get the worm design. Do not buy hypoid design unless the pinion is not built on the armature. Please, do check the following link to see the map of the DW378G and you´ll see Makita and DW378G pretty much are the same machine. Dewalt discontinued the hypoid design by the way. http://www.ereplacementparts.com/dewalt-dw378g-type-framing-saw-parts-c-1009_2789_2823.html

 

[TommyK]

I am a worm drive guy. When I used to pound nails for a living I had a Skil 77 and my buddy had a Makita hypoid. I didn't like the Makita because when you hit the trigger the torque of the saw would actually rock the base plate off the work. If you weren't careful you could easily end up missing your cut line.

The best worm drive I ever used was a B&D 6-1/2" but they haven't made it in many years.

 

[Zeke]

I am a worm drive guy. When I used to pound nails for a living I had a Skil 77 and my buddy had a Makita hypoid. I didn't like the Makita because when you hit the trigger the torque of the saw would actually rock the base plate off the work. If you weren't careful you could easily end up missing your cut line.

The best worm drive I ever used was a B&D 6-1/2" but they haven't made it in many years.

My mag 77 does the same thing. I also have a nearly new looking standard 77 that is well over 20 years old. There isn't a lot of practical difference. I think the mag is like one pound lighter but I didn't look it up.

 

[1990 Grand Wag]

Depends on what you are doing. For framing and rough work the weight isnt noticeable because it is inline and whenever possible you cut down so the weight does the work. A sidewinder isn't as nicely balanced and you have to run the saw more versus letting the weight of the saw do your cuts for you. I will admit the sidewinder is nicer for flat sheet sheet goods though.

Back to the original question, unless you are doing construction you will probably never wear out a hypoid or worm drive saw. Buy the one with the best ergonomics for you. If you plan on running it like a rented mule buy the mag 77 because parts are cheap and readily available if you ever successfully break it.

You're talking to a person whose father owned a construction company and we had to use a saw day in and day out, and trust me, that worm drive saw gets heavy REAL quick, plus we had B&D Super Sawcats that did everything we asked of them, and then some! We turned that worm drive into a dedicated saw to cut concrete and never looked back. Worm drive saws are more of a "western" US thing. Again, not a fan of worm drive saws at all, and I base that decision on actual use.

 

[Zeke]

It's true that worms are a western states thing. I've worked in other parts of the country and had the only WD on the jobsite.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Ive got an older Craftsman branded Skil HD77. It is truly a beast that I grab for whenever Im cutting anything larger than 2x lumber or hardwood. Infinitely rebuildable and parts are readily available.

 

[PugetDude]

No other way around! Sidewinders **** balls. The blade is on the wrong side on 90% of them The worm drives are just like driving a Cadilac.

I had a Makita hypoid drive in the early 1990s. Once you defeat the electric brake, they're awesome saws but the old Skil worm drives are hard to beat. I still have 5 of them in my tool shack.

I was a worm drive guy for 30 years; always shied away from "assbackward" sidewinders until I picked up a LEFThanded Porter Cable Saw Boss. The blade is on the left hand side like a worm drive, but it's about half the weight. I gave away my B&D Worm Drive a week later and haven't picked up my Skill 77 in years...
Agree with Zeke, worm drives seem to be more common in the western US; you see a lot more carpenters leaning over their sidewinders trying to see what they are cutting in the East. (or cutting by watching the guide, not the blade like you do on a worm drive.- I got to where I could split a pencil line every time with mine- great for taking or leaving the line to fine-tune a cut. Try that on a sidewinder where you can't really see the blade and have to rely on a guide 4" in front of the actual cut. ..)

 

[Wamsutta]

I am a worm drive guy. When I used to pound nails for a living I had a Skil 77 and my buddy had a Makita hypoid. I didn't like the Makita because when you hit the trigger the torque of the saw would actually rock the base plate off the work. If you weren't careful you could easily end up missing your cut line.

The best worm drive I ever used was a B&D 6-1/2" but they haven't made it in many years.

The Makita Hypoid was supposed to have a soft start feature that would eliminate the startup torque. Maybe your buddy had an older model. Irregardless, I still prefer the Skil 77 even with its trigger torque; I just wish they hadn't changed the handle design.

 

[ttpete]

BTW - in the video above, AVE makes a mistake about the difference between bevel gears vs worm gears.

He says the torque is better on the worm vs the bevel because the worm works the outside of the gear. This is only true to the extent the torque is transmitted at the contact point of each one - a bevel gear can be designed to transmit the same torque, but it will require a slightly larger ring gear.

The biggest difference, and the reason cars use bevels, is noise. A bevel gear is much quieter than a straight worm gear.

The reason you use a hypoid gear is because you want to make a more compact design. By moving the pinion out of line with the center of the ring gear you have more freedom to design the whole assembly more compactly. Which is why Makita uses hypoid on the saw. If you notice, it's a slightly more compact saw than a Skill 77.

The downside is Hypoid gears are very expensive and difficult to cut correctly.

A spiral bevel gear set uses the same center line for both the ring and pinion.

A hypoid gearset does not. In an automotive application, it lowers the pinion and driveshaft below the axle center and makes it possible to lower the vehicle and keep the same driveline angle. However, the hypoid design introduces the problem of a sliding motion between the gear teeth and requires the use of an extreme pressure lubricant.

He had the definition wrong in that he said that both ring and pinion in a hypoid gearset have the same center line.

 

[PugetDude]

Just noticed the OP has been banned- so now we're just preaching to the choir...

 

[1990 Grand Wag]

Dammit, I'm getting old and forgot to add this to my earlier statements. The ONLY worm drive saw that we were absolutely crazy about was the old Rockwell/Porter Cable 314 trim saws...................but it was a specialized piece of equipment, and you literally had to lock that saw up or crooks would steal it quickly!

 

[LXCam]

Just noticed the OP has been banned- so now we're just preaching to the choir...

That's cause this thread is 2 yrs old. The new guy 123eric bumped it up.


Dang newbs and their searches. The other day someone bumped up a super obscure thread from 09. I always wonder what it is they're looking for.