Would/do you trust a HF torque wrench?

[porphyre]

I turned in a one year old H.F 3/8 to my Matco guy for calibration. It belonged to a non mechanic but do it yourselfer friend of mine. He was building an engine for his dune buggy and i convinced him to at least calibrate his wrench. Turned out the wrench was still within specification. He got a new calibration sticker anyways of course. I would trust one no problem so long as it was stored properly and had proof of calibration.

You know, this is the second time I've seen that phrase in this thread. I have no experience in this arena, so I wonder, do different brands have different specifications?

Almost seems silly to spend $50 to calibrate a $15 wrench... but if it will perform the same as the $150 wrench, it seems like you come out ahead...

 

[Drisco Z71]

You know, this is the second time I've seen that phrase in this thread. I have no experience in this arena, so I wonder, do different brands have different specifications?

Almost seems silly to spend $50 to calibrate a $15 wrench... but if it will perform the same as the $150 wrench, it seems like you come out ahead...

The packaging that came with it said +-4% accuracy, I have no idea what other brands claim though.

 

[GoBlue]

Specifications of accuracy depend on who calibrates them and to what level they calibrate to. Im not talking about initial calibration at the factory, but when they are re calibrated by separate company's. His along with all of mine (Snap on) that have been calibrated in the past have been done to +/- 3%. I think that is pretty much standard. I have had my 1/2 Snappy and my 3/8 Snappy done every year for a long time and they are always done to 3%. Price of calibration also depends on what if any parts need to be replaced. According to my Matco guy those Taiwan H.F wrenches are the same as Performance tool and a couple of others. He said they are pretty common and people turn them in all the time. Many jobs (especially in assembly) require this to be done every year. He said he has never seen an issue where one could not be calibrated or repaired if broken. I think they are pretty decent.

 

[tbobbo]

I would use one for suspention and wheel torque applications. I would not if I was a engine builder. At the tire shop I work at we use the snap on dial type. They only last about 6 months. We only use them so customers think its the best of the best. Also snap on has a good program for refurbishing them. Truth is the cheap ones usually hold up as well, but customers get nervous when they see a cheap torque wrench. Yes we have some customers in the shop (we have nothing to hide) they dont get kicked out if they bring food!

 

[ajchien]

What do you guys think about checking a click style against a beam style?

For example, you set the clicker at 40 ft lbs, and stick it in a vise. Put a 8 or 12 point socket on a beam style, and pull. See where the beam is at when the clicker does its click. Hopefully the beam reads 40 when the clicker clicks.

Is that a plausible method of cross checking your accuracy?

 

[GoBlue]

If you have access to a tool truck, all of the ones i have been on had a device to check the torque wrenches quickly and easily.

 

[HDTRUCKGUY]

Snap On Tech Angles Here they are awesome I have 3/8, 1/3 and 3/4 but I work on tractor trailers for a living those 3 will set you back about $2200

 

[GRX]

Trust a $17 clicker? All I have to say is that I am glad I don't have to. These suit me just fine.

 

[e30bradley]

NO WAY. I don't trust any clickers really.. Maybe a snap on, but I prefer the digital ones by a few light years.

 

[posaune]

I have a 3/8" drive beam torque wrench. I put a 3/8" drive 3/8" 8 pt socket on it, and put my PI 10-50 ft-lbs torque wrench in. Seems to check within 1 ft-lb or so.

Did the same with a 3/8" drive 1/2" 8 pt socket w/ my "Ampro" 1/2" 10-150 ft-lbs clicker (really the exact same as the HF one, looking at in in store). At 30 ft-lbs, which is 20% of scale, it was nuts on. Same with 50 ft-lbs. Also very consistent. Keep in mind this torque wrench is roughly 5 years old, has been stored in a garage, and almost always zeroed out, but not always. I will probably pick up the 3/8" Harbor Freight clicker and test it the same way.

I'd trust 'em. But a cheap 3/8 beam torque wrench, $25 from Sears, and two 8 pt sockets in 3/8" drive, the 3/8" and 1/2", and you can check them yourself and save a bundle of money vs. buying a real expensive one. If you were **** you could also buy a 1/2" beam and go up to 150 ft-lbs or so, but IMO I don't really care about super close accuracy that far up the scale.

Youtube video of the PI set at 15 ft-lbs against the Craftsman 3/8" beam:

What do you guys think about checking a click style against a beam style?

For example, you set the clicker at 40 ft lbs, and stick it in a vise. Put a 8 or 12 point socket on a beam style, and pull. See where the beam is at when the clicker does its click. Hopefully the beam reads 40 when the clicker clicks.

Is that a plausible method of cross checking your accuracy?

That is what I did when i bought my HF 1/2" drive torque wrench. I tried it with a known (thought) good SK 3/8" drive one first. The HF checked out exactly as the SK and I don't see why that isn't a decent test, but then I am not doing anything *really* critical.

Fwiw though, I regularly use one or the other (checked the same way) on cam bearings and none of my engines have exploded yet (two with over 300k and one with 287k).

Either way, it has to be a better check of accuracy than nothing, which is what most diy-ers probably do.

 

[stopdroplol]

What do you guys think about checking a click style against a beam style?

For example, you set the clicker at 40 ft lbs, and stick it in a vise. Put a 8 or 12 point socket on a beam style, and pull. See where the beam is at when the clicker does its click. Hopefully the beam reads 40 when the clicker clicks.

Is that a plausible method of cross checking your accuracy?

That's basically what the professionals do when they check the calibration. The only difference is their torque wrench is more of a torque box.

.

Those things aren't to unreasonably expensive and imo should be required shop equipment for most places. It's important to note that the real trouble (and cost) is in actually calibrating a tool. To do that you need very precise standards which you can only get from the government and you need a clean room to do it all in (no really).

 

[pipsters]

What do you guys think about checking a click style against a beam style?

For example, you set the clicker at 40 ft lbs, and stick it in a vise. Put a 8 or 12 point socket on a beam style, and pull. See where the beam is at when the clicker does its click. Hopefully the beam reads 40 when the clicker clicks.

Is that a plausible method of cross checking your accuracy?

I posted this above...I did the exact same thing, all were *very* close. You don't even need a vise.

Beams are very accurate and don't really ever lose their measuring ability.

Here's how I did it:

 

[mike54]

There's a difference between dynamic and static torque. It takes more to start a fastener moving than to continue moving a fastener once it's moving. These various tests all proposed (and accuracy via comparison pronouncements) do not take this sizeable difference into account. If a fastener was precisely set to 100 foot pounds it would take more than that (quite a bit) to get it moving again. That is why when you pull on a torque wrench you go slow and don't stop moving until it clicks. To check torque or to retorque you back off and start over. You can't just run around the lugs or whatever clicking off after a tightening and think that tells you anything much.

As to the weights, how are you going to do that? Is this a clicker?

In a discussion of static vs. dynamic torque, it is often easiest to start with an understanding of the difference between a static and a dynamic force. To put it simply, a dynamic force involves acceleration, while a static force does not.

The relationship between dynamic force and acceleration is described by Newton's second law; F=ma (force equals mass times acceleration). The force required to stop your car with its substantial mass would be a dynamic force, as the car must be decelerated. The force exerted by the brake caliper in order to stop that car would be a static force, because there is no acceleration of the brake pads involved.

Torque is just a rotational force–or a force through a distance. From the previous discussion, torque is considered static if it has no angular acceleration. The torque exerted by a clock spring would be a static torque, since there is no rotation and, hence, no angular acceleration.

The torque transmitted through a car's drive axle as it cruises down the highway (at a constant speed) would be an example of a rotating static torque. In such a case, even though there is rotation, at a constant speed there is no acceleration. The torque produced by the car's engine will be both static and dynamic, depending on where it is measured. If the torque is measured in the crankshaft, there will be large dynamic torque fluctuations as each cylinder fires and its piston rotates the crankshaft. If the torque is measured in the drive shaft, it will be nearly static since the rotational inertia of the flywheel and transmission will dampen the dynamic torque produced by the engine.

The torque required to crank up the windows in a car (remember those?) would be an example of a static torque, even though there is a rotational acceleration involved, because both the acceleration and rotational inertia of the crank are very small and the resulting dynamic torque (Torque = rotational inertia x rotational acceleration) will be negligible when compared to the frictional forces involved in the window movement. This last example illustrates the fact that for most measurement applications, both static and dynamic torques will be involved to some degree. If dynamic torque is a major component of the overall torque or is the torque of interest, special considerations must be made when determining how best to measure it.

From here.

We're dealing with static torque when we talk about head bolts, suspension components and the like. The reason we go slow when pulling a torque wrench is because it's easier to stop. The reason we back off and start over is because if a nut is over torqued the wrench will click before the fastener starts moving.

It's fine to check your wrench with a known weight and a known distance from the pivot. That's the definition of torque. It may not be up to weights and measures standards for certification but for your garage it's OK. I've found the HB torque wrenches to be accurate enough and repeatable enough for use in my home garage. The don't feel as nice in my hand as a SO does though.

 

[MD11]

..No

 

[oldtools]

That's basically what the professionals do when they check the calibration. The only difference is their torque wrench is more of a torque box.

.

Those things aren't to unreasonably expensive and imo should be required shop equipment for most places. It's important to note that the real trouble (and cost) is in actually calibrating a tool. To do that you need very precise standards which you can only get from the government and you need a clean room to do it all in (no really).

Here is a cheaper alternative to test your torque wrench.

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-torue-adapter-68283.html

 

[ncfh]

We check and calibrate everything inhouse, monthly. Armstrong and Sturtevant Richmont is what we use.

I threw five HF wrenches in the mix, and they've all remained in spec for four months in a three shift production environment.

Good enough for me and medical equipment, and apparently aircraft and automobiles too.

Guess all the naysayers should stay underground and not get sick.

 

[JMcFly]

I barely trust it for wheel bolts.

 

[gw105]

I have a $500 1/2" drive Proto torque wrench that I've owned for 8+ years that I use daily in an industrial environment. It has been sent out for calibration yearly, and has ALWAYS been within spec. At home I have the 1/2" and 3/8" drive HF torque wrenches, and I tested them compared to my Proto and they are both well within the +/- 4% spec stated in the range I was able to test them (My proto's range is 50-250 Ft.Lbs.)

A number of years ago one of my fellow techs had a snap on torque wrench, and long story short, every time that wrench went out for manditory yearly calibration, it was so far out that the company insisted that he stop using it and get a different brand.

After years of swinging wrenches I have a fairly accurate feel for specific torques, and if you are snapping bolts because your torque wrench "hasn't clicked yet", you likely shouldn't be working on any projects that require the use of a torque wrench.

 

[MD11]

I have a $500 1/2" drive Proto torque wrench that I've owned for 8+ years that I use daily in an industrial environment. It has been sent out for calibration yearly, and has ALWAYS been within spec. At home I have the 1/2" and 3/8" drive HF torque wrenches, and I tested them compared to my Proto and they are both well within the +/- 4% spec stated in the range I was able to test them (My proto's range is 50-250 Ft.Lbs.)

A number of years ago one of my fellow techs had a snap on torque wrench, and long story short, every time that wrench went out for manditory yearly calibration, it was so far out that the company insisted that he stop using it and get a different brand.

After years of swinging wrenches I have a fairly accurate feel for specific torques, and if you are snapping bolts because your torque wrench "hasn't clicked yet", you likely shouldn't be working on any projects that require the use of a torque wrench.

so what we can gather here is Proto>HF>SO, right?

 

[Hiball]

I'm fairly certain snap on doesn't make any of there torque wrenches, it's either precision/Cdi depending on model. They do generally use the companies head, not sure if that's done in house or not.

 

[Drisco Z71]

As much as the anti-HF mob wants them to be junk it sounds like the consensus is that they are perfectly fine. The scary part is I've heard more bad stuff about the holy grail that is snap-on than HF in this thread.

 

[Butters]

As much as the anti-HF mob wants them to be junk it sounds like the consensus is that they are perfectly fine. The scary part is I've heard more bad stuff about the holy grail that is snap-on than HF in this thread.

While that does seem to be the case (at least in this thread), I think you also need to consider that your average Snap On TW is probably being used in a shop environment and your average HF probably isn't. So comparing calibrations on a HF TW that's seen a couple dozen uses to a Snap On that has seen a couple thousand uses may not be an apples to apples comparison.

But that's just an assumption on my part.

 

[MD11]

The scary part is I've heard more bad stuff about the holy grail that is snap-on than HF in this thread.

That cause this thread is likely filled with jealous haters who secretly wish they had a SO. But everyone has to prove something (even if it's in their own mind).

Anyone with an IQ over 100 knows that in a free market, you can't continue to sell something to doesn't work at a very high price for long... but oddly SO has been selling expensive, top shelf tools for decades and still continues to do well in spite of all the cheap alternatives.

 

[G-Body]

Had I posted in this thread a couple months ago I would have said the only use for a HF torque wrench was as a disguised club for under your car seat. I gave my uncle so much **** when he said he had bought one and used it to torque the head bolts on my cousins car. He did tell me though that one of the other guys he worked with had one and when they checked it on the snap on truck it was within spec.

Now I`m beginning to think differently. Just over a year ago I picked up a craftsman microtorque inch-lb clicker and loved it, wished I had bought all 3 when they were on sale. So a couple months ago they are on sale and I ordered the 3/8" and 1/2" craftsman ft-lb clickers......I noticed when I got them that instead of a really nice sturdy storage case these new ones had a crummy looking holder they snap into with no cover over the top. Didn`t think too much of it until I used them the first time, only to find out that if you put it in the unlock position and adjust the torque more than a few ft lbs it tends to automatically slip into the lock position as you are trying to adjust it. I also noticed that although it is harder to rotate when it slips into the locked position the "lock" does not actually lock it into that torque value.

Then after reading this thread and the thread about craftsman offshoring to china............I checked. The year older one is USA made and these new ones are POS china junk.

Well I guess maybe my next torque wrench will be from hazardous freight. I really used to like craftsman tools (I`m not swinging wrenches for a living, so they were adequate), but if they are going to be slapping the c-man name on china **** I might as well go buy HF junk. Same made in china lifetime warranty china junk, except that HF is usually cheaper, and apparently in some cases higher quality

 

[Outlawmws]

That cause this thread is likely filled with jealous haters who secretly wish they had a SO. But everyone has to prove something (even if it's in their own mind).

Anyone with an IQ over 100 knows that in a free market, you can't continue to sell something to doesn't work at a very high price for long... but oddly SO has been selling expensive, top shelf tools for decades and still continues to do well in spite of all the cheap alternatives.

You know, I didn't see any of that at all. Certainly no one bashed SO overall. There have been a number of posts, both in this thread and in other in the past few months, about the SO TW not keeping spec and needing to be calibrated. Statements of fact, not knee jerk opinions.

I'd say the HF bashers have been far more viral than any negs on Snap on in this thread, apparently without any hands on knowledge...

I think this thread was an honest attempt for honest, knowledgeable, answers. If you have not had your hands on one, had not had one checked for calibration, then your opinions are based in ignorance.

I've not taken either side, as I have not had my hands on either TW. I have asked the question about the SO TW's not meeting spec, and if that was a one shot deal being repeated (dead horse syndrome), or a common deal. From the different people posting here in this thread, it has happened more than once. Is it a commendation of all SO TW's? Not enough data, particularly since there are thousands of SO TW's being used every day allover the place. I would expect some to wear out of spec.

And bottom line, the question was would you trust HF TW's for accuracy. I've seen nothing that says the HF TW aren't decently made in this particular case.

One thing I have not seen (Or missed) what is the COO of the HF TW?

I'm certain it's imported, but from where. If I needed one and its Chicom, I wouldn't buy it personally, but not everything in HF is Chicom.

 

[MD11]

You know, I didn't see any of that at all. Certainly no one bashed SO overall.

You just have to know how to read between the lines my friend...

 

[gw105]

That cause this thread is likely filled with jealous haters who secretly wish they had a SO. But everyone has to prove something (even if it's in their own mind).

Anyone with an IQ over 100 knows that in a free market, you can't continue to sell something to doesn't work at a very high price for long... but oddly SO has been selling expensive, top shelf tools for decades and still continues to do well in spite of all the cheap alternatives.

Snap-on makes fantastic tools. I have a number of them and they have all been great, although they seem to be more popular with the automotive crowd. In all my years of Industrial wrenching I have seen few techs with SO tools. Proto is much more common with aviation and industrial fields in my experience.

IMHO Snap-on is often able to charge much higher prices than other tool manufacturers not only because of their excellent quality but becuase many feel they will be held in higher regard by others with that name in their hand.

A cheap tool in a competent hand is worth much more than an expensive tool in a less than compentent one.

 

[Outlawmws]

You just have to know how to read between the lines my friend...

Or read things into it that aren't there...

 

[tyndall]

That cause this thread is likely filled with jealous haters who secretly wish they had a SO. But everyone has to prove something (even if it's in their own mind).

Anyone with an IQ over 100 knows that in a free market, you can't continue to sell something to doesn't work at a very high price for long... but oddly SO has been selling expensive, top shelf tools for decades and still continues to do well in spite of all the cheap alternatives.

It's called branding. The same reason Craftsman will continue to sell well even when they switch to 100% chinese tools. I'll admit that the majority of S-o's lineup is near the top for quality. But how many times have we heard of someone paying double for a rebranded pos because it was convenient to buy it off the truck?

Go back and read my post. We have S-o. Bought by office people who wanted the "best". After enough calibration failures we went with Proto. HF was added to reduce wait time.

This thread proves people are more concerned about the reputation of the company and COO than if the tool works. After all, HF is a company that can f-up a hammer, you don't expect them to make a quality torque wrench.

I just fail to understand why you think a tw that costs over 10x as much and needs yearly repairs is superior. Trying to justify a bad purchase maybe?

 

[lwlobo]

Or read things into it that aren't there...

No kidding, unless there is some extremely subtle tongue-in-cheek going on, but I don't think so.

I don't see how any intelligent person could read this thread and suppose the general HF support (often backed by calibration checks and actual data) is biased by widespread snap on jealousy. Unless perhaps their own perspective was affected by pre-existing biases.

 

[tyndall]

One thing I have not seen (Or missed) what is the COO of the HF TW?

I'm certain it's imported, but from where. If I needed one and its Chicom, I wouldn't buy it personally, but not everything in HF is Chicom.

My 1/4" at home was made in Taiwan.

 

[gw105]

It's called branding. The same reason Craftsman will continue to sell well even when they switch to 100% chinese tools.

Hit the nail on the head with that quote!

 

[fm2176]

My Craftsman click-type 1/2" drive torque wrench fell apart (the handle came off) a while back. HF had theirs on sale for $10, so I picked two up for me and my neighbor. Haven't used it yet, but about the only thing I used the Craftsman for was torquing my truck's lug nuts in conjunction with a 120 ft/lb torque stick.

 

[e-tek]

I have 2 Craftsman bar-tpe TW and a Princess Auto Click-type and they are all withn an inch-pound or 2 of each other.

But I've been trying to get more into angle of deflection now anyways....

 

[Danglerb]

Anyone with an IQ over 100 knows that in a free market, you can't continue to sell something to doesn't work at a very high price for long... but oddly SO has been selling expensive, top shelf tools for decades and still continues to do well in spite of all the cheap alternatives.

I take it you have never heard of Microsoft or Windows? Bose? Craftsman floor jacks? It took years for Maytag to ruin its reputation. Marketing beats quality 9 times out of 10.

I will offer one caveat in favor of Snapon, many mechanics get the idea Snapon is indestructible and infallible, so my guess is more than few SO TW get abused and never calibrated.

 

[GRX]

A cheap tool in a competent hand is worth much more than an expensive tool in a less than competent one.

on that! You sir win the award for Quote of the week.

 

[Hiball]

Yes... Another thread that turned into HF versus SO.. And my Tool is Better than yours, and its cheaper/More Expensive to boot. I wonder who the First culprit was who actually brought Snap on into this thread..... Interesting, Yet not suprising.

 

[GoBlue]

After years of swinging wrenches I have a fairly accurate feel for specific torques, and if you are snapping bolts because your torque wrench "hasn't clicked yet", you likely shouldn't be working on any projects that require the use of a torque wrench.

I for one never said H.F torque wrenches were better than Snap on. I have Snap on torque wrenches and love them. All i said is that i would trust a H.F torque wrench assuming its been CALIBRATED . I would not trust any UN-CALIBRATED torque wrench.

 

[Drisco Z71]

If you have not had your hands on one, then your opinions are based in ignorance.

This is going in my sig, if that's ok with you my good sir.

also, COO is Taiwan.

 

[Outlawmws]

This is going in my sig, if that's ok with you my good sir.

also, COO is Taiwan.

S'all right with me.