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Would this dust collector modification work?

Enigma

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I just bought a used 1995 Jet DC-1200 dust collector. Even though it's 27 years old it looks to be in pretty good condition. It is prewired from the factory for 230v and is rated at 2hp. It draws 30 amps at 120v or 15 amps at 230v. It has a 6" input and about a 5" output. I'm ordering a flow tester to see what CFMs it actually flows. I'm assuming it should be 1200cfm because it's in the model number but I dont know. There is some intermittent problem with the switch and the wires in the cord look too thin for that big motor but it is the stock cord. I think I will put a thicker cord on it and replace the switch if needed.

On the motor there is a big steel impeller looks to be about 12". The chips and dust and anything sucked up goes directly into the spinning impeller where it is directed with great force into the steel middle divider piece. In the middle piece there is a corkscrew spiral ramp that directs the heavier dust into the bottom bag. The light dust goes up into the top bag and is contained there, some of it being trapped in the fabric of the bag. The smallest dust particles smaller than 30 microns go right through the bag and into the human beings respiritory system where they do irreversible damage. When the DC is shut off the contained light dust falls onto the top of the ramp spiral thing and falls into the bottom bag. Some dust remains trapped in the bag and over time it restricts performance of the system although the bag is then able to filter much smaller particles. The bag then has to be removed and blown out with compressed air and then washed in a washing machine. Reinstall the bag and the cycle repeats. Clear plastic bags can be installed on the bottom and there are cannister filters that can be installed on top which filter down to 2 microns from what I understand. Some of them have a filter scraper built in.

So I was thinking. What if I take the middle piece with the spiral, ramp corkscrew thing, and attach it to a removable 55 gallon drum. Then put a cover on the top of it and attach the motor to it so that it draws the dust into the spiral and separates it into the drum. I wonder what percentage of the dust would collect in the drum? Any remaining light dust would be ejected from the motor into the outdoors through a vent in the wall. No filter bag so no backpressure to interfere with max flow. I have no chimneys or conditioned air in the shop.

I saw a guy on youtube make this out of a home depot bucket with a vacuum cleaner attached to the top of the bucket and the input coming in from the side on an angle. He weighed the sawdust before and after sucking it up and said that 99.6% of the sawdust ended up in the bottom of the bucket.

This would be a low cost dust collector system as I paid $150 for the unit. Its 27 years old but I thought I would take a chance considering the price of new ones.

Should I go for it? My only question is would that middle piece create enough of a cyclone effect to separate 90% or more of the dust so that the ejected dust is so minimal it wont cause a mess outside. I also like the idea of the impeller not being exposed to hard objects accidently sucked up into the system. It would also take up much less space.

I have all my stationary tools on one wall and there would be a run of about 20 feet of 6" pvc. There will be five blast gates and a flexible hose coming off each.

Would this work how I imagine it?

Alternately I could just remove the top bag, replace the bottom bag with a clear plastic bag, park it outside the shop, hope nothing hard gets sucked into the impeller. From there just let the chips fall where they may. Literally.
 

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Pen & Wrench

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I have a Grizzley 2 hp dust collector, probably very similar to your dust collector. I bought a dust & chip separator, that I just plumb in just before the blower. The separator basically dumps almost all of the dust and chips into the canister, leaving only the finer dust going into your actual dust collector. As you can see it is clear plastic, probably not going to last forever but probably will last a long time. Like you, my bags on the dust collector do not filter small enough particles out of the air. To go a step further, you and I both need to buy a set of bags, or a bag and a filter that will filter down to a much smaller micron size, for our own health. I'll see about taking a picture of my setup and send it later.
 

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Renegade1LI

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If you’re in it for the long haul invest in a cyclone, they just work.
 

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PoorUB

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Keep in mind if you add some sort of collection before the Jet dust collector fan it will want to **** anything you put there flat. Use a plastic trash can? It will collapse it!

How much woodworking do you do? I have a cheap Harbor Freight and let the dust collect in the lower bag and dump it once in a while. Works fine as far as I am concerned.

Also, I don't recommend washing the dust bags. I have never heard of doing that. The "cake" of dust on the inside of the bag adds a bit if filtering. I pull the lower bag, dump it out and put it back on. I don't even shake it out. I have been doing it that way for 30 years.
 
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Enigma

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that was my 1st thought. Just use the motor from the system I just bought, put it on a DDSXL, put the drum underneath it and send the exhaust outdoors. Since the cylone takes almost everything, very little dust will be exhausted outdoors.

But then I saw that middle part has a spiral, cyclone type ramp and I thought, well it basically is a cyclone just use that as my cyclone. Thats what Im wondering if that would work just as well because I have seeen guys on youtube make cyclone from home depot buckets with 99% separation so surely this would work. Just seeing if anyone can confirm.
 

Co-Dan

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I have a similar set up to what you are proposing. I have a metal trash can with this cyclone separator lid (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0035YD23K/?tag=atomicindus08-20). The hose then goes to the inlet on the dust collector, with the output plumbed outside. I would say this collects about 95% of the dust and the fine dust is sent outside. And like you said, it eliminates the strain on the system when the filter starts to get clogged.
 

alinc100

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Enigma

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well this afternoon I fixed the switch. It was all caked with sawdust, the black wire was not connected it was just leaning against the switch terminal which explains the intermittent operation and why wiggling the cord made it come on. Then the contacts on the switch were all corroded / burned?? not sure what.. so now it works perfect. and no. i dont see the possibibility of running it without the bag on top and letting the fines float away even if the DC is outside and 20 feet from the shop. If just fills the sky with a cloud of fine dust and I wasnt even adding any new dust just what was in the empty DC so .. gonna have to try either a commercial cyclone or trying my original plan. Only know if I try I guess. I ordered a cfm meter should be here Thursday smh. Then we can see what effect different setups have on actual CFM at the tool.
 

Steve from Socal

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The plastic lower bag and pleated filter upper is a common method to get better filtration at the expense of flow. Honestly the only way to keep the dust out of where you are is to have the collector outside your work space.

Steve
 
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Enigma

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I agree. thats why Im going to pipe the exhaust outside through a vent in the wall.
 

Pen & Wrench

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Here's a couple pictures of my setup hooked to my suitcase planer. My video was too large. It works, but once I get my new shop built, I plan to put in an Oneida cyclone or a Bill Pentz designed one. The one I have seems to work pretty well, you just dump the metal can when it gets full and the bags don't get much dust in them and I rarely have to empty them at all. Pardon my messy shop.
 

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PoorUB

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gonna have to try either a commercial cyclone or trying my original plan. Only know if I try I guess. I ordered a cfm meter should be here Thursday smh. Then we can see what effect different setups have on actual CFM at the tool.
If you are adventurous, there is a ton of information on the internet about building cyclone collectors.
 
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Enigma

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Here's a couple pictures of my setup hooked to my suitcase planer. My video was too large. It works, but once I get my new shop built, I plan to put in an Oneida cyclone or a Bill Pentz designed one. The one I have seems to work pretty well, you just dump the metal can when it gets full and the bags don't get much dust in them and I rarely have to empty them at all. Pardon my messy shop.
thats a nice system. I wonder if those spiral separators come in 6"? Im going for minimum space because my shop is small.
 

Renegade1LI

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The problem with piping outside is you loose your heat or ac, if that’s not a problem ok. I don’t like any bags in the system, much better off with a filter element designed for a dust collector. Using a cyclone with filter element and a steel container air tight will give you excellent filtration. I also don’t like the Idea of dumping unfiltered air outside, saw dust gets everywhere.
 
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Enigma

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...I also don’t like the Idea of dumping unfiltered air outside, saw dust gets everywhere.
when you say unfiltered do you mean no separator just raw dust into the impeller and out into the yard? my understanding is that the separator takes 99% of the dust out of the airstream and it takes months to accumulate only a few cups in the filter. So I envision nothing really going outside except the invisible fine dust that is so dangerous.
 
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Firstram

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What is it like outside or your shop? If you can get away with the dust out there, that would be the most efficient. Build a treated wood hopper that has a window screen upper section and shovel it out when full. Cyclones and filters can be restrictive, a 2hp blower will rip if you can run it uncorked!
 
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Enigma

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then i was reading on that famous site that an uncorked motor will burn up in 12 minutes if it has no resistance. that makes no sense to me. i would think it would be easier on the motor.
 

Firstram

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then i was reading on that famous site that an uncorked motor will burn up in 12 minutes if it has no resistance. that makes no sense to me. i would think it would be easier on the motor.
The volume of air moved is what loads the motor. Use an amp probe to see what your blower is currently drawing while running with nothing hooked up. Cover the inlet and watch the amp draw drop way down when it's not doing any work. If it's not pulling more than the nameplate amperage, it won't burn up!
Once you start hooking tools and duct work up you'll start to lose volume and velocity which will lower the load on the motor.

I have opened up the inlet on quite a few of these blowers to get them to work harder. Tune your system with the amperage drawn.
 
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Firstram

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Not at all, the motor is not cooled with the extraction fan. It's cooled with the fan under the shroud on the end of the motor.
 
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Enigma

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i dont mean cooling i mean if its not allowed to move air because tge input is blocked? will it be a load on the motor? will it be harder for the motor to turn? more friction?
 

Firstram

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Less friction! The more air you move the harder the motor works. With the intake covered that motor would run just like it would if there was a pulley on the output shaft.
 
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Enigma

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i read such conflicting things. I read one place they were emphasizing never to run the motor with the blast gates closed because it would burn up the motor.
 

PoorUB

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It depends on the style of the motor. For most motors used on larger dust collectors it will not matter if they are "loaded" or not.

Some of that information comes from furnace blower motors. A typical 3 or 4 speed blower motor for a furnace does not run well in free air, it needs some restriction.

For instance, one day my neighbor came over and asked about his blower he uses in his shop. He picked up a furnace blower and uses it to ventilate his shop. He had taken the blower and wired in a cord and screwed on some feet. He told me it runs for a while, 10-15 minutes then the motor temperature protection trips and it would not run until the motor cools down.

I grabbed my clamp amp meter and went over and checked it out. The motor was running way over amped, but if I blocked the air flow the motor amps dropped. He had a piece of sheet metal and we messed around with it and ended up blocking about 1/3rd of the fan outlet. The weird thing is it moves more air with the choked discharge and the motor amps dropped and runs at a higher RPM.
 

Firstram

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I grabbed my clamp amp meter and went over and checked it out. The motor was running way over amped, but if I blocked the air flow the motor amps dropped. He had a piece of sheet metal and we messed around with it and ended up blocking about 1/3rd of the fan outlet. The weird thing is it moves more air with the choked discharge and the motor amps dropped and runs at a higher RPM.
We use squirrel cage blowers for exterior atmosphere on film sets, commonly called tube of death. We attach rolls of plastic bag material 16" dia by 500' long, you roll out as much as you need, inflate it and cut a small hole every 8 to 10 feet. This lets us distribute "fog" evenly around a film set. I have had to detune all 6 of our fans for the same reason!
This type of blower is designed to work with a specific amount of back pressure. Moving too much free air overloads it.

A DC works the same way. Plumb your ductwork and check the amp draw, it will be less than an open fan!
 
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Enigma

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interesting so would it be advisable to use a second blast gate and ampmeter to dial in the amps to the max rated amps of the motor for peak flow? i have heard reorts of guys getting better performance by opening partially another gate especially when using smaller hoses
 

Monza Harry

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Well the Oneida web site shows one in 6": https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-dep...ts/super-dust-deputy-6-inch-cyclone-separator so your in luck. There are a few members here with quite relevant threads, Oregon Rock Crusher is one I recall having a pretty substantial setup, and Occupant RJ (sp?) has a big thread on sandblasting which includes dust collection (long, long thread) to help with the DIY approach but @ ~$250, and today's material costs that price maybe hard to beat and someone else has done the R&D for us. Mount it to a 45Imperial/55SAE gallon drum with a removable lid and you will be "Sucking" like nobody's business! LOL! Harry
 
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Enigma

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yes its tempting. space is a factor. i would have to mount the motor on the wall with the dd under it and connect that to the bin with flex hose. then exhaust the motor to tge outdoors through a 6" hole i would bore through the concrete block wall. tge get rid of tge bags
 

Firstram

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interesting so would it be advisable to use a second blast gate and ampmeter to dial in the amps to the max rated amps of the motor for peak flow? i have heard reorts of guys getting better performance by opening partially another gate especially when using smaller hoses
Basically, sort of. It takes 2-4" ducts to equal 1-6", you do need to allow enough air to flow to keep the velocity up in the system.
 

Firstram

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I just have a cheap HF clamp meter, like $10 cheap. I haven't ruined anything yet because of it but, I'm a low tech user.
 
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Enigma

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Well she cleaned up pretty good. I washed all the crusted wood dust from 1995 and washed the 30 micron bags in the washing machine. Fixed the switch which was clogged with dust and the wire came loose from the screw fixed that also, the cleaned the contacts on the switch which were all burned and had corrosion on them. Shes a pretty girl. Maybe I will keep her the way she is and just run it outside with a long flex hose to the main 6" pipe in the garage. I ordered a cfm meter so we shall see if its a true 2 hp or not also ordered a clip on amp meter to see how many actual amps its drawing. Supposed to draw 15 at 230. Then I went ahead and confirmed the impeller is 12" and there is 3 " to spare if a bigger one would be advantageous. Some guys were talking about the direction the impeller rotates being significant also the curve on the blades. Not sure but would like to look into that.
 

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niget2002

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I built a 2 stage dust collector and a plastic bucket. It's worked great for me.

I've considered running the exhaust through the wall instead of into the bags.
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Enigma

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Im surprised you are still getting sawdust in the bottom of the clear bag. Thats a very nice setup. If you exhaust outdoors all that in the clear plastic bag will be all over the yard.
 
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