Wrong tool (bolt rounding)?

[stickshift]

I tried taking off an oil drain plug with the open end of a 17mm wrench. As you can see, the vertex on the right side of the pic rounded (really, 'gouged' seems more appropriate), but only that vertex, the others were fine.

I ended up freeing the bolt with a 17mm 6pt socket and a 3/8" drive breaker bar, which I suppose is what I should have used from the start.

Should the open ends of wrenches be avoided for freeing a fastener? I didn't want to use the box end because it was a 12pt, and my understanding is that you are much more likely to round fasteners using 12pt than 6pt.

No harm, no foul, as drain plugs are easy to find and cheap, but might as well use this experience to learn and prevent rounding a fastener in a situation where immediate replacement isn't so easy and inexpensive.

 

[HandyManny]

Here's a tip - for oil drain plugs I like to use a box wrench or the box-end of a combo wrench. Stick with one of those in the right size and you shouldn't have a problem. 12pt or 6pt, no matter, either works well for drain plugs. Should be no tighter than 21 ft/lbs of torque for a drain plug that size anyway.

 

[twincam00]

as handymanny said, box end is the way to go. only use the open end if you cannot get the boxed in there

 

[blarf]

Did the wrench spread at all?

Also, yeah, use a box wrench or a socket on that... and then remember to not tighten the living daylights out of it on reinstallation. Drain plugs commonly use crush washers for sealing... not brute force.

 

[furbis]

What brand of wrench?

 

[Hiball]

Sounds like a poor quality wrench or a defective one, then again some people/places tend to torque oil plugs to 3-400 ft lbs.. Like others, I find it better to use the box end when breaking anything loose.

 

[Wakefield]

6 point box end>12 point box end>open end (best to worst?) 6 point socket even better?
(On a hex head fastener)
I would still think a good quality open end of the correct size should work on a steel fastener that is not over tightened or corroded.
That's not brass?

 

[ajchien]

I prefer the 6 point box end/socket for drain plugs.

 

[otis66]

I tried taking off an oil drain plug with the open end of a 17mm wrench. As you can see, the vertex on the right side of the pic rounded (really, 'gouged' seems more appropriate), but only that vertex, the others were fine.

I ended up freeing the bolt with a 17mm 6pt socket and a 3/8" drive breaker bar, which I suppose is what I should have used from the start.

Should the open ends of wrenches be avoided for freeing a fastener? I didn't want to use the box end because it was a 12pt, and my understanding is that you are much more likely to round fasteners using 12pt than 6pt.

No harm, no foul, as drain plugs are easy to find and cheap, but might as well use this experience to learn and prevent rounding a fastener in a situation where immediate replacement isn't so easy and inexpensive.

I was taught from day one to always use the box end to break a nut/bolt free when you can.

 

[larry_g]

I tried taking off an oil drain plug with the open end of a 17mm wrench. As you can see, the vertex on the right side of the pic rounded (really, 'gouged' seems more appropriate), but only that vertex, the others were fine.

Should the open ends of wrenches be avoided for freeing a fastener? I didn't want to use the box end because it was a 12pt, and my understanding is that you are much more likely to round fasteners using 12pt than 6pt.

.

Knocking of only 1/2 the point off like that I would say that you did not have the wrench correctly on the hex. I would also say that some one has lead you astray on the 6/12 point. I have been turning wrenches many years and only had 12 point stuff for years. I did not notice any problems with a 12 point on a hex head fastener.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[HandyManny]

Sounds like a poor quality wrench or a defective one.

Yeah but if the wrench was hard or tough enough to dent/gouge the plug then it must not have been that poor of quality. I doubt it spread too. Likely it slipped or moved a bit too far up and touched the weakest part of that vertex when turning.

Though I always try to use a box-end for drain plugs I have at times (usually in a pinch) used a 12inch adjustable wrench as well as an open-end wrench and never had a problem with this myself. It's not only a matter of using the right tool, but also a matter of knowing how to use various tools to get the same job done. I've often used pliers on certain things I shouldn't have without damaging them. Not bragging, just saying.

I have seen many where impact sockets used on an impact wrench will leave similar marks if they slip too high up on the hex, but those marks are consistently left on all 6 vertex usually

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

I one time was using a craftsman RP combo wrench to take off a motor mount though bolt (wana say it was a 17mm?) I pushed hard and the wrench lurched forward almost like I had broken the bolt free. I put the wrench on and discovered it was just as tight as it ever was. Tried again and again and noticed the jaws were just spreading and slipping off. I did some serious damage to the bolt head.

Ended up just removing everything out of the way (PS fluid RES and Coolant recovery tank) Hammering a socket on and working it off with a 1/2" drive ratchet. IMO if you can always use a socket. 6pt for 6pt stuff and 12pt for 12pt stuff Not saying I havent used a 12pt on a 6pt bolt and if you cant get a ratchet in there the box end of a wrench will work just fine most times.

Good Luck
Sean Scott

 

[HandyManny]

Knocking of only 1/2 the point off like that I would say that you did not have the wrench correctly on the hex. I would also say that some one has lead you astray on the 6/12 point. I have been turning wrenches many years and only had 12 point stuff for years. I did not notice any problems with a 12 point on a hex head fastener.

lg
no neat sig line

I have to agree with this on all points made.

 

[HandyManny]

I one time was using a craftsman RP combo wrench to take off a motor mount though bolt (wana say it was a 17mm?) I pushed hard and the wrench lurched forward almost like I had broken the bolt free. I put the wrench on and discovered it was just as tight as it ever was. Tried again and again and noticed the jaws were just spreading and slipping off. I did some serious damage to the bolt head.

Good Luck
Sean Scott

Damn....you must be strong!! Or that raised panel Cman wrench was made of spring steel. One or the other.

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

I had my back against the side of the garage pushing with my back and arms, that and I kind of had to put the wrench at an angle a little bit but not much. But I swear the jaws spread. Either way it f-ed up the bolt pretty good.

But no, I am not strong at all. I rarely go to the gym

 

[stickshift]

Did the wrench spread at all?

Negative.

and then remember to not tighten the living daylights out of it on reinstallation. Drain plugs commonly use crush washers for sealing... not brute force.

Used car, someone else cranked that puppy on. I tightened the new bolt quite a bit less.

What brand of wrench?

HF :ducks for cover:

Sounds like a poor quality wrench or a defective one, then again some people/places tend to torque oil plugs to 3-400 ft lbs.

Yeah, I think that was part of the problem. I had to apply a fair bit of force to the breaker bar to loosen the plug.

6 point box end>12 point box end>open end (best to worst?) 6 point socket even better?
(On a hex head fastener)

That's what I'm going to do next time, depending on clearance - start with 6pt socket, then 6pt box end, etc.

That's not brass?

Dunno.

Knocking of only 1/2 the point off like that I would say that you did not have the wrench correctly on the hex.

Quite possible. I definitely had it seated correctly to begin with, but the bolt head does point down a little and it's possible that just before or as I started applying force, that the wrench slipped down.

 

[stickshift]

So an open end wrench is to be used only when sockets or closed end cannot access the fastener?

 

[sparky7]

Thats one of the reasons that a high end wrench really makes a difference, i guarantee if you put a snap on wrench on there and had it positioned correctly that wouldnt have happened because a snap on wrench will not spread the jaws.

That said, whenever dealing with rusted or stuck hardware, a high quality 6 point socket is the best choice, with a 6 point box wrench being the next best, then a 12 point box wrench, etc etc

 

[Gtamazing]

And that there is why a Harbor Freight wrench is a hunk of ****. Now if that was done with a quality wrench it would be an IO problem.

 

[Benji]

So an open end wrench is to be used only when sockets or closed end cannot access the fastener?

You got it.

 

[stickshift]

Thats one of the reasons that a high end wrench really makes a difference, i guarantee if you put a snap on wrench on there and had it positioned correctly that wouldnt have happened because a snap on wrench will not spread the jaws.

Jaws didn't spread or at least they didn't permanently deform. I guess you are suggesting they may have temporarily deformed?

 

[srmofo]

Negative.

HF :ducks for cover:

Theres your problem. I think you just learned your first lesson in what value really means when buying tools.

I understand though, its hard to justify the cost of a professional tool if you are not making money or using them frequently. From now on stick with the closed end or use a socket....or buy a higher quality wrench set, but damn they are expensive.

 

[srmofo]

Jaws didn't spread or at least they didn't permanently deform. I guess you are suggesting they may have temporarily deformed?

Correct, they will spread apart and spring back....sometimes they will break the ear off also

 

[ishiboo]

Sure it was a 17 and not a 16? Looks like if it was the right size wrench, it wasn't positioned correctly IMO

 

[2chipped]

That is how you ,I,and everyone else on this forum learned. These are my rules. #1 always push away with an open hand when possible(smacking your nose while pulling, pushing with a fist around the tool and raking your knuckles into sharp corner HURTS.)#2 use a swivel,ext,etc, with a ratchet and socket when possible (I have been known to use 3 feet of extensions thru the wheelwell to avoid whacking my hand in close qtrs )#3when using any tool make surest makes 360 degrees of contact. #4 I use socket first. wrench second. adj wrench third. pliers fourth.and pipe wrenches last on fastners. #5 use a closed tool (box end of wrench,or socket to break a nut /bolt loose. I hope this helps.

 

[stickshift]

That is how you ,I,and everyone else on this forum learned. These are my rules. #1 always push away with an open hand when possible(smacking your nose while pulling, pushing with a fist around the tool and raking your knuckles into sharp corner HURTS.)#2 use a swivel,ext,etc, with a ratchet and socket when possible (I have been known to use 3 feet of extensions thru the wheelwell to avoid whacking my hand in close qtrs )#3when using any tool make surest makes 360 degrees of contact. #4 I use socket first. wrench second. adj wrench third. pliers fourth.and pipe wrenches last on fastners. #5 use a closed tool (box end of wrench,or socket to break a nut /bolt loose. I hope this helps.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[GoBlue]

Typically the springy sensation where you feel like the open end spreads, slips, then returns is from not engaging enough of the bolt with the open end not from the wrench spreading. It also leaves gouges in the open end jaws sometimes. Do not mistake this for jaw spreading. When a jaw spreads...it doesn't come back...it stays spread.

 

[e30bradley]

So an open end wrench is to be used only when sockets or closed end cannot access the fastener?

On a combo wrench you use the box end to break it lose and the open end side to remove it quicker.

 

[jjjrmx5]

Oil drain plugs are a major beef of mine which is why I do all my own oil changes on all my cars.

I've had acar (the ex's) where a big volume local dealer tech snugged it up and then forgot to tighten it and it worked itself loose and finally out over time to where the oil light and buzzer came on with my wife driving the car-and she kept driving it until things went boom.

She took the new and thus replacement car to a jiffy lube type place long after that experience where they ran the bolt up with an impact and -guess what-it's helicoil or ****** cork plug time.

Nope. Never again.
If it's that much work to get it loose it't torqued too tight or you failed to use the correct crush washer.

i personally always use a 6-point whatever tool (usually socket i) on my drain plugs, and if karma is a *****, it came around one day to me as I pulled a rounded drain plug from a **** dealer oil change and replaced it with a new plug and set the old plug in the windshield cowl. Drained oil, put in new plug, filled oil and then closed hood. Old drain plug sat at the right angle and place that the &^%$er was wedged in at the base of my windshield and the hood being dropped and completely spidered the lower corner of the whole windshield and ran a stress crack up the side.

New drain plug = $3 at dealer. New windshield= I'm a *******.Duh.
LOL.

 

[greasemonkey44]

hehe; its all part of the learning process man

 

[JimDon]

Nobody ever use a striking wrench? NO, No, not striking a box wrench with a hammer, although that will work, but a real wrench with a built up "anvil" area on the opposite end which is designed to be struck with a ball peen hammer. (BTW, claw hammers are NOT designed to strike chisels and punches , etc. Their face is designed to strike a nail head.)

 

[tyndall]

On a good bolt that is not already rounded, a 12pt is just as good as a 6pt. The contact points are the same. If the bolt is soft or rounded, 6pt is better. I very seldom dig out my 6pts on a job.

A 6 or 12pt box end or socket will distribute the torque over the 6pts of the bolt. An open end only uses 2 points to transfer the torque, so it the bolt is really stuck either the jaws spread or the bolt starts to round.

 

[stickshift]

A 6 or 12pt box end or socket will distribute the torque over the 6pts of the bolt. An open end only uses 2 points to transfer the torque, so it the bolt is really stuck either the jaws spread or the bolt starts to round.

Makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

 

[wafrederick]

6 point sockets get worn out overtime used wrong sometimes called chrome sockets used on an impact wrench.Then there are the oil change places that cross thread drain plugs when reinstalling them.Had a Ford Escape in for this reason,someone at the oil change place cross threaded the drain plug and it was the cause of an oil leak.The oil pan is aluminum and ended up installing an oversized drain plug.There are the toggle bolt type drain plugs I hate,don't seal worth a **** and leak

 

[pipsters]

vs

In all honestly it looks like the wrench slipped off as you were bearing down on it. Probably what happened is the head started to spread and then it started slipping off the nut. I had the exact same thing happen to me with the high dollar Craftsman Pro wrenches everyone raves about. You know the strongest open ended wrench I've used so far? Craftsman raised panels. They are thick and strong and don't spread. That being said I haven't tried Snap-On but for $3.50 a wrench in sets the RP's are the best for the $$ you can get IMO.

 

[GoBlue]

Craftsman RP wrenches just dont spread. For the sake of settling an argument i have used the open end with a cheater pipe on the wrench. No spreading what so ever and that was a current production rp wrench. I honestly dont believe the OP's wrench spread either. Most likely the engagement was lost as he applied force due to the fastener not being fully in the open end if that makes any sense. Number one failure when the open end is used by far.

 

[otis66]

I tried taking off an oil drain plug with the open end of a 17mm wrench. As you can see, the vertex on the right side of the pic rounded (really, 'gouged' seems more appropriate), but only that vertex, the others were fine.

I ended up freeing the bolt with a 17mm 6pt socket and a 3/8" drive breaker bar, which I suppose is what I should have used from the start.

Should the open ends of wrenches be avoided for freeing a fastener? I didn't want to use the box end because it was a 12pt, and my understanding is that you are much more likely to round fasteners using 12pt than 6pt.

No harm, no foul, as drain plugs are easy to find and cheap, but might as well use this experience to learn and prevent rounding a fastener in a situation where immediate replacement isn't so easy and inexpensive.

I would get a new drain plug. That drain plug is going to be an azz ache down the road. Next time use the box end of the wrench. Use a wrench over a ratchet and socket. It will be less messy IMOP.

 

[shampoop]

that's the #1 difference between cheap combo wrenches. The open end will spread under high stress. You won't actually see it spread, but it will round the fastener. In the exact same situation with a better wrench, the fastener will just break loose instead of round out.

 

[djb2]

I too used to believe that 6 point wrenches and sockets were always better than 12 point.

I have since learned that the contact points, contact shape and tolerance are more important.

A loose-fitting straight-sided six point wrench/socket will put all of the force on the corners of the bolt head, exactly the same as a 12 point. If the size tolerance is tight enough to minimize that effect, you often can't fit the tool over a slightly mangled bolt head.

A better design is to not use straight sides so that the pressure peak is applied away from the corner. This concept goes by many names such as "Flank drive". With the right shape the size doesn't have to be exact, but a more precise tool will result in a bigger initial contact area and less deformation of the fastener head.

With this design there is almost no compromise in making a 12 point tool instead of a 6 point tool.

 

[blarf]

In all honestly it looks like the wrench slipped off as you were bearing down on it. Probably what happened is the head started to spread and then it started slipping off the nut. I had the exact same thing happen to me with the high dollar Craftsman Pro wrenches everyone raves about. You know the strongest open ended wrench I've used so far? Craftsman raised panels. They are thick and strong and don't spread. That being said I haven't tried Snap-On but for $3.50 a wrench in sets the RP's are the best for the $$ you can get IMO.

Which Pro wrenches? The Danaher USA ones seemed to get panned pretty reliably, the old SK ones not so much. I bought a set of the RPs recently as they were on sale (and a few extra 6mm ones as my car eats those for lunch). On sale they were ~$2/wrench (maybe a bit less). Probably the only thing in the Craftsman line that's underpriced.

I bet with box ends you can get away with much cheaper tools than with the open ends. That's why you pay the big bucks for SnapOn, Wright, etc: flank drive type stuff on the open end.

And the end of the day my heart will always belong to Hazet. Amazing satin finish, rounded edges. They just fit in your hand like nothing else.