WTF is it with contractors in my county

[Kevin54]

I just got an estimate I was waiting on for a couple of weeks. the contractor kept telling me that he would have it by Friday, but I guess I never asked WHICH Friday. He slipped it into my garage door and left. The reason he left.....he didn't want to face me in person. I only caught him out of the corner of my eye, going past the window.

I stopped where he was at the other day and asked if he forgot about me, and he promised that he would have the estimate by this Friday. At the time I was speaking with him, he told me the final price was going to be around $31-$32,000. I'm good with that. Todays price.......$52,000

Now, here is how it works in my area and the Land of Lazy Contractors.....this is Contractor #4 also. Contractor #1 was going to do the job, but he is having family issues and took over 6 months to get me a price. Come to find out, #1 was going to sub out the work to #4, and the price was $37,000 complete, give or take a few grand because he had the siding screwed up (metal when I want cedar) Contractor #2 wanted $55,000, #3 has never got back with me at all, even though he was a "drop off the quote on Friday" also, and that is closing in on 6 months.

#4 has the materials at $35,000 and $17,000 for labor. I have already figured the materials prior to #3 and #4 quoting on the job, and I figured high on the materials and what I figured included concrete and footers, so I know what materials cost. What I figured was $18,500, and I rounded that to $20,000. I'm not building anything extravagant or huge. It's a 28' x 36' addition tying in to my existing garage with 10' high walls, 4/12 Scissor trusses w/1' overhang. Everything is straight forward and nothing special, or at least I don't think it's anything special. Even when I was discussing cost with #4, early on, I told him what the quotes were, and he thought the $37,000 was high. Now.....if #1 was going to sub out the work to #4, and the price was $37,000......#1 is making money, and #4 would be making money, but #4 doing it by himself, with one helper, the price jumped to $52,000. It must be some of that Core Siberian Singapore Math going on in his figuring.

I have a call in to my concrete guy that has done work for me in the past, and he asked me for the opportunity to bid on the whole job and not just the concrete. He sent a guy that works with him to figure things as far as lumber, about two weeks ago. Craig, which I will now refer to him as Contractor #5 is going to figure the block and concrete work. He said that he could get the prices together fairly quick. So hopefully he'll call me back later today.

I told the wife this morning that I actually believe the cars and the house is what kills us when it comes to hiring someone. With the landscaping the wife does around the house, her 20'x20' building, our house, my garage, we have had nothing but compliments on our place. Even strangers stop and ask if they can look at all of the flowers. My wife might run into someone at the grocery store of WallyWorld, and in the conversation they might ask her where she lives. When she tells them, they all know the house and say it is the best looking house on the road. Then there is the '64 Olds that the contractors have all seen, and the clean '81 Hoopty, and I truly believe they think we are loaded with money. Little do they know that we paid cash for everything. My garage, the wifes building, the family room.....paid cash by both the wife and I working a lot of 60-80 hour weeks, and working 7 days a week, every week. My days off consisted of taking 4 hours on a Friday once in a while, and my wife went 5 months one time without taking any time off.

So I think the way our place looks is a hindrance when it comes to getting a realistic price from people. But it is what it is, and I can't hide the house or the wife's building.

On the other hand, I know who NOT to recommend to other people. And the contractors around here, especially #4 doesn't remember what we discussed early on as far as cost, other quotes, and what he told me a few days ago. #4 builds houses, so he knows basically what things cost without fine tuning a price. So giving me a ballpark figure the other day of $31-$32,000 that he figured but he just had to fine tune it by $20,000 tells me that he is trying to put the fucks to me. That flies about as good as a lead balloon.

 

[MagKarl]

General contractors are in the business of making money by hiring subcontractors so that you don't have to. Take responsibility for your own job and cut out the middle man.

Spend the time/money on good plans. Hire an excavator, when he's done, pay him. Same goes for concrete, framer, roofer, sider, plumber, HVAC, electrical, insulation, drywall, painter, finish carpenter, etc. It's not hard, all you have to do is be able to communicate.

 

[sselander]

Yes it is a pain
Side note, did you see Amazon is starting home services?
http://www.amazon.com/services

 

[zkdiesel]

Could you maybe be a customer that is hard to deal with? I'm not a contractor, but work for the public, and am always too busy with a wait list. The customers that pay but are hard to deal with continually get bumped on my "to do list" by easy to deal with customers.

 

[akdiesel]

I can feel you frustration. I have my reasons for their actions but it is only an assumption so I won't mention the reasons.
But I have had good luck with some contractors. Not sure of their title but the ones that do commercial type buildings. Could have just been a luck of the draw a couple of times but they were very professional and on time every day.
Good luck.

 

[rancherbill]

Kevin, here is the sum of all my knowledge about life.

To be successful at anything you need 10 skills. This applies as a contractor, farmer, Dad, Husband etc. Very few people have all 10 skills on anything they are doing.

You are experiencing people who do not have quoting skills, but they do have construction skills etc. It is better than dealing with slimy god$&*%^&* liars that have great sales skills but no constructions skills.

A name I hear on GJ often is Morton Buildings. They have a sales dept, quote department etc - the whole 10 skills. They seem to do well.

Ultimately, you want guys with great constructions skills at reasonable prices and so you have to be patient and hand hold all these guys.

 

[rslaback]

Just so you know, figuring all the material cost yourself is a huge red flag to a contractor. It stinks of a hard to deal with customer who will always think he is being cheated. If business is good and you give off that vibe you're going to get blown off.

 

[Hootbro]

I stopped where he was at the other day and asked if he forgot about me, and he promised that he would have the estimate by this Friday. At the time I was speaking with him, he told me the final price was going to be around $31-$32,000. I'm good with that. Todays price.......$52,000

Was the original quote before he seen your property? All the contractors around here have sliding scales on jobs depending on what your house looks like and the car in the driveway.

 

[Kevin54]

Could you maybe be a customer that is hard to deal with? I'm not a contractor, but work for the public, and am always too busy with a wait list. The customers that pay but are hard to deal with continually get bumped on my "to do list" by easy to deal with customers.

I just noticed that you are ZKDIESEL, and the reply under you is AKDIESEL.

No I am not difficult to deal with. I don't say anything to the contractor as far as what needs to be done. I keep my mouth shut and listen to them rattle on. Ask anyone on here that has dealt with me, or talked to me on the phone, and they will tell you the same thing. I'm probably easier going that most in reality.

But I do tend to get pissed when someone tells me that the price is going to be $32,000 on day, and on paper it jumped by $20,000. And I've said it before......I live in one of the laziest counties around. The only way to get a contractor off of their *** is to give them thousands more than what the job is worth. I've had to go out of the county for almost everything that I have had done.

Something I do find unusual though with all of the contractors so far......each and everyone has went out of town to get a place like Menards or Carters to bid the lumber, yet we have two real decent lumberyards in town. And not one contractor has figured up a material list, or even made a drawing. They dump it in Carter lumber or Menards lap.

MagKarl Re: WTF is it with contractors in my county

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
General contractors are in the business of making money by hiring subcontractors so that you don't have to. Take responsibility for your own job and cut out the middle man.
Spend the time/money on good plans. Hire an excavator, when he's done, pay him. Same goes for concrete, framer, roofer, sider, plumber, HVAC, electrical, insulation, drywall, painter, finish carpenter, etc. It's not hard, all you have to do is be able to communicate.

Mag....I don't need good plans, as everything is plain and simple. The contractor I spoke with also does his own work. And if you read above, the first contractor I spoke with, was wanting to sub out to the last contractor(#4) and my price would have been $37,000. Now #4 want $52,000. It doesn't add up.

As far as plans......if I have to, I can draw my own plans up. I was a tool designer for years, and I have built everything around here myself. As far as cutting out the middle man, it boils right back down to not being able to find anyone to work. This all started a year ago this month. I have a contractor right next door, but you can't get him off of his *** unless it involve gambling at the Moose Lodge and signing the books. I would act as the GC, but I didn't want to piecemeal things, nor can I any longer do the work myself, or I would.

Contractor #2....I pass his house daily, and his truck never leaves the house. He's always standing out in his yard having a smoke. Evidently these guys just don't need money.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Just so you know, figuring all the material cost yourself is a huge red flag to a contractor. It stinks of a hard to deal with customer who will always think he is being cheated. If business is good and you give off that vibe you're going to get blown off.

Yep.

I once charged a customer 1200 I think for 10 10 gallon Leland cypresses. He said he could buy them at Home Depot for $40. He brought back a 5 gallon 3 ft tall one.

Never mind the fact the he agreed to the price and we installed it with a 3 year warranty. This was after the fact you know I'm trying to rip people off right? Lol

 

[sublimate]

Price is set by supply and demand. It's the American way.
Love it or leave it.

 

[buba]

Was the original quote before he seen your property? All the contractors around here have sliding scales on jobs depending on what your house looks like and the car in the driveway.

Amen, If a BMW is in the driveway the quote gets Ch-Chingged.

 

[Hootbro]

Price is set by supply and demand. It's the American way.
Love it or leave it.

For a static made product, normal supply and demand may work.

For job quoting, it is 40% cost and materials and the remaining 60% is them pulling it out of their *** based on your ability to pay.

As I alluded to in my earlier question, too many quotes for work are based on them seeing how much they can bleed out of the customer. Having two identical jobs being done with one in the hood and the in an upscale neighborhood with nice car in the driveway, the later one will get it stuck to them. They are called doctors and lawyers quotes around my area.

Call any contractor for a job quote and the first thing they are doing is zillow.com your house value and then doing a google street view of your house and neighborhood.

 

[Kevin54]

Just so you know, figuring all the material cost yourself is a huge red flag to a contractor. It stinks of a hard to deal with customer who will always think he is being cheated. If business is good and you give off that vibe you're going to get blown off.

He didn't know that I knew what materials cost, nor that I figured them. And that's another thing, one figures close to $20,000 for materials, another figures $35,000 for materials, yet all go to the same place to get their estimates.

Was the original quote before he seen your property? All the contractors around here have sliding scales on jobs depending on what your house looks like and the car in the driveway.

No, because they all stopped over to measure things, and they saw what they saw.

One thing though which is making me think about the price increase......today, he is ripping out a shitload of concrete that he just finished pouring the other day but fucked up on. I've seen his dump truck go past the house twice already, so his screw-up comes out of his pocket. I don't pay for his mistake on someone else's job. I can see where he is working from my house.

He also knows that I have another quote coming, but he will knock off $2000 if I give him the job by tomorrow. Right!!!! And he also knows that he's putting the screws to me, because any other time, he would walk right in the garage. Today, he sticks it in the door while I'm in the garage, then sneaks away. So why would someone do that?

One other thing....the concrete guy that wants to bid on the complete job, I had to go with him after finding that things were getting really high around here. He made good money, but saved me $14,000 over the concrete contractors in my county. Every single thing we have done, we had to go out of town to get it done, except for my drywall guy, and a painter. And in turn, I have sent them quite a few jobs, and a few big jobs.

 

[Hootbro]

Something tells me that contractor had a new "personal expense" come up then and he is now high-balling the quote to cover that.

Like I said, they pull it out of their *** on the fly and you are at their mercy.

 

[58Yeoman]

Kevin, as I mentioned in your last thread, about my deck needing replacing. The first 'contractor' took almost 4 weeks to build a 3-day deck. He'd do part, then leave for a week or so. Anyway, the second contractor came Monday to replace the deck, all the way to the ground. Four of them got here at 9am, and by 11am, had the entire deck disassembled, removing all the screws instead of cutting it up. They left about 4:30 with the deck being done completely, and as I wanted it in the first place.

They were definitely 'out-of-county', over 40 miles away. Let the schmucks sit on their front lawn smoking as they watch real contractors drive by on the way to your house.

 

[Richard Cranium]

don't act as g.c. either, because you will have the same problems with subs. You will be on the bottom of their list, being you are a one time customer and they will take one of their regular contracts that gives them lots of work...Rich

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

We must be taking with the same contractors. Covering an area that stretches from Illinois to Ohio can't be easy.

BTW: Take the initial ballpark estimate they give you, double it for the estimate they'll come back with on paper (if you're lucky). Then double it again to get a number close to the total you'll have spent by the time you are done.

You see, the original estimate didn't include thinks like:
Vapor barrier
Ridge vent
Door knobs
Recutting the concrete because they forgot to leave an opening for the door.
Removing the stump that was in the middle of the hole they needed to dig.
Filling in the ruts from them getting their truck stuck (in the area of the yard you told them not to drive on).

Oh and by the way: About those large expensive doors you wanted. They'll be able to install the smaller doors for the same price. If you really want the large doors they will cost extra because the concrete and framing will have to be redone.

 

[Alan Douglas]

The contractor may figure that someone with a nice house will be harder to please, and he can't cut corners.

We have always used contractors we know, or referrals from them.

 

[Kevin54]

For a static made product, normal supply and demand may work.

For job quoting, it is 40% cost and materials and the remaining 60% is them pulling it out of their *** based on your ability to pay.

As I alluded to in my earlier question, too many quotes for work are based on them seeing how much they can bleed out of the customer. Having two identical jobs being done with one in the hood and the in an upscale neighborhood with nice car in the driveway, the later one will get it stuck to them. They are called doctors and lawyers quotes around my area.

Call any contractor for a job quote and the first thing they are doing is zillow.com your house value and then doing a google street view of your house and neighborhood.

I totally agree. Most though, would have to live in this county to see how bad it really is. I hear from so many people how they can't find anyone to do anything. When I had the pond filled in, I did hook up with a local excavating company, we negotiated, and he still made damn good money because he got money for tearing out an existing football field in another town, and another county, and hauling off the topsoil. I needed fill AND topsoil. His topsoil goes for $200/tandem axle load, and his fill goes for $100/load. Seeing that I needed so much, we negotiated to $125 for top, and $75 for fill. In turn, I recommended him to three other individuals. The person that fertilizes are lawn......we haven't had a price increase in close to 10 years, because I have sent him so much other business. The guy that did my driveway, cut me a good deal because I have probably sent him 12 or more driveway jobs. He got three on my road alone. I also make anyone doing the work to put their sign out in the lawn, so others will know who is doing the work.

Another thing too.....I pay cash. I don't expect anyone to carry me for a week, or a month. I'd write a check to a contractor today for a down payment if I could find either an honest one, or one that wanted to work.

But I will be particular, once they start. I was taught to be particular. I'm tough on myself. Like anything.....I'll end up hiring my concrete guy. I should have called him first, but didn't think about it.

 

[bczygan]

I just noticed that you are ZKDIESEL, and the reply under you is AKDIESEL.

No I am not difficult to deal with. I don't say anything to the contractor as far as what needs to be done. I keep my mouth shut and listen to them rattle on. Ask anyone on here that has dealt with me, or talked to me on the phone, and they will tell you the same thing. I'm probably easier going that most in reality.

But I do tend to get pissed when someone tells me that the price is going to be $32,000 on day, and on paper it jumped by $20,000. And I've said it before......I live in one of the laziest counties around. The only way to get a contractor off of their *** is to give them thousands more than what the job is worth. I've had to go out of the county for almost everything that I have had done.

Something I do find unusual though with all of the contractors so far......each and everyone has went out of town to get a place like Menards or Carters to bid the lumber, yet we have two real decent lumberyards in town. And not one contractor has figured up a material list, or even made a drawing. They dump it in Carter lumber or Menards lap.



Mag....I don't need good plans, as everything is plain and simple. The contractor I spoke with also does his own work. And if you read above, the first contractor I spoke with, was wanting to sub out to the last contractor(#4) and my price would have been $37,000. Now #4 want $52,000. It doesn't add up.

As far as plans......if I have to, I can draw my own plans up. I was a tool designer for years, and I have built everything around here myself. As far as cutting out the middle man, it boils right back down to not being able to find anyone to work. This all started a year ago this month. I have a contractor right next door, but you can't get him off of his *** unless it involve gambling at the Moose Lodge and signing the books. I would act as the GC, but I didn't want to piecemeal things, nor can I any longer do the work myself, or I would.

Contractor #2....I pass his house daily, and his truck never leaves the house. He's always standing out in his yard having a smoke. Evidently these guys just don't need money.

Many contractors will strive to get the most money for the least work. Some will bid on every available job, and pump up the numbers. If they get it, they will either put their junk crew on it, or shop other contractors to sub it to.

A contractors first loyalty is to himself. If you can benefit him, you can also be in the mix.

Most contracts are one time only, so not much incentive to build a relationship with the owner.

Most operate without giving much information to the owner. It is an adversarial relationship. They are only required to have your interests at heart, to the extent of the law, and the vague contract you and he signed.

The only way to protect yourself, is to be a savvy owner. But many contractors shy away from savvy owners. Too much trouble.

My ideal world is a savvy and knowledgeable owner, matched with a savvy and open contractor. Joined at the hip, and both working for the common goal of a fast, efficient and well designed and constructed project.

This takes an owner who is unafraid of letting the contractor make a decent profit, and who knows that things cost real money.

It also takes a contractor who is unafraid to share all his knowledge and who cn be totally open about all the costs. This means open and itemized bids, showing overhead and profit and contingency fees etc. No games played with allowances.

There is only one kind of contract that I know of, which supports this. That is a construction management contract.

It also requires detailed planning, specifying and selections, as well as careful selection of subcontractors and suppliers.

This kind of detailed work can be justified on large and expensive projects. But hard to justify on one off and small projects.

Plus, it takes a contractor who is set up and always operates this way, and an owner who also has experience and a comfort dealing with this way of working.

Done right, the owner and contractor are partners, who both gain by working closely together.

Bill

 

[polexican23]

Cut your 60-80 weeks. Become a GC and just treat people as you want to be treated and you will own all the business. Then just count the money rolling in.

 

[brianh]

I did a big trophy display room for a golf pro last year, when I gave her the estimate she was impressed, it was the same as I would charge anyone, I could have jacked it a lot and still got the job but it ain't right.

I also don't cut corners if I realize I underbid after the job is in process, thats not the customers problem.

 

[Kev442]

Nothing has changed in 25 years with garage quotes. I did a simple 30 x 24 in 1992. First quote was 25k, second was 14k. First guy was all over me for the job, couldn't believe he didn't get it.

 

[pablo94sc]

It's everywhere, not just OH. Contractors are asking ridiculous prices on small jobs, or making it so that you, the customer, have to jump through hoops to get the actual quote. For example, a lot of landscape companies down here that I asked for quotes on digging a couple french drains wanted me to go to their office during normal business hours (of course) to see plans, review quotes, etc. To me that's just a way to start a high-pressure sales tactics. Not going to happen.

 

[tcianci]

Man, this is a scary thread., As a contractor, I'm not sure if I would risk dealing with 80% of you guys. Please correct me if I'm wrong but did the OP state that he didn't need drawings because it was such a straight forward job? Big mistake!. If you can't present a set of approved working drawings to each contractor for quote purposes, you have no idea what each contractor is actually proposing and, if you engage anyone without drawings and specifications, you have absolutely no recourse over issues regarding the project scope. Also I believe the OP mentioned that the contractors let the lumber dealers do the "take off" for the materials. This is pretty common practice. You may do a materials list yourself based on material lengths or unit quantities that aren't popular or carried by a particular vendor, so there is a chance that stock lists and prices can vary considerably.

As far as finding guys in your county, Your concern should be the reputation and quality of the contractors you engage, no matter where they're located.

And not every contractor scopes out your situation and bases his quote on what he thinks he can stick you for. I have customers that are millionaires and customers that are just getting by and everyone pays the same, although the ones just getting by sometimes get charged a reduced labor rate if I can manage to sharpen the pencil a little for them.

I always read posts by the OP because he seems like a sharp and talented guy. but to all of you who have problems engaging a contractor you need to think about the type of vibe you're giving off to these guys. We contractors need to pay the bills like everyone else, want to work and typically don't approach a project as a one shot deal where we will never be seeing the customer again. So, it becomes a two way street, we may just not want to work for you and truthfully we just can't come out and tell you because you will just tell someone else and our name and reputation gets dinged for something we never even did.

 

[crepr12]

So its the customers fault...You are too picky I'm taking my tools and going home...And yes I would blast any and all contractors on the internet for shoddy work....

 

[Kevin54]

Man, this is a scary thread., As a contractor, I'm not sure if I would risk dealing with 80% of you guys. Please correct me if I'm wrong but did the OP state that he didn't need drawings because it was such a straight forward job? Big mistake!. If you can't present a set of approved working drawings to each contractor for quote purposes, you have no idea what each contractor is actually proposing and, if you engage anyone without drawings and specifications, you have absolutely no recourse over issues regarding the project scope. Also I believe the OP mentioned that the contractors let the lumber dealers do the "take off" for the materials. This is pretty common practice. You may do a materials list yourself based on material lengths or unit quantities that aren't popular or carried by a particular vendor, so there is a chance that stock lists and prices can vary considerably.

As far as finding guys in your county, Your concern should be the reputation and quality of the contractors you engage, no matter where they're located.

And not every contractor scopes out your situation and bases his quote on what he thinks he can stick you for. I have customers that are millionaires and customers that are just getting by and everyone pays the same, although the ones just getting by sometimes get charged a reduced labor rate if I can manage to sharpen the pencil a little for them.

I always read posts by the OP because he seems like a sharp and talented guy. but to all of you who have problems engaging a contractor you need to think about the type of vibe you're giving off to these guys. We contractors need to pay the bills like everyone else, want to work and typically don't approach a project as a one shot deal where we will never be seeing the customer again. So, it becomes a two way street, we may just not want to work for you and truthfully we just can't come out and tell you because you will just tell someone else and our name and reputation gets dinged for something we never even did.

tcianci.....don't take it wrong. I respect what a lot of contractor do. But this one was just like the others. I don't want to hear about your marriage problems, and I don't want a quote handed to me right after you got done telling me about your financial problems. That tells me that if you are having financial problems, then hand me the quote, you jacked the price up.

I don't want to hear you tell me that a previous quote I had was outrageous, then you tack $20,000 onto what I was quoted before.

I don't want to hear that your customer that you are doing work for is not satisfied, I see flaws, and today you are ripping things out.

I don't want you sneaking up to my door and slipping the quote in then leaving, when you know I am home, we have a doorbell, and you have called me on my cell multiple time.

I don't want to hear that you have the figures together, but just need to write things up proper, tell me that it will be right around $32,000, only to find things was inflated $20,000 dollars.

I don't want to hear you run down other contractors just to make yourself appear to be the best that there is. I have heard this from almost every contractor that I have spoke with.

What I want to see is someone WILLING to do the work, with a fair price. Contractor #2 ran down Contractor #4 and said he wasn't worth a ****. Then #2 can't even come up with a quote. Then he tells me that he doesn't want to be stuck with materials, so he will quote labor only, and give me a material list. WTF......When I write a check, I'm paying for materials and labor anyways. That is almost like calling me a cheat or a liar.

I don't want to hear that materials are $35,000 when I already figured things up so I would know, figured high on everything, and even a garage package the size I want is like $6500 not counting concrete or block.

I don't want to hear you talk for hours about how good you are, and all of the other contractors are a *************. Get off the Ego train.

I don't want to hear that Contractor #1 called you to do the work and you are a sub, but if I hire you, you can beat his price, but can't even come close.

And Tcianci......my remarks are in no way directed at you. This is just the general ******** that most put up with in our county. After speaking with #1, #2, and #3, I went out and took out a second mortgage for this. Now they all want to jack the price up.

And as said before, I am not hard to get along with. Others will attest to that fact. All I do is tell the contractors what I want, then spend a few hours listening to them rattle on about their life problems. My wants are simple......a 28' x 36' addition, scissor trusses, 1' overhang, tied into my existing garage, 2 windows, an entrance door, and a 16'x8' garage door, then a 7' x 24' bumpout.

I said that I would strip off the vinyl siding and take it to the ReStore to help out, and do anything I can to save time. Two contractors told me that I need to get the windows, garage door, and entrance door. Not a problem, but I want a turnkey addition. And all of this is just for the outside. Nothing on the inside. No insulation, no drywall, no electric.

As far as drawings, about all that is required from the Township is a sketch. A sketch of the footer and a few notes, and a halfass sketch of what the building will look like on an 8 1/2x11" sheet of notebook paper. The biggest concern is where the addition is from the well and septic.

When I built my wife's building, when I built my garage, and when I built my family room, I supplied ALL of the drawings. I've been a tool designer all of my life. When I supplied the drawings, I was told that they were way better than they usually get. I've told every contractor though that I don't want to have to supply the drawings. I shouldn't have to, and it should be up to them. It looks though like that may change. I'll draw the whole damn thing up if need be.

I'm waiting on my concrete guy to get with his buddy that was over a couple of weeks ago for his price. I know that he will get the job. He does have to register with the County though as he is out of our County, but that is only a couple of buck to get it done. And he asked me for the opportunity to bid on the complete job. I just don't want to get jacked around for another year like I have been this past year.

Tcianci.....I hope you understand that nothing was pointed in your direction. You my friend, have my respect

 

[jd_1138]

Something tells me that contractor had a new "personal expense" come up then and he is now high-balling the quote to cover that.

Like I said, they pull it out of their *** on the fly and you are at their mercy.

There was a local woman here about 10 years ago who hired a contractor to build an addition onto her house and to remodel the bathroom. He insisted that she pay for all materials and labor upfront, so she did. Like $25,000. He shows up the next day with a brand new pickup, tears out a wall and then disappears, never to be seen from again. Her neighbors had to come over and staple up plastic to keep the rain out.

She didn't even know his real name (he lied about his name), and she never asked to see his contracting license (which all reputable GC's will carry around with them to show prospective customers). She had decided to use him because he was the cheapest.

 

[jd_1138]

Man, this is a scary thread., As a contractor, I'm not sure if I would risk dealing with 80% of you guys. Please correct me if I'm wrong but did the OP state that he didn't need drawings because it was such a straight forward job? Big mistake!. If you can't present a set of approved working drawings to each contractor for quote purposes, you have no idea what each contractor is actually proposing and, if you engage anyone without drawings and specifications, you have absolutely no recourse over issues regarding the project scope.

Shoudn't a contractor and his head carpenter pretty much know how to frame out an addition to the local building codes? I mean; it's bottom plates, top plates, joists, studs, etc..

I guess some contractors insist on architectural and/or engineering plans, but others may not. There's a wide gamut of how various GC's operate, I suppose.

 

[tsiawd]

I personally wouldn't go anywhere near this job.

 

[RedDirtRoad]

Man, this is a scary thread., As a contractor, I'm not sure if I would risk dealing with 80% of you guys. Please correct me if I'm wrong but did the OP state that he didn't need drawings because it was such a straight forward job? Big mistake!. If you can't present a set of approved working drawings to each contractor for quote purposes, you have no idea what each contractor is actually proposing and, if you engage anyone without drawings and specifications, you have absolutely no recourse over issues regarding the project scope. Also I believe the OP mentioned that the contractors let the lumber dealers do the "take off" for the materials. This is pretty common practice. You may do a materials list yourself based on material lengths or unit quantities that aren't popular or carried by a particular vendor, so there is a chance that stock lists and prices can vary considerably.

As far as finding guys in your county, Your concern should be the reputation and quality of the contractors you engage, no matter where they're located.

And not every contractor scopes out your situation and bases his quote on what he thinks he can stick you for. I have customers that are millionaires and customers that are just getting by and everyone pays the same, although the ones just getting by sometimes get charged a reduced labor rate if I can manage to sharpen the pencil a little for them.

I always read posts by the OP because he seems like a sharp and talented guy. but to all of you who have problems engaging a contractor you need to think about the type of vibe you're giving off to these guys. We contractors need to pay the bills like everyone else, want to work and typically don't approach a project as a one shot deal where we will never be seeing the customer again. So, it becomes a two way street, we may just not want to work for you and truthfully we just can't come out and tell you because you will just tell someone else and our name and reputation gets dinged for something we never even did.

As a fellow contractor I can relate to this post.
I often get asked to bid on design/ build projects. We no longer bid on design/build projects for the simple fact that there is not a criteria standard to bid from.
To the OP, what exactly are you trying to build?
If its a pole barn then you can go online and get an instant quote from several companies online. They wont google your property, look you up on Zillow, ect.
A reputable contractor uses a standard formula to estimate a job, your home, property values or posessions should be irrelevant. I wont deny that shady contractors do this. Reccomendations from others are always your best references.
Sorry for the rant but shady contractors make us reputable contractors look bad all the time

 

[back2class]

My quick take as a former licensed contractor. OP seems like a little bit **** guy. I could size up a client pretty fast...every thing in perfect order around property says it will be nitpicked. Never met a homeowner who could really understand the materials cost...never once were they figuring everything. My guess is they are sensing a slightly know it all attitude and noticing perfectionism. You may be a great guy, but that does not mean I want to work for you. If it was a job I didn't want, and it honestly sounds like a job I wouldn't want, price would go way up to the "hope I don't get the job" price. Reality is 1/2 the contractors on average that a customer calls won't return the call or deliver a quote in the end. Average customer calls between 2-4 contractors. Any contractor who shows up and is professional all the time has more work than he needs. The contractor is interviewing you as much as you are interviewing him. So if faced with what you sound like as a client, or a clueless guy who thinks I'm amazing because you can cut a board..who won't inspect your work every night so you have to explain everything for an hour a day.... Just a realty. I will go for the more pleasant job. It does not mean the work will be substandard, but reality is it will be a much more attractive job for me. We could debate this forever. Reality is there are three kinds of quotes...the low ones that are often going to lead to trouble. High ones where people are just highballing because they either don't want to work for you or simply know 1/3 of the time they will be the only quote. Lastly, middle quotes. That's were often you will find good contractors who want to work with you. Now, did I quote more when the clients home says they had plenty of money? Sort of. You can often assume they will have high standards, you don't have to worry about them not having enough to actually pay your price and you know they are not bound by necessity to go for the lowest price. So I would say on average my quotes were a little higher on those kinds of jobs. But I could read if they were willing to pay for what I was offering. As a clean cut college educated guy, as long as I was fair I would always get those jobs...right or wrong, that was a premium that they could and usually were willing to pay for. The job is what both parties agree it is worth. If I wanted it and felt I could and needed to compete on price I would. If I felt I could charge a premium without being unethical...I would. Perfect yard tells me that every shingle better line up perfectly and expect nitpicking...and for all the reasons above makes the price go up. One last hint...the best contractors are usually never cheap, but also pretty much never insanely expensive. They are the ones who keep busy constantly and don't need to make a killing on one job.

 

[67carl]

I think you could pick just about any profession and find good and bad. Some just skew more in one direction than the other... and ruin it for others. I've done the "call 8 contractors and only 4 bother to return the call and only 2 of those bother to show up" thing too many times. I finally found a contractor who;

1) does what he says he's going to do
2) does a good job
3) shows up when he said he would (well, same day if not within the "ballpark" of the time he said. Can't be too picky!
4) charges a fair price

It's at the point now where I don't bother getting (trying to get) other qoutes. I just ask him to fit me in when he has time. I had to wait a few months to start my master bath remodel because of his schedule. He came by Thursday night @ 7pm to look over the plumbing I need moved in my bathroom. After he left he had to go to another client to bid that job. He is so busy (because of #1 through #4 above) he has to turn away a lot of work. Honestly, I think my jobs would normally be too small for him but he does them because I am very appreciative and let him get to me when he can.

Seems to me if more contractors could manage 1-4 they would never run out of work.

 

[grandall4]

Per my contractor neighbor - "I give ridiculously high bids to the jobs I don't want"

 

[600SL]

Unfortunately contractors are generally lazy and un educated. They only work when they are hungry and because of there lack of professionalism a good job requires a middle man like Home Depot, Lowes, Sears etc to take on the responsibility of customer satisfaction.

Which is unfortunate because the contractors that work for these companies are generally pretty good but cant seem to put out a quality job on there own without mother big box store holding them to the fire for future contracts. Therefore the contractor ends up getting paid **** from the Franchise and the consumer ends up paying for both the contractor and the people to watch them work.

 

[JIMBETHYNAME2]

I would have to say that a good chunk of the higher quote you g o t would be rising prices of materials,especially lumber.
You cant use prices from a year ago, **** gets alit more expensive over a years time.
Btw, just reading what you wrote, I'd probly pad the estimate with a "******** charge", just by the way you talk down to people who you obviously think are below you.
People pick up on stuff like that, esp contractors

 

[Johnson]

My FIL is a contractor. Runs a very small crew consisting of him, his son and one other guy. Majority of his biz is repeat customers. He'll get calls all the time for jobs but has to turn them down or bid them very high b/c he can't or doesn't want to get to them. I used to think he should hire more guys and make more money. Then I realized he's making what he wants to make, doing jobs he wants to do and doesn't have a lot of stress.

 

[DonPowers]

You are not alone Kevin. The bigger good contractors around here that can manage the whole job are busy all the time and expensive. Most of the small guys do reasonably good work but tend to not be well organized and try to do three or four jobs at the same time, rather than finishing one before moving on to the next.

If you have the time, knowledge and inclination, be the project manager.

When building my garage, 32 x 48 two story, I set up an account with the local building supply and managed the various phases. Not only did I get a discount on the materials but free delivery.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I told the wife this morning that I actually believe the cars and the house is what kills us when it comes to hiring someone. With the landscaping the wife does around the house, her 20'x20' building, our house, my garage, we have had nothing but compliments on our place.

Years ago, when I was getting quotes for a new driveway, I got the exact same feeling. Prices were all over the place. One guy did not even bother to measure !

The guy I ave the business to so on the low end, but he recommended wire mesh be added and I agreed, so it added a few more bucks.