WTF is it with contractors in my county

[theoldwizard1]

A few years back, my son got a quote for a new roof. Complete tear off, include the plywood and install new insulation (no attic, so this really was the only way to do it). I reviewed the quote with him and asked if I could do a bit of negotiating withe the contractor.

I made up a list of about 10-12 items I wanted to make sure were done. The contractor agreed with all of them and only charged more for the upgrade from 7/16" OSB to 1/2" OSB. We both signed and retained copies of the addendum.

On the day of the job, I was the "sidewalk supervisor". It did not start off well because they tried to deliver 7/16" OSB which I refused. When the supervisor did arrive, I gave him a copy of the addendum. I had a camera hanging around my neck, so he knew I would be watching them closely. He reviewed it with his second in command, and the job went perfectly, despite me snapping a lot of pictures, including partially climbing the ladder to get pictures of them laying the insulation and installing the OSB.

 

[sberry]

Got a bud is a plumma,, gave him a deal with ********* and 50's hanging out of her pockets, doesn't even bother to call her back. Lots of pathetic contractors out there for sure.

 

[tymbo]

I work in the commercial millwork industry, and drawings are absolutely necessary to avoid problems down the line. I start with architectural drawings and specs and a scope that includes what we bid on. In 90% of the jobs I come across, the archs are so vague that I wonder how we were even able to bid off the damn things!. Now my job is to create shop drawings of what we are actually going to build and send it to the GC /architects/owners for approval. Invariably they come back as redlines with changes/details that were never in the original archs. Now our project manager and estimator get to go back and try to get more money for these "adds". When the new upcharges are added, the owners freak out and now it is MY job to redesign the fricking job to work within the budget. I resubmit the drawings, and we start all over again!

I just love it when in the course of this process, the architects will try to throw in a change for a special hinge or piece of hardware that is 5x the cost of the original specified! Sometimes they want something that is physically IMPOSSIBLE to build as shown, and we have to explain why, and provide an alternative(s).

This process continues for sometimes months, until we FINALLY get an approved set of shop drawings. Now, we have to work around field dimensions, which rarely match up with expected. This sometimes requires re engineering things to fit the space. Revise the shop drawings showing field dimensions and resubmit. Rinse and repeat.

Eventually the job gets built/installed and someone still is surprised that "oh, that was not our intent!" so even with approved drawings they will go back to the original architectural drawings and point to how what we gave them was different!

Bottom line, I wouldn't build a dog house without detailed drawings and specs, so every one knows what is expected. The more detailed the drawings, the easier you make it to bid on the job, and you know your bids are apples to apples.

Tim

 

[pablo94sc]

I think it's the lack of professionalism that the OP is most upset about. We're all picky about our stuff and want it done right. The attitude I'm seeing that if a customer is **** you're going to bid a job high is indicative of the problem the OP pointed out. Anyone, in any trade, who is worth a damn is going to be prideful of their work and want to do the best possible. Sure there are some assholes who are never satisfied, but knowing I pleased a person who is **** means a did a damn good job, and those are the people I liked to work for because in the end, they are the first people to tout your workmanship when asked.

Side note, if you don't want a job or have time to do it say so. When did saying no become a bad thing? This high bidding stuff is stuff high school kids would do.

 

[CNGsaves]

+1 to have DETAILED drawings so you'll have in writing what is expected.

Part of run-a-round is nebulous outcome that might be left up to opinion of General Contractor. Surely, you do NOT want the GC to be deciding on what materials and quality is put into the job.

Apples to apples quotes will be possible with detailed drawings/specs. Good luck.

 

[akdiesel]

Kevin

I did not read all the responses but I have to comment again.
Does the addition to your house or d'état he'd shop build need to be done in a certain time frame?
If not then contact out the cement work and put in you own drains, electrical conduit, and water lines if needed. Those items are not that difficult to deal with, with a little research like this site can offer.
Then put some walls up with some friends. The roof and siding may take a bit more work and require a second contractor for that specific work.
But as someone mentioned try and do job specif contacting. You will be acting as the GC but it may be more manageable in small bites and you will be able to see the work as it goes on and conduct it.
I had a GC do some concrete patio work and he never came out to the work site, but the concrete installer did the forms and I ran my glycol and gas lines till he was ready. He payed and stamped the concrete as I watched and helped to learn more about it as well.
This was the same GC I had issues with and not his subcontractors. The workers I rescpect and treat them with drinks and donuts if needed.

 

[Lootenny]

Per my contractor neighbor - "I give ridiculously high bids to the jobs I don't want"

This.

I'm putting up a pole barn, 30 X 56 with a 10' lean to on one side, on land that slopes 1' side to side, and 3' front to back. I asked for estimates from four excavators to fill and level the site. 3 actually returned my call and came out and shot elevations with a laser, and said they'd get back to me.

I heard from the first guy right on the timetable he said to expect to hear from him. $23,600! Took my breath away, and I thought "there goes putting up a garage. Makes more sense to move to another house that already has a pole barn if this is what it costs just to level the site!"

I finally heard back from one of the others, and he came in at $4535.

Guess which guy wants the job, and which guy doesn't? When I was audibly relieved to hear this over the phone, he said "yeah, your wife said you had another bid that was really high. A lot of guys bid jobs high when they don't want them. I hate that, just tell them you don't have time and don't want the job!"

Everything I've ever had done, whether putting in a generator or resealing the driveway, I get three bids. Sure as ****, two will be pretty close and one will be stupid high (though the high bid being 5X higher does set a new record!)

Just seems to be the nature of things.

 

[PugetDude]

I think it's the lack of professionalism that the OP is most upset about. Side note, if you don't want a job or have time to do it say so. When did saying no become a bad thing? This high bidding stuff is stuff high school kids would do.

Another problem is that even if you do hire them, they fiddle, fart, and **** around because it isn't a job they wanted to do in the first place.

 

[Jinks]

Kevin, I get a kick out of the "contractors" here that always jump in to tell you what you're doing wrong as a customer. Yeah, there are difficult customers & there are ignorant customers. A good business man knows that & learns to live with it. It's not an excuse to jack up prices or treat people badly.

I have problems similar to yours. We stumbled into a home on a "prestige" street, lots of doctors, professionals, etc. We've done a good job of remodeling, landscaping, etc. For the last few years most of the contractors I've talked to have reacted the same as the ones you are complaining about. I even had one tell me to my face "everyone that lives on this street are millionaires, so we charge appropriately. I told him that was probably a bad idea even if he was right. People don't become millionaires by giving money away...

Like you, I find it a pain, but until I know a contractor I source all the material for a job, write out a description of the work I want done & tell the contractor I will have the material on site for them. They quote me the price for the work only. The contract includes start & finish dates. If they hesitate about performance we discuss weather or "reasonable" delays or they are sent packing. It's a PITA, but I keep a file on good contractors. They get more of my money & become easier to work with each time. Keep at it, it's worth it in the long run.

 

[Jazzman442]

Dont Dont Dont use a Contractor that will not meet his own time table. It is 10 times worse when they start your job. I was in the same boat when i wanted a new house. Same thing happened to me. So I drew my own planes had a friend engineer them and I did it my self. the Actual contractors IE electrical, Masonry will do a great job for you and even will keep their time table. it has been my experience to do that any time I need something. In the End I saved a ton of Money and aggravation.

I will always do that. I have not had a bad experience with me being the Contractor. Now if you do not know anything about building that might be an issue but since you are on this Forum I bet you do.

Good Luck

 

[J king]

I don't know the op but sense that he is appearing to be **** about what and how he wants things.he may have pissed and moaned about this guy or that guy and caused fear that he is hard to work for. I never had a problem hiring work done...if you look like you will be a pain then they will not want to be there.

 

[ZRX61]

I spent TWO YEARS trying to get a quote for some concrete work, about 9 yards so an entire truck full. The ONE putz that did show up said he planned on mixing diesel with concrete to make it easier to work or some such **** "& the smell should go away after a few years".. Came close to feeding that guy to my wolves.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Dont Dont Dont use a Contractor that will not meet his own time table.

I put a "performance clause" in an amendment to a contract for landscaping work. Start and finish dates were provided by the contractor. I padded the end date by a couple of days and then added "penalty of $50/day past completion date, unless mutually agreed upon !"

He did run over. No penalty.

 

[SALIV8]

I felt like I was chasing a couple contractors for just a written estimate when I had my shop built. As soon as I think they are flakes, onto the next one.

I did have a to scale drawing showing everything and a list of every single thing I wanted, pages long, to send the builders for a quote.

When you find your GC you will know it.

If all else fails, and no personal recommendations come to fruition, I'd search builders and your zip code in yelp.com

 

[Kevin54]

I personally wouldn't go anywhere near this job.

1 post and no explanation. C'mon man, spill your guts. BTW....welcoe to Garage Journal

As a fellow contractor I can relate to this post.
I often get asked to bid on design/ build projects. We no longer bid on design/build projects for the simple fact that there is not a criteria standard to bid from.
To the OP, what exactly are you trying to build?If its a pole barn then you can go online and get an instant quote from several companies online. They wont google your property, look you up on Zillow, ect.
A reputable contractor uses a standard formula to estimate a job, your home, property values or posessions should be irrelevant. I wont deny that shady contractors do this. Reccomendations from others are always your best references.
Sorry for the rant but shady contractors make us reputable contractors look bad all the time

What I want is a 28' x 36' garage addition, on block foundation, and a 7'x24' bumpout.

My quick take as a former licensed contractor. OP seems like a little bit **** guy. I could size up a client pretty fast...every thing in perfect order around property says it will be nitpicked. Never met a homeowner who could really understand the materials cost...never once were they figuring everything. My guess is they are sensing a slightly know it all attitude and noticing perfectionism. .

See....now I have to call ******** on that. **** about things.......Possibly. But who doesn't want a decent job done on a build? 100% ****.......NO. As far as knowing material cost......yes, I know what materials cost. I know what they cost then, and I know what they cost today. I know where to get materials other than the box stores. I used to do remodeling and construction. I built my family room (24x24), I built my garage (28x36), and I built my wife's building (20x20) that is fully finished off inside. I've sided houses, I've remodeled stores in my hometown. I was **** about my work because I knew my customers wanted the best bang for their buck. I came highly recommended to many just by word of mouth, and never was a person dissatisfied with my work, or my work ethics. I've been a toolmaker for 34 years also, and became lead toolmaker because of my work. When I built my other garage before this one, I drew up my own plans. When I built my family room, I drew up my own plans. So I do have an idea what is going on. And if you don't want the job, why go to the effort of quoting in the first place, unless you think you can quote high and get a sucker on the end of your line to pay a stupid cost. If that were the case, then I wouldn't want you doing work FOR me.

Kevin

I did not read all the responses but I have to comment again.
Does the addition to your house or d'état he'd shop build need to be done in a certain time frame?.

I actually DO have a timeframe.......before the snow flies again I would like to have it done before the end of summer, and started before every other contractor says they are too busy because I waited too long. And no drains, no electrical, no insulation. That is all later.

I spent TWO YEARS trying to get a quote for some concrete work, about 9 yards so an entire truck full. The ONE putz that did show up said he planned on mixing diesel with concrete to make it easier to work or some such **** "& the smell should go away after a few years".. Came close to feeding that guy to my wolves.

All we have is Coyotes, but they need to feed on the dumbasses around here.

Now....because I say that the ones around here are dumbasses, that is in no way a reflection on the contractors above that things I'm a dumb sumbitch that knows nothing about construction, pricing, and materials. The garage is a simple straight forward, 3 wall addition, and a three wall bumpout. The bumpout itself could not be any more straightforward. It is 7' x 24' with 8' ceilings, and 2x6 studs. No windows, no doors, and 4 trusses added below my existing trusses on the gable end. Cost after the foundation is in......C'mon you contractors, give me an idea of cost. The other is a 28' x 36' addition out the front of my garage. 2x6 studs, 10' walls. Figure that. And it will have 2 windows, 1 entrance door, and two 10'x8' tall garage doors. And a new roof over the complete garage. It's not rocket science. But some want to say I'm ****, some say that they wouldn't even quote or want to do it. I can't even get a quote to put just the concrete work in. I haven't been demanding at all. Framing could be done in less than a week if someone was willing to work. I can supply drawings if need be, but a GOOD contractor should be able to make up a few sketches in no time. If a Contractor needs detailed drawings for something as simple as three walls, then I'd say that he is blowing smoke up someone's *** at the cost to the customer of a few thousand on his padded bill. And I know how it is, everyone is going to defend their profession and title. And that is all well and fine. But to say you can tell what sort of customer I am, and that you wouldn't bid on a job because of you so called precognition of me, I'll call ******** on that also.

And if some had read above, the last contractor had already told me that the figures he had was $31-$32,000 and all he had to do was write things up on the quote. Then it turns to $52,000. And of the 4 Contractors I have spoke with, I just found out that three of them have no credit with lumberyards, or concrete companies. And I also do a little research on the ones that I ask to give me a quote. I want to see what they have done previously, plus I look into other aspects of things like where they live, what does their place look like, and so on. ****.....my wife is retired and 69 years old, I'm on disability at 59 years old, and being on a limited income, you have to watch where you spend the money. 2 contractors told me that is was going to be $32,000, then it jumps to the $50,000 mark.

And any contractor that doesn't have credit anywhere, or whines to me about money problems before handing me a quote, that is a red flag in my mind, and should be to others wanting something done.

NOW.......on the other hand......On the way home today from doing a good deed for a fellow member, I had a phone call from Contractor #5. He is my concrete guy that I used extensively before for our concrete work when I built the wifes building, and the sidewalks around the house. His price complete, for just the concrete is $8650. That is with 4' of block out the ground for the main addition, but he has to refigure for less block for the bumpout as it will only be 1 block out of the ground. And for the contractors that thing I don't know materials, once he figured the lesser block on the bumpout, his number of block and my number of block was only about 10 off from one another. Not bad for me being a dummy. So I take what I figured for materials, deduct that cost, and that still leaves around $10,000 for wood and shingles. Labor for the wood.....I figure $15,000, so that brings the price in about $35,000 which I am good with.

If I was totally dumb to everything, like some people are, then I would be taken advantage of. Research pays off, and more people should do it. Like I said, I should have went out of town in the first place to find someone, but I like to help people in my own community. Evidently with no credit, they really don't need the money anyways. And if I was capable physically of doing the building myself, I would do it, and that is what pisses me off. I can't do it now. If I could round up enough members to do a building blitz, I'd make it worth everyone worthwhile for a day or two. I'd have the materials here, and pay each one, plus we'd have steaks on the grille and brewskies. But you can't even get a group together, and I'm totally fine with that. I just don't want to be screwed over, like a couple of them has tried.

 

[rharman]

An old fashioned barn raising. That would be awesome Kevin. If I was in Ohio, you could count me in but I'm on the west (best) coast.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If I was totally dumb to everything, like some people are, then I would be taken advantage of. Research pays off, and more people should do it. Like I said, I should have went out of town in the first place to find someone, but I like to help people in my own community. Evidently with no credit, they really don't need the money anyways. And if I was capable physically of doing the building myself, I would do it, and that is what pisses me off. I can't do it now. If I could round up enough members to do a building blitz, I'd make it worth everyone worthwhile for a day or two. I'd have the materials here, and pay each one, plus we'd have steaks on the grille and brewskies. But you can't even get a group together, and I'm totally fine with that. I just don't want to be screwed over, like a couple of them has tried.

Kevin, if we lived closer together, we could get it done.

 

[CTyankee]

Lots of bashing in this thread. Even being in the field, I don't see or hear about the rampant unscrupulous actions mentioned here in my area. Maybe it's a regional thing.

Good thing Lotek isn't a building contractor....

Now if you want to talk about shoddy workmanship...I'll be glad to pile on..

 

[sberry]

While I think a lot of contractor performance is pathetic I also think its within their right to size up the neighborhood and charge what they want, I am all for sticking it to some lawyers and a whole lot of this professional class that seems well entitled to do it to you and you want to live in the same neighbor hood its tuff ****.

 

[reader2580]

I got a rough estimate to build a custom house from a builder and his rough estimate came in at $230,000. That was way more than I could afford. He offered to actually bid the job and it came in around $180,000. (I already had blueprints drawn up to bid from.) A $50,000 drop is pretty good. Ultimately, I didn't build a house because I couldn't find an affordable lot in the right location. The builder did end up renovating a foreclosed house for me and it is like new now.

I'm looking at getting a 40x50 garage built with 16 foot sidewalls. I don't have any plans and three garage builders bid it over the phone and all were within a few thousand of each other. They have all built enough garages in the area to know what permits cost and what excavation normally involves. Price could go up if more excavation or concrete is required. They have never met me or seen my house so they have no idea what I own. Zillow doesn't have up to date pricing or aerial photos of the house.

 

[bgarrett]

Kevin keeps saying the same thing in every post on this thread. I have heard it from a friend who went to Arkansas to have a house built to live in and another friend in Texas who is on the job doing sheetmetal work. No matter where you go, no one keeps their promise, no one wants to work..

 

[ssdave]

When I add up the square footage and use unit costs that I would expect to pay, I come up with a total of $50,120 for a turn key job, average conditions, good quality.

That number could go up depending on the site, permits, tie in to existing stuff, contractor availability in your area, wage rates, etc. It could go down a bit if contractors are hungry and looking for work. So, I don't see that the costs you've been quoted are all that much out of line for a turn key job, general contractor assuming all risks, etc.

Now, that doesn't say that you can't get a better price. Some approaches you might take to do so are:

1) Act as your own general contractor, and assume all the risks. Carry general insurance to cover the job, materials, and and umbrella liability clause that also covers your subs. Establish workmans comp account with the State, and pay workmans comp on all subs that cannot show that they carry and pay their own. You will have to pay on all self-employed subs.
2) Get and pay for permits yourself, and coordinate all required inspections.
3) Establish accounts to pay for concrete, tool rentals, lumber, hardware, materials so that you can hire subs without the financing or accounts to do so.
4) Be flexible on your time so subs can fit you in as "fill in" work.
5) Provide all on site services such as porta-potty, dumpster, erosion control, water, electricity.
6) Draw up plans yourself, and subcontractor contracts clearly detailing what they are responsible for. As GC, pickup all the extra costs or work yourself for items that are left out or not coordinated well between the different sub contracts. This is a big part of the risk/service a GC provides.
7) Pick up the garbage and clean up the job daily, and between subs, make the site ready for the next guy. Again, this is a big part of what the GC provides.
8) If your subs have doubts on payment, set up an escrow account to pay and build this into your sub contracts.
9) Handle the work of getting supplier lien releases from all suppliers that have provided services or materials to your subs. Get the subs to sign lien releases before payment.
10) Make partial payment to subs on a schedule of items you make out ahead of time and include in their contracts. This helps low financial capability guys fund the work of your job, and can get you lower sub bids.

If you do most or all of these things, you may get the price down to the $35,000 range you're looking for. That's $24 per square foot, really on the low end for a quality job on a completed shell of a garage with foundation and floor, ready for you to do the interior and finish work. The only way I see you getting it down to this level without doing the GC yourself and assuming most of the risks is to hire a small, on the way up, guy that can do most if not all of the work himself. If he's working mostly for wages, his price might approach what you would like it to be. What you get in this case, though is the risk that he won't be able to complete, or be able to complete on your time schedule, or that the workmanship might not be quite up to what you would like it to be.

 

[back2class]

Like you, I find it a pain, but until I know a contractor I source all the material for a job, write out a description of the work I want done & tell the contractor I will have the material on site for them. They quote me the price for the work only. The contract includes start & finish dates. If they hesitate about performance we discuss weather or "reasonable" delays or they are sent packing. It's a PITA, but I keep a file on good contractors. They get more of my money & become easier to work with each time. Keep at it, it's worth it in the long run.

I think this is terrible advice. As a contractor, a few times early in the game I tried this. Customer never knew what they really needed to get, got the wrong thing, the cheapest version that would take my 5x longer to make look decent if at all possible. Also caused the final bill to be a mess. Most any quality professional contractor will avoid this mess. Your guys just looking to make some rent and beer money will be all over it. Guess it depends what your definition of "contractor is". Also, another posters called BS about homeowners knowing materials costs. Maybe you are that rare one, but they will never figure fasteners, fuel, chemicals, and the little things that can add up fast. Even when I was doing it full time, I would miss a few of these things when crunching numbers. Always added 15% to my materials figure for myself for the missed and unexpecteds. To address all the complaints about high quotes......never did I give a quote that was 6x what was fair, but if I have spent my time going out the bid a job as a biz man I had to ask myself if I wanted this job? If I did not, at what price point would I want it? Only a fool would 100% surely waste their time with returning no bid. Only ones that got no bid were ones that I knew in advance would come out badly no matter what....bad ideas by homeowners.
One non-customer I remember not returning a bid on tough. Woman wanted a new kitchen floor and some painting. She thought I was taking advantage of her because some hack who was there before me was going to do the cheap and improper way. Questioned me on everything I said. Kept mentioning how "fine" her home and neighborhood were like as a lowly contractor, it was had for me to understand. So when I left, it was nice to go to my much finer home in a better neighborhood. She called a few days later and left me a lecturing message about not being professional in failing to follow up. Needless to say, she either got a absolute hack job or a 6x street price job. No way any quality professional would have done for any less than pain and suffering wages. What she was unable to see was the fact I did not want to work for her. Nobody thinks they are awful...even when they are.

 

[ssdave]

Kevin keeps saying the same thing in every post on this thread. I have heard it from a friend who went to Arkansas to have a house built to live in and another friend in Texas who is on the job doing sheetmetal work. No matter where you go, no one keeps their promise, no one wants to work..

I think that this last statement is absolutely, blatently false.

Here's how I would rephrase it truthfully, to read between the lines and state what I have heard from the posters repeating this theme:

"Nobody wants to work on the time schedule I want, at the quality level I want, for the price I would like to pay."

Pretty much anywhere you go, there are numerous contractors with excellent reputations, that are busy all the time, building high quality projects, for satisfied owners. What you do not see those contractors doing is delivering half price quotes on garages to clients that express from the beginning of the project that they may be difficult to work with. The reason: They don't need to. They have a full plate with first class, full pay clients that will be happy with their work when it is completed.

A major reason that the second tier contractors have a hard time with delivery, is that the first tier contractors, who are dependable and pay well, have all the good subs ******* on their jobs. Even if the second tier GC's want to pay full price, the subs can't schedule it in because they give priority to the first tier.

It makes it a challenge for a guy who wants to do some of the work himself, wants high quality work equal to or better what he can do himself, for a bargain price. Ultimately, most of those guys have to do most of the work themselves to get what they want, or give up and pay what they think is an outrageous cost.

A major factor in all this complaint about delivery and cost is that the lower tier subs are there for a reason: They don't have the skills, particularly business skills to be an upper tier contractor (yet). One of the biggest mistakes they make is giving an off-the-cuff quote "Should be about $30,000". When they get sub quotes, materials takeoffs, and calculate their portion, they find out that their $30,000 job really is a $50,000 job. Yet the client, who didn't have a good grasp of the project cost to start with, has fixed their budget on that poorly thought out initial guess.

Another factor is what others have brought up: the Richard Cabeza factor. I, being the clean cut, well educated fellow that I am think of this as a risk factor instead. The guy that has a perfectly kept house, in a top quality neighborhood, and tells you how he built it all up himself to high quality for cheap is high risk. He has no plans or specs for what he wants, just wants an "average" garage. His average may be way beyond the gold plated, government spec standard. Without plans, how can you tell? How are you going to define what quality you bid on and make this stick, while getting paid for extras beyond your bid without going to court? His neighborhood likely has covenants, again, not in the plans and specs. The block foundation might have to be parsed. The siding might have to be something special. The required roofing probably is expensive, as are the windows and doors. There may be a requirement that dumpsters aren't visible from the street. Mud tracked onto the street may have to be cleaned up. There may be 8-5 work requirements, and not on weekends. Contractor parking on the street might not be allowed. Trucks for deliveries might be limited. The neighbors will surely complain about your dog, your speakers blasting out Rush Limbaugh, and about roofing bundle papers blowing into their yard. The lady next door will probably be over several times to complain about how your workers look or talk. Any cracks in their foundations will have been caused by vibration from you compacting the gravel under the garage slab. Then, there's the sense of entitlement: your dumpster will get lawn trimmings and an old couch in it, and of course no-one will know where they came from and want to pay. When there's a small flaw or some hairline cracks in the floor slab, you'll be expected to contribute an epoxy flake finish to compensate. No finish work is wanted, but someone has to install the sheetrock under the garage door that you are expected to install, and somehow you have to get in the mounts, controls and wiring for the garage door, without any electrical done or sheetrock or other finish work completed that needs to be under those items. All these items add up to additional time, irritation and costs, and no-one else is going to pay them except the GC.

 

[finn]

It is unprofessional to not respond for a quote request, in my opinion.

If you don't want to provide a quote from a potential customer, why not a simple phone call or email stating that you decline?

I don't think you need to provide a reason, other than you don't feel the job is a good fit for your business. No need to quote an outrageous amount to send a cryptic message. Why leave the customer hanging?

 

[bgarrett]

I think that this last statement is absolutely, blatently false.

Here's how I would rephrase it truthfully, to read between the lines and state what I have heard from the posters repeating this theme:

"Nobody wants to work on the time schedule I want, at the quality level I want, for the price I would like to pay."

I dont hire contractors.
What my friends tell me is that you cant get anyone to show up! Contractors wont return calls, when they do, they dont come out, when they do, its not when they said they would be there. When they agree to take a job, they dont return as promised and if you actually get as far as doing work, they wont come back to correct the errors. I dont know. I dont hire contractors. I do hear a awful lot of these stories from people who live hundreds of miles apart. There MUST be good contractors but those are not the stories I hear.

An example: A friend got a house built and central air installed. He paid the A/C guy. A week later, the A/C stopped cooling. A call to the A/C guy resulted in a promise to come out, but he didnt then he wouldnt answer the phone or return calls after that. After 3 weeks of calls the A/C guy came back and found a pinhole in the freon line he had installed.
The plumber promised to come on Monday. My friend said he should have asked which Monday. A month later the plumber showed up but the weather had gotten so bad everything had to be postponed until next spring. An unnecessary delay of MONTHS.

 

[bgarrett]

It is unprofessional to not respond for a quote request, in my opinion.

If you don't want to provide a quote from a potential customer, why not a simple phone call or email stating that you decline?

I don't think you need to provide a reason, other than you don't feel the job is a good fit for your business. No need to quote an outrageous amount to send a cryptic message. Why leave the customer hanging?

This!
I called a roofing company for an estimate. They never called back. I called a second then a third. No responses so I called the third back and she told me they didnt want the job because it was 'hard' and they had plenty of easy jobs.
I did the roof myself.

 

[redsand187]

Why don't contractors build a flat-rate labor guide? Even internally? I kick around business plans for fun. One was a high service general contracting company. Flat rate pricing for each individual task. You need a door hung, find out what it actually takes time wise, create a flat rate for it. So say 1.5 hours. You have 10 doors in the house that needs to be done? Invoice is at:

QTY 10 Door install time 1.5 total time 15.0 labor rate $80, total cost $1200.00
QTY 1 Toilet install tine 1.0 total time 1.0 labor rate $80 total cost $80.00

ECT....

You then add up the materials costs. You put together a percentage contingency fund based on the construction type, new construction maybe 7.5% 20 year old remodel, maybe 10% 20+ year remodel 15%... or whatever.

Your labor rate includes your standard overhead. So you just bill hours like a mechanic does. You charge cost on materials, if you have a margin on it, then price in addition to the materials. Let them know you are charging them 10% for running around and getting the stuff, storing it, making sure it's right, returning the defective stuff or inevitably wrong stuff.

Then of course explain that if unexpected costs arise they will have to be addressed at that time.

Also another little thing that would be very impressive in my mind is uniforms... really just standard carharts pants and a company t-shirt that is free of stains or tears, and company jackets for the cold times. You're going to impress the hell out of customers.

You'd probably have more work then you'd know what to do with, and be able to charge a premium. Tell customer's straight up, I will probably be your highest bid, but you will get the best job with the least amount of hassles possible.

I know I'd pay 20% more for my recent bathroom remodels if they would have been completed before thanksgiving as initially planned, rather than after Christmas, with guys who didn't look like they were just out on the corner begging for change doing the work.

 

[PelicanPines]

All I can say... everybody with a magnetic sign on their truck thinks they can get rich quick. Do as little actual work as possible and don't care at all about the quality of their work.

 

[ca90ss]

I dont hire contractors.
What my friends tell me is that you cant get anyone to show up! Contractors wont return calls, when they do, they dont come out, when they do, its not when they said they would be there. When they agree to take a job, they dont return as promised and if you actually get as far as doing work, they wont come back to correct the errors. I dont know. I dont hire contractors. I do hear a awful lot of these stories from people who live hundreds of miles apart. There MUST be good contractors but those are not the stories I hear.

If someone has a good experience they may tell one or two people about it, if they have a bad experience they will tell everyone they ever met about it. That's why you're always hearing about the bad contractor/mechanic/cop/whoever else and rarely hear about the good ones. People will take any chance they get to ***** about whatever they can.

 

[Kevin54]

This!
I called a roofing company for an estimate. They never called back. I called a second then a third. No responses so I called the third back and she told me they didnt want the job because it was 'hard' and they had plenty of easy jobs.
I did the roof myself.

All I can say... everybody with a magnetic sign on their truck thinks they can get rich quick. Do as little actual work as possible and don't care at all about the quality of their work.

^^^This and this^^^

That is exactly how things run in my county to a "T"

And NUTTS.......I wish you WERE closer. I have seen the pics of what you have done yourself. If you had hired it, it would have been three to four times as much.

When I tell what I want, all I here is that the job is a piece of cake, straightforward, nothing major, or of any concern, but all of a sudden, when they slip a paper to you, they talk about how big of a job it is, and you'd think they were tackling a multi-million dollar home. I actually think work around here scares some of them. I'm going to go with my concrete guy and his helpers.

I'd like to know though from ones that think I'm full of ****, and don't know how to figure block, how to figure footers, how to figure concrete, and especially how to figure lumber, what you would charge for a 7'x24'x8' ceiling height, what just that portion would cost. I could have it figured in an hour. The larger addition would take a couple of hours to figure. As far as permits....$40.00. That is for the county. For a building permit $35 if a sketch is approved. Notice I said sketch, and not an architectural set of plans. And some of the responding contractors need to realize that different counties, municipalities, and states, have different rules regarding the permit process. My family room, when I built it, it was less than $100 in permits. I didn't even need an electrical permit, but I did have to have an inspection, which everything passed all except my grounds. I needed the newer Green wire nuts that lets a pigtail come out of it. The building inspector actually though I was a contractor. That gave me a proud feeling. And I can show you any pics of anything that I have built.

And yes, I brag on what I have done, because I am proud of what I have done. the wife and I worked hard for what we have, then life got in the way that changed situations. Now I'm no longer able to do what I used to be able to do. I could build the walls, but then there is still the problem of finding someone to stand them up. I can't work on roofs anymore because I have lost my sense of balance. I would give my left nut to be able to build it myself, and get started.

My concrete guy won't be back from Florida until the 30th of this month, but he bid me a rock solid price over the phone. Others around here, can't get back to you in 4-6 months if ever. My concrete guy had my quote in a week.

His helper who does the construction side is in D.C. at the moment, but he will be back the first week in May. But the both of them are going to get the final quote for the structure. I'm almost positive that I know what the quote will be based on what I figured. The only things that varies is the labor cost.

NUTTS......If you had mentioned that before, I would have put you up in a B&B for a week at my expense, and we could have knock the majority of things out once the foundation was put in.

 

[PelicanPines]

Is a good contractor a con artist?

First you have to find a good contractor. And a good one would never be a con artist they are supposed to be a construction artist.

 

[PelicanPines]

* duplicate post... my back button had a beer *

 

[Hootbro]

There was a local woman here about 10 years ago who hired a contractor to build an addition onto her house and to remodel the bathroom. He insisted that she pay for all materials and labor upfront, so she did. Like $25,000. He shows up the next day with a brand new pickup, tears out a wall and then disappears, never to be seen from again. Her neighbors had to come over and staple up plastic to keep the rain out.

She didn't even know his real name (he lied about his name), and she never asked to see his contracting license (which all reputable GC's will carry around with them to show prospective customers). She had decided to use him because he was the cheapest.

Almost sounds like a "Irish Travellers" scam with that lady.

 

[reader2580]

I had a pretty good experience with the contractor who remodeled my house from top to bottom. The biggest issue was waiting for materials. The windows and siding all had to be ordered and took longer than planned. He expected the job to take eight weeks and it took about 10 weeks. A number of my new neighbors were impressed by how fast the contractor got the job done.

The contractor let me do as much work as I wanted to do without slowing him down. My father and I did all the demo work except removing the siding and windows. I did all the electrical work which was rewiring half the house. I also did all the drywall repair, paint, and replaced the kitchen cabinets. I never slowed down the contractor because there were weeks he didn't show up at all waiting for materials.

The only real issue I had was my own fault. I should have written certain materials into the contract. He used really cheap Menards house brand exterior doors. They are a lot better than the old doors, but I would have spent more for better had I known. The rest of the materials were top notch including Andersen 400 series windows and Smartside siding. He also redid the main bath with good materials.

 

[rslaback]

This!
I called a roofing company for an estimate. They never called back. I called a second then a third. No responses so I called the third back and she told me they didnt want the job because it was 'hard' and they had plenty of easy jobs.
I did the roof myself.

Do you blame them? I think a lot of people get stuck on the retail mentality. If you walk into a store and want to buy X product, the cashier will sell it to you if you have Y dollars. When you are talking about service work like construction this is not usually the case. You have to want the contractor to work for you but the contractor has to also want to do the work for you.

If business is good for a contractor and they can keep busy and make their money doing easier jobs, be that clients, heights, straight-forwardness, whatever, why on Earth would you expect them to take a difficult job simply because you have the money to pay for it. Why expect them to turn down easier work to take on your harder job when the financial reward for them is the same?

It might not be fair that no one wants to do the job for you but life isn't either.

 

[MagKarl]

You can't expect to get top notch work from a guy that doesn't believe he's making top rate pay to do the job for you. There is easier money to make elsewhere.

 

[Kevin54]

You can't expect to get top notch work from a guy that doesn't believe he's making top rate pay to do the job for you. There is easier money to make elsewhere.

That gate can swing both ways. We've had many contractors in our area fold up because of their halfass work, but they charged top pay. Some shouldn't even have been allowed to own a hammer.

And I've seen some that have given super low prices, and did top quality work. It all depends on the individual. People tend to steer towards a higher priced quote because they think they will get a better job done. I hired a guy to finish off a ceiling in my family room to match the rest of the house. He said it would be no problem to stomp it. Biggest mistake I ever made. Plus he mixed his compound with paint to thin it. I could have hired a drunk monkey and got a better job, and had entertainment watching him I put up with the ceiling for a number of years. Then we had a roof leak and some damaged drywall. Plus when the guy hung the drywall on the ceiling, he ran it the wrong direction, so it sagged between the rafters.

I finally found the person who originally had done all of the drywall work on the house, and have used him quite a few times. Very reasonably priced, very highly recommended by all. To put a new ceiling in, laser flat, and stomped and knocked down was $1000 even for a 24' x 24' area, plus building down for the cold air returns, and pulling and replacing the ceiling fans. Absolutely top notch work. After the ceiling was done, I hired the painter that I hired that did my parents house. To paint the complete room, everything taped off, done in 4 hours was $80. We had the paint.

So the painter and the drywall guy are my go-to's for that sort of work. I'll never hang drywall again, as long as my drywall guy is around. And painting.....it's easier to just pay someone like my painter to do it than it is for me to have to mess around with the mess. They both are busy everyday. And in turn for their superb work, I have recommended them to many people and they have gained a lot of extra work because of it.

 

[58Yeoman]

This!
I called a roofing company for an estimate. They never called back. I called a second then a third. No responses so I called the third back and she told me they didnt want the job because it was 'hard' and they had plenty of easy jobs.
I did the roof myself.

I can see this happening a lot in the future with all the new houses being built now with a 100 tiny little peaks on the roof. All that does is up the price and provide more opportunity for more leaks. Same way with all the bump-outs on the walls.

 

[Kevin54]

I can see this happening a lot in the future with all the new houses being built now with a 100 tiny little peaks on the roof. All that does is up the price and provide more opportunity for more leaks. Same way with all the bump-outs on the walls.

I can see the roofing, but properly done, a bumpout's only downfall is whether it is properly flashed or not.

I was up to Ratdoggy's place yesterday, and we drove past a house that probably had 20 different roof peaks on it. I can see a leak happening sometime. Heck....I worry about a valley in a roof as not everyone can put in a proper valley.