Just received my first Mac Tool items. Have a big collection of Snap On, Matco, Proto, PB Swiss, Wera, Hazet, etc. All the big names. I was shocked when every single item I bought had “Made in Taiwan” or “Made in China”. My $180 ratchet had the glorious “Made in USA with global materials”. Now I know I might come off as whining but it’s ridiculous that Mac is charging American/German pricing but delivering Taiwanese and Chinese products. Sorry for the rant but I was under the impression Mac made most of their products in the US. Here’s a few photos of the packaging;
WTH Mac Tools
- Thread starter Rickkyyr8
- Start date
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Tekton has a $20 made in 'murica pick set... They' re pretty nice
www.tekton.com
5-Piece Pick and Hook Set | TEKTON | Made in USA
Set includes straight pick, 45-degree bent pick, 90-degree bent pick, 90-degree hook, and 130-degree hook. PNH90101.
I was going to buy that but I have so many picks now hahaTekton has a $20 made in 'murica pick set... They' re pretty nice
5-Piece Pick and Hook Set | TEKTON | Made in USA
Set includes straight pick, 45-degree bent pick, 90-degree bent pick, 90-degree hook, and 130-degree hook. PNH90101.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
OK. Take a deep breath. This is nothing new. MAC Tools has a lot of US made products but, as part of the Stanley, Black, & Decker tool empire they have many items made overseas too. I'm assuming you bought a locking flex head axis ratchet since, there was no part number mentioned. The picks have been made overseas for quite awhile now. I really wouldn't expect a hand soap dispenser to be US made nor, do I consider that a tool.
WWheeler
Well-known member
FWIW Snap-on's hand soap dispenser is made in Ireland
And it costs twice as much as MAC's.
And it costs twice as much as MAC's.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
does it come with Irish Spring?
KnurledNut
Well-known member
@Rickkyyr8
Man that stinks about the picks! I didnt realize those went offshore.
Those and the first gen soft grip Snap-on are my favorite.
What a bummer.
Still kickin’ in memory of MAC USA:
Man that stinks about the picks! I didnt realize those went offshore.
Those and the first gen soft grip Snap-on are my favorite.
What a bummer.
Still kickin’ in memory of MAC USA:
The hand dispenser was the only non tool. And yes it was a 13” locking flex. I’ll get the part #
XR1390LFPA
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Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I guess the flex head locking mechanism hails from Taiwan but, the rest of the ratchet is US made. I have that ratchet with an all metal handle. nice ratchet but, I've seen pictures of the handle fracturing by the locking mechanism.
Mini pick set at HF is $2.
www.harborfreight.com
Mini Pick and Hook Set
Amazing deals on this 4Pc Mini Pick & Hook Set at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com
Snapped-off
Well-known member
You're paying for that premium truck service whether you use it or not. No secret most of their stuff is rebranded from the Stanley family along with plenty of Asian stuff.
Main reason I don't buy MAC.
Main reason I don't buy MAC.
Odd-job
Well-known member
I can make an exception for the r.b.r.t. stuff that isn't branded proto... if only the bits I want were all in stock...
Agreed. I've never really had a MAC dealer and I've not had a Matco dealer in years. And I don't buy either.
But neither tool truck really manufacturer anything themselves in house any more and have not for many years. It's mostly rebranded and imported tools, mostly from the SB&D and Apex lineup of companies. And I'm not even talking about their secondary brands (Blackhawk, Silver Eagle, etc.).
Snap On is still the only tool truck brand that manufacturers in house most of what they sell under their core name (not BluePoint) in the USA. Yes, some of it is made by one of the companies they own, but only a few of their products fall into this category. Even fewer are rebranded or otherwise made by another company for them.
Mac makes more in house then snap on actually if you work by the same rules given the massive size and production scale of sbd. Heck their the only us manufacturing company at least I know of that runs their own production facilities in Taiwan
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I've been using this set for years on all kinds of stuff they weren't meant for. Broke the tip on one, but otherwise, they have been awesome and are really compact.Mini pick set at HF is $2.
Mini Pick and Hook Set
Amazing deals on this 4Pc Mini Pick & Hook Set at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
I bought the tektons for the hell of it and they are a lot bigger. Probably will be handy at times
Same here. Not buying any Mac products after this. Snap on has treated me very well
d.mcfarland
Well-known member
In my non professional opinion, if you have a reliable MAC guy, the tools aren't bad. Remember, when buying from a tool truck you are buying service essentially.
For my case, I don't want to have to mail tools back to them that are broken. The warranty process for someone without a driver is very difficult.
For my case, I don't want to have to mail tools back to them that are broken. The warranty process for someone without a driver is very difficult.
crewchief888
Well-known member
over the years for me, even WITH a driver it was difficult getting anything warrantied or repaired.
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
I think that Proto is probably the best of the sub-brands for SBD. The ratcheting wrenches have all moved to Taiwan but most everything else is still US with some US with global components. But I won’t lie, my Taiwan Mac stuff is really nice. I think I like the Facom-cloned combo wrenches more than any of my others.
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
This. I own very few Mac items. What I have, mainly a monstrous breaker bar and a some knurled 3/8" drive extensions, I do not expect to break. But I refuse to acquire anything new of theirs.
I -had- a 1/4" drive extension set as well, but it came with multiple defects out of the box. Mac refused to warranty it, even though the detent ball was literally frozen in place and the extension was useless (because you couldn't put a socket on it). I even included a note explaining exactly what was broken when I mailed it in. Turns out they have a couple women working in warranty receiving who don't know **** about the tools. Not a slam against women in general, just these two in particular. Neither one understood what a detent ball was or how a socket extension worked, so they sent the broken stuff back to me with a nice note saying it was "not broken, no warranty". This after I mailed to them on my dime in the first place, brand new tools.
I complained to the top brass in customer service, eventually got a personal apology from their head of warranty operations. He explained that the woman who is the warranty supervisor, who signed the "not broke, no warranty" letter they sent back to me, doesn't actually verify anything and just signs whatever her subordinate decides on the warranty. With such rigorous oversight, one can hardly be surprised that **** like this happens. The blind leading the stupid almost feels like an understatement.
To their credit, customer service leadership also tried to send a new extension set to me for free, but I called UPS and had it rerouted back to them before it even got here. Told the Operations guy I appreciate the gesture, but I don't need their charity and that I'm done with Mac tools if that's who they have running their warranty shop. For the premium price point, the warranty staff needs to have an IQ somewhere above "fruit fly" if they want me to spend my money on their tools.
To each his own, but that was enough to sour me on the brand. If your warranty is dependent on people so ignorant that they don't know how socket extensions work, then thanks but no thanks.
crewchief888
Well-known member
i hopped on a MAC truck one time to get a ratchet rebuilt, dealer tells me "thats too old" and refused to rebuild or replace it.
several years goes by, a new dealer stops by the shop, says he will try to find a kit for or, or replace it. never saw him again.
a few years goes by and another new dealer shows up, 1st thing outta his mouth was to offer me $250 for my SO boxes and get me out of those pieces of ****. i escorted him to the door, and told him never to return
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
During the aforementioned warranty debacle, prior to mailing in, I had asked if I could connect with a local dealer to warranty it out in person. The withered old customer service hag told me no, they will not even give out a dealer phone number or email. She said too many of them had been assaulted and one killed in recent years. Not to speak ill of the unfortunate, but based on my warranty experience and others like yours, I can see why some of them may have had it coming.
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Nothing new.... Almost everything on the MAC truck is made overseas. MAC does NOT manufacture very many tools here anymore. Pretty much the only made in USA stuff are hand tools made out of metal. Wrenches, ratchets, sockets, extensions, etc, etc.... And that's because MAC shares a factory with PROTO in Texas. Not 100% sure right now, but that was the ONLY USA factory in the entire Stanley Black and Decker tool corporation.
Now, with that said, be careful when buying MAC tools.... just because it's made out of metal doesn't mean it's made in the USA Texas factory. MAC pretty much makes doubles of everything made in Texas, in an overseas factory.... and THOSE are the tools mostly found on the MAC truck in my area. If I had to guess the percentage of USA tools on my local MAC truck, it would probably be 95+% made overseas, with less that 5% made in the USA. This can vary depending on the dealer but my dealer has a hard time selling $400 socket sets made in the USA, when he has the same set made overseas for less than half price. He flat out told me that it's a waste of shelf space and money for him to stock USA made MAC tools.
You can see A LOT of similarities in many of the foreign hand tools on the MAC truck, with tools found at Harbor Freight. I will gladly pay the high price for USA tools on any tool truck, but I absolutely will NOT pay tools truck prices for the same garbage I can buy at the local Harbor Freight. The last socket set I purchased from my MAC dealer I had to be VERY clear with my him that I want the made in USA set. He asked me twice.... "are you sure, they're over twice the price"? I said, "YES, I want USA sockets". He said "You want the expensive set"? And again, I had to say "yes, I know they cost more but I want the USA set".
He didn't say this specifically, but I'm pretty sure that was the first USA set of sockets he sold in a LOOONG time. (considering he doesn't stock them on his truck)
MAC tools are great, if you're buying tools that are ACTUALLY made by MAC. Otherwise you're just buying the same average stuff that everybody else is selling under 100's of various others names.
What? Did you even read what you typed? These "rules" you mention are irrelevant. They don't even apply. Your response is comparing two entirely different business models. I suggest you spend more time on the tool trucks and think about the products they sell. This is especially true for Matco, unless you like paying a premium for literally rebranded and repackaged Gearwrench, Sunex, Launch and Lisle tools. But to each their own.
I could spend an hour typing up a lengthy response to your post... But I'll save us all some time.
#1. Who owns Snap On? Give you a hint, they are NOT owned by an international mega corporate conglomerate tool manufacture like MAC in the form of SD&B.
This is an important distinction because MAC is essentially a **** shoot of a more than a dozen different companies being rebranded as MAC. Buying a MAC branded DeWalt impact for example is not the same as buying a Snap On branded impact.
Yes, Snap On does own a few other companies (Williams, Bahco, CDI, etc.), but Snap On is their parent company. Not the other way around... https://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliations/
#2. Where are the majority of Snap On tools made? They are made in house by Snap On in the USA in Snap On owned manufacturing facilities... You know, as opposed to Taiwan or China. Like SD&B having their own facilities in Taiwan is somehow a direct comparison. An important distinction beyond just COO itself is the act of outsourcing your production, regardless of whether it's an exclusive product/contract or not.
Disclaimer; These are general statements and don't apply to 100% of Snap On or MAC branded products. I'm referencing hard line tools. Tool boxes, electronics and even specialty tools fall into a different category of their own. We're also not talking about the past or future, or their "economy" brands like BluePoint or SilverEagle, etc.
No, the snap-on Incorporated owns snap-on, Williams, Bahco, CDI etc, snap-on tools is a division of snap-on incorporated in the exact same way mac is a division of Stanley Black and Decker. The paper work is almost identical in both cases, just because the name is the same doesnt change the corporate fillings
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Unfortunately Mac has went that way both the tools and the dealers. Never had good experiences from Mac trucks either. All the drivers seem to not care about your business. One time out on the road my dad was looking for a certain socket. Seen a Mac truck at the place he was at and asked the guy if he had it and said he has money whatever the price is. Guy laughs and says yeah I do but we don’t sell to weekend warriors or construction workers or whatever you are, my tools are strictly for professionals. The other guy around here is ok and I’ve bought a few things from him but I remember when I stepped on the truck I remember seeing exactly what you describe with the made in China or made in Taiwan or whatever and was so disappointed. Though if a dealer was decent I would buy stuff from them to help them out because that’s just who I am. That being said I’d still buy their locking flex head over the Snap-on because the Snap-on design is horrible. Matco is my top choice for that though.
I feel like that's splitting some damn fine hairs. I don't care about their corporate filings, I'm not the SEC or IRS.
I care about what company makes what product and how that product is being branded and sold.
But again, my statements are very general. I'm not going to pretend to account for every tool sold by Snap On or SB&D and the companies they own/own them.
My point is simply the desire that more people are better informed of what they are actually buying and who made it, regardless of the name that's on it and/or on the package. I mentioned expectation and reputation in another thread regarding COO and outsourcing manufacturing, this is no different.
We can always agree to disagree. Maybe our experiences on the truck have been different. At the end of the day, we're both going to buy whatever it is we're going to buy.
I don't know about that.... Snap-on makes A LOT of their own product in many of their own factories around the USA and around the world. If you're talking about total world wide SBD production, regardless of the country they're located in, regarless if the tool say MAC or another SBD brand, then sure SBD probably makes far more tools....
But we're not comparing SBD as a whole to Snap-on, we're comparing MAC Tool's product line, to Snap-on's product line.
How many MAC tools from the entire MAC catalog are made BY MAC in a MAC (or SBD) owned factory, by SBD employees, who receive an SBD paycheck?
Now, how many tools from the entire Snap-on catalog are made BY Snap-on in a Snap-on owned factory, by Snap-on employees, who receive a Snap-on paycheck?
My guess is Snap-on wins by a landslide..... with a large portion of their production still here in the USA.
Uhhh... Is that in reference to a truck account? Do you owe your MAC dealer money or are you buying everything outright?
Where are you seeing this "service charge"? I don't do business with MAC, but I'd like some details because that seems wrong.
I would definitely need an explanation as to WTF that is for from MAC (your dealer).
Depending on the amount they are charging and their reasoning, I would stop buying their tools, maybe even sell some of them, pay off my account ASAP, tell MAC to pound sand and finally take my business somewhere else.
richfinn
Well-known member
We had an awesome MAC tools dealer (ex mechanic) back in the 90s (UK), lost him to cancer unfortunately and never bought any MAC tools again as the new guy was basically a toolbox and finance salesman and had no interest in either tools or looking after guys that weren't spending big money on shiny stuff.
He would make a beeline for any new techs/apprentices and try and sign them up.
After six months of waiting for a new knuckle for a 1/2" breaker bar, I told him to f*ck off and never come back (a trade customer got it fixed for me from another MAC dealer in another area and he looked after us, on the sly).
Still using my MAC 3/8" spinflex ratchet and 1/2" breaker bar 30 years later (good tools) guessing they are USA made
Not seen a MAC dealer truck in years now, I guess the Internet killed it for them in the UK!!!
He would make a beeline for any new techs/apprentices and try and sign them up.
After six months of waiting for a new knuckle for a 1/2" breaker bar, I told him to f*ck off and never come back (a trade customer got it fixed for me from another MAC dealer in another area and he looked after us, on the sly).
Still using my MAC 3/8" spinflex ratchet and 1/2" breaker bar 30 years later (good tools) guessing they are USA made
Not seen a MAC dealer truck in years now, I guess the Internet killed it for them in the UK!!!
ultgar
Well-known member
Xcursion88
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You have to pay attention with tool trucks.
Matco, Mac, Cornwell and even SO all have tons of imported items.
Blue point..SO (imported) and yes even some of their pick type things even with the SO name you have to pay attention.
SO branded pipe wrenches are Turkey or Spain
Matco makes nothing but boxes. Everything contracted out.
Silver eagle line is all imported
Even Matco branded stuff a lot is imported.
Mac...genuine Mac hard goods are USA...but not all. Again you must pay attention.
Unless someone shows me differently the only tool brand I know with a massive catalog and made 101% USA is SK.
That's the way it was prior to the sale.
And as far as I know still is.
Matco, Mac, Cornwell and even SO all have tons of imported items.
Blue point..SO (imported) and yes even some of their pick type things even with the SO name you have to pay attention.
SO branded pipe wrenches are Turkey or Spain
Matco makes nothing but boxes. Everything contracted out.
Silver eagle line is all imported
Even Matco branded stuff a lot is imported.
Mac...genuine Mac hard goods are USA...but not all. Again you must pay attention.
Unless someone shows me differently the only tool brand I know with a massive catalog and made 101% USA is SK.
That's the way it was prior to the sale.
And as far as I know still is.
Blue Point is NOT necessarily a brand that Snap-on uses strictly for imports...... At one point almost everything with the Blue Point name was made in the USA. Even today, SOME Blue Point stuff is still made in the USA. One example off the top of my head:... Those turbo twist style sockets for stripped fastener removal..... the Blue Point version of those sockets are still made in the USA
As seen here: https://shop.snapon.com/product/Twist,-Shallow,-inches-mm-(Blue-Point)/13-pc-3-8"-Drive-SAE/Metric-Shallow-Twist-Impact-Socket-Set-(Blue-Point)/213TFSYA
If you look through an old guy's tool box, you'll probably find a LOT of Blue Point tools that were made in the USA. And it's not that Snap-on WANTS to have import products for their Blue Point brand, it's because the number of companies who make tools in the USA is almost down to nothing so import tools are the only option in most circumstances.
When I describe Blue Point.... I never tell people it's a brand that Snap-on uses for import tools..... I tell people "Blue Point is A brand name (not the only brand name) that Snap-on uses for tools they don't manufacturer themselves". (import or USA produced)
Xcursion88
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It's simply generalized speak and while not everything labeled Blue Point is imported, most Blue Point tools are not only imported but Asian. Aside from the twist sockets you mentioned I can also think of their wire strippers that are USA made. They even use red vinyl handles (instead of blue) but are definitely stamped Blue Point and definitely made in USA.
That said it's a very lopsided ratio of imported vs. Made in USA with Blue Point.
As far as "want to" ...that's very different than "have to" and I think SO would have a difficult time surviving at their current make-up if they just sold exclusive SO.
They'd "survive" but gross sales wouldn't be able to support and sustain their current make-up as a company.
The OP's complaint was his surprise of getting goods he thought were Made in USA only to made elsewhere.
I can't stress enough to anyone that you can no longer just assume everything by brand X is made in USA. While you can weed through and get what you want from the COO you desire it's just not automatic based on a particular company's name. Unfortunately that ship has sailed.
Ton ton
Well-known member
The Blue point wire strippers I bought are junk for residential wiring. Your mileage may vary.
Xcursion88
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