WWGJD?? New garage plans

[Azmotorhead]

What Would Garage Journal Do?
I need a little guidance so I thought I'd ask here.I'll be as brief as I can.
I run a small hobbyist garage. Owner of the building is partner in Structural steel building company. He offered to plan/design my separate garage.
70'x45'main area with 60'x 20' end bay for class A coach storage.

He got busy with running his business so couldn't devote time to my extra work.
He farmed it off to a drafting company he knows, I met with them to go over basic design requirements.
I finally get the preliminary plans and the Bill.
Their invoice states they have 120 hours in the drawing. There is no electrical drawn in. There is no Plumbing drawn in. Engineering has not been done for the steel trusses. Engineering has not been done for slab & footer thicknesses.
Drawing does have all the steel callouts for lentils,supports,trusses and columns.

Bill from the drafting co $6000.00

I did not sign a contract with anyone,price was never brought up, I met with draftsman once & answered a few questions he had about heights & windows.
Price & cost was never brought up by either party myself included.

Now what would you do?

 

[D.J.]

You did not enter into a contract with the drafting company! I say you owe them nothing in my opinion.
________
Expert Insurance

 

[BillGalbraith]

Your total area is 4350 sf. Around here, I think the going rate is aout $1/sf for residencial garages, so the price is about par. However, I agree with D.J. YOu didn't enter into a contract with them, never talked price, etc. Now, it is my opinion that you could walk away and not be successfully sued by them. However, you still need to have plans drawn up. You might ask around and see what this would cost if you went to someone else, and then you would have a better position from which you could negioate with this firm. Maybe you can get the price down some. However, you can't piss them off too much, because you are going to need more drawings, and probably some changes before it is all said and done.

How much were you planning on spending on drawings?

 

[John in OH]

Yikes!! $6k does sound pretty high; however, just because you didn't sign anything doesn't mean that you don't have an implied contract with the engineering firm. I'm no attorney, but if they did work for you in good faith and you were complicit in discussions during the execution of that work you may be on thin ice regarding a refusal to pay.

I suggest that you sit down with your friend and discuss the situation. Then after you know what direction he gave the engineering firm, try sitting down with the owner of the engineering firm and your friend and try to reach a more agreeable settlement. It may be that the engineering firm billed you as if you were a typical client and the accounts receivable didn't realize that your friend may have made special arrangements for your specific work.

Don't panic yet ... first step is to get all the facts and go from there.

My opinion only .... Good luck!

 

[Azmotorhead]

Without knowing anything about drawing up plans< I know how to read and build from plans>
I guesstimated plans would be $1500 & those drawings would include electrical & plumbing, details for fastening,footers & the usual things you see on a set of plans.
I understand that truss calcs would still need to be done, at a extra cost.

I agree I dont want to P.O. anyone.
I just dont see 120 hours in this drawing (at $50hr)

 

[Azmotorhead]

John in OH. All dealings were done on a first person, there's no accounting dept to get in the way.
I agree all work was done on a implied status. I don't plan on stiffing anyone.
I cant see it taking 1 person 3 weeks to draw a simple building.

 

[ZRX61]

I cant see it taking 1 person 3 weeks to draw a simple building.

.. & still not complete the drawings...

 

[tonydanzah]

i would walk away. Sounds like a **** thing of the owner to pass you off on a buddy and not mention the cost. Especially since it sounds like he would have done it for much cheaper, but his business got busy.

 

[Nostraquedeo]

Surely you assumed there would be some cost associated with this design? Why did you not ask up front what the design work was going to cost? Sound really high. I would discuss with all parties and figure out something fair.

 

[bluesman2a]

Walk away now.
Regardless of how this plays out, somebody will be PO'd. There's no reason that should be you.
Your buddy should have communicated that he was farming this out.
There should have been an estimate on the cost up front.
If there was a problem with the time (taking longer) the draftsman should have communicated it.
In order to complete the plans it will be MORE money.

Regardless of how bad it is right now, it will only get worse later, and there will be MORE money at stake.

Going forward. Have clear documented deliverables with time and cost spelled out in advance.

 

[buddyboy]

give them the $6000 and look at it this way.

$1500 for the drawings
$4500 for the lesson in how to ask up front


it's too late now, but when you went over the basic design requirements one of the requirements should have been a budget of $1500 for the drawings. Granted, they should have clued you in on what the costs were gonna be, but if what they are charging is the norm in the area then they assumed you or your "buddy" knew.

I'm sure you wouldn't call a concrete guy and have him come pour some concrete for you, then wait till the middle of the job and ask "how much is this gonna cost?"

same thing with these drawings, or with lawyers or designers or architects.

It's forty five hundred dollars cheaper to ask up front.

 

[drmoonshine]

What Would Garage Journal Do?
I need a little guidance so I thought I'd ask here.I'll be as brief as I can.
I run a small hobbyist garage. Owner of the building is partner in Structural steel building company. He offered to plan/design my separate garage.
70'x45'main area with 60'x 20' end bay for class A coach storage.

He got busy with running his business so couldn't devote time to my extra work.
He farmed it off to a drafting company he knows, I met with them to go over basic design requirements.
I finally get the preliminary plans and the Bill.
Their invoice states they have 120 hours in the drawing. There is no electrical drawn in. There is no Plumbing drawn in. Engineering has not been done for the steel trusses. Engineering has not been done for slab & footer thicknesses.
Drawing does have all the steel callouts for lentils,supports,trusses and columns.

Bill from the drafting co $6000.00

I did not sign a contract with anyone,price was never brought up, I met with draftsman once & answered a few questions he had about heights & windows.
Price & cost was never brought up by either party myself included.

Now what would you do?

If you want his designs you'll have to pay but maybe your partner will take most of the cost because he backed out. However you should have asked up front just like an other work that will be contracted out. However if you walk away I believe you will not have to pay because there was not contract verbal or physical before the action began.

 

[bslimousinranch]

At my last job I was the Senior Draftsman for a Eng. firm. Asfar as what they charged you per hour, it is dead on. Now asfar as the hours put into the project, unless you had alot of changes along the way is very excessive. You should have had all of your drawings done for that price. I'm guessing that maybe you had the new guy working on your plans. That is 3 solid weeks, and from what it sounds like at this rate you will need another 3 weeks worth of work. I would talk to your partner, and then the drafting firm and see what can be done.

 

[blkhonda1991]

the only thing that strikes me as off on that is the 120 hours to do what they have actually presented to you if it is a simple rectangular steel building. In the future never agree to something without it in writing and signed by both parties, it covers both your asses.

 

[MP&C]

I would go talk to the drafter and politely explain that your partner was going to provide the same service free of charge, and while you expect that you would have to pay for services rendered, the hours seem excessively out of line for a partial job that doesn't include electric, plumbing, etc. See how they respond to that, if they will work with you, then work with them. If they want to get ignorant, then let them know you won't need their plans and walk away from the non-contract.

 

[bassr38]

They should had talk to you about what it was going to cost you up front, I know this because I am a contractor myself. I would had told my customer about what it would cost even if I could not had given them the final cost.

 

[IH82BL8]

I agree with everything bslimo said. I was also a senior draftsman with 30 years experience in several different industries. The billing rate sounds reasonable and customary, the number of hours sounds excessive. I can't imagine what you got taking more than a couple of days--a week tops.

BTW, is anyone looking to hire a senior draftsman?

 

[Az Scooter]

John in OH. All dealings were done on a first person, there's no accounting dept to get in the way.
I agree all work was done on a implied status. I don't plan on stiffing anyone.
I cant see it taking 1 person 3 weeks to draw a simple building.

It can when things are slow. I know my employees slow down when there is no work pending.