Ya think these lights will work?

[ATC]

455 watts I've got 10 of them! You should be able to see my 30x34 garage from space now...

 

[blackz26]

1020 Square'x(roughly) 2 Watts = 2040. Youre almost double that! Maybe go 6... just put in 200 watt bulbs with 3850 lumens and its plenty for 20x20. Maybe even go four.. saves power and after a thresh hold, less is more, and more is too much.

 

[ATC]

Haha...don't worry...there is no way I am putting all 10 in my shop. I'm only going to put 4 (maybe 5). I'll keep a couple for spares, and a friend of mine is getting a couple.

Good idea on the smaller bulbs. They have 400W bulbs in them now, and are wired for 277V. I popped the panel off and there are 4 wires labled 120V, 208V, 240V, 277V. All I need to do is swap the currently unused 120V wire in place of the 277V wire correct? I could run them off of 240V if I have to...

What concerns me the most, is that my ceiling is only 9' or 9.5' high. I will have to mount them above the rafters...but I wonder how hot they will get? I don't want to get a sunburn and heat stroke by working in the shop for the better part of the day!

 

[blackz26]

I worded it wrong. I just put the stated lights my 20x20. We have 6 sockets and 6 is plenty. Actually too much at times and I just run four. One in each corner. Given that, that is still 800 ways for 400 square feet, which is right on que.

I'm no electrician, but Id say run the lowest voltage, with the lowest watts, with the highest lumens. Lumens and watts aren't directly related, in case you don't know. Could save you as god chunk of energy each month. I'm all for going green, right in my pocket!

 

[blackz26]

I might. Also add my lights are 120v and are typical screw in fixtures. The sockets are set up like a six pack. Lol

 

[ATC]

Right now, I have (4), 4-foot, 2-bulb flourescent fixtures in there. It's pretty dark, as there is not much light output at all.

 

[Gary S]

Put them all in. Your power company will send you a lot of thank you notes.

 

[Norcal]

I worded it wrong. I just put the stated lights my 20x20. We have 6 sockets and 6 is plenty. Actually too much at times and I just run four. One in each corner. Given that, that is still 800 ways for 400 square feet, which is right on que.

I'm no electrician, but Id say run the lowest voltage, with the lowest watts, with the highest lumens. Lumens and watts aren't directly related, in case you don't know. Could save you as god chunk of energy each month. I'm all for going green, right in my pocket!

They will consume exactly the same amount of energy at any voltage they are rated for, watts is watts. 4 amperes at 120V is the same as 2 amperes at 240V.

 

[nehog]

Each of my 20x30 sections has four of these lights. (I also have eight T-8 fixtures, however with the HID lights on, the T-8's are insignificant!) It is as bright as day in there with that level of lighting. I'd suggest (based on my experience) six is the right number for you!

BTW, I love my HIDs: the light color is perfect, I get great color rendition and can see well (old guy eyes and all) with them on.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If the fixtures are designed for 400 watts, the only lower wattage bulbs I know of that can be used are "energy saving" 360 watt bulbs. I do not know of metal halide fixtures that will allow you to just install drastically lower wattage bulbs without changing the ballast. Besides, if you look at the price of bulbs, the OP will want to use what is installed in the fixtures.

I hope the OP has a very high ceiling, as these lights will need to be mounted with the HOOK at about 15 or 16 foot. Much lower than that and the light from the fixture will be so concentrated that it will leave bright spots on the floor, with dark shadows in between, especially with the aluminum reflectors. Also since the bottom of the fixtures hang down about two feet from the ceiling, minimum, anything lower than about 12 ft ceilings will leave the fixtures in the way of lifting vehicles, swinging around 2x4 lumber, etc.

Not trying to rain on the OP's parade, or bad mouth the OP's luck in getting the fixtures, just trying to warn of the pitfalls of having those MH fixtures.

Also be aware, use the exact bulbs specified by the fixture, as they come in varieties you never imagined. burn base up (BU) only, or horizontal only, or all position; probe start (older type) or pulse start (newer type) and are not interchangeable.

The fixture is about 480 watts total draw, right at 4 amps at 120v. Hopefully these are either straight 120v or multi-volt fixtures. (decal on the right in the pic looks like a multi-volt decal giving amp draw. Have to assume this is a detached shop/garage, as you are not allowed by code to use lighting in a residence (or attached garage) that exceeds 120v.

Put them all in. Your power company will send you a lot of thank you notes.

Yes they will, I heard the folks at the generating plant last night whooping with joy when I switched all 12 of mine on.

What concerns me the most, is that my ceiling is only 9' or 9.5' high. I will have to mount them above the rafters...but I wonder how hot they will get? I don't want to get a sunburn and heat stroke by working in the shop for the better part of the day!

Missed this one when I read the thread. Absolutely do not run the lights with the outer bulb broken, they will operate just fine, but you will get a horrible sunburn from them. Run those lights all day and you will get a stroke when you see the first power bill.

Charles

My 400 watt metal halide lighting install thread

 

[bdamico]

Sounds like a bad idea on heat, electric, and bright spots

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Forgot to add, look at the bottom line of the placard on the right in the pic. I believe is says to use at least 90°C conductors. You want to inspect that cord on the lights and make sure it is marked as 90°C or 105°C. You do not want to use 60°C conductor for sure. I did mine with used 105°C cord I was able to get scrap from work. It had damage to sections of it, but only needing short pieces, I was able to cut out the damaged pieces and still had enough to use.

Charles

 

[ATC]

Thank you Charles. I wanted to hear from someone with experience with these lights.

I never planned on using them as my primary shop lighting, but only to supplement the current lights when needed. I'd put one or two per switch instead of all of them at once.
The power consumption doesn't concern me too much, because of how little I'd use them, and my current electric bill is under $18/mo.

My main concern is mounting them. Do you think I can trim the fixture up some so they don't focus the light in one spot? And do you think they'd get too hot to mount in the rafters?

Yes, they are multi-volt (can run on 120v). I'm now thinking about just 2 lights down the center of my garage and updating the current fluorescent fixtures to something else.

 

[ATC]

More pics.

I might see about selling/trading these off for some other lights...

 

[nehog]

Q: how high is your ceiling? Mine is about 14 where the lights are mounted, and I do not have hot spotting. Heat is not significant with these, they are (considering) relatively efficient.

The bulb looks like a probe start 400 metal halide. They have the inner envelope that is the actual bulb, and the outer bulb which is used to suppress UV light. The inner bulb should be clear or almost clear, a dark inner bulb indicates the lamp is at the end of its life. I have a bunch of new bulbs I will sell (I got extras for a friend who decided he didn't need them.)

Word to the wise: never turn on a fixture with the outer bulb broken. The amount of UV is enough to cause injury in a very short time.

 

[c0ltzfan]

I sell those kinds of lights and they will hit somewhere close to 700 degrees and at the 9' range from the floor they will act like a spot light...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

More pics.

I might see about selling/trading these off for some other lights...

Reality is, those are great lights, would be even better with the polycarbonate translucent reflectors to spread the light and provide uplight, all helping to eliminate the spot effect and the cave effect (of darkness above) but for the ceiling height you are dealing with, I personally don't think they will work well, even mounted in the rafters. The bottom of mine are mounted at about 15ft on the outer row and the about 16 ft on the inner rows (following the pitch of the roof). Lot different than having the bottom of the light at 9 or 10 ft, and what happens when you decide to sheetrock or cover the ceiling?

Charles

 

[ATC]

Reality is, those are great lights, would be even better with the polycarbonate translucent reflectors to spread the light and provide uplight, all helping to eliminate the spot effect and the cave effect (of darkness above) but for the ceiling height you are dealing with, I personally don't think they will work well, even mounted in the rafters. The bottom of mine are mounted at about 15ft on the outer row and the about 16 ft on the inner rows (following the pitch of the roof). Lot different than having the bottom of the light at 9 or 10 ft, and what happens when you decide to sheetrock or cover the ceiling?

Charles

You're right. The garage was built when I was too young to know anything. Now that I am older, and am getting pretty involved in fab/welding work and 4x4 modifications...I am quickly outgrowing it. Ideally, I'd love a 60x80 steel building with 16'+ ceilings.

I think, I will keep a couple lights just in case, sell the rest and use that money to buy some T8's.

What are these lights worth? I've seen anywhere from $50 to $450 on Ebay for similar.

 

[Norcal]

They are worth about whatever you can get for them as scrap.

 

[nehog]

When I got my lights, I ended up with about 65 of them. I needed 12 or so and sold the rest. Used Craig's list, and sold them for prices that varied between $30 and $60 (mostly due to quantity, and a bit on how good their condition was). I paid about $100 for the entire lot (auction!) and sold about 50, averaged perhaps $30 each so I came out ahead.

Your lights seem clean. I'd suggest asking $50 or so for them.

 

[Norcal]

When I got my lights, I ended up with about 65 of them. I needed 12 or so and sold the rest. Used Craig's list, and sold them for prices that varied between $30 and $60 (mostly due to quantity, and a bit on how good their condition was). I paid about $100 for the entire lot (auction!) and sold about 50, averaged perhaps $30 each so I came out ahead.

Your lights seem clean. I'd suggest asking $50 or so for them.

For a complete fixture that is new (cost about $120), that is a bit steep, with a new fixture you get a warranty,new lamp. They are just a plain Jane high bay unit.....

 

[nehog]

For a complete fixture that is new (cost about $120), that is a bit steep, with a new fixture you get a warranty,new lamp. They are just a plain Jane high bay unit.....

I'm not sure where you are seeing new fixtures for $120 but that is a great price if they are any good. Most that I see range from $250 to $350.

 

[Norcal]

I'm not sure where you are seeing new fixtures for $120 but that is a great price if they are any good. Most that I see range from $250 to $350.

Those are low end high bay fixures, not anything special. $250-350 ea is getting screwed.

 

[nehog]

Those are low end high bay fixures, not anything special. $250-350 ea is getting screwed.

Since the OP has not mentioned his ceiling height yet, I'm going to agree that they are not appropriate for his installation. I'm sure he could find low-bay diffusers if he wanted, but I'd question whether it would be worth the effort.

 

[Norcal]

What I meant by "low end" fixtures is cheap or low cost.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Pretty good sized company, owned by Phillips.

The ABC story is not dated, but according to another story, the acquisition was announced as being complete on Jan 28, 2008

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=3914860&page=1#.UWnxJzfbZAo

Philips buys U.S. lighting maker Genlyte for $2.7B

By Toby Sterling, AP Business Writer
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands

Royal Philips Electronics phg will buy Genlyte Group glyt for $2.7 billion, the world's largest lighting maker said Monday.

Phillips agreed to pay $95.50 (64.77 euros) a share in a management-agreed takeover that values the U.S. company at 1.83 billion euros.

Genlyte's shares closed at $62.67 Friday, and Philips' offer represents a 52% premium. Louisville-based Genlyte makes fixtures for lights used mostly by companies.

Amsterdam-based Philips said Genlyte had sales of around $1.7 billion in the 12 months ended Sept. 30.

Philips said the acquisition would strengthen its position in energy-efficient lighting, and will allow it to surpass rival General Electric ge as the largest lighting company in North America.

Theo van Deursen, head of Philips' lighting division, said Genlyte's distribution channels were more important to Philips than its manufacturing technology.

Philips has invested heavily in developing energy-saving bulbs, but has so far been more successful in Europe than in the United States in marketing them.

"It's very important that (Genlyte ) are in contact...with the lighting designers and architects, which helps us a lot in bringing new products to the market," Van Deursen said.

Van Deursen said Philips hopes to sell new products, especially LEDs, to Genlyte customers.

LEDs, or light emitting diodes, use computer chips to produce light, rather than the glowing filaments used in traditional incandescent bulbs or the gas used in fluorescent bulbs. Philips expects LEDs to gradually replace both incandescent and fluorescent lights in the coming decade, as they are more energy-efficient, they last longer, and the cost of producing them is expected to fall rapidly.

Philips said it expects to complete the deal in the first quarter of 2008, pending approval by shareholders and regulators.

Van Deursen said Philips believes it could boost Genlyte's sales around $30 million annually with new product offer and cut costs by around the same amount by helping the company with purchasing and distribution.

He said Philips did not plan significant cuts to Genlyte's 6,700 employees, of whom 6,500 are in the United States. The employees will be part of one of Philips' fastest-growing businesses.

Philips shares rose 1.7% to 28.91 euros ($42.63) in Amsterdam.

The Genlyte buy, if successful, will be one of a spate of recent lighting acquisitions for Philips.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Phillips has completely restructured the lighting lines they acquired with Genlyte, but THIS particular fixture appears to be the same one, as far as ballast shape (rather unique), and reflector mounting (again, a somewhat different or unique design).

On these lights you **** the reflector up as close to the ballast as possible for the widest light spread possible. If you want narrow beam of light, you lower the reflector. This is actually "spelled out" on the placard showing the strap settings for wide, medium and narrow light beams for different bulbs.

Need to measure the reflector diameter.

In all cases the spec sheets say that the ceiling mounting height should exceed 15 ft.

Charles

 

[ATC]

Since the OP has not mentioned his ceiling height yet, I'm going to agree that they are not appropriate for his installation. I'm sure he could find low-bay diffusers if he wanted, but I'd question whether it would be worth the effort.

My ceiling height was stated in post #3. 9 to 9.5 feet.


I wired one up for 120v and tried it out the other day. I didn't have it mounted, but I lifted it up to chest height, and it easily casted light to a cabinet that was 15' away in the middle of the day with the sun shining bright. It was on for about 5 minutes, and didn't get too hot to concern me. I could still touch the lamp.

I think I'm gonna keep one light to mount in the rafters, and use it when I am working under a vehicle or something similar, where I could use the excess light to reflect off the floor and under where I need it. Once I upgrade to the T8's (this summer/fall hopefully), I'll remove it. I gave away 4 lights, and the other 5 are up for sale at $60ea or $100/pair.

 

[nehog]

My ceiling height was stated in post #3. 9 to 9.5 feet.

...

OK, I missed that! I don't think that ceiling height will work well enough for your purposes.

 

[ATC]

I agree. Thanks for talking some sense into me guys!

 

[ehale3]

My ceiling is 12' 8'' I put 6 above the rafters with no problems, they work great