Your thoughts on these framing ideas please

[cdottrot]

Hello everyone,

I'm in the planning stages - hoping to pour next spring. We are going to demo the existing detached garage/slab and put in a proper foundation/slab/structure.

I am trying to make the most of the space we have, and to do this we are turning it into an 'attached' garage; attached in the sense that there will be a breezeway in the 'pergola' style attaching the house and garage. I have checked with the city and they confirm this is enough to call it attached.

So - what do you think of these prelim designs?

The idea is to use up the triangle in the corner of our pie-shaped lot.

The first picture here shows the basic layout of the property, and in red are the setback limits. The rectangular area attached to the back of the house is a patio. The cylinder is the rough size of the tree, and the block in the corner is the shed.

A note on the garage dimensions - 12" stem walls, 8x9' garage door, 36" man-door, and approx 11' ceilings. I have not added any windows at this point, but they will probably be on the 'backyard' side of the house.

Note that this picture depicts two options, not before and after.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

What is the scale, and how wide is the door ? The smaller th space, the more important the extra square feet are

 

[Ocho]

It looks to me like the one on the left would be easier to build and look better once constructed. You don't see too many buildings in neighborhoods with odd angle exterior walls. The one on the right might look out of place after it was built.

Either one will be better than what I have, though.

 

[cdottrot]

The door, as mentioned above, is 8x9' (9' wide), with a 36" man-door. Having that wall open would make a difference. If you take the structure inside a 'square', then it would be 25x23, with the angled wall cutting part of that off - I would say probably close to 500 sq.ft. (existing garage is 390 sq.ft.)

But I am inclined to agree with Ocho. That 'closet' space will eventually be home to a compressor, among other things. I may wall off part of that closet for a compressor, and make the other side for liquid storage, parts, etc.

 

[ddawg16]

How sure are you of the setback limits? In my case, as long as my 'structure' was "just a garage", I could be up to the property line as long as I didn't go over 15' total height....

I don't think there will be a big difference in framing vs the two styles.....both are going to be compliated.

Which way you go depends on what you want to do/can do with the space on the side. If you can put up a 'shed' without having issues....then I would go with the one on the left...it leaves you a lot more space for it...keep all of the yard stuff in it.

On a side note......I would pour concrete all the way up to the wall/fence....it will make maint a lot easier...that...or plan on grading it and putting down a good layer of packed rock.

 

[bazzateer]

I'd do the one on the right simply to maximise your interior space. I like quirky shaped buildings, boxes are boring.

 

[ket-tek]

I'm wondering more about how the roof would look on the angled walls?

You plan on trusses or stick built?

 

[trbomax]

I dont like the roof line.Too many places for leaf and other debris to collect and cause problems. Our roofs in ohio were like that and my son has constant maintenence issues with the even now.Why not run the shop ridge out to meet the peak of the house,then match the pitch of the shop to the house? No end walls on the roof that way.

 

[JSBriggs]

What do you have planned for the roof on each one? I think the one on the left would be a better working space, but you might need to get creative to make the roof look nice.

-Jeff

 

[cdottrot]

I am quite sure of the setback limits. The reason for the 4' is because an attached garage is considered part of the house, so I would then be governed by the limits imposed on the house - 4' setback.

The roof was something I had not really considered at this point, I suppose the design must include the trusses/roof theory to be judged accurately - will work on this.

I had hoped to do trusses - I do not think they allow stickbuilt, as the design needs to be approved by an engineer. I would rather do trusses anyways - I'm not a structural engineer, and don't really want to pay for one to vet my plans.

I think the one on the left won't be so hard to roof, but I'll put together some more sketchups and get back to you guys. Thanks for the input so far!!

 

[John in OH]

Ket-tek has hit on the key point here ... you must consider the roof design before you can make a decision. Framing a wall at an odd angle can often greatly complicate the roof design, especially if you were planning to use trusses. If you use the design on the right, I suspect that you will have to stick build the roof and even then you may end up with goofy looking overhangs and/or pitches. I've done several house remodels and additions in the past and I have almost always found that the roof pitch and roof configuration dictates how the framing must be done. You kind of have to work from the top down rather than from the bottom up ... or at the very least they must be done in concert!!

I vote for the left style just due to the roof design considerations.

Question for you ... can the roof overhang (soffet and facia portion) infringe on the setback limit dimensions?

 

[John in OH]

Oh, I meant to compliment you on the design sketches that you've made. What software did you use?

 

[cdottrot]

Thanks John, I use Google Sketchup, and the thanks really goes to my good friend who works for Hickory Dickory Decks out here - he's a Sketchup master!!! I just learned from him, and it's really not that hard to pick up.

Yeah, I definitely don't want to complicate things...I will work on this. Also - roof overhang does not affect setback at all - it's to the walls.

 

[nate379]

If it where my building I would move it over how ever far to get 4 square walls. It will be a nightmare to frame that up and roof it if you have never built something like that before.

Setbacks here are 5ft on side and 20ft on back but I don't think anyone would actually build that close! My garage is about 40ft from my one neighbor and that is much too close IMO.

 

[cdottrot]

Haha, setbacks are smaller where I am due to the property sizes. Houses are about 10-12 feet apart. One day we'll be able to afford someplace that has some nice land, but for now, we work with what we have.

I will hopefully get some ideas for what I think the roof would look like up here in the next few days - we've just got so much hosting to be done! Jeepers...gonna need a hiatus from hosting people for a little while.

 

[DIC]

I would make it square add more to the left side behind house....The roof would look odd with that angeled wall...........

 

[JSBriggs]

What is this dimension?

If overhang doesn't factor for setbacks, and that dimension is 4' or less, can you roof it as if it were square and just have a larger soffit on the front left corner?

-Jeff

 

[Eljefe640]

Given the total size of the garage, I think it would be worth the effort to go with the slightly larger plan, even though it is a bit out of the ordinary. Jeff makes a good point on the overhang. That could look pretty good. I think you will be able to get trusses built for this application, they will just be more complicated. Essentially, each truss will be different. As opposed to a more common roof structure that will have multiples of the same truss. I used engineered trusses for both the roof and second floor in my project. Both were somewhat complex and it was no problem.

 

[cdottrot]

That dimension is 4' 1 3/4"...aka 4'.

An issue arises however: roofline cannot exceed the property line. Here's a quick and dirty roof addition:

And the optional roof: (apologies for the tiger stripe...it was kinda awkward to draw)

Hmm, I have no idea how the framing would work there...lots of finnicky angles! I'll attempt to show what I think the framing will look like later on.

Here are some other angles:

Dunno...I think it looks kinda sharp with that angled roofline!

And one more for yuks...with no roof over the left area (man-door):

 

[brwbier]

If you get the roofing question sorted out I like the plan on the right. When you come home and its snowing or raining and pull into the garage there will be room for the passenger side doors to open.
Brwbier

 

[cdottrot]

Also, just to give you an idea of where this is heading, here's a quick sketch of the breezeway/pergola that will attach the two structures together. Kinda messy, and missing the landing outside the side door, but I'll clean that up after church.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I like the angled floorplan on the right, but agree that the roof framing would be kind of funky. One thing to consider - I think any roof overhangs will need to be within the property line setback, not just the walls.

 

[cdottrot]

Thanks Stuart. I have already confirmed with the city that the roof only needs to be within property lines, not the setback. Setback is measured to the walls.

 

[cdottrot]

Here's a few views of the left option with roofing (much easier).

 

[Ironcrow]

Great looking software! Have you considered a 'normal' rectangular footprint and just skew the building parallel to the side lot line? Enlarge slightly, shrinking the backyard a little (who wants to mow anyway?) to get the same square foots? Even if you cut the back of the building at an angle (you could leave it straight), this angled end is easier to frame than variable span trusses.

 

[nate379]

How big is your back yard? I'm not sure if it's to scale in the drawings you did, but it seems like it's "overbearing" compared to the yard size. Not sure if that is the right words.... trying to stuff 20lbs of **** in a 10lb bag if that makes sense.

 

[DIC]

I like the bump-out idea better than the angle wall..

 

[dansmurf]

What if the long angled wall was sloped with the tall side being in the front and the rear most part of the wall would line up with the rest of the walls. It would allow you to keep only one slope for the roof. It may be worth a try.

 

[cdottrot]

We looked at skewing the garage, but we prefer the parallel look, and you still end up with the wasted space at the back then, instead of the side.

Nate, haha, I agree it looks very large compared to the backyard, but it's not really that bad. The existing garage is in basically the same place, so we're only losing 3' of the backyard with this new design.

dansmurf, not quite sure what you mean...sloping the wall?

 

[bazzateer]

You really need to build this:

It may be more work and more cash to do so but you will end up with maximum space and an interesting building rather than a box with a roof on. I'd also build a small sound-proofed 'kennel' in that back corner to house the compressor.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I would stay away from the angled roof line. I think it would be a framing nightmare, jack the cost up for the contractor and thik about resale. Would you be leery about buying a structure with a 'bent" roof line? I would walk right away from that and not even think about buying it.

This looks more appropriate.

If the roof line can over hang the setback, legally, and not a problem, I'd do some inquiring. Take a copy of this picture to the city code office (whereever, you have made your inqurires so far) and ask if it is possible to get a variance to allow the bottom corner (near the overhead door)to come out straight.
They may allow the variance and it could be built into the setback. Usually a variance needs to be approved by a city council or another board meeting.

If the wall is also to scale, you can advise them, that nobody will even see that it invades on the setback. It wouldn't hurt to ask about a variance.

 

[bazzateer]

If the roof line can over hang the setback, legally, and not a problem, I'd do some inquiring.

I think he's already stated twice in this thread that the local government have confirmed that the set-back only applies to the walls and not the overhangs.

 

[Ironcrow]

What if the long angled wall was sloped with the tall side being in the front and the rear most part of the wall would line up with the rest of the walls. It would allow you to keep only one slope for the roof. It may be worth a try.

I like this idea a lot too. Gives you a straight ridge, all the trusses are sort of the same (truncated along the side lot line as you come forward), giving a sloped fascia board.

 

[cdottrot]

I think I'm going to triple-check with the city on a few things - whether or not the pergola must be covered (aka with a roof), and whether or not the roof can indeed hang into the setback.

I'll also be checking with the guys who will be helping me as to how psychotic the angled roof would be to frame/sheathe.

I will be asking them about a variance for the small angle, that's a good idea.

Also, I'll definitely be building some sort of compressor isolation room.

 

[Ironcrow]

Or just go with a single pitch shed roof. No ridge line, easy to frame, and design tolerates non-square roof easily. This is fun! Let us know what you settle on.

 

[Kevro]

What about doing a hip roof, like your house? Eliminate the clipped corner at the back-right, and extend the angled wall straight back to the back wall, and you'd have 4 parts to the roof, instead of dozens. My drawing is ugly, but you get the idea...

 

[Rosco]

I am not a framer but have spent a lot of time framing.........The one on the left would be the one for me. The angled wall will cause a lot of frustration. It can be done but in my opinion the hassle and the finished product will not be worth the trouble.

Damn nice software, and that building will be nice regardless of your decision.

Kudo's to your prep work.......

 

[NUTTSGT]

I think he's already stated twice in this thread that the local government have confirmed that the set-back only applies to the walls and not the overhangs.

Inquring for a variance, to build into the setback.

 

[BooUrns!]

Good luck getting that built. I probably wouldn't take a job like that just because the amount I would have to charge would be to high or it would be too much work for the money I could get.
It's great that you're experimenting with sketchup but keep in mind that framing is a support structure for other materials. These materials have standard dimensions and applications.
If you're going to play with design models, try going with a simpler garage design and figure out other ways to utilize what you perceive to be wasted space.

Good luck.

 

[cdottrot]

Inquring for a variance, to build into the setback.

To build the WALL into the setback. And I will probably leave variances out of this, if possible - I want the permit part of this process to be as simple as possible - there will already be at least three permits: electrical work, demolition, and reconstruction as attached.

City confirmed today, roof overhang is fine in setback area - setback is measured to the walls.

I have already done plans for a square building, and I may go back to them. I will do some more designs when time permits.