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Your thoughts on thinning latex paint

scottydosnntkno

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^ That is what I always thought.

I try to use the product the way it was made. I really can't see thinning a paint if you're using a roller. Why doesn't the manufacturer just water it down themselves and produce more gallons for the same amount of money?

They make their paint to be thicker for a reason. Try another brand that suits you? I thought 'time was money'. As a pro painter, why would you even want to mess around with thinning the paint at all if you didn't have to? You would need another container, you would have to stir again, etc etc.

"breaks the tension on the roller leaving fewer dry spots" What does that even mean? What tension? If you're having trouble with brush marks (I am assuming your talking about trim) switch to a brand that would work better for you like Benjamin Moore Advance. Or you a product like Floetrol

This is what Sherwin William says about thinning paint:

Most products are ready to go right out of the can with no reduction necessary. Some products can be reduced to some degree. The product's data page will indicate the maximum reduction allowed if any and the correct type of reducer. Please note that reducing a paint product past the recommended levels would produce a solution that may not offer the same performance characteristics as those indicated on the product's data page. Always use the recommended solvent and never reduce past the amounts recommended by the product's manufacturer.
While many homeowner products can be used out of a can, most professional finishes cannot.

NOT talking latex or acrylics here as most of those are made to be thick so joe blow homeowner can apply one heavy coat and be done.

We deal extensively with industrial grade cabinet lacquers, and many of the. Are thinned and modified 25-50% by the time we spray them. Our undercoater is thinned 30%, plus 5% acetate (a slower thinner) and 10% retarder so 45% total. The finish we thin 10%, acetate 10% and retard 5% so 25% total.

Thinner/acetate/retarder is $20/gal vs the finishes 50-60. I imagine they don’t prethin because they’re going for shelf stability and trying to provide a product you tweak for your environment and application type. But they do test for it, which is why the can probably says thin no more than 10% for a latex because beyond that they don’t guarantee the same durability
 
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Git

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While many homeowner products can be used out of a can, most professional finishes cannot.

NOT talking latex or acrylics here as most of those are made to be thick so joe blow homeowner can apply one heavy coat and be done.

We deal extensively with industrial grade cabinet lacquers, and many of the. Are thinned and modified 25-50% by the time we spray them. Our undercoater is thinned 30%, plus 5% acetate (a slower thinner) and 10% retarder so 45% total. The finish we thin 10%, acetate 10% and retard 5% so 25% total.

Thinner/acetate/retarder is $20/gal vs the finishes 50-60. I imagine they don’t prethin because they’re going for shelf stability and trying to provide a product you tweak for your environment and application type. But they do test for it, which is why the can probably says thin no more than 10% for a latex because beyond that they don’t guarantee the same durability

I thought we were talking about rolling or brushing latex wall paint...:confused:
 

mjeff87

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I consider myself to be a decent painter, but not a pro. Much of how I learned to paint well came from a pro painter that my wife and I hired to paint our entire downstairs (including the ceilings). On the day of the job, I took off work to be home and politely asked the crew if they minded if I hung out and watched them. Not to watch them in a "I'm making sure you're doing the job right" kind of way, but rather watching them to see their techniques. They were a fantastic crew (the owner was a career firefighter Captain that ran his own business on his off days), and I learned many, many things that day. If I would have seen him thinning the paint with water I might have asked him why. If he gave the same responses that you did OP, I would have stored that info in my brain bucket for future use and let him proceed post-haste.
 

scottydosnntkno

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I thought we were talking about rolling or brushing latex wall paint...:confused:

The point was, if the manufacturer says on the can that the product can be thinned up to 10% with water, then the homeowner should have zero issue with it.

Especially after the OP gave his explanation. Some people just think everyone’s out to get one over on them. And nothing he said would please him.

Paint cost is a very small part of the overall job, unless your dealing with the. $99/room hacks.

For example, when we paint rooms (kitchens bathrooms etc) as part of a remodel job, we’ll charge $1400-2000 for example for the walls and ceilings. Two gallons of chb ceiling white (21 ea) and 3-4 gallons of promar 200 (23 ea) puts you at say 140 paint cost. Keep in mind, the wall colors are always special colors for the job. The ceiling paint yeah it’s universal but we’re still going to use an entire can and leave you with the second opened can for touch ups.

So if we thin the paints 10% for workability, and leave you with 1/2 gallon(64 ozs) ceiling paint and 2/3 gallon (84oz) wall paint, please tell me how were screwing the customer and extending the product when we’re leaving you with all the rest. If we didn’t thin it, you’d be left with 58oz and 76oz respectively.

Either way, I paid for the paint to do your job and left you the extra. There’s zero advantage to me besides a better quality finish for you
 

Cougar67

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I agree with making a copy of the directions on the can or better yet email the company and get the specs in writing. Send him the directions and a bill for what the job has cost you so far. If he does not pay take him to small claims court. What a jerk. Him; not you.
 
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Git

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...please tell me how were screwing the customer ...

I never said anyone was 'screwing the customer'

In my experience, I never felt the need to thin paint that I am rolling on the wall or ceiling. I usually use Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore. In the past I have used Behr and Dunn Edwards. Never felt the need to thin it and I can't really understand why you would want too... Thicker paint stays on the roller better and is lest likely to splatter

I should add - why would someone get upset with adding 4 ounces of water to a gallon of paint? How do you even measure 4 ounces? Do you carry around a measuring cup on the job? My point is, there are two sides to every story, I don't believe everything I read on the internet, and the skeptic in me has a hard time believing it was just 4 ounces in a gallon of paint...

Those are my thoughts, sorry you don't agree with them
 
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Jim greengo

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What does the manufacturer label say ?
IF you do it, why wouldn't manufacturer do it in their processing ?


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Every drywaller I've ever watched adds water to the bucket of drywall mud before they mix it up,goes on easier and smoother from what I've seen.
I would think it does the same for latex paint.
If it doesnt cover,they could just add another coat of paint.
 

bwringer

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Look at it this way: you were lucky enough to learn at the beginning of the job instead of the end that the customer was a nitpcking ******* who would never be satisfied.

And yes, he should absolutely pay for the paint and the trip.
 

CJ7VFR

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Look at it this way: you were lucky enough to learn at the beginning of the job instead of the end that the customer was a nitpcking ******* who would never be satisfied...

This, 100 percent!

Even if you do everything they want, the way they want it, where they want it, how they want it, and follow every detail they ask for, people like this will never, ever be satisfied with any job. Never.

My wife's uncle is one of those nitpicking assholes. I think he just loves to ***** about stuff. He will hire someone to do a job, they do it, follow all of his instructions, and he still says they screwed up and he wants his money back.

The last time was he wanted his wooden fireplace mantel refinished. He hired some guy who does this type of work for a living. ******* says to guy, hey, I bought the stain I want you to put on. Guy says well, ok, but that stain is not a very good brand, and will not give you good results. I recommend XYZ brand stain. I have never heard any complaints from anyone about it, or my work putting it on.

Nope, ******* says use the stain I bought. Guy says ok, but you are not going to like the way it comes out. ******* says do it.

Guess what? Guy does the best he can with ****** stain, and job looks pretty good. ******* says nope, not good enough. Guy says there is nothing he can do. ******* says he is not going to pay guy.

I have known my wife for over 15 years now. In that time I have never once heard this uncle say he was happy with a job. Not once ever.

Some people are just nitpicky assholes. And life is better when you stay away from them. Which is why I refuse to go to his house anymore.

Jim
 

Zeke

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Every drywaller I've ever watched adds water to the bucket of drywall mud before they mix it up,goes on easier and smoother from what I've seen.
I would think it does the same for latex paint.
If it doesnt cover,they could just add another coat of paint.

This post touches on something not many think about. In the case of mud, it's easier to put out a product that needs adjustment to suit the conditions, e.g., outside weather and indoor temps. Humidity is a big factor. Yo can't make it thicker.

Another point is that a manufacturer will never err on the side of too thin. When they do, they get complaints up the ***. It's happened to me, a painter now for 50 years (I do other work but I painted first in the union and then on my own with a crew for 10 years. I became a general but I never totally left painting. I paint something every week).

Paint is made from solids and liquids. Within the liquid part there is the binder resin and the part that is designed to evaporate (reducers). It should be spread out to spec always listed on the spec sheet which you don't commonly get with a purchase. Specs are available at a pro store or online for almost any brand.

If you thin the binder and reducer too much, you violate the specs but it takes more than 10% to ruin a gallon of paint. I prefer 5% by volume to start. Using a flowing agent in no more than using a touch of antifreeze which is used in a pinch on hot days to retard the paint some. The trick is always to adjust paint so that your additives evaporate according to the specs leaving the binder behind to create a film that is not compromised. Everyone has their own ideas and no one knows really what they are doing.

Here's the kicker and I have it from the horse's mouth: paints sold in CA have to be compliant AFA VOC's go. The paint is right on the margin and if you thin it that makes it non-compliant. Yes, it works better that way and the manufacturer's know that but they can't say it. You say water is inert and can't add to the volatility? Well it does in a complex chemical way that we don't even need to know about. What goes on at your job is of no concern to me and I hope vice versa.

Paint that comes to the end user as a "brush, roll or spray" product cannot do all 3 equally. Spray equipment needs a certain consistency to function optimally and the velocity of the spray helps with rapid evaporation of the reducing agents giving you the required mil specs called for with each coat.

This is a very complicated issue of working with coatings under varying conditions and is not a subject for people to just toss out observations and unfounded opinion. If you haven't put up 1000's of gallons and been to an actual paint manufacturing company to learn about this, you are not qualified to express what you think is fact.

To the OP: I would have left too but it's entirely your fault. You do sound like you opened up the material ostensibly to box it up for color constancy and automatically added water like adding salt to food w/o first tasting it. You could have demonstrated how the material behaved right out of the can to your customer. You could have used a painter's secret and over brushed it until it looked ropey and then told the customer that condition can be dealt with by adding a reducing agent. If the can mentioned water, there ya go.

When I paint a slab door side with a roller and a brush to tip it off, I allow 90 seconds to begin and get off that side. Paint always lays down as if it were sprayed. You guys know what happens when you go back to "touch up that little spot." Now you have a big spot.
 
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