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Zap vs. Liftmaster vs. ???

PAToyota

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I haven't gotten around to installing openers on my garage doors yet - mainly because it is more of a workshop than a garage that I'm driving in and out of daily. But I put the outlets in for convential garage door openers - middle of the door up at the head of where the door comes to when open.

I've been reading the threads on here about the jackshaft openers such as the Zap and Liftmaster and am starting to think about going that way. So I'm going to have to do some rewiring here...

Do the jackshaft openers mount to a particular side? Or either side? Just wondering where I should put the outlet. Are there installation instructions for these openers online anywhere?

Many thanks for the input. :thumbup:
 
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edl

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PAToyota said:
I haven't gotten around to installing openers on my garage doors yet - mainly because it is more of a workshop than a garage that I'm driving in and out of daily. But I put the outlets in for convential garage door openers - middle of the door up at the head of where the door comes to when open.

I've been reading the threads on here about the jackshaft openers such as the Zap and Liftmaster and am starting to think about going that way. So I'm going to have to do some rewiring here...

Do the jackshaft openers mount to a particular side? Or either side? Just wondering where I should put the outlet. Are there installation instructions for these openers online anywhere?

Many thanks for the input. :thumbup:
Pat - the Liftmaster jackshaft opener (which I HIGHLY recommend) can mount on either side and runs off of 110 v - would search the liftmster website to see if they have pdf instructions - the opener is probably 12" wide and 30" long - hope that helps - thanks, stephen
 

edl

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p.s. given it is a lift master and given it is coded for residential, they have all the bells and whistles - infra-red sensor, impact sensor, key pad entry, wall switch, remote, remote on key chain, do you taxes (ok - just testing) - thanks, stephen
 

bmwpower

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edl said:
p.s. given it is a lift master and given it is coded for residential, they have all the bells and whistles - infra-red sensor, impact sensor, key pad entry, wall switch, remote, remote on key chain, do you taxes (ok - just testing) - thanks, stephen

Does the Liftmaster slow down near then end of travel like the Zap does?
 

edl

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yes - both going up and going down - it "learns" the travel and "learns" the force and then it knows when it is close to down and close to up - in between, it is (no exaggeration) almost twice as fast as our old opener (which may have just been a dog - althoug it was new)
 

G M

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Is it actually 30" long, mine will be here Tuesday but I am working on the home for it. The liftmaster instruction PDF is very lacking in information like that.
 

kbuhagiar

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edl said:
Pat - the Liftmaster jackshaft opener (which I HIGHLY recommend) can mount on either side and runs off of 110 v - would search the liftmster website to see if they have pdf instructions - the opener is probably 12" wide and 30" long - hope that helps - thanks, stephen

Stephen - glad to hear that you have had such success with a jackshaft opener. When I was doing research 2 months ago, jackshaft openers (by both Liftmaster and Wayne Dalton) were roundly panned on this board, with only a couple of folks expressing (underwhelming) satisfaction with the units. Still, I persisted, and spoke to four local garage door installers (including the one who put in my new door and opener) who all admitted that they could install a jackshaft opener, if I really REALLY wanted one, but that they had had nothing but problems with them. Now, I'm what you would call and early-adapter gadget-guy, and I really wanted one, but I felt I couldn't go against the advice of so many who had experience (mostly bad) with these things. I ended up getting a Liftmaster belt-drive with the DC motor and backup battery, and I am extremely pleased with it. This is probably without a doubt the quietest and smoothest opener on the market. But I still really wanted a jackshaft unit...I guess public opinion has improved dramatically in the last two months! :headscrat

Anyway, just my .03 cents! :beer:
 

bmwpower

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kbuhagiar said:
Stephen - glad to hear that you have had such success with a jackshaft opener. When I was doing research 2 months ago, jackshaft openers (by both Liftmaster and Wayne Dalton) were roundly panned on this board, with only a couple of folks expressing (underwhelming) satisfaction with the units. Still, I persisted, and spoke to four local garage door installers (including the one who put in my new door and opener) who all admitted that they could install a jackshaft opener, if I really REALLY wanted one, but that they had had nothing but problems with them. Now, I'm what you would call and early-adapter gadget-guy, and I really wanted one, but I felt I couldn't go against the advice of so many who had experience (mostly bad) with these things. I ended up getting a Liftmaster belt-drive with the DC motor and backup battery, and I am extremely pleased with it. This is probably without a doubt the quietest and smoothest opener on the market. But I still really wanted a jackshaft unit...I guess public opinion has improved dramatically in the last two months! :headscrat

Anyway, just my .03 cents! :beer:

You are probably referring to the COMMERCIAL Liftmaster jackshaft opener. The RESIDENTIAL Liftmaster jackshaft opener just came out a couple months ago and this is the one edl is referring to.
 

edl

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Ken - as long as you still have the C2 - nothing else really matters!! I'll trade you my opener for your car! Seriously, I am extremely pleased with it so far (bearing in mind I have had it only for a few weeks) - the best part is that no new panels are neede and the door opens only part way into the horizontal space - and my whole goal was high lifting the door so the side opener has real advantages - anyway, you'll be ready for something new in another couple of years and all the bugs will be worked out!
 
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PAToyota

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Thanks for the info. I've been leaning towards the Liftmaster. Seems that the Zap isn't quite as DIY friendly - as EDL says, the Liftmaster has all the bells and whistles whereas (from what I've seen so far) the Zap is more of a commercial level setup and you're left to figure out the addons yourself.

Don't know why I couldn't find it before, but found the Liftmaster instruction manuals here: Liftmaster Jackshaft Opener Instructions
 

nova65ss

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One thing to keep in mind with the LM is that it will not work with a drum larger than 6" in diameter. We tried installing one on a door with straight vert tracks (one that goes straight up no curve) and it would not work, had to use the Zap. Guess we should have read the directions first! I will say my Zap is much quieter than the LM on my other door.

Like EDL said the one benefit of the LM is the cost and it does come with everything including a light, remotes, photo eyes, and lock/ light switch on the wall control. You can wire a light to the Zap it but you must wire it and purchase a fixture, the LM is provided and much nicer. Overall you really can't go wrong with either. I would have to say if it is a shop the Zap is great on an attached garage the LM would be better. Here is a pic of it installed.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=72008#post72008


Jimmy
 
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bmwpower

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nova65ss said:
One thing to keep in mind with the LM is that it will not work with a drum larger than 6" in diameter. We tried installing one on a door with straight vert tracks (one that goes straight up no curve) and it would not work, had to use the Zap. Guess we should have read the directions first! I will say my Zap is much quieter than the LM on my other door.

Like EDL said the one benefit of the LM is the cost and it does come with everything including a light, remotes, photo eyes, and lock/ light switch on the wall control. You can wire a light to the Zap it but you must wire it and purchase a fixture, the LM is provided and much nicer. Overall you really can't go wrong with either. I would have to say if it is a shop the Zap is great on an attached garage the LM would be better. Here is a pic of it installed.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=72008#post72008


Jimmy

****, why can't you use it with drums larger than 6"?? I've got smaller doors (9x7), they have larger drums and when they go up, they curve back 1 panel. I was hoping to use two of these openers.
 

nova65ss

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You know I don't totally understand it either. I installed one last week took about 2 hours only to find it wouldn't go all the way up. Stops about 3/4 high everytime. LM says it has something to do with the RPM sensor, the drum size somehow affects the RPM's of the motor. Took another hour for me to tear it all down, I was not a happy camper. You will be plenty pleased with the Zap.
 

bmwpower

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nova65ss said:
You know I don't totally understand it either. I installed one last week took about 2 hours only to find it wouldn't go all the way up. Stops about 3/4 high everytime. LM says it has something to do with the RPM sensor, the drum size somehow affects the RPM's of the motor. Took another hour for me to tear it all down, I was not a happy camper. You will be plenty pleased with the Zap.

Yea, I was reading the manual after I posted and saw the sensor and wondered if that was the cuplrit. Hopefully it's one of those things that will be reworked in revision #2 of the product.
 

G M

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Anyone know what the difference is between the 3800 and the 3800C

There are manuals for both on the website.
http://www.liftmaster.com/cw/instr_man/0,1064,uid-impvbWJhZ2trZg==_2167,00.html


Also will this work with tapered drums, I had emailed liftmaster and they sent me a bunch of info and it stated

"Units do not work under the following conditions:

· Doors using double tracks
· Reverse wound installations
· Full vertical lift doors
· Doors using any tapered drum like a vertical lift drum (Chain/Sprocket)
· Break away doors (Is a commercial or rolling type door)
· Bent torsions bars (must use Sprocket and Chain kit)
· Doors weighting over 650lbs


But in the online instructions it says "it will work with 4-6" drums, not to be used on tapered drums over 6""
 
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Ed and Sandra

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PAToyota said:
I haven't gotten around to installing openers on my garage doors yet - mainly because it is more of a workshop than a garage that I'm driving in and out of daily. But I put the outlets in for convential garage door openers - middle of the door up at the head of where the door comes to when open.

I've been reading the threads on here about the jackshaft openers such as the Zap and Liftmaster and am starting to think about going that way. So I'm going to have to do some rewiring here...

Do the jackshaft openers mount to a particular side? Or either side? Just wondering where I should put the outlet. Are there installation instructions for these openers online anywhere?

Many thanks for the input. :thumbup:

Hopefully you've seen the write-up about our garage and our use of the ZAP units. We absolutely love those things.

http://edsandra.com/esgeneral/Garage1.htm

Here's the ZAP website and they have excellent, and we do mean excellent installation documentation - first rate (see the downloads): http://www.zap-uk.com/ We can also attest they have terrific customer support to deal with any questions and problems.

Best regards,
Ed and Sandra
 
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bmwpower

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Ed and Sandra said:
Hopefully you've seen the write-up about our garage and our use of the ZAP units. We absolutely love those things.

http://home.carolina.rr.com/esgeneral/Garage1.htm

Here's the ZAP website and they have excellent, and we do mean excellent installation documentation - first rate (see the downloads): http://www.zap-uk.com/ We can also attest they have terrific customer support to deal with any questions and problems.

Best regards,
Ed and Sandra

Yea, but what about the hokey 3 button control panel you had to replace? I don't think I like the factory control panel either.
 

nova65ss

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You have to install the push button that comes with it as it is part of the control unit, the res version only has one button. You can also wire a standard push button in conjunction with it as well, no biggie. On the one we did the other day we put the control box next to the door and tied the regular wall control into it so you could access it from the entry door into the house. A standard door bell button will work just fine.
 

nova65ss

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G M said:
Anyone know what the difference is between the 3800 and the 3800C

Also will this work with tapered drums, I had emailed liftmaster and they sent me a bunch of info and it stated


But in the online instructions it says "it will work with 4-6" drums, not to be used on tapered drums over 6""


There several different size tapered drums, from talking to them the other day as long as it is not larger than 6" in dia it will be fine. Straight vertical lift doors use a tapered drum that is about 9" in dia.
 

edl

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Don't know anything about the ZAP - but I will say that my application is residential - attached garage, and is not just vertical - in my application, the LM is working just great - not to say the Zap wouldn't, just don't knwo anything about it.

I will say the LM instructions leave a little to be desired - for example, the lock is not noted as a "required" step - but it is, and the travel and force won't set it it isn't wired in...thanks, stephen
 

Ed and Sandra

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bmwpower said:
Yea, but what about the hokey 3 button control panel you had to replace? I don't think I like the factory control panel either.

You misunderstood the point about the controls in our write-up. We were talking about replacing the previous low rise units' control boxes with push bars (which were ugly). The three button (door bell type) unit we fabricated is positioned by the entrance to the living quarters. Each of those buttons operates a different door. The standard ZAP control boxes are positioned beside each of the garage doors and look fine there. nova65ss is right on target with his comments about the subject.

Best regards,
Ed and Sandra
 
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twostory

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Duluth, Georgia
I was looking at the LM 3800, but my door is 18ft wide by 11 ft high. Will the LM3800 work with a door this big?

My door lifts by normal torsion spring, with fairly small small drums (probably less than 6 inch, but I will measure them tonight). The door also goes up and turns horziontal like a normal garage door.

Thanks,
 

nova65ss

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twostory said:
I was looking at the LM 3800, but my door is 18ft wide by 11 ft high. Will the LM3800 work with a door this big?

My door lifts by normal torsion spring, with fairly small small drums (probably less than 6 inch, but I will measure them tonight). The door also goes up and turns horziontal like a normal garage door.

Thanks,


The manual says it will work up to 14' high but only 180 s.f. you are at 198 s.f. so I would say no it will not work.


Oh and the C on the Model 3800C designates Canada, voltage is different I believe.
 

JMURiz

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Anyone know a good place to get one? I've seen them as low as the ~$400 mark online...but you know how that can be...never know if it's a legit deal etc.

I'm assuming you can install the 3800 yourself, about as 'hard' as a normal opener install, right?
 

G M

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nova65ss said:
The manual says it will work up to 14' high but only 180 s.f. you are at 198 s.f. so I would say no it will not work.


Oh and the C on the Model 3800C designates Canada, voltage is different I believe.

Voltage is the same here, might be a different ratings thing like ULC vs CSA
 
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PAToyota

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Well, finally went out and climbed up on a ladder to do some measuring per the Liftmaster instructions. Not going to work...

Everything passed muster except for the requirement that there be at least 8" from the end of the torsion bar to any obstruction. Between walls and support beams that just isn't going to happen...

Guess I have to settle for a conventional opener...
 

JoshNSCD

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In regards to the Zap operator, I would like to note that I have 15 years experience working with the Zap product. I have installed them, provided installation training, trouble shooting assistance over the phone for anyone that has required it, and sold the product successfully.

The Zap operator is one of the quietest, safest, simplest to install garage door operator on the market today. The newer residential Zap model 8825-R4operator contains a 1HP motor with all metal gears in the gear box, so no plastic. With only 2 pulleys and 1 belt, there are minimal amount of moving components, which means not only is it very quiet, but the less moving components, the less issues or parts to replace over time. Who wants an operator with multiple chains and sprockets, which is very noisy, but also creates more issues in the future.

The Zap 8825-R4 model operator can operate doors from 6x6 in size all the way up to 14x14, that includes large custom wood doors and carriage house doors with windows, etc. It is setup to operate the above size doors with low headroom track (low ceiling with double radius track), standard lift (door curves back in the track right at the top of the door opening), high lift (door travels up the wall a ways before it curves back in the track), and full vertical lift (door goes straight up). It also operates doors with the springs mounted up front above the door opening as well as doors with the springs in the rear.

The cycle count on the Zap 8825-R4 residential model operator is continuous. This means it can be operated all day everyday. There is no thermal overload on the Zap 8825-R4. This means it cannot overheat. This operator contains a DC motor, which runs at a very low voltage. That means you get a soft start and soft stop feature when it runs your door. This will allow for less stress on your door related components.

The Zap residential 8825-R4 model operator includes the latest safety technology called "Safety Sense." This technology turns your entire door into a safety device. This is achieved by the Zap motor constantly monitoring the motor current as it operates, so any issues your door encounters as it operates, the Zap will recognize them and react accordingly. For example, if your door is closing and strikes an obstruction such as a garden tool left propped up in the door track and it is not breaking the safety beam at the bottom, the operator will sense this, stop and reverse back to fully open. Other comparable operators would continue pushing on the object, damage the bottom section of your door, the item it's pushing on, and throw the door cables off of your door.

The Zap residential 8825-R4 model operator only requires 4 3/4" of side clearance. It never exceeds the height of your door's cable drum, so you know if your spring system fits with no issues, so will the Zap operator. The Zap operator can be mounted on either side of the door. It can also be mounted in a standard position, such as straight up and down, horizontal, and even upside down if needed.

The Zap 8825-R4 is UL325 approved for residential use and is backed by a very attractive mfg. warranty.

To sum it up, I would highly recommend the Zap 8825-R4 residential model operator over comparable side mount operators for the fact that it mounts to the spring shaft only, not to your header or wall area. You will always hear your door running over the Zap. It is very safe, no multiple sprockets and chains just 2 pulleys and 1 belt, and the power and sensitivity are adjustable so your door does not need to be "perfect" running. The operator has a 1HP motor so it can run large residential doors with various track configurations. Also, it is a very simple operator to install. Definitely the operator of choice for the DIY's.

If you have questions, comments, or would like more information on the Zap operator, please feel free to message me here or visit our website http://www.northshorecommercialdoor.com

We stock the full Zap product line and would be happy to assist you. Thank you!
 
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