Zephyr Industrial "X" Hardness Phillips Bits

[Submariner733]

Has anyone experienced Zephyr Industrial "X" Hardness Phillips bits damaging screw heads?

I started using Zephyr power bits a few months ago and have occasionally observed both Phillips and ACR-B-Phillips (PH2 and PH3 bits) damaging Phillips screw heads before the clutch releases and thus leading to cam-out damage. This has occurred with clutch settings as low as "6". I work facilities maintenance in a 60 year-old hospital, so many fasteners have quite the history. Often fasteners are partially obstructed and difficult to drive the bit "square" into the head.

Running Milwaukee M12 Hex 2-Speed Screwdriver, no impact drivers.

The ACR-B bits grab very well when using a 1/4 square-drive to hex adaptor with ratchet.

Many on GJ extol the virtues of Vessel JIS bits, I tested the Vessel Impact Ball Torsion Bits and the bits performed worse than the Zephyr Non-ACR bits. Surprisingly cam-out with the Vessel Bits occurred while removing a relatively new, <10 yrs-old Isolated Electrical Panel Cover.

I have been deciding where to proceed next. Zoro does not offer Zephyr "A" Intermediate Hardness Phillips. Contacted Omega Technologies and many Zephyr part numbers have a 20-22 week lead-time.

Looking for ideas and suggestions.

​

 

[Fixr]

Has anyone experienced Zephyr Industrial "X" Hardness Phillips bits damaging screw heads?

I started using Zephyr power bits a few months ago and have occasionally observed both Phillips and ACR-B-Phillips (PH2 and PH3 bits) damaging Phillips screw heads before the clutch releases and thus leading to cam-out damage. This has occurred with clutch settings as low as "6". I work facilities maintenance in a 60 year-old hospital, so many fasteners have quite the history. Often fasteners are partially obstructed and difficult to drive the bit "square" into the head.

Running Milwaukee M12 Hex 2-Speed Screwdriver, no impact drivers.

The ACR-B bits grab very well when using a 1/4 square-drive to hex adaptor with ratchet.

Many on GJ extol the virtues of Vessel JIS bits, I tested the Vessel Impact Ball Torsion Bits and the bits performed worse than the Zephyr Non-ACR bits. Surprisingly cam-out with the Vessel Bits occurred while removing a relatively new, <10 yrs-old Isolated Electrical Panel Cover.

I have been deciding where to proceed next. Zoro does not offer Zephyr "A" Intermediate Hardness Phillips. Contacted Omega Technologies and many Zephyr part numbers have a 20-22 week lead-time.

Looking for ideas and suggestions.

​

My first thought is to get away from Phillips wherever and whenever you can. As I understand it, they were specifically designed to cam out when being used on an assembly line under very specific conditions before power drivers with clutches were normal. In my experience, it's a crapshoot whether the bit will tear up the screw, or the other way around. I think you are looking for a quite variable unicorn.

 

[Wamsutta]

Often fasteners are partially obstructed and difficult to drive the bit "square" into the head.

​

That's your problem right there. The screwdriver bit needs to fit the fastener perfectly and engaging the fastener straight up and down is very important. I would hate to be in your situation.

 

[merkyworks]

I’ve been looking at getting this wobble P#2 for those partially obstructed occasion.

 

[KnurledNut]

Zephyr offers three grades of hardness:
X- considered industrial and is the hardest for hard fasteners like self tapping screws.
A- lower hardness for softer fasteners like machine screws
I- intermediate hardness and is special order

Letting a hard bit cam out in a soft fastener will do damage to the fastener. Zephyr and Apex industrial grade bits are both very hard. Using a power screwdriver instead of an impact driver will increase the risk of this happening. ACR ribs amplify this damage. If the screws are decades old, old pattern Phillips bits may actually fit better.

 

[Submariner733]

For the past few years I had been using Qualtool bits. Fastener damage occurred less often and to a much lesser extent with the Qualtool bits. The Qualtool just were not biting hard enough in marginal hardware, especially in compromised PH3 fasteners (mostly attributed to a legacy of "pocket tool heroes" using their Klein 11-in-1 PH2 bit on commercial door hinge hardware).

Perhaps the Qualtool bits are softer than Zephyr:
Qualtool 2025 catalog: "Fastener friendly balanced hardness for durability"
Qualtool 2003 catalog: "hardened to the optimal “Rockwell C” value"
These statements are suitably vague to accommodate most everyone's' echo chamber.

Poor quality provided the final nudge to seek alternatives. Received a few power bits that would not chuck. Required Dremel grinding and polishing on the hex-end to make usable.

 

[KnurledNut]

For the past few years I had been using Qualtool bits. Fastener damage occurred less often and to a much lesser extent with the Qualtool bits. The Qualtool just were not biting hard enough in marginal hardware, especially in compromised PH3 fasteners (mostly attributed to a legacy of "pocket tool heroes" using their Klein 11-in-1 PH2 bit on commercial door hinge hardware).

Perhaps the Qualtool bits are softer than Zephyr:
Qualtool 2025 catalog: "Fastener friendly balanced hardness for durability"
Qualtool 2003 catalog: "hardened to the optimal “Rockwell C” value"
These statements are suitably vague to accommodate most everyone's' echo chamber.

Poor quality provided the final nudge to seek alternatives. Received a few power bits that would not chuck. Required Dremel grinding and polishing on the hex-end to make usable.

Qualtool is underrated IMO. I did have the same issue as you but with the colored ThunderBay series nutsetters.
I did commercial hardware installation in the past. It’s super tough on bits. Qualtool Qryptonite held up well to impact use.

 

[rust in the eye]

For the past few years I had been using Qualtool bits. Fastener damage occurred less often and to a much lesser extent with the Qualtool bits. The Qualtool just were not biting hard enough in marginal hardware, especially in compromised PH3 fasteners (mostly attributed to a legacy of "pocket tool heroes" using their Klein 11-in-1 PH2 bit on commercial door hinge hardware).

Perhaps the Qualtool bits are softer than Zephyr:
Qualtool 2025 catalog: "Fastener friendly balanced hardness for durability"
Qualtool 2003 catalog: "hardened to the optimal “Rockwell C” value"
These statements are suitably vague to accommodate most everyone's' echo chamber.

Poor quality provided the final nudge to seek alternatives. Received a few power bits that would not chuck. Required Dremel grinding and polishing on the hex-end to make usable.

I'm hoping the compromised hardware is getting swapped out when you are servicing things.
An old mechanic's trick is to apply a small bit of valve grinding paste on worn Allen head fasteners. I've done it with beat up Phillips too, it helps, sometimes.
I'd think removal with an impacting driver would help as well.
Final thought is to use "soft" bits and change them out often.
Good luck, have fun.

 

[Odd-job]

I too run those hard Zephyr ACR bits on the two speed M12 non fuel screwdriver. They'll usually win against the fastener for better or for worse which I think equates to them lasting longer with less deformation. They do work well for what I would call old school phillips vs my variety of vessel and other Japanese sourced bits. More often than not I am running the clutch setting at 2 at first and then increasing the clutch setting (also on speed 1). Running at 6 + having the fuel screwdriver is probably going to murder some screws.

Also to better the odds of getting square on the fastener I have longer bits and even run short bits on a m12 ratchet. Not sure if that is an option.