Zero Turn Mower Choices

[Ibanez540r]

So we just purchased a new house and get the keys the first week of June. It is a 2.6 acre lot of pretty much wide open lawn. Subtract a 1/2 acre pond. Pretty flat with a rolling swale in one area that runs towards the pond. I'm coming from a 1/2 acre with a regular rider 42" deck. I do not want to spend hours on end cutting the new place with a rider.

So, I need to get a zero turn. I use to do property management and ran some scags, gravely, diesel kubota, and a harris. I'm pretty sure I want to stick with one of the many commercial mowers compared to a low end residential unless I get overwhelming opinions that a resid. will be just fine. ..my wife is affiliated with MTD and I can get approx. 25% off one of their products :-/

Anyway, I don't have 7-10K to spend on a new one so scanning the used market, craigslist, etc. I'm trying to determine what size deck, or a minimum size, I should be considering. Opinions? Time to cut difference between say a 48" & a 61" ?

Here's the latest options within financial reason (all fairly closely priced):

2012 or 2013 Gravely 52" ZT 52HD with 24HP Kawasaki 83 hours

2015 or 2016 Scag Freedom Z 48" Briggs & Stratt 26HP 134 hours

2010 Scag Tiger Cat 61" 25HP Kohler 600 hours

 

[Sco Deac]

Are there many trees you need to mow around? If not a larger rider/small tractor will decrease your cutting time from your current rider and be versatile.

Can you use your MTD purchase program benefit on a Cub Cadet? A pro z at 25% off the mark would be a fine way to go. They come with the Kawasaki engine.

For a pro quality at a lower price point, the Bad Boy mowers are hard to beat. I don't see them often but every now and then you can find some good deals on a Jacobson.

 

[Mhyde52]

The price difference between equivalent models, with different deck sizes, is/should be negligible. That said, I would almost always go with 60"/61".They usually have more deck sticking past the tires on the trim side. They usually have larger wheels/tires than the 48"/52" mowers.

 

[Mhyde52]

Of your above choices I would do the tiger over the freedom z, any day. I can't give an opinion on gravely.

 

[kiser312]

Of the mowers you have listed I would buy the Scag Tiger cat. Its more commercial than the Freedom Z. The most important difference is probably in the hydraulic system. Tiger cat has a hydro unit that can be rebuilt and and different type of drive system than the Freedom Z. The next important difference is in the motor options. Tiger cat has better motor options than the freedom Z. I own a tiger cat and it has been a solid mower.

 

[gdocktor3]

As long as you don't have a lot of tight spots, get the 61" Scag Tiger Cat. Otherwise get the 52" Gravely. Kawasaki and Kohler motors will run you a good long time. Never cared for Briggs. I have a Scag 23hp Kohler with over 1000 hours, a Toro with 17hp Kawasaki over 500 hrs and Scag 48" with 14hp Kawasaki over 500 hrs and other than basic maintenance, I haven't had any issues knock on wood. Kawasaki and Kohler motors are generally good for 1200-1500 hours before running into problems. Keep everything else greased, belts tight, blades sharp, fluids fresh and level and you will never have an issue using it as your personal mower. I've been doing landscaping since I was 14, on my own since 22 and I'm now 30. The Toro mentioned above was my first mower and still runs strong. It's loaded up in my truck now for when I leave work.

 

[kiser312]

Worked doing landscaping while going thru college. I have seen numerous Kohler command engines with over 3,000 hours. The Tiger Cat you are looking to buy has the Kohler Command.

 

[bobcatdan]

Personally a big fan of kawasaki small engines and with that one being lowest hours. I run a 61" deck and I honestly think it's a sow.

 

[Packard V8]

Since you've operated other big mowers in the past, it is to be hoped you can evaluate the mechanical condition of a used mower. Buying one is a **** shoot and the replacement of any major component will put you right back with where a new machine would have been.

Are there many trees you need to mow around? If not a larger rider/small tractor will decrease your cutting time from your current rider and be versatile.

Agree, a ZT mower is a wonderfully specialized machine and difficult to beat for just mowing. However, can you ever see needing to move dirt, rototill a garden, blow snow? A small tractor should not be overlooked as an option for a 2.6 acre place.

jack vines

 

[Firebrick43]

I am an exmark man (also own a ferris) but I have delt with enough mowers give an informed opinon.

Most commercial mowers are literally a sum of their parts. Controls and decks have small differences that users "prefer" but all the manufactures use common engine and drive train manufacures which are the guts of the machine. Main engine manufactures are Briggs vanguard, Kawasaki, and kohler. While the old horzontal kohlers were good engines IMHO the current vertical v. Twins aren't worth a hill of beans. The Kawasakis are the best with the vanguards pulling a close second.

As far as drives go I prefer individual pumps and Parker wheel motors and would give the tiger cat my vote. However the integrated drive units are becoming the standard. They used to be junk but hydro gear has been making some durable commercial grade units of late and so far have held up ok. The minimum quality level in my opinion is the zt-3100. It has machined gears where the lower zt-2800(and below) has stamped gears. The gravely ZT HD is the minimum quality unit I would consider, neighbor has one and it's a good mower, uncle has a woods mower that has been flawless. Gravely make the woods mowers and his is equivalent to the pro260

I wouldn't touch the freedom z due to the ****** installed.

In my mind the most important aspect of choosing a mower of good quality is a good dealer that is close.

 

[WhiffySpark]

The most important thing is what kind of grass are you cutting

 

[jd_1138]

Worked doing landscaping while going thru college. I have seen numerous Kohler command engines with over 3,000 hours. The Tiger Cat you are looking to buy has the Kohler Command.

Briggs has the Vanguard line that are really good too.

I can't stand zero turns, myself. They beat the **** out of your back. I'd rather enjoy the process of mowing atop a lawn tractor with a beer in the cupholder, and it gets me out of the house and into fresh air. lol.

 

[jd_1138]

I am an exmark man (also own a ferris) but I have delt with enough mowers give an informed opinon.

Most commercial mowers are literally a sum of their parts. Controls and decks have small differences that users "prefer" but all the manufactures use common engine and drive train manufacures which are the guts of the machine. Main engine manufactures are Briggs vanguard, Kawasaki, and kohler. While the old horzontal kohlers were good engines IMHO the current vertical v. Twins aren't worth a hill of beans. The Kawasakis are the best with the vanguards pulling a close second.

As far as drives go I prefer individual pumps and Parker wheel motors and would give the tiger cat my vote. However the integrated drive units are becoming the standard. They used to be junk but hydro gear has been making some durable commercial grade units of late and so far have held up ok. The minimum quality level in my opinion is the zt-3100. It has machined gears where the lower zt-2800(and below) has stamped gears. The gravely ZT HD is the minimum quality unit I would consider, neighbor has one and it's a good mower, uncle has a woods mower that has been flawless. Gravely make the woods mowers and his is equivalent to the pro260

I wouldn't touch the freedom z due to the ****** installed.

In my mind the most important aspect of choosing a mower of good quality is a good dealer that is close.

Aren't there even some that come with diesel engines? Are those worth the extra price?

 

[Sco Deac]

Aren't there even some that come with diesel engines? Are those worth the extra price?

Yes there are several with diesels. The Kabota diesel is in many brands. The price difference depends on how you intend to use the machine and how easy your access is to non-highway fuel.

 

[wsurf4me]

As others have said these mowers are a sum of their parts. I would look at which parts are most important to you then go shopping for who uses those parts. I shopped around last year and ended up going with BobCat.

 

[jd_1138]

I saw a truck parked on the side of the road, and he was driving a Toro zero turn off the trailer. And he had a Toro push mower too. I assume he's a pro landscaper unless he was just mowing his parent's lawn or something. That's a homeowner-grade model? Unless they have a commercial line, too?

 

[Ibanez540r]

Good responses guys.. BTW since this is the garage journal I'll add that I'm getting a 3 car attached and a 2 car detached (with super high ceiling - perfect for me to finally get a lift)

Anyway to answer some of the questions.. not really any trees of concern to maneuver. The border is lined with Cleveland Pears every 50 feet or so in the open grass - no big deal. I just went past the place again and noticed for the first time it isn't as flat as I recalled. There is a good portion of flat, but there are also some more slopes and rolls in and around the bank of the pond then I recalled. Concerns me a little with the Tiger Cat's 61" deck and starts to lean me more towards the gravely with the 52". As a few mentioned above, I learned more about the freedom z and scratched it off the list.

So, Tiger Cat is def. the highest end machine. Concern with it is the 61" deck being too big for the terrain and also that the dealer selling it at "600 hours" said the hour meter stopped working. 600 hours is their estimation based on the service records and the owners known use (bought it new in 2011).

The Gravely is a step down, has the decent zt-3100, and the better Kaw engine with less hours.

The Scag is listed for $3900. A great deal and I think priced low due to the hour meter situation. The Gravely guy has it listed for $3500 and said he's willing to take less. Said it is actually being maintenance and wants to wait to negotiate after he gets the bill.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Aren't there even some that come with diesel engines? Are those worth the extra price?

I think so... Used a Kubota Diesel ZD25 with 60" pro deck for many years. St. Augustine grass grows crazy thick in Houston, especially when your septic sprinklers are constantly watering it!

 

[kd3pc]

Scag and now eXMark...the scag would be my go to, compared to the others ...

 

[Firebrick43]

Aren't there even some that come with diesel engines? Are those worth the extra price?

Diesel engines in small equipment is very opinionated. From experience of ownership small farm equipment and operating some grasshopper 722d (with kabota engines) I have formed the opinion that they are not worth the money.

Number one reason is noise. A little diesel running at 3600 rpm are unbearably loud to me.

Number two is that fuel savings in small lightly loaded equipment is iffy if it will payback the initial higher purchase price.

Number three is maintence cost. Diesel engines are typically well noted for their longevity and for the core iron this is true. A air cooled Kawasaki is going to give you 1500+ hours and a diesel 3000+ hours. However the dirty secret is that most diesels require fuel pump replacement/overhaul and injectors about half life between overhauls. So at 1500 hours (it may be 500 hours each way) expect nearly 1000 dollars for a injection pump/lift pump/and injectors. Low fuel quality will accelerate this and modern low sulfur diesel fuel ***** for mechanical injection pumps. I highly recommend adding lube to the fuel. Also remember you have coolant changes, themostats, water pumps, belts, radiators that will plug, real alternators, bigger batteries, all accessories that will need maintence that an aircooled will not.

For nearly the same cost I can install a completely new aircooled engine if I buy from small engine warehouse or Tulsa.

On another note at 3000+ hours when the diesel needs overhauled its really expensive (much more than a aircooled motor change) and likely the mower frame and deck is likely to be falling apart any ways. Larger farm tractors and construction equipment with 8000-10000 hour tbo tip the scales to diesels. Cars and pickups (not used for 50%+time trailer towing) I have never seen diesels pan out on cost basis. I understand you guys use that to justify it to your wives and I won't tell them otherwise. (I understand the torque on a diesel truck is very nice to have, I am strictly speaking economics).

Last reason I don't like small diesels in mowers or small utility tractors is the start harder in cooler weather. I have to start my mowers sometimes in the winter to rearrange things, the Kawasaki has never failed to start except the one fall I forgot to change the 30 weight oil out. ZT actually work really well to push snow on pavement. My chore tractor is a gasser for this reason.

If you do buy a mower with a diesel get a cat/Perkins. They are my bread and butter

 

[kd3pc]

^^^ I am in the diesel camp for small engine stuff, especially boats. I see 4-5,000 hours quite often in diesel mowers and small orchard tractors - post 1980's units. Prior to that it is not unusual to see twice that in perkins or Lehman/Ford tractors and boats.

My scag had over 3K hours when I bought it, and almost twice that when I sold it. My eXmark has almost 3500 hours and other than fuel/oil filters and an air filter it has been quite reliable. Another eXmark did have to have a rear hydraulic motor replaced/rebuilt at 2500 hours, as that one was run on a bank with low fluid mowing pond walls and damns all day - would not pin that on the mower just a yahoo not checking levels every day.

None of the post 1980 stuff has issues with cold start, most have glow/preheat.

Overhaul is seldom needed if clean fuel and regular maintenance is done.

 

[Firebrick43]

Your average user with 5 acres is going to take 30+ years to build 6000 hours. Time can be more detrimental to parts as hours to things such as seals, diaphragms, corrosion in cooling systems and gaskets. A year ago I was given a 722d grasshopper. A drive is toast which is nla. The engine has several issues and so does the deck. Is it really worth the hours to get it going even if I value my labor at zero? Parts availability is really going to drop off.

move north, most diesels are very hard starting at 0 and below and high hours ones need plugged in or crack(aka either)

 

[rmasonjr]

Make sure to get a fabricated deck and not a stamped deck. I have a John Deere with a stamped deck and it is slightly warped.

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

 

[WhiffySpark]

I saw a truck parked on the side of the road, and he was driving a Toro zero turn off the trailer. And he had a Toro push mower too. I assume he's a pro landscaper unless he was just mowing his parent's lawn or something. That's a homeowner-grade model? Unless they have a commercial line, too?

Toro is a HUGE company. They own exmark mowers and recently purchased boss snow plows. Exmark and toro is basically the same except the decks are slightly different. An exmark ultracut is legendary in fescue.

I just brought a 36 Deere hydro walk behind. Next week I'll be buying a 60" 915 Deere. The exmark and 7 iron are two of the best decks for fescue.

Scan or hustler are solid choices as well. Gravely has been having clumping problems.

But this all depends on grass type and location for

 

[Alchymist]

Just happened to grab a couple mowing pics this evening, so thought I'd share. This lawn used to be pastureland. That's a Big Dog Alpha sitting on top of the hill. It replaced a Cub Cadet rider and I never looked back.

 

[Moosefire66]

Just my .02, I'd get a 48 over any other size, you'll spend maybe 15 minutes more cutting as opposed to a 61, but it's more nimble, it's much easier to get on a standard trailer, less blades, less belts, less grease points, etc. You can also get away with a smaller engine, saving money and fuel. I've found most fence gates can be easily modified to accommodate a 48 deck, where as if you get a 61, you'll basically have to put in a car gate to get it into yards...

I'm not a professional by any means, and I don't know the difference between makes and models so take it for what it's worth.

I own a snapper pro 48" with a 26hp kaw

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[Ibanez540r]

I forgot to respond this is in NE Ohio with kentucky blue grass and fescue

 

[bry@n]

Just happened to grab a couple mowing pics this evening, so thought I'd share. This lawn used to be pastureland. That's a Big Dog Alpha sitting on top of the hill. It replaced a Cub Cadet rider and I never looked back.

did you just go in circles?



OP,

I have a 2012 Tiger Cat that I got off of Clist with 100 hours on it. Guy used it for his 2 acre property. I paid 5k. I preferred the 52" as I have some slopes and trees to go around. Mine also has a 27hp Koehler engine.

 

[Alchymist]

did you just go in circles?

Spiral, actually. Start cutting in the center, just keep going round. Alternate patterns every time I mow. Up/down, then right/left, then diagonal to left, then diagonal to right, spiral, and then start over.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

A lot depends on the poperty. How smooth is the lawn? How crowded with obstacles? Most ZT's start out in the low 40" deck size are still able to knock out 3 acres per hour of average cutting conditions. I'd say your cutting time difference between a 48" deck and a 61" on 2 acres will likely be a very negligable difference on that size property. A smaller machine may be more versitile in the overall task of keeping stuff green from getting too tall. I use a 44" deck ZT and it can get into tight enough spots that I haven't touched a push mower to finish missed spots since I bought it.

 

[Alchymist]

Another point to remember is the bigger the deck the easier to scalp on rough ground. I mowed with a 50" Cub before buying the Big Dog, and deliberately chose the 42" ZTR. Still finished the lawn faster than the rider, and less scalping. Much more maneuverable too.