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Zip, LP OSB Siding?

karoc

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It’s been yrs since I built my first small wood frame house. I see that the building technology has change with materials. I use to put up my plywood in past then cover it with roofing felt paper then wood siding. Now I see that these days some using OSB then house wrap over it. Next I see some using Zip and taping all seams. Add to confusion another product LP OSB with foil on one side. And some would put up 1/4 strip wood ran vertically so that when put up ext siding there would be an air gap between siding and OSB. So I guess what I’m asking is, is one really better than the other which it kinda looks like the cost is about same. Watching YouTube on this subject all is being sponsored by that product. My Shop/Home will be under one roof, nothing fancy just want to be comfortable and keep property taxes low as possible. Any websites, or other Youtubes that would provide good information. Thanks for any guidance
 
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billconner

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I think they are material cost and time questions. I'm going old school with diagonal rough sawn pine sheathing and 15 pound felt under board and batton. Lowest material cost short of adobe or maybe straw bale. Near other end is zip siding - sheathing, continuous insulation, and house wrap all in one. Fast! so saves labor. Lots of other options all permitted by code. Just tradeoffs.
 

bradpac

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It’s been yrs since I built my first small wood frame house. I see that the building technology has change with materials. I use to put up my plywood in past then cover it with roofing felt paper then wood siding. Now I see that these days some using OSB then house wrap over it. Next I see some using Zip and taping all seams. Add to confusion another product LP OSB with foil on one side. And some would put up 1/4 strip wood ran vertically so that when put up ext siding there would be an air gap between siding and OSB. So I guess what I’m asking is, is one really better than the other which it kinda looks like the cost is about same. Watching YouTube on this subject all is being sponsored by that product. My Shop/Home will be under one roof, nothing fancy just want to be comfortable and keep property taxes low as possible. Any websites, or other Youtubes that would provide good information. Thanks for any guidance
The way my logic works, I would stick with what you are comfortable with. The new Zip system is very popular right now, but I have seen with my own eyes what happens if you don't tape the seems and it gets wet. OSB and house wrap is probably my preference just for cost reasons over plywood, but there are plenty of 50-100 year-old houses still in good shape that use felt paper over a board or plywood underlayment. The installation is more important than the materials used.
 

Bretny

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I dont know your climate but I dont see that smart siding stuff lasting here in the northeast. Its basicly OSB with a hard skin, that you poke a bunch of holes into.

A non wood product for siding is always my first choice. Vinyl, cement or what ever else you can come up with. Wood weathers, cracks and just plain roots to quick here or needs alot of maintenance.
 

duneslider

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LP lost the court battle to ZIP so I doubt you can find the LP stuff, they had to pull it all off the shelves.

ZIP with the seams taped is the a great product. Nothing wrong with using tar paper though. I would say the Zip system is the premium system and it does need to be installed per manf instructions.

LP's siding is still available and it is a very good product.
 

acer66

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I dont know your climate but I dont see that smart siding stuff lasting here in the northeast. Its basicly OSB with a hard skin, that you poke a bunch of holes into.
I have scraps of Smart Siding laying around outside for years and the cut edges are as sharp as they were when I cut them.

With zip you get a sealed envelope not sure how that works with housewrap.
 

oldcarpenter

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I am old school, felt paper for dry in, vapor barrier. In my experience every job that had rot get through the siding and into the sheathing or framing had been built with house wrap. Hardi siding is a very good product although it is tough to work with. Make sure you use an additional strip of felt paper directly behind all the joints in the siding to deflect any water back to the face of the siding. Make sure the siding is 8” above grade as a minimum.
 

65ranchero

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When I had my garage built they used green Zip ( all seams tapped )for the walls and that red/brown Zip for the roof.
The only thing I requested different is to have the walls covered in house wrap after wall were Zipped.
The builder said he never did that before.
 

theoldwizard1

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I think they are material cost and time questions. I'm going old school with diagonal rough sawn pine sheathing and 15 pound felt under board and batton.
If you are going this way, you must add wind bracing to the corners. Not required when using OSB or Zip.
 

theoldwizard1

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It’s been yrs since I built my first small wood frame house. I see that the building technology has change with materials. I use to put up my plywood in past then cover it with roofing felt paper then wood siding. Now I see that these days some using OSB then house wrap over it. Next I see some using Zip and taping all seams.
Zip sheathing and Zip Tape eliminates the house wrap. Zip and tape might cost a bit more than OSB and Tyzvek house wrap, but it it saves labor cost.

I have seen some people use Grace water and ice shield for the entire roof. Good but $$$ !
 

billconner

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If you are going this way, you must add wind bracing to the corners. Not required when using OSB or Zip.
DWB - diagonal wood board sheathing - is both code acceptable - method #2 in the IRC - and probably superior to osb or zip. Looked at let in braces but wanted to put studs 24" on center, and LIB is ok for up to 16". And I only have to do two 4 ft sections of DWB each wall - but I'm doing entire frame. Just simpler and its less per sq ft than minimum osb (and twice as thick!)

PS: re labor - if you're retired and not earning and diy, there can't be labor cost savings. I can handle 1 x 8s and 10s by myself easier than 4 x 8 sheets; and 2 x 10 rafters easier than trusses. Its a whole different set of rules.
 

Kaizen

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I used zip on my garage after living in my leaky freezing cold house for 20 years. Even without insulation the zip stops air movement. As i built my garage myself it took a LONG time. My wall ply was exposed for 8-12 months before i got the roof on. zero damage or discoloration. I used 5/8 zip for roof and was not worried about leaks at all. I'd highly recommend it or a similar product. I cut out an unplanned window 2 years after installing it and the tape ripped the ply apart and never broke itself.
The latest thinking is making the house an envelope. So fully insulated outside the actual house. Think of it as 2 or more layers of walls and insulation. I'd recommend watching matt Reisinger on youtube. He has had a show for years and goes into all of this stuff probably more then you need to know. Yea they might sponsor him but dont discount the information. Matt goes to a lot of builds all over the country and other countries to see how real builders besides himself is doing it.
The way you know might be code but code is not up to most of our wants and needs.
 

billconner

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No disagreement Kaizen - but just fyi my build is not heated and will never be - just cold storage - so initial cost and local lumber are the rule.
 

kinglake

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LP lost the court battle to ZIP so I doubt you can find the LP stuff, they had to pull it all off the shelves.

ZIP with the seams taped is the a great product. Nothing wrong with using tar paper though. I would say the Zip system is the premium system and it does need to be installed per manf instructions.

LP's siding is still available and it is a very good product.

They might have a lost a lawsuit sometime, but LP offers a very similar product as ZIP. Waterproof OSB with the associated seam tape. LP's version is called Weatherlogic. Its easier to get locally for me, cost is slightly cheaper but not enough for that to be a factor in a decision between it and ZIP.

LP Weatherlogic.
 

Bretny

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Zip sheathing and Zip Tape eliminates the house wrap. Zip and tape might cost a bit more than OSB and Tyzvek house wrap, but it it saves labor cost.

I have seen some people use Grace water and ice shield for the entire roof. Good but $$$ !
This would imply there are labor costs at all.

I I have ice and water shield coming my whole roof. The cost is prety minimal of doing it your self vs redoing it again.
 

duneslider

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They might have a lost a lawsuit sometime, but LP offers a very similar product as ZIP. Waterproof OSB with the associated seam tape. LP's version is called Weatherlogic. Its easier to get locally for me, cost is slightly cheaper but not enough for that to be a factor in a decision between it and ZIP.

LP Weatherlogic.
It appears LP ended up paying Huber so they could keep selling their product. Huber's patent on the zip is pretty solid apparently.
 
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karoc

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Kaizen----My wall ply was exposed for 8-12 months before i got the roof on. zero damage or discoloration. I used 5/8 zip for roof and was not worried about leaks at all. I'd highly recommend it or a similar product
Kaizen you had no damage with this Weatherlogic sheathing? I also will be doing some of the work myself which my concerns were it being exposed to the rain.
 

rayra

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The way my logic works, I would stick with what you are comfortable with. The new Zip system is very popular right now, but I have seen with my own eyes what happens if you don't tape the seems and it gets wet. OSB and house wrap is probably my preference just for cost reasons over plywood, but there are plenty of 50-100 year-old houses still in good shape that use felt paper over a board or plywood underlayment. The installation is more important than the materials used.

The whole point of the Zip system is to tape it to provide a continuous watertight envelope on the structure. Don't tape the joints and it's no different from OSB. It is OSB with a water resistant outer skin.
 

billconner

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Driving around here I'd say the zip stuff uncovered lasts for several years. Some has been left exposed for over 3 and looks fine. Not a recommendation, just an observation.
 

Kaizen

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Kaizen----My wall ply was exposed for 8-12 months before i got the roof on. zero damage or discoloration. I used 5/8 zip for roof and was not worried about leaks at all. I'd highly recommend it or a similar product
Kaizen you had no damage with this Weatherlogic sheathing? I also will be doing some of the work myself which my concerns were it being exposed to the rain.
zip is made by huber i think. you are correct. my wood shows water stains but zip looked perfect. after adding tape you are quasi water tight giving you the ability to not stress. this was key in my build.
the weatherlogic from what i have seen looks pretty similar.
 

Kaizen

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No disagreement Kaizen - but just fyi my build is not heated and will never be - just cold storage - so initial cost and local lumber are the rule.
We all have to make these choices. i actually called a lumber mill locally asking about using rough sawn lumber. they told me it was going to cost more for me to use their rough lumber. so i went this way. i really do like the air tight feeling. going to be using zip r insulated panels on my old house to make it more comfortable.
 

ZRX61

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LP lost the court battle to ZIP so I doubt you can find the LP stuff, they had to pull it all off the shelves.

ZIP with the seams taped is the a great product. Nothing wrong with using tar paper though. I would say the Zip system is the premium system and it does need to be installed per manf instructions.

LP's siding is still available and it is a very good product.
The blue WeatherLogic stuff?
 

danfromsyr

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I have scraps of Smart Siding laying around outside for years and the cut edges are as sharp as they were when I cut them.
same here, the lp smart siding osb sheets untreated laying about in mud or full weather exposure as the doors to my "shed"
i say that loosely as the doors are quite loose in the frame
only clasped by some hooks & chain..
I have several things in the yard setup to test failure points.
like a building materials forensic graveyard
 

Kaizen

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I used zip on my garage after living in my leaky freezing cold house for 20 years. Even without insulation the zip stops air movement. As i built my garage myself it took a LONG time. My wall ply was exposed for 8-12 months before i got the roof on. zero damage or discoloration. I used 5/8 zip for roof and was not worried about leaks at all. I'd highly recommend it or a similar product. I cut out an unplanned window 2 years after installing it and the tape ripped the ply apart and never broke itself.
The latest thinking is making the house an envelope. So fully insulated outside the actual house. Think of it as 2 or more layers of walls and insulation. I'd recommend watching matt Reisinger on youtube. He has had a show for years and goes into all of this stuff probably more then you need to know. Yea they might sponsor him but dont discount the information. Matt goes to a lot of builds all over the country and other countries to see how real builders besides himself is doing it.
The way you know might be code but code is not up to most of our wants and needs.
In retrospect this was my build timeline to show what i'm talking about. I'm sure i degraded it with all this exposure but really didnt have a choice. I was off a year in my above statement. I did this by myself through 2 winters. Nothing like snowblowing out your garage to stop production.

Year 1 Oct-March walls (zip exposed both sides)
april-June Trusses and zip.
July-Sept Metal roof so roof zip covered
Year 2 Oct - Year 3 Aug wall zip covered one side at a time. Gables exposed for 2 full years+
 

Firebrick43

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To the OP. IMHO if using any other siding except vinyl, a rainscreen (wood strips run vertically) should be down no matter which system. And doubly so with wood siding. Vinyl sort of makes its own rainscreen.

As to zip/tyvek/building paper, well zip and tyvek there is little difference in end performance. Tyvek has good videos showing their product is superior but its without any siding. Zip is expensive, I think its a joke on a roof (vs synthetic roofing felt) but is a trade off on walls. Expensive product but less labor.

OSB in itself is windproof. Its the seams that cause issues. IMHO a foam gun can seal up seams from the inside just as well, and roofing felt/rainscreen can provide good water resistance but actually dry out. Tyvek stops breathing after a decade or so due to dirt getting in the micro pores and zip doesn't breathe at all. If using your own labor its up to you to decide.
 

yeldogt

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When I had my garage built they used green Zip ( all seams tapped )for the walls and that red/brown Zip for the roof.
The only thing I requested different is to have the walls covered in house wrap after wall were Zipped.
The builder said he never did that before.
The skin on the zip is the house wrap .. that is the reason you have to tape the seams.
 

billconner

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One of several reasons I prefer felt over housewrap: https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publicati...-felt-paper-and-weather-penetration-barriers/

Talk to builders who have done remodels and removed siding over both - inevitably the felt has out performed the housewrap.

I repaired wood clap siding, replacing 25% or so, on our (previous) 1904 house. Red rosin paper under siding. Almost all looked new.

15 pound felt for me.
 

yeldogt

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ZIP is nothing more than a premium OSB product that has been treated for moisture and covered with a proprietary house wrap ... you tape the seams so as to keep the house wrap continuous -- this is for Air (leaks). OSB leaks both air and water -- if you were to put a section under pressure you would see the bubbles underwater -- sort of like red oak. Plywood does not leak. They need to treat the OSB

ZIP at one time called it a wax product that was impregnated at manufacture ... not sure what or how much they say about it now. Builders love it as it saves having to put on a house wrap and it does have an extended exposure rating. With the vast majority of houses being vinyl -- that's all you need.

Lots of siding products now recommend a rain screen -- you will see various systems from 1x battens to a product like Hydrogap (Ben Obdyke). It's all about drying .. years ago thick felt over boards and cedar .. no problem drying. Now some of the products need to really dry.

DIY project should give a hard look at how long something can be exposed .. one of the newer coated OSB products may be better. I always do spray foam .. so the house wrap is less of a concern to me. I also like to use Plywood .. my last project was plywood with the Hydrogap and pre-painted Hardie
 

yeldogt

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One of several reasons I prefer felt over housewrap: https://bct.eco.umass.edu/publicati...-felt-paper-and-weather-penetration-barriers/

Talk to builders who have done remodels and removed siding over both - inevitably the felt has out performed the housewrap.

I repaired wood clap siding, replacing 25% or so, on our (previous) 1904 house. Red rosin paper under siding. Almost all looked new.

15 pound felt for me.
I am an old house guy .. have rebuilt over 50 old houses. That's an excellent article ...

The one thing people don't get -- all buildings leak. The key to making them last is allowing them to dry. Caulk is an enemy -- I wish each time someone picked up a tube of caulk they would see it as the devil. In most cases all it does it trap moisture ... old houses had no caulk. Siding was never caulked ... it gets flashed. Modern products like Hardie get caulked as much for looks as anything.

Also -- Felt paper is not the same as it was years ago. What they call 15 today was never available .. and 30 is not as thick as it was. It;s more like the old 15. When I redid the slate roof on my converted church a few years back I had to order "True" 30lb paper -- it's only available from one source .... made in Canada.
 

rayra

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To the OP. IMHO if using any other siding except vinyl, a rainscreen (wood strips run vertically) should be down no matter which system. And doubly so with wood siding. Vinyl sort of makes its own rainscreen.

As to zip/tyvek/building paper, well zip and tyvek there is little difference in end performance. Tyvek has good videos showing their product is superior but its without any siding. Zip is expensive, I think its a joke on a roof (vs synthetic roofing felt) but is a trade off on walls. Expensive product but less labor.

OSB in itself is windproof. Its the seams that cause issues. IMHO a foam gun can seal up seams from the inside just as well, and roofing felt/rainscreen can provide good water resistance but actually dry out. Tyvek stops breathing after a decade or so due to dirt getting in the micro pores and zip doesn't breathe at all. If using your own labor its up to you to decide.

Very strongly disagree. Your statement is only true when both are safely under some outer layer of material. You wrap a frame structure in just Tyvek and you are screwed the first big wind blow. You sheath your building in a product like zip and you are basically weather-protected for months at a time, whether it rains, snows, wind blows etc.

There are several builders on youtube that explain the differences and merits. RR Buildings in particular has many videos showing their process and are in fact just now posting a build series where they are using the other brand, the blue stuff, taped, and it is saving them from material supply delays in roofing metal, while the weather turns. And while they wait forever for windows and doors. The building is closed in, interior work can advance. Tyvek / thin film vapor barrier couldn't even begin to provide such protection.
 

Firebrick43

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Very strongly disagree. Your statement is only true when both are safely under some outer layer of material. You wrap a frame structure in just Tyvek and you are screwed the first big wind blow. You sheath your building in a product like zip and you are basically weather-protected for months at a time, whether it rains, snows, wind blows etc.

There are several builders on youtube that explain the differences and merits. RR Buildings in particular has many videos showing their process and are in fact just now posting a build series where they are using the other brand, the blue stuff, taped, and it is saving them from material supply delays in roofing metal, while the weather turns. And while they wait forever for windows and doors. The building is closed in, interior work can advance. Tyvek / thin film vapor barrier couldn't even begin to provide such protection.
Um, the words that you so graciously highlighted, says it all. "there is little difference in end performance" Meaning, yes, after the siding is up and shingles on.

I am not a Tyvek fan, but it does just fine(as does synthetic felt) with wind here on the edge of the prairie if you use cap nails. And yes, zip does give some weather resistance to prolonged construction. Or you could "get er done" and save a boat load. Hense why I said it was a trade off.

So what do you disagree on exactly? :headscrat

why would one deck a roof without roofing materials onsite? :headscrat

Having lived in Temecula CA for 5 years, I really don't remember having any issues with any rain in the LA area. Rains 35 days a year, and most of that is in December, Jan, and Feb. Rainiest is 6 days in January, that is our driest month here, and really no issues building houses without zip.

Could see Zip be a big plus in western Oregon and Washington State.

I find it odd as well your so adamant about saving money with PVC airlines, but tout one of the most expensive exterior sheathing products. :hellobye:

Or is it your just cross with me?
 
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karoc

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I used zip on my garage after living in my leaky freezing cold house for 20 years. Even without insulation the zip stops air movement. As i built my garage myself it took a LONG time. My wall ply was exposed for 8-12 months before i got the roof on. zero damage or discoloration.
This is or was my biggest fear. Thanks for taking time guys
 

reader2580

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why would one deck a roof without roofing materials onsite? :headscrat
In today's world of shortages they might have to delay the start of projects by several months if they wait to start until they have roofing materials on hand. They probably don't want to leave just the trusses with no sheathing for weeks or months.

The house I had built in 2001 the siding contractor was very backed up with work. The siding didn't go on until the house was nearly finished. The interior was 80% or 90% done when the siding finally got installed. It was seamless steel siding and they are not a lot of contractors to choose from for that. Vinyl it would have been easy to finding a siding crew.
 
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karoc

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I agree reader 2580, there is a shortage of material and not much of a good selection. So I have made a material list of what I need I will make purchases as I can with money on hand and if say 2x6's are straight, little to no bark, and not bleeding sap
 

NUTTSGT

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I used Zip on my addition as I caught the price break on it before it went up and OSB had already went up. I taped the seams and it blocked air movement.

I did a few other things to seal up the addition.

I piece of XPS foam in the block and sealed it with expanding foam to prevent any air filtration upward through the block into the wall or at the sill.

Used sill sealer under the sill plate, then caulked the inside edge.

Used expanding foam in the bottom 3 inches of the wall cavity to prevent air infiltration from the bottom of the wall sheathing.

2x6 walls with R19.
 
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