ZMotorsports Shop Projects 2.0

[zmotorsports]

My son and I had a small setback last night as we were setting the front end down onto the springs to measure for links. He had purchased 6.5" lift springs for a WJ but when we sat it down the front end was nose-diving severely. While sitting there scratching my head trying to figure out what we did wrong it hit me that the WJ's front axle had the coil spring buckets raised up off of the axle centerline by a good inch and a half or so. We don't have the axles any longer so I had to look at some pictures and guestimate the distance.

Now with the JK front axle, the spring bucket is sitting barely off the axle housing so I think that is where some of our lift ended up going. He is ordering the taller front springs today to get the front end back up where it is closer to the rear then we may have to fine tune it once we get it sitting down on all four tires/wheels at ride height.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I vote coil overs! The rest of your work demands some nice pogosticks.

 

[zmotorsports]

I vote coil overs! The rest of your work demands some nice pogosticks.

That would be nice, but sticking with the coils. I appreciate the sentiments though.

 

[lilscorpion]

That would be nice, but sticking with the coils. I appreciate the sentiments thought.[emoji481]

Could get a set of JKS ACOS instead of taller coils. They add 1.5” out of the box and can be dialed in to get perfect ride height.

 

[zmotorsports]

Could get a set of JKS ACOS instead of taller coils. They add 1.5” out of the box and can be dialed in to get perfect ride height.

That was our first objective as I've used ACOS on many of the JK builds that I have done but unfortunately they are not available for the WJ. I thought about buying a set for the ZJ's and playing with machining them to fit but that's a pretty expensive gamble if they don't and my son doesn't want to play with that at this time.

The JKS ACOS system is very versatile as it allows for changes in the Jeeps suspension height as we all know our Jeeps change from year to year, hell some even sooner than that.

Thanks for following along on my projects and commenting.

 

[Duker]

Thanks Paco. Yep, working in the shop with our kids is special. I figured I had better treasure it while it lasts as I have a feeling this next year is going to bring some major changes the zmotorsports household members.

Mike, I will “third” the comment about shop time with kids...I wish I had more of it. It has been fun reading about your son’s Jeep project.

Oh and as for your son.... we are also secretly hoping there is soon to be nuptials as well because we know at some point you turn into Grandpa Mike and then the modified Big Wheel, then go-cart then tweaked 80cc dirt bike projects are coming! [emoji51]



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[LXCam]

Mike, I will “third” the comment about shop time with kids...I wish I had more of it. It has been fun reading about your son’s Jeep project.

Oh and as for your son.... we are also secretly hoping there is soon to be nuptials as well because we know at some point you turn into Grandpa Mike and then the modified Big Wheel, then go-cart then tweaked 80cc dirt bike projects are coming! [emoji51]



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I'll second that! This grandpa gig is the coolest thing ever.

 

[Duker]

I'll second that! This grandpa gig is the coolest thing ever.

As my dad is fond of saying.... grandkids are God’s gift to them for not killing us kids!


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[LXCam]

As my dad is fond of saying.... grandkids are God’s gift to them for not killing us kids!


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You have nooooooo idear how much truth there is in that saying.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

On Friday afternoon my son sold his 2012 Harley Davidson Street Bob so we gained a small amount of space in the RV/storage bay as well as the mezzanine in the third bay of the attached garage from his accessories that went with it. After meeting the guy at the bank and the weather being somewhat better than it had been during the week I had my son help me blow the sprinkler system out for the season and then I went downstairs and blew/vacuumed the furnace out in preparation for the colder temps coming our way.



I love fall but I get depressed because I know winter is right around the corner and I HATE that white **** that falls on the ground and makes such a mess. I wish it would merely stay in the mountains and not on the valley floor where we have to shovel, plow and drive in it.

Very nice stuff as usual!

There is a cure so you don’t have to deal with the white stuff in winter !


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[lilscorpion]

Couple of questions/comments:

How did you put the 10* bend in the tube? .250 wall?


Think we’d all rather see you single point these link ends. [emoji12]


That’s a pro move!

 

[TerryH]

Gorgeous work as usual on the Jeep Mike! I can only wish that my kids wanted to spend time like that with me.

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, I will “third” the comment about shop time with kids...I wish I had more of it. It has been fun reading about your son’s Jeep project.

Oh and as for your son.... we are also secretly hoping there is soon to be nuptials as well because we know at some point you turn into Grandpa Mike and then the modified Big Wheel, then go-cart then tweaked 80cc dirt bike projects are coming! [emoji51]



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I'll second that! This grandpa gig is the coolest thing ever.

Thanks Duke/Cam. I have a suspicion there will be wedding bells in the future. I get the feeling she's ready right now but my son is trying to ensure all of his ducks are in a row. I've tried to convince him he is more prepared financially than his mother and I were when we got married but he worries about money. Huh, don't know where he got that from.

She is starting a new job today, she has been looking for something closer to where she lives and where we live for most of the summer. My son mentioned that he doesn't want to move very far from work nor his mother and I so she started looking for something up this way to be closer. I think they've both been talking marriage for a couple of months now just nothing set in "stone" yet.

I'm looking forward to grandkids but not for a bit yet, I don't want to rush it. I want them to enjoy each other and get used to each other before throwing kids into the equation.

Thanks for the comments guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[zmotorsports]

Very nice stuff as usual!

There is a cure so you don’t have to deal with the white stuff in winter !


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Thank you for the comments. I hear what you're saying but not willing to put up with that 115-degrees in the summer. Been offered a few jobs down the Arizona and Las Vegas way but just can't wrap my head around it. I love where I live, with the exception of the snow. I keep telling myself only about 10 more years then the wife and I can take off and head south during Jan and February to wheel with friends and then come back for spring in northern Utah. Kind of the best of both worlds.

Thank you for following along on my projects.

 

[Nlped]

That’s what my dad does! They have a site in Sunshine AZ that they winter in the motor home. They’ll actually be taking the motor home there when the finish in Moab at the end of the month. They have a Jeep club that they rode with a few times a week in Arizona while they are there.


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[zmotorsports]

Couple of questions/comments:

How did you put the 10* bend in the tube? .250 wall?


Think we’d all rather see you single point these link ends. [emoji12]


That’s a pro move!

Thank you.

As for the bend in the .250" wall tubing, I used my JD2 tube bender. I added the air over hydraulic feature about six or eight years ago. It did struggle a bit even with that, luckily it was only a couple of 10-degree bends and not much more.

I was going to machine the tube adapters myself but for time sake I found some that were not bad priced so my son opted to just purchase them and be done.

The .045" shim on the inside has come from bad past experiences, although that's how most of us learn I'm sure. Adding a thin shim for ease of reassembly after the fact is a must, otherwise you end up fighting getting things back together. I also shim a little for preparing for either powder coating, painting or chrome to allow for material thicknesses to change slightly.

Thanks again for the comments and for following along.

 

[zmotorsports]

That’s what my dad does! They have a site in Sunshine AZ that they winter in the motor home. They’ll actually be taking the motor home there when the finish in Moab at the end of the month. They have a Jeep club that they rode with a few times a week in Arizona while they are there.


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That sounds awesome. We have a few friends that have sites in Surprise, AZ as well. The FMCA 4-Wheelers RV group that we travel with starts the season off with the new year in Catalina, then they end up hitting FMCA 4-Wheeler rallies at Quartzsite, Yuma, Havasu, Parker and wheeling the entire southern area until around the first part of March. Each rally lasts a week with usually at least a week gap in between allowing people to move about the areas and stay longer or arrive early from rally to rally. The wife and I are really looking forward to it but now have to pick and choose the rallies that we go to because of our work schedules.

Most of our friends that we wheel with in the club are quite a bit older than my wife and I and retired, so they have a bit more freedom to travel about than we do. The sad part of it is by the time my wife and I are retired and can have more time, many of them will either be gone or will be hanging up the keys to their RV's. We have met some great friends through our RVing and Jeeping over the past 10+ years especially.

Thanks for the comments. Glad to hear your dad is doing well enough to enjoy their new RV.

 

[Nlped]

Just double checked & there place is in Surprise not Sunshine...Oops. He may crossing paths with some of your friends.


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[zmotorsports]

Just double checked & there place is in Surprise not Sunshine...Oops. He may crossing paths with some of your friends.


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He more than likely knows several of them as it is a pretty tight RV community down there.

 

[LXCam]

The .045" shim on the inside has come from bad past experiences, although that's how most of us learn I'm sure..

You can sure say that again Mike. For most it only takes once maybe twice of getting bit to catch on. I know I've fought my fair share of tight bracket work specially on powder coated assemblies I didn't build. It can get very frustrating having to spend the time cleaning it up and then coating it to stop corrosion issues as much as reasonably possible.


On a liter note guess what? Dukes coming to town and I'm gonna finally get a chance to buy that man a cocktail and shake his hand. Too bad you're not closer to join us tomorrow.

 

[zmotorsports]

You can sure say that again Mike. For most it only takes once maybe twice of getting bit to catch on. I know I've fought my fair share of tight bracket work specially on powder coated assemblies I didn't build. It can get very frustrating having to spend the time cleaning it up and then coating it to stop corrosion issues as much as reasonably possible.


On a liter note guess what? Dukes coming to town and I'm gonna finally get a chance to buy that man a cocktail and shake his hand. Too bad you're not closer to join us tomorrow.

Well shake his hand once for me will ya? I wish we were closer and I'd be there for certain.

Thanks for the comments Cam.

 

[lilscorpion]

Thank you.



As for the bend in the .250" wall tubing, I used my JD2 tube bender. I added the air over hydraulic feature about six or eight years ago. It did struggle a bit even with that, luckily it was only a couple of 10-degree bends and not much more.



I was going to machine the tube adapters myself but for time sake I found some that were not bad priced so my son opted to just purchase them and be done.



The .045" shim on the inside has come from bad past experiences, although that's how most of us learn I'm sure. Adding a thin shim for ease of reassembly after the fact is a must, otherwise you end up fighting getting things back together. I also shim a little for preparing for either powder coating, painting or chrome to allow for material thicknesses to change slightly.



Thanks again for the comments and for following along.

Links look good. Those air over hydo setups are super strong. The force it would take to bend .250 wall in that size tube. Sweet.

I know you can machine them. I was poking fun. Mostly because that’s what my friends do to me when I frequently do the exact same thing. [emoji6]

I noticed the shim because I do the same thing too after having similar experiences. Truth be told I’ve been known to machine down the bushing, sleeve, and sleeve after realizing that it doesn’t fit. Learning by fire

 

[zmotorsports]

Links look good. Those air over hydo setups are super strong. The force it would take to bend .250 wall in that size tube. Sweet.

I know you can machine them. I was poking fun. Mostly because that’s what my friends do to me when I frequently do the exact same thing. [emoji6]

I noticed the shim because I do the same thing too after having similar experiences. Truth be told I’ve been known to machine down the bushing, sleeve, and sleeve after realizing that it doesn’t fit. Learning by fire

I figured you were poking fun and I was pickin' up what you were puttin' down.

You know how it is, you just have to weigh the cost of what you can buy them for vs. how long it takes to machine and what other things you could be doing vs. machining parts that you can buy fairly cheap.

As for the shims, yep, been there done that and had to learn the hard way myself. Now it is one of those things that gets compensated for during the build rather than dealing with it afterwards.

Thanks again for following along and chiming in on my projects thread.

 

[kazlx]

Looks so good man. I love your shop. I really hope at least one of my kids enjoys working on stuff with me once they get a bit older.

 

[zmotorsports]

Gorgeous work as usual on the Jeep Mike! I can only wish that my kids wanted to spend time like that with me.

Thanks a lot Terry. I really appreciate the comments and for taking the time to follow along. I don't think it would mean as much to me if my son didn't want to help and hang out with me. My wonderful wife told me when I built the last shop as well as this one to build it the way I wanted so that our son and I would have a place to work comfortably and spend time together. I can't begin to tell her how much that mindset means to me.

Thanks again for following along Terry.

 

[zmotorsports]

Looks so good man. I love your shop. I really hope at least one of my kids enjoys working on stuff with me once they get a bit older.

Thanks for the comments. Only advice I can give it to start them young and make it fun for them. Although I can tell a difference whether it is on his projects or mine. He seems to be much more engaged and wanting to be in the shop when we are working on one of his projects vs. one of mine. He is good to help with my projects but I have to ask for assistance.

 

[customh]

Thanks for the comments. Only advice I can give it to start them young and make it fun for them. Although I can tell a difference whether it is on his projects or mine. He seems to be much more engaged and wanting to be in the shop when we are working on one of his projects vs. one of mine. He is good to help with my projects but I have to ask for assistance.

This is an interesting issue to consider and one I've thought about a lot in watching like-minded friends getting married and having kids. The number one reason why I want our kids by my side in the shop is the knowledge and life skills that are learned from working on things. Obviously I'll enjoy teaching them, but in the world we live in I never want them to be one of those people that doesn't know what end of a wrench to use and thus can't figure out how to get things done the right way. There's so many reasons why practical mechanical skills are useful I don't think I can flesh it all out in one post.

Anyhow, regarding your son's projects vs yours I think that's completely a time thing. I'd probably look the same way to my dad but if I didn't have other obligations I'd be in the shop with him all the time no matter what we were working on. Life just gets busy and it's easy to focus on my own projects and harder to focus on helping dad or close friends because I feel like I should be getting my own stuff done. It *****- but until both him and I are independently wealthy I think that's the way it is.

 

[zmotorsports]

This is an interesting issue to consider and one I've thought about a lot in watching like-minded friends getting married and having kids. The number one reason why I want our kids by my side in the shop is the knowledge and life skills that are learned from working on things. Obviously I'll enjoy teaching them, but in the world we live in I never want them to be one of those people that doesn't know what end of a wrench to use and thus can't figure out how to get things done the right way. There's so many reasons why practical mechanical skills are useful I don't think I can flesh it all out in one post.

Anyhow, regarding your son's projects vs yours I think that's completely a time thing. I'd probably look the same way to my dad but if I didn't have other obligations I'd be in the shop with him all the time no matter what we were working on. Life just gets busy and it's easy to focus on my own projects and harder to focus on helping dad or close friends because I feel like I should be getting my own stuff done. It *****- but until both him and I are independently wealthy I think that's the way it is.

I completely agree with all Travis. When I built my first shop I had it in my head that I wanted a place to build my race cars and make money to support said racing as well as my tool addiction. My wife on the other hand just wanted the shop to be a place where my son and I could hang out and be together while he was learning a worthwhile skillset.

Fast forward to my new shop where I am less inclined to worry about making money in it and more concerned with just spending time with my son. Granted he is in a pretty serious relationship right now which is pulling at much of his time. I cherish the time we are working in the shop but I also realize it will continue to dwindle, especially when he gets a place of his own.

He has mentioned several times that when he gets a place of his own he will take his toolbox home and probably a few jack stands and floorjack for little tasks but anything much more than that he had asked if he could still use the shop. I told him he will be welcome to come over and use the lift or any tools anytime he wants, he can even leave his CNC mill and not have to worry about taking it. I figure that way I can continue to see him even when he moves out.

It's nice to see him use the skillset that he has acquired. He helped his girlfriend's mother on her riding lawnmower the other night. He grabbed his VOM out of his truck to diagnose a weak battery, then went and picked one up and put it in for her. She was so appreciative. My son's girlfriend's father had passed away about 7 years ago and I have gathered that the two brothers are not very mechanically inclined so my son has been a breathe of fresh air to their family helping with little things around the house and yard. It is great to see what a considerate and helpful young man he has turned in to and I am proud that he at least got the basic skillset from me.

Thanks for following along and commenting Travis, I appreciate it.

 

[kazlx]

Thanks for the comments. Only advice I can give it to start them young and make it fun for them. Although I can tell a difference whether it is on his projects or mine. He seems to be much more engaged and wanting to be in the shop when we are working on one of his projects vs. one of mine. He is good to help with my projects but I have to ask for assistance.

I totally get that. My boys are 5 and 2. My oldest will come out with me and run parts on the CNC. He likes to load and unload parts, use the air gun and press the GO button. I bring the little guy out and have him wait while I get everything ready and let him start it.

There were plenty of times as a kid I felt my dad was making me do stuff, but looking back, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Laid a foundation for everything I love now, set the hook for mechanical aptitude and just actually helped make me self-sufficient. Things a lot of my generation seem to lack...

 

[zmotorsports]

Tonight we tore into my son’s transfer cases. He is replacing the NP247 with a NP231J. However the input shafts are different lengths so we needed to swap them around. While he is at it he is going to do a slip yoke eliminator (SYE).

The 247 torn apart and input removed.


Inputs torn apart and ready to swap.


While we’re at it I think we’ll replace the bearings & seals prior to stabbing it back in even though they don’t feel that bad. He’s just not sure how many miles are on the 231 that he bought.

Thanks for looking.

 

[Finallygotit]

Ya got it down this far, might as well do the PM on it while you're there.

 

[zmotorsports]

Ya got it down this far, might as well do the PM on it while you're there.

What additional that I haven’t mentioned Dan? Replacing bearings and seals plus installing SYE. Chain and wear pads on forks look nearly new so we will just reassemble and install. Not much else to do. Probably could get by on the bearings but don’t want to skimp on it this far in. I’ve never done much more than that so not sure what else you’re referring to.

Thanks.


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[Finallygotit]

What additional that I haven’t mentioned Dan? Replacing bearings and seals plus installing SYE. Chain and wear pads on forks look nearly new so we will just reassemble and install. Not much else to do. Probably could get by on the bearings but don’t want to skimp on it this far in. I’ve never done much more than that so not sure what else you’re referring to.

Thanks.


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Sorry for the confusion Mike, I was agreeing with you that since you had it down, replacing the bearings and seals was a great idea.

 

[JasonJ]

I see that motorcycle lift is coming in 'Handy' during your Jeep project. hahaha

Good stuff though, your thread is one of the few that I look forward to reading the most.

 

[zmotorsports]

Sorry for the confusion Mike, I was agreeing with you that since you had it down, replacing the bearings and seals was a great idea.

Gotcha. I was just wondering if I had missed something.

Thanks for the comments Dan.

 

[zmotorsports]

I see that motorcycle lift is coming in 'Handy' during your Jeep project. hahaha

Good stuff though, your thread is one of the few that I look forward to reading the most.

Yeah, I'm a little embarrassed the way I've been using it but your right, it has been "Handy".

I'm sure it will get used later this winter as my son wants to start building his new Street Glide after his Jeep is done and I have a few maintenance items to do on my CVO as well. We just have to get these Jeeps done first.

Thanks for stopping by and checking up on my projects.

 

[fnieto]

Good call on refreshing the X-fer case. coming along nicely Mike.

 

[zmotorsports]

Good call on refreshing the X-fer case. coming along nicely Mike.

Thanks Paco.

As much as I enjoy the fabricating aspect, I was happy to get back to spinning some wrenches last night. Actually I sat and watched while my son tore them down but still, it feels like we're getting past the fabrication stage even though we still have some loose ends to tie up fabrication wise.

 

[LXCam]

Thanks Paco.

As much as I enjoy the fabricating aspect, I was happy to get back to spinning some wrenches last night. Actually I sat and watched while my son tore them down but still, it feels like we're getting past the fabrication stage even though we still have some loose ends to tie up fabrication wise.

It's nice to mix it up. I'm the same way that most of what I do is fab work. But I very much enjoy tearing things apart and seeing how many extra pieces I'm left with in the end. Being most of my stuff is normally race related, every ounce counts.


On a serious note I got a question for ya ol jeep miester. I'm finally getting back on my project and need to finish rebuilding the front end. Im very much considering the 1.5 degree offset lower ball joint to increase caster and a .5 degree upper for just a tick of camber. Whatta ya think Mike?

 

[zmotorsports]

It's nice to mix it up. I'm the same way that most of what I do is fab work. But I very much enjoy tearing things apart and seeing how many extra pieces I'm left with in the end. Being most of my stuff is normally race related, every ounce counts.


On a serious note I got a question for ya ol jeep miester. I'm finally getting back on my project and need to finish rebuilding the front end. Im very much considering the 1.5 degree offset lower ball joint to increase caster and a .5 degree upper for just a tick of camber. Whatta ya think Mike?

You can use them Cam but to be honest I have never found the need on any that I have built, plus I don't feel they are as stout, especially running oversized tires and bouncing around on the rocks.

When installing a lift for people I insist that they use one with adjustable control arms in order to adjust for not only caster but also for pinion angle. Most of the time hitting those two targets isn't bad to accomplish with adjustable control arms. Granted it may be a little less caster than optimum but not enough to be detrimental to handling or steering wheel return.

The reason I don't like using the offset ball joints, besides durability concerns, is because if out in remote areas/towns and one needs to be replaced it can be hard to find and setup in the field so I prefer to use the standard OE style ball joints for this reason.

When I am modifying an axle or moving spring buckets around I also try to adjust slightly to compensate for better caster as well as pinion angle adjustability but if your not going to that extreme I wouldn't worry about it.

Sorry Cam as that probably not what you wanted to hear about the ball joints.