ZMotorsports Shop Projects 2.0

[zmotorsports]

Pros/cons with a light flywheel on a model A? That a common mod?

I guess it is quite common by the several I've done for the local Model A club. Like any lightened flywheel, it helps rev a bit quicker. Also like lightening a flywheel, there are tradeoffs as the same mass that is being removed also helps to keep the vehicle going so there is a fine line. The local Model A guys have been having me remove in the 12-14 pound range so not a lot but enough to help with the rev's. You know how these high HP engines are.

 

[shortykorte]

Glad the Jeep is out and about. Look forward to your review and numbers


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[zmotorsports]

Glad the Jeep is out and about. Look forward to your review and numbers


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Thanks Shorty. I've got over 600 trouble free miles on her already and she's running perfectly. Now to get started on Phase II of my son's WJ.

 

[zmotorsports]

I had a great Saturday in the shop today with my son. I pulled my Jeep onto the lift so I could service the engine and get the break in oil out now that I have just over 900 miles on it.

I also needed to service the front and rear axles. I actually went a little over on mileage as they have about 1200 miles since regearing. I generally try to do the first service at around 500-800 miles but with the engine swap I went a little over. I checked my backlash and everything looked great.




While I had the Jeep on the lift I opted to weld my rear axle tubes into my center section. We where on a trail last year with a group and one of the guys got his JKU hopping a bit on an obstacle and he actually broke the little plug welds and turned the center section on his rear axle. We were able to get him out to an easier section then removed his rear driveshaft and he drove out on his front axle but it got me thinking that a little extra insurance on my rear axle would be a good idea to avoid that happening to me, especially with the horsepower that I’m pushing now. I’ve welded these on all my previous race cars and we even did on my son’s WJ when we built it but I really never gave it much thought until after that trail last year.

Prepped both sides for welding.










After allowing to cool I wiped the axle down and threw a coat of Eastwood’s Extreme Chassis Black on the axle.


Put fresh oil and filter in the engine and it’s ready to go.


While I was working on my Jeep my son cleared out the back area of his WJ so we could commence Phase II of his build. He also pulled his bumpers.

After pulling my Jeep out of the shop we put his WJ on the lift and dropped his fuel tank so we could cut and raise his fuel tank.

Tank removed.








That’s about it for today. Thanks for looking.

 

[GRN96WS6]

Why cut and raise? Assuming you'llose volume?

 

[zmotorsports]

Why cut and raise? Assuming you'llose volume?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Lose volume on what?

We're performing the tank lift due to how low it hangs and don't want to get hung up on it off-road. Also this way we can build the rear bumper with a much better departure angle.

 

[Bob Heine]

I'm not sure what you're asking. Lose volume on what?

We're performing the tank lift due to how low it hangs and don't want to get hung up on it off-road. Also this way we can build the rear bumper with a much better departure angle.

Mike, I think your post implies you are sectioning the tank, making it shallower. I understood the sectioning was to the mounting tabs on the support panel, which would move the tank closer to the trunk floor. Apologies if I misunderstood.

 

[LXCam]

Well I understood what you meant by raising the tank, your description seemed pretty clear.

Anyhow...just saying

I gotta say Mike with the incredible amount of documentation you provide this single picture nails the cool factor X's 100.




For us million or so followers (ok maybe that was a bit of a stretch....100's of thousands ) knowing the extent of the work you have performed on both rides is impressive to say the least. Both builds wreak of quality across the board, parts selection and execution are astounding. And all though you probably feel differently, the timeline of construction is mind blowing.

I know you're not one to give yourself a pat on the back but you are most deserving of one. That's what that picture says to me. Both Jeep's are stupid cool bud

 

[Finallygotit]

......I know you're not one to give yourself a pat on the back but you are most deserving of one. That's what that picture says to me.

Now there's an understatement.

 

[zmotorsports]

WOW! Thanks for the comments Cam. I’m flattered coming from you bud.

I’m sorry guys if I wasn’t clear on the tank tuck maybe I just assumed everyone would know what I was referencing.

I should have mentioned that I was cutting the spare tire cavity do we could raise the fuel tank up closer to the bottom of the Jeep for better off-road clearance.

I appreciate everyone’s following along and commenting, all dozen of you. I don’t think there’s as many as Cam thinks there are. [emoji12]

 

[slodat]

I check in on your thread pretty much daily!

 

[Bob275]

Some of us are just watching in the background...





...waiting for the jeep to be for sale!

 

[Seagoon]

I'm watching from England,Mike.
I used to know nothing about Jeeps or off-roading but after your tutorials I feel like a veteran ready to do Moab(I had never heard of there either till I started reading your thread!)
Thanks for entertaining me so well.

 

[Duker]

I'm watching from England,Mike.

I used to know nothing about Jeeps or off-roading but after your tutorials I feel like a veteran ready to do Moab(I had never heard of there either till I started reading your thread!)

Thanks for entertaining me so well.

See Mike... you have gone global...!

Now.... Not to be a Debbie Downer here but weeks back I was feeling pretty good about my day as I put my wife’s car on the lift (purchase inspired by watching you) and rotated the tires, changed the oil and the battery and a few other maintenance issues ....

and then I come over to read your thread and you have pulled a rear end, welded up bracing, put in new gears, fabricated brackets and probably tuned a satellite for NASA just for the hell of it... and I realize either how much of slacker I really am!

Cam is right... the planning, execution and pace in which you progress through your projects is remarkable. We appreciate also the detailed documentation and descriptions.

So... what’s next on the white board?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[LXCam]

So... what’s next on the white board?

World peace!!!



Well ok, maybe that's a bit much for even the likes of Mike




It's probably be something simple like....a perpetual motion machine

 

[zmotorsports]

While I appreciate everyone's comments, I think ya'll are giving me just a little too much praise. Nothing I'm doing is life altering or changing the alignment of the stars, I'm merely trying to think systematically through my projects and taking necessary steps to complete as many as possible as quickly as possible. I wish I was as good as you guys are giving me credit for but if I can do this stuff anyone can. I'm merely a mechanic with a little fabrication ability who enjoys building and modifying things in my shop, much like most of you. Believe me, I feel extremely blessed to have the life that I do but my skillset is nothing really outside of the ordinary, I know a few great mechanics and see so much work on this forum that truly impresses and inspires me. I'm just happy to be a part of this fantastic community of fine craftsman. It really give me hope for society after seeing the work on this forum and communicating with many of you.

As for next projects, right now my son's WJ has top priority. Trying to get it completed so we can do a little bit of playing off-road this summer. He is getting a bit stressed because he is getting married in June and he and his fiancé have just started looking for a house. He mentioned that he wants his Jeep done and the few things done on his truck for the summer as well as his new to him Harley completed before he gets married so I am just trying to assist him with all of that.

I have a few projects that I have promised out to other people but I have talked to them about having to push them back a bit as our summer just got very busy and if they decide to take their projects to someone else I would understand as I am not certain when I will be able to get to them.

I hope I am able to get the coach out and do some traveling this summer but as of right now it isn't looking good so I may not be the most pleasant person to be around if I don't get a break this summer and get out in the RV.

I do appreciate everyone following along and especially the very flattering comments.

 

[customh]

As per usual Mike and the type of person he is downplaying the ability to get stuff done. It's less about the skills and more about the focus and organizational abilities.

I hope I am able to get the coach out and do some traveling this summer but as of right now it isn't looking good so I may not be the most pleasant person to be around if I don't get a break this summer and get out in the RV.

What's making it not look good? Work too busy? Or do you let shop projects get in the way of vacation?

 

[Finallygotit]

.......What's making it not look good? Work too busy? Or do you let shop projects get in the way of vacation?

I think that might be his sons wedding.

 

[zmotorsports]

Thanks for the comments Travis.

Dan, that is part of it. I'm so happy and excited for my son and getting a wonderful daughter-in-law out of it is kind of awesome as well.

Right now with my son looking at buying a house he and his soon to be wife have asked me to help them with looking over houses as they are nervous about making such a big purchase. I completely get that and want to be there for them so I don't dare schedule any vacations so I can be available. My wife is also taking a very personal interest in planning. She has been asked to help with the wedding by our future daughter in law plus wants to throw a nice shower for her and every time I bring up vacation to the wife I get "the look" so I have to tread lightly.

The other part of it is helping my son get his Jeep, truck and bike completed so he can go into his house and marriage with as least amount of stress as possible so of course some of that stress filters down to me.

 

[Duker]

.......of course some of that stress filters down to me.

As the old saying goes Mike.. no good deed ever goes unpunished! [emoji51]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[zmotorsports]

As the old saying goes Mike.. no good deed ever goes unpunished! [emoji51]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks Duke. I'm sure most people here understand that as parents we just want our kids to have every opportunity for success that we can give them. I want to be available for any questions and/or guidance I can provide. I just hope the wife and I can still squeeze in some trips this year somewhere in all of the chaos.

 

[Ohmthis]

Clap, Clap, Clap, this is me giving you a standing ovation! A lot of us look up to you Mike, not only for what you can do with your skills, but for the kind of a man you are. I appreciate you posting your projects as well as venting too. It is something we all can understand. I look forward to my kids coming to me to look at their cars, houses, or any other things.

 

[zmotorsports]

Last night my son and I were able to get started on his tank tuck.

We cut the spare tire well out of the body.




We then mocked the tank skid assembly into place and made some measurements. We had to fix a small area of rust on the skid before sectioning it. At that point I didn’t want to do any more cutting or welding as it was getting near quitting time.

Thanks for looking.

 

[zmotorsports]

Clap, Clap, Clap, this is me giving you a standing ovation! A lot of us look up to you Mike, not only for what you can do with your skills, but for the kind of a man you are. I appreciate you posting your projects as well as venting too. It is something we all can understand. I look forward to my kids coming to me to look at their cars, houses, or any other things.

Thank you very much. I appreciate the comments. It is a good feeling to have them want your opinion on things. I'm sure he knows what to look for as he was with my wife and I quite a bit when we were looking a couple of years ago but I'm sure he is just looking for both a second opinion as well as approval.

 

[rattle_snake]

When welding axles tubes to a cast center section, what wire/rod and/or special techniques do you use? Look like you used your 251 MIG.

There are lots of threads on various sites regarding the procedure, complete with arguments, opposing views and experiences.
Preheat, nickle rod, blankets, post weld stress relief (chipping hammer or a needle scaler)??

I am avoiding welding to the cast on my D60 build.

 

[zmotorsports]

When welding axles tubes to a cast center section, what wire/rod and/or special techniques do you use? Look like you used your 251 MIG.

There are lots of threads on various sites regarding the procedure, complete with arguments, opposing views and experiences.
Preheat, nickle rod, blankets, post weld stress relief (chipping hammer or a needle scaler)??

I am avoiding welding to the cast on my D60 build.

Nothing special Justin. I know there are a lot of keyboard "experts" on the matter but few of them have probably done it I'm sure. They weld so good they more resemble cast steel than cast iron. I do a little preheat on some things but most just prep and clean then go to welding. The biggest thing I have found is not to camp out on one side or in one spot. When doing a lot of axle welding I like to break it up and move around a lot to keep the forces even and not try to distort the assembly.

On some things I have used a needle scaler after the fact to kind of stress relieve the area but on these it isn't necessary.

 

[sanddan]

While I appreciate everyone's comments, I think ya'll are giving me just a little too much praise. Nothing I'm doing is life altering or changing the alignment of the stars, I'm merely trying to think systematically through my projects and taking necessary steps to complete as many as possible as quickly as possible. I wish I was as good as you guys are giving me credit for but if I can do this stuff anyone can. I'm merely a mechanic with a little fabrication ability who enjoys building and modifying things in my shop, much like most of you. Believe me, I feel extremely blessed to have the life that I do but my skillset is nothing really outside of the ordinary, I know a few great mechanics and see so much work on this forum that truly impresses and inspires me. I'm just happy to be a part of this fantastic community of fine craftsman. It really give me hope for society after seeing the work on this forum and communicating with many of you.

As for next projects, right now my son's WJ has top priority. Trying to get it completed so we can do a little bit of playing off-road this summer. He is getting a bit stressed because he is getting married in June and he and his fiancé have just started looking for a house. He mentioned that he wants his Jeep done and the few things done on his truck for the summer as well as his new to him Harley completed before he gets married so I am just trying to assist him with all of that.

I have a few projects that I have promised out to other people but I have talked to them about having to push them back a bit as our summer just got very busy and if they decide to take their projects to someone else I would understand as I am not certain when I will be able to get to them.

I hope I am able to get the coach out and do some traveling this summer but as of right now it isn't looking good so I may not be the most pleasant person to be around if I don't get a break this summer and get out in the RV.

I do appreciate everyone following along and especially the very flattering comments.

Mike, I totally think you deserve the praise. I remember last year when I asked you for some advise on purchasing my new to me DP motorhome and you sent me a 3 page letter outlining all the pros and cons I should be aware of. Not very many people would take the time to do that and VERY FEW would be as comprehensive as you were. It was a BIG help for me at the time and I still have it for future reference. Thanks for helping me and all the others you have touched through the years. Keep it up, you are a rare person out there.

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, I totally think you deserve the praise. I remember last year when I asked you for some advise on purchasing my new to me DP motorhome and you sent me a 3 page letter outlining all the pros and cons I should be aware of. Not very many people would take the time to do that and VERY FEW would be as comprehensive as you were. It was a BIG help for me at the time and I still have it for future reference. Thanks for helping me and all the others you have touched through the years. Keep it up, you are a rare person out there.

Thank you Dan. I appreciate that and I am glad the information that I sent you was helpful. It sure looks like you found a beautiful coach and I hope you and your wife are able to use it for many, many years. I hope I get to see it in person some day and hope our paths cross on the road somewhere.

 

[zmotorsports]

My son and I were able to get some work done on his tank tuck Saturday. We got 6.5” cut out of the skid and pulled it up nice and snug.

We then cut a 5”x2.75” hole through the left rear frame rail in which to run the fuel fill tube and a couple of vent lines through. I’ve seen people cut a hole in the floor and build a box to house the fill tube inside the rear cargo area but I don’t think that looks like a very clean mod so we opted to keep everything outside and under the Jeep undetected. I also saw one guy who cut a 2" hole with a hole saw through the frame section and used a piece of exhaust tubing which looked like a nice job but it didn't account for the other couple of hoses that needed to reach either the fuel fill or the charcoal canister. This will allow adequate space for all of the hoses and not crowd them.

Hole cut in the inside rail.


After boxing with 3/16" plate, fully welded and painted.


Outside of frame rail, behind the charcoal canister.


I don’t have any pics of the skid once it was trimmed and welded for some reason so I’ll have to get s couple tonight.

 

[zmotorsports]

Yesterday after we returned from breakfast I had a couple of things I wanted to do in the shop.

I have grown tired of chasing my cutoff disks around the drawer so I machined a few aluminum standoffs and secured them in the drawer as pegs to store a few of my more commonly used cutoff and grinding disks.








Done. That should keep things in place. I’ve wanted to do that for several months now but either didn’t have the time or I’d forget until I grabbed another cutoff disk then I would remember.


While I was tinkering in the shop yesterday I thought I would address a couple of Jeep items so it is ready for the trails.

I have been trying to get it setup with a tablet to use for navigation as I think I’m the only remaining person in either of our Jeep clubs to still be using maps and paper back guides.

I finally made up my mind on what I was going to use and picked up a small dual USB charging dock a few weeks ago so I thought I would take a few minutes and install it.

I pulled my center console after locating a spot that would not interfere with anything. My goal was to try and make it appear OEM and not stick out like a sore thumb. I marked the location and drilled the 1.125” hole.


Installed the charger and ran the wires so I could tap into my switch panel for the power and ground.




Installation complete.




Next up was to install my Vector Off-Road full-width dash bar that I picked up a while back. I was really torn here as it was not exactly what I wanted to mount my accessories on but with limited space on the face of the dash in the JK’s there’s not a ton of options and many of the smaller components that I’ve seen advertised and used over the years haven’t offered enough support and either look like hell or they end up cracking and destroying the dash due to the weight of the mounts and tablets bouncing around on the dash.

After much deliberating I came to the conclusion that a bar mounted to the body and not directly to the dash was the best option to preserve the dash's integrity. I was going to fabricate one myself but I ran across one that a guy bought and never installed and it would have cost me more than what I paid just for the powder coating so I snagged it a few months ago and finally installed it yesterday.



Pretty clean and simple installation.


RAM mount hardware.


Central command setup and operational. While I was ordering the RAM mount for my Samsung 10.1” tablet I also ordered a mount for my camera. The el’ cheapo windshield suction cup camera mount that I have been using is just not quite rigid enough and my video quality hasn’t been that great. I would like to post up more off-roading videos to my YouTube channel in the future so I opted to pick up a mount that would hold the camera more securely and hopefully help the video quality a bit.




Shortly after going in the house to spend some time with my wife in front of the fireplace a hellacious blizzard kicked up as we had a winter storm warning here in Northern Utah yesterday.

 

[4 FN 27]

Shortly after going in the house to spend some time with my wife in front of the fireplace a hellacious blizzard kicked up as we had a winter storm warning here in Northern Utah yesterday.

Mike I am liking the blizzard part!!!

Nice work too...

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike I am liking the blizzard part!!!

Nice work too...

That was just for you Pat, I thought if anyone would appreciate that white **** falling from the sky it would be you.

Thanks for stopping by.

 

[WoodsTruck]

Will your tablet stay put out on that RAM mount without too much vibration?

I mounted a tablet in my truck using the center headrest holes since the headrest was never used and in the way it had already been removed. I did paint the mount, this was just a quick check to make sure it was going to work.

Being a touchscreen tablet I found a small cordless mouse to work better than a stylus or my less than dainty fingers on the screen.

 

[zmotorsports]

Will your tablet stay put out on that RAM mount without too much vibration?

I mounted a tablet in my truck using the center headrest holes since the headrest was never used and in the way it had already been removed. I did paint the mount, this was just a quick check to make sure it was going to work.

Being a touchscreen tablet I found a small cordless mouse to work better than a stylus or my less than dainty fingers on the screen.

I'll have to report back on the off-road steadiness of the mount but just for shits & grins I left it installed for the drive to work this morning and it worked great on the pavement. This is the mount that several of our friends in both our local and national Jeep club are using and it was their recommendation that I purchased this RAM mount so I hope they didn't steer me astray. The tablet stays in the mount without any issues as it grabs it pretty securely but the vibration I will have to report back on after the first off-road trip.

 

[LXCam]

Mikes got a blizzard

My door was frozen shut this morning

And Pats the one with issues

I'll gladly take my 115 degrees days any day over this cold ****.


Nice mount Mike, but it would bother me with blocking my view. Then again I'm all of 3'2" so even the dash bugs the hell out of me....

Now where's my heated pilllow

 

[zmotorsports]

Mikes got a blizzard

My door was frozen shut this morning

And Pats the one with issues

I'll gladly take my 115 degrees days any day over this cold ****.


Nice mount Mike, but it would bother me with blocking my view. Then again I'm all of 3'2" so even the dash bugs the hell out of me....

Now where's my heated pilllow

To be honest Cam, in the pictures above, the tablet actually doesn't block any view out of the windshield and the camera is very minimal as from the point of view I am looking downward toward the hood and camera is barely above that. The very top of the tablet is barely above the top of the dash and my field of vision is well above that. However, after I took the picture I turned the tablet to the landscape position and it placed the tablet at about the same level as the stereo well below the top of the dash and slightly above the switches for the power windows. We generally don't listen to the stereo when off-roading anyways. To be honest, I haven't listened to the stereo since I got the Jeep on the road several weeks ago as the only tune I now enjoy is the one that is orchestrated by that big ole' V8 under the hood.

As for blocking my view, the bar itself blends in with the dash and the hood. The only item above the dash is the small camera which is still less intrusive than the windshield suction cup mount that I previously used, so I have a better view out of the windshield now than I had the past several years. It just appears to be more intrusive in the pictures than it actually is.

Several members of the national Jeep club that we belong to have a large suction cup mount in which to mount their full-size or mini-tablets but it places the tablet directly above the dash and under the rear view mirror. A few also have mounts that affix to the sport cage above the driver and passenger and hand downward but I have found that being too awkward having to look up to see the tablet vs. seeing the tablet at the same level as the dash and/or out of the windshield. The little experience I have had with those leads me to believe that would get tiresome looking up and to the right to see the map. Both of those style mounts definitely obstruct vision and I did not want anything that obstructive which is probably why I have prolonged my navigation setup for so long and merely used maps and books. I really think this will work out well as I have been searching for a solution for several years and didn't pull the trigger until I was certain this was what I wanted because none of these components are exactly cheap.

One last component that I am waiting on is the 67 Design's phone mount for the wife's side of the Jeep. She is constantly playing the whole "where to I put my phone" game when in the Jeep, which is eventually ends up on the floor. She puts it on the dash sometimes in the little storage tray but it gets quite warm when right on top of the dash at the windshield. She also puts it in the little storage netting on the inside of the passenger side door but that is getting a bit stretched out and a few weeks ago she shut her phone in the door because the netting sagged below the door sill. Like I said, more times than not it ends up on the floor then she's reaching around for it when it goes off while we're driving.

I asked her if I got a mount for her phone that placed it on the face of the dash so she could see it if she would use it and she liked the idea so I'm hoping that by having her phone in a quick release mount just to the side of the stereo on the face of the dash yet outside the range of the airbag that she will find that beneficial.

We spend so much time in the Jeep we want things within easy reach but I hate things blocking the view and making me feel cramped and the nice thing about this Vector bar is that it can be configured in a multitude of configurations to match our needs.

 

[aka Larry]

I'll have to report back on the off-road steadiness of the mount but just for shits & grins I left it installed for the drive to work this morning and it worked great on the pavement. This is the mount that several of our friends in both our local and national Jeep club are using and it was their recommendation that I purchased this RAM mount so I hope they didn't steer me astray. The tablet stays in the mount without any issues as it grabs it pretty securely but the vibration I will have to report back on after the first off-road trip.

FWIW, we use a RAM mount (they make a lot of different ones) for the data acquisition screen in our race car. They are not cheap, but they work very well, as advertised.

Looks great BTW Mike.

 

[LXCam]

Mike, have you seen the adds for the latest n greatest cup holder phone mount. The kit had several inserts for different sized holes. Its made by Weather Tech and looks like it might work fine but... And since my console has three positions I think I'm going to get one. I don't know if that's an option but thought I'd toss it out there. Let me see if I can find a link.

Well that was easy: https://www.weathertech.com/cupfone...6noog3Gw_zEleM_yU9H7CWczHL644RDoaAql4EALw_wcB

 

[zmotorsports]

So cool project

FWIW, we use a RAM mount (they make a lot of different ones) for the data acquisition screen in our race car. They are not cheap, but they work very well, as advertised.

Looks great BTW Mike.

Thanks guys. I can't believe I waited or postponed getting a navigations setup for so long. Our RV and Jeeping friends have given me **** for so long because all we've used is BLM maps or guide books but to be honest, I just haven't found a mounting system that I was really fond of and didn't want to spend the money until I was 100% certain it would meet my expectations.

I also really didn't have the time to learn how to use one so now I have forced myself to figure it out and go hi-tech on trail navigation. Better late than never I guess.

Another reason is because many of the rallies that we have attended over the past couple of years they have really been begging and pleading with people to lead trails as trail leaders/volunteers have been very sparse and have declined. I kind of enjoy leading trails and feel that I am a pretty good trail leader and spotter. I feel I do a good job of communicating and spotting people to get people through rough obstacles but the wife and I have usually felt better about being a tail gunner as opposed to leading trails. When we attended the FMCA 4-Wheelers rally in South Dakota this past September, they had only a couple of people volunteer to lead trails but several people offered up their tracks for anyone who wanted them. Had my wife and I had a navigations system at the time, I would have volunteered to lead if someone would email me their tracks and I could download them but I wasn't set up for it at the time.

I am slowly changing my wife's philosophy on leading trails because I have convinced her how much less dusty it is out in front vs. bringing up the rear so I think that helped.

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, have you seen the adds for the latest n greatest cup holder phone mount. The kit had several inserts for different sized holes. Its made by Weather Tech and looks like it might work fine but... And since my console has three positions I think I'm going to get one. I don't know if that's an option but thought I'd toss it out there. Let me see if I can find a link.

Well that was easy: https://www.weathertech.com/cupfone...6noog3Gw_zEleM_yU9H7CWczHL644RDoaAql4EALw_wcB

I did see those a while back Cam. However, neither my wife nor I am willing to give up our cup holders. I always have either a coffee mug or my large stainless steel tumbler in mine and whenever the wife is in the Jeep she too has a drink in hers. We discussed that but the wife said HELL NO, she wasn't giving up her drink holder.

They are a neat idea though.