OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks Mike. I don't think I posted it prior, but here it is. It is designed to be used with a drill motor.
ZMotorsports Shop Projects 2.0
- Thread starter zmotorsports
- Start date
Thanks Mike. I don't think I posted it prior, but here it is. It is designed to be used with a drill motor.
Thank you!
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You're welcome Mike
Atlascycle
Well-known member
Looks Great Mike,
the DA Finish on the parts look great
Jason
the DA Finish on the parts look great
Jason
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thank you. I used to just hit the areas that were to be welded for prepping before welding, however a few years ago I started going over everything with the DA before final fitment and welding and like the result. I appreciate the feedback.
Is this a chicken/egg thing??
Bodj Built
Well-known member
I can't help but chuckle at your messy workspace picture haha. You're never allowed in my garage. I don't think you'd be able to handle it
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
He would probably stroke out in mine...
SilverJimmy
Well-known member
What was that sound RainMan made when he couldn’t watch Judge Wapner?
Whap-Whap-Whap!!!
Whap-Whap-Whap!!!
customh
Well-known member
Every time he posts a picture with a similar caption I wonder- is this Mike attempting to show us he's "normal" and occasionally has a "messy" work area or is he just jerking our collective chains??
Misery loves company....I ordered one too. I hate shaking cans.
I haven't ordered one yet but I know it's now going to be coming up in mi search history.
Don't feel bad, I ordered one last night!
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I'm not sure how to respond to that Travis. In my mind that was a messy work area and bugged me to the point I had to clean it up before closing up the shop for the night.
Finallygotit
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Mike, FYI your messy is others pristine.I'm not sure how to respond to that Travis. In my mind that was a messy work area and bugged me to the point I had to clean it up before closing up the shop for the night.
ntsqd
Well-known member
A picture of my garage would probably get me booted from this forum.
SilverJimmy
Well-known member
I posted pictures of the unorganized chaos that is my garage a while back. With Mike as an example of what I hope my new shop might someday look like I have developed a plan for my upcoming move. I will have four categories of things…
1) Move to new shop: Tools, equipment, parts, project vehicles, stuff I want to keep.
2) Sell: Things that have value that are easily sold, that $$$ will go towards what was spent on the new shop.
3) Give away: Stuff that has value but is not worth trying to sell or has value as a gift to someone that could use it more than what selling it would bring to me.
4) Throw away or scrap: Stuff that I have saved for years “just in case I need it”! A glaring example is a folding metal twin bed frame I’ve moved for almost 30 years! A buddy of mine says I suffer from “Separation Anxiety“! Maybe….
Items 2 and 3 will cascade downward as needed until I only have #1 items!
Now if I can just follow my plan, I’ll be “Just Like Mike”!
1) Move to new shop: Tools, equipment, parts, project vehicles, stuff I want to keep.
2) Sell: Things that have value that are easily sold, that $$$ will go towards what was spent on the new shop.
3) Give away: Stuff that has value but is not worth trying to sell or has value as a gift to someone that could use it more than what selling it would bring to me.
4) Throw away or scrap: Stuff that I have saved for years “just in case I need it”! A glaring example is a folding metal twin bed frame I’ve moved for almost 30 years! A buddy of mine says I suffer from “Separation Anxiety“! Maybe….
Items 2 and 3 will cascade downward as needed until I only have #1 items!
Now if I can just follow my plan, I’ll be “Just Like Mike”!
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
XJSuperman
Well-known member
We need bumper stickers for that lol. GJ logo and "Just Like Mike" printed on em.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Last week, one of our mechanics came to me asking for advice on a hydraulic cylinder in one of our compactors. I went and looked at it with him and gave him some suggestions on how I would go about removing it from the compactor. Once he got the covers removed, the pin in the rod end came out easily, however the pin in the cylinder end was seized. He had beat on it trying to remove it, but it wasn't budging. I suggested making a slit in the pin's sleeve then liberally spraying with Kroil and even using some heat if needed to expand it enough to get the pin to move. I suggested extending the ram a foot or so to keep the heat away from the packing and to just cover the rod to protect the finish/surface. He looked at me like I had two heads. WHAT? Cut the area where the pin goes? I said, well you've been here for two hours beating on it and haven't gotten anywhere so at what point to you want to shift gears and try something different. I then mentioned that just use a small cut off disc and then simply weld up the slit while doing the repair in the shop. I could see the gears turning so it at least got him thinking outside the box a bit.
Once he was able to get the cylinder out of the compactor, he asked me to look at where he "thought" it was leaking from. He mentioned it was leaking from the non-serviceable end. I simply explained that this is a common area where hydraulic cylinders can crack and the repair is pretty straight-forward. He did not really know where to begin so I explained how to proceed with the repair, which consisted of identifying the full extent of the crack, grinding a "V" in the cracked area to get down near the seam of the end cap, then weld it back up. Easy peezy.
He was still rather hesitant and asked me if I would show him as he had never performed anything like this. Granted, this was commonplace 15+ years ago, especially on the Hyster forklifts we had as the tilt cylinders were very prone to cracking and we welded these a lot seeing as how we had about 40 of these lift trucks. Nowadays, we simply don't see these failures nearly as often, especially our newer mechanics that have only been in the industry for a couple of years.
Friday I brought my welding helmet in to work and grabbed my penetrant and die from home to demonstrate the proper way to repair such failures. Turns out I had several of our mechanics who wanted to learn so it was nice to turn it into a little learning opportunity for about four of our mechanics who had never done this type of repair and a refresher for two who had.
Using our MHE lift to lower the ram onto some sawhorses and to extend the rod end back out a little bit. As we were beginning to grind on the end, I suggested removing the plugs in the end to prevent pressures from building and I could see the light bulbs come on as none had thought about how heat will cause the area behind the piston to expand. Simply explaining that they need to think ALL the way through the process, not to focus on the repair to the point of having blinders on to other factors that can be affected.
Flattened the area off to remove paint, scale and corrosion. This revealed much of the crack where he had identified the fluid coming from.
But to be certain we grind enough out to repair the crack, yet not more than necessary, I grabbed some penetrant die from home to show them how this works.
First clean the area thoroughly, then apply the penetrant and allow it to creep into the low areas, cracks and crevices.
After letting it dry for a few minutes, take a rag and wipe "over" the area with cleaner to remove the penetrant from the surface. I think this is where people get it wrong as they spray the area down again with cleaner, which washed the penetrant out from any cracks or defects. You want to just wipe over the area with cleaner sprayed on a rag, not saturate the area being inspected.
Once the area is wiped down, grab the developer and spray it on the area.
And it reveals the crack or any other defects. This crack actually went a little further than we could see with the naked eye.
It was ground out about a quarter inch past each end, then cleaned again before welding. I hadn't stick welded (SMAW) in quite some time and several of our mechanics have never stick welded so it was definitely a learning opportunity for them. I was so involved in explaining the process and the "why" behind what we were doing I forgot to take pictures of the process. The welded area is shown here after we rolled the cylinder over to address the slit cut in the pin end. It actually welded up quite well.
With the cylinder rolled over, I used some 7018 rod to fill in the slit that was cut to soak the pin down as this was compromised slightly. I think the guys realized that sometimes the mounting hardware doesn't cooperate and alternate methods need to be explored to remove the fasteners, before you can even attempt to address the reason why the component is being removed. I explained that if something is either damaged or compromised during the removal process, then you simply address that along with the repair. That's the nice thing about working with metal, if you remove some, you can put it back.
All in all, I think the little demonstration went well and opened their eyes to the fact that many times in this industry, you have to alter repair plans as you progress through the actual repair and seldom do they ever go exactly as planned. A couple of them came from the automotive world (dealerships) and never thought about a repair being done other than unbolting one part and bolting on another. I explained that THIS is not the automotive world and many times a repair is not a bolt on affair. This was a great real-world example of that.
I also have to accept that some of the repairs that I just seem to take for granted as everyday tasks from the past nearly 40 years, are not so commonplace anymore and definitely with the younger group of mechanics that we have. I hope this was a good learning opportunity for them and it was nice to have them ask a lot of questions.
Thanks for looking.
Once he was able to get the cylinder out of the compactor, he asked me to look at where he "thought" it was leaking from. He mentioned it was leaking from the non-serviceable end. I simply explained that this is a common area where hydraulic cylinders can crack and the repair is pretty straight-forward. He did not really know where to begin so I explained how to proceed with the repair, which consisted of identifying the full extent of the crack, grinding a "V" in the cracked area to get down near the seam of the end cap, then weld it back up. Easy peezy.
He was still rather hesitant and asked me if I would show him as he had never performed anything like this. Granted, this was commonplace 15+ years ago, especially on the Hyster forklifts we had as the tilt cylinders were very prone to cracking and we welded these a lot seeing as how we had about 40 of these lift trucks. Nowadays, we simply don't see these failures nearly as often, especially our newer mechanics that have only been in the industry for a couple of years.
Friday I brought my welding helmet in to work and grabbed my penetrant and die from home to demonstrate the proper way to repair such failures. Turns out I had several of our mechanics who wanted to learn so it was nice to turn it into a little learning opportunity for about four of our mechanics who had never done this type of repair and a refresher for two who had.
Using our MHE lift to lower the ram onto some sawhorses and to extend the rod end back out a little bit. As we were beginning to grind on the end, I suggested removing the plugs in the end to prevent pressures from building and I could see the light bulbs come on as none had thought about how heat will cause the area behind the piston to expand. Simply explaining that they need to think ALL the way through the process, not to focus on the repair to the point of having blinders on to other factors that can be affected.
Flattened the area off to remove paint, scale and corrosion. This revealed much of the crack where he had identified the fluid coming from.
But to be certain we grind enough out to repair the crack, yet not more than necessary, I grabbed some penetrant die from home to show them how this works.
First clean the area thoroughly, then apply the penetrant and allow it to creep into the low areas, cracks and crevices.
After letting it dry for a few minutes, take a rag and wipe "over" the area with cleaner to remove the penetrant from the surface. I think this is where people get it wrong as they spray the area down again with cleaner, which washed the penetrant out from any cracks or defects. You want to just wipe over the area with cleaner sprayed on a rag, not saturate the area being inspected.
Once the area is wiped down, grab the developer and spray it on the area.
And it reveals the crack or any other defects. This crack actually went a little further than we could see with the naked eye.
It was ground out about a quarter inch past each end, then cleaned again before welding. I hadn't stick welded (SMAW) in quite some time and several of our mechanics have never stick welded so it was definitely a learning opportunity for them. I was so involved in explaining the process and the "why" behind what we were doing I forgot to take pictures of the process. The welded area is shown here after we rolled the cylinder over to address the slit cut in the pin end. It actually welded up quite well.
With the cylinder rolled over, I used some 7018 rod to fill in the slit that was cut to soak the pin down as this was compromised slightly. I think the guys realized that sometimes the mounting hardware doesn't cooperate and alternate methods need to be explored to remove the fasteners, before you can even attempt to address the reason why the component is being removed. I explained that if something is either damaged or compromised during the removal process, then you simply address that along with the repair. That's the nice thing about working with metal, if you remove some, you can put it back.
All in all, I think the little demonstration went well and opened their eyes to the fact that many times in this industry, you have to alter repair plans as you progress through the actual repair and seldom do they ever go exactly as planned. A couple of them came from the automotive world (dealerships) and never thought about a repair being done other than unbolting one part and bolting on another. I explained that THIS is not the automotive world and many times a repair is not a bolt on affair. This was a great real-world example of that.
I also have to accept that some of the repairs that I just seem to take for granted as everyday tasks from the past nearly 40 years, are not so commonplace anymore and definitely with the younger group of mechanics that we have. I hope this was a good learning opportunity for them and it was nice to have them ask a lot of questions.
Thanks for looking.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I also found NOS 4-piece set of MAC picks with the old comfort grip handles to match my favorite screwdrivers. They arrived on Saturday and are in fact, new.
"I think in society these days that is something that has been left out, overlooked or in many cases flat out ignored. People tend to repeat erroneous information over and over again until they actually believe it, or worse, go on to convince others that this misinformation is actually fact."
That's been true longer than either one of us has been around.
That's been true longer than either one of us has been around.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Unfortunately, I would agree.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
As much as I would like a deeper dive into this it would turn into a slippery slope rather quickly, so I will just agree and move on....
I fully understand about the younger crowd Mike. We get it at the fire station... yeah, these guy are well versed in the EMS side of the business but the other stuff, they lack.
Our job is more than "putting wet stuff on the red stuff." Some days, depending on the call, you might need to be a auto mechanic, appliance repair guy, carpenter or electrician. Not only for the investigation part but to make stuff safe and solve what you are dealing with.
Our job is more than "putting wet stuff on the red stuff." Some days, depending on the call, you might need to be a auto mechanic, appliance repair guy, carpenter or electrician. Not only for the investigation part but to make stuff safe and solve what you are dealing with.
Mike,
I was really glad to see that you were willing and able to take the time to teach your coworkers the repair process.
Too many businesses are short sighted and would not want that many mechanics “wasting” time.
I was so fortunate when I first went to work in the dealership that I had a mentor. He was a good mechanic, retired from the Marine Corp. and drawing a 20 year pension.
I was still hourly but he was on commission. Because he had a steady income stream, he was willing to teach me how to repair many things that GM warranty required repaired as opposed to replacement.
I learned to fix alternators, starters, cruise control transducers, washer pumps, wiper motors, etc.
I was forever grateful for his help.
I was really glad to see that you were willing and able to take the time to teach your coworkers the repair process.
Too many businesses are short sighted and would not want that many mechanics “wasting” time.
I was so fortunate when I first went to work in the dealership that I had a mentor. He was a good mechanic, retired from the Marine Corp. and drawing a 20 year pension.
I was still hourly but he was on commission. Because he had a steady income stream, he was willing to teach me how to repair many things that GM warranty required repaired as opposed to replacement.
I learned to fix alternators, starters, cruise control transducers, washer pumps, wiper motors, etc.
I was forever grateful for his help.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
When I started my career in the steel fabrication business, fresh out of college I worked in the shop for the first few months to learn processes, procedures, work flow etc. before moving into the estimating job I was hired for. Same thing happened a few years later when I moved across the country and took a sales job in the machinery design and manufacturing business. I traveled with our service techs and did installs with our engineers for a few months before they turned me loose to call on customers. I was there for 38 years, and was fortunate to be able to build a successful career on the foundation they started me with, largely due to those early learning experiences with great mentors. I will be forever grateful to Loren, Bob, Walt and Jay for sharing their time, insight and experience with an eager kid from the office who didn't know an eyebolt from an I-beam when he started. 
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zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I was just flattered that they asked for my help.
Like you, I have been fortunate to have a couple of mentors and have mentioned them on numerous occasions. Unfortunately, the number of people who actually want and more importantly, appreciate a mentor is quickly shrinking. I get the feeling most people these days think they either know everything, or the thing that you know is something they don't want to know. That is why much of the knowledge and skills are disappearing from our society unfortunately.
mercracing
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2015
- Messages
- 158
Also hats off to Mike for being willing to listen to the younger tech when he said he wasn't comfortable doing the repair and asking to watch you. Lots of people would have said "figure it out, that's how I learned", or just a flat "no, it's your problem"
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
^^Unfortunately, that is how I learned. We had a couple of assholes in the shop when I started and a couple of very knowledgeable and highly skilled mechanics. The assholes drove away the skilled and knowledgeable ones, but not before I was able to befriend a couple and get some advice to kickstart my career.
That left me to work with the assholes for much of my earlier career. I remember one guy in particular that anytime I asked him for help with something he'd point to the service manuals on our shelf and simply say "the books are over there, figure it out". It was so frustrating.
Same guy one night while working late I was in a manlift doing a PM on a sliding cooler door. I was not watching exactly where the cage was and when I moved to lube the chain the cage caught the motor and snapped off the mounting bracket before I had time to react. It was about 10:30pm and coming up on quitting time at midnight. I was working swing shift with this particular ******* and when I went into the shop to grab the welder and welding equipment I asked him if he could come and help me hold the motor mount in place while I welded the bracket. He said "you broke it, you fix it".
I had all kinds of blocks and straps holding it in place so I could weld it, but he was nice enough to come and check on me at midnight when it was time to go home. I was so pissed at him I couldn't even look at him and just told him to leave and I'd figure it out.On one hand I despised this guy, but if I'm being honest, on the other I actually think it forced me to really push myself to learn as I wanted to surpass him so badly and show him up. He quit a few years later and I no longer had to deal with him, but I swore I would never act like that if anyone asked me for help.
I hate asking for help even to this day, but there are still things I need help with. I am thankful for Zack aka @zkdiesel for sparing some time for me and letting me bounce some things off him yesterday. This forum and the people truly are great at sharing knowledge. I feel so blessed to be able to share what I have learned, but more importantly, I am glad that I am not so stubborn to not continue to learn from others myself.
It's so nice to have people you can talk thru problems with. Been making phone calls all morning with my network of guys trying to find someone with a tech 2 scanner for the vette to disable the F45 suspension module. Sometimes just working thru the problem someone will highlight a solution you never saw.
Commonly known in software development as rubber duck debugging. Basically, describe the issue to anybody, even an inanimate object (the prime example being a rubber duck). Forcing you to describe the issue and the expected behavior to somebody else often leads to insight.
zkdiesel
Well-known member
I also have that…
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
^^^Ding, ding, ding. This is something I very much miss from my old friend and mentor. We used to call it bench racing sessions, when we'd get together in one of our shops for Saturday morning coffee and we'd bounce thoughts and ideas off one another. I haven't had that opportunity for several years now and I truly miss that. It wasn't that he had all of the answers and neither did I. It was more about just talking through the issue(s) and many times the solution would come to us while we were merely vocalizing what was going on. It's amazing how much just hearing the problem laid out verbally can actually help.
I thoroughly enjoy this with my son but it seldom happens any longer as he is so involved with his own family, as he should be. I just feel very much alone some days and I know my wife tires of hearing me talk about various issues I'm working through in the shop. She's supportive, but she has no real input to contribute, and she feels bad at times.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Zack, you have no idea how much I appreciate you taking the time from your busy schedule to talk with me. Your knowledge is amazing and I learned a lot from our short conversations. THANK YOU!
Probably the biggest thing I miss about being retired.
Well, maybe second biggest thing.
The biggest is not having easy access to a mill and lathe anymore.