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zmotorsports

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A couple of things. I would think a Jeep is lighter than a PU. Where’s the extra weight coming from?
Second, what’s a CB mic? Lol
Last, thanks for the tip on cutting fasteners.


Shorty Korte
Always remember quality in QST

Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

Shorty, the 4-door Rubicon starts out around 4400 pounds to begin with so slightly less than a pickup truck but still with a full frame and solid axles it is not light by any means. Then when you replace the light plastic bumpers with heavier steel front and rear bumpers along with spare tire carrier and winch you automatically add around 300-400 pounds right there. Then add a few inches of lift to accommodate larger tires and you pick up another 300-400 pounds between thicker (and sometimes longer) suspension links, heavier coil springs, longer shocks and then the heavier tires and wheels. So basically any 4-door Jeep Wrangler that you see running around 3+ inches of lift and 35" tires is going to be around 5k to 5200 pounds without carrying anything else.

Next up is carrying all of the other stuff with you that you don't want to be caught without on the trail, or in my case ever. I probably carry too many but I carry tools such as bottle jack, extra fluids, in my case nearly a full working shop with 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" sockets with ratchets, extensions, full sets of wrenches in both SAE and Metric along with prybars, hammers, DVM, battery jump box, diagnostic scanner, bag full of spare bolts and nuts as well as spare belts, radiator cap and a few other known to fail parts.

Next up is recovery components such as tree straps(tree saver), ****** block, recovery strap, inertia strap, D-rings/clevis, small bag containing ax, shovel, pick and large base for Hi-lift Jack. Lastly included in my Jeep is a dual air compressor mounted under the wife's seat for airing up tires and now I also carry two 10 lb. Powertank CO2 tanks with regulator on one of them that I use to air up the 37's faster.

All of that "stuff" equates to the other 600~ish or so pounds. I could probably put it on a diet and reduce what I carry but I know there would be that one time I would need something and not have it, although that would probably still happen because you know the old saying "the one tool you need is the one you didn't bring".:lol_hitti When I go into "trail" or "vacation" mode, I also add a full Yeti cooler, Hi-Lift Jack, lawn chairs and the wife usually stocks the back seat with "snacks" which we will call our survival dinner.:bounce:

At least I'm not running 40's on one-ton axles or I could pretty much guarantee another 600-800 pounds right there, or a rooftop tent which would add another 160-180 pounds. I know quite a few guys that are running that setup and loaded up with tools/gear like I am that are tipping the scales just over 7k pounds, and most don't have the extra ponies that I do to propel them down the road or the trails. So all in all, mine's not that bad off when you calculate in power to weight.:bounce:
 
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zmotorsports

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LOL. The Jeep you’re referring to is of the 2006 and older vintage that are exclusively 2-door. They’re really all just variants of the old school jeeps with a little more plastic to make them feel newer age.

2007 and later though are a different breed especially in regards to the 4 door Unlimited. They’ve actually made an effort to make the Jeep less noisy internally, improve the crash rating/safety, and add in the creature features. They’re longer, wider, and taller than the older models with a more modern shape and style (less body). After market parts in turn are bigger and heavier. We also like beefy axles so we upgrade them to 1-ton which increases the weight by hundreds of pounds. ...And we still want full sized spares and to load them full of tools and gadgets for the trail.

6k lbs for a 4 door JK may be light.


Thanks for the reply Matt. Looks like we were both replying at the same time but you type faster.:lol_hitti

I actually want to weigh mine again now after I have it pretty much in the form that it will be for the foreseeable future with the powertrain, drivetrain, accessories, etc. I will have to report back with a 100 percent accurate weight as the 6k pound guestimate is based on my last weight plus the approximations of the last year's modifications.
 

lilscorpion

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Thanks for the reply Matt. Looks like we were both replying at the same time but you type faster.:lol_hitti



I actually want to weigh mine again now after I have it pretty much in the form that it will be for the foreseeable future with the powertrain, drivetrain, accessories, etc. I will have to report back with a 100 percent accurate weight as the 6k pound guestimate is based on my last weight plus the approximations of the last year's modifications.


That’s awesome...and why they need so damn much power. After your post Andrew and I decided to take the LJ down to the weigh scale south of town once we get it driving again to see where we ended up. Will be interesting to be able to compare back to yours and then mine. Between the 3 I should be able to figure out what the LJ would weight with an LS. [emoji857]
 
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zmotorsports

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LOL. The Jeep you’re referring to is of the 2006 and older vintage that are exclusively 2-door. They’re really all just variants of the old school jeeps with a little more plastic to make them feel newer age.

2007 and later though are a different breed especially in regards to the 4 door Unlimited. They’ve actually made an effort to make the Jeep less noisy internally, improve the crash rating/safety, and add in the creature features. They’re longer, wider, and taller than the older models with a more modern shape and style (less body). After market parts in turn are bigger and heavier. We also like beefy axles so we upgrade them to 1-ton which increases the weight by hundreds of pounds. ...And we still want full sized spares and to load them full of tools and gadgets for the trail.

6k lbs for a 4 door JK may be light.

That’s awesome...and why they need so damn much power. After your post Andrew and I decided to take the LJ down to the weigh scale south of town once we get it driving again to see where we ended up. Will be interesting to be able to compare back to yours and then mine. Between the 3 I should be able to figure out what the LJ would weight with an LS. [emoji857]

It would be interesting to see the weight difference between the inline 4.0 and 42RLE trans. I know the difference was only 40 pounds between my 3.8 liter V6/42RLE combination so hardly anything at all. The Hemi's add approx. 150 pounds compared to the 3.8/42RLE.
 

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Mike, I found the Napa P810 Grip-on Axial pliers and then fell into the Grip-on rabbit hole. Grip-on makes a family of pliers, including several axial models. Amazon has them on a single tool-addict gallery.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SOU5V2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Walmart and eBay are offering the P800 set of six Napa pliers for two wildly different prices: $383.38 and $133.50 respectively (including shipping).

Something else I didn't know I needed.
 
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zmotorsports

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Well I was pretty close on my “guesstimate” for the weight of my Jeep.

Daily driving weight of 6040 pounds according to the scale.

I would imagine in trail mode maybe another 50-60 pounds between cooler, chairs and Hi-Lift jack.
 
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zmotorsports

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Mike, I found the Napa P810 Grip-on Axial pliers and then fell into the Grip-on rabbit hole. Grip-on makes a family of pliers, including several axial models. Amazon has them on a single tool-addict gallery.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SOU5V2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Walmart and eBay are offering the P800 set of six Napa pliers for two wildly different prices: $383.38 and $133.50 respectively (including shipping).

Something else I didn't know I needed.

Bob, I bought mine on a NAPA closeout deal a while back and they only had the one pair, which was perfect because that was the one I wanted.

The price range is odd, that's a big difference in pricing and I don't know if I'd pay anywhere near that although they are kind of cool.
 

lilscorpion

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The price range is odd, that's a big difference in pricing and I don't know if I'd pay anywhere near that although they are kind of cool.


I never can tell, beyond a gut feeling, if a tool is worth the cost until I’ve had it for a while. Seems $20 is reasonable with $35 being too expensive.
 
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zmotorsports

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The wife and I just returned from a week long FMCA 4-Wheelers gathering in the Black Hills of South Dakota. We love the Black Hills and had so much fun last year we wanted to attend this year as well. We had great hosts and there were 22 couples in attendance.

Here are a few pictures from the gathering.

Our base camp was at Elkhorn Ridge RV Park in Spearfish.
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Fall colors were just beginning. Last year at this time everything was in full vibrant fall colors but it was much warmer this year and didn’t feel like fall at all yet.
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We stopped near this beautiful little lake one day for lunch.
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Air-down spot another day.
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One of several dry river bed crossings on the Camp 5 trail.
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My lovely wife and I on a trail that led us south of Sturgis and then west. If you look really close you can see the faces of Mt. Rushmore way off in the distance.
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On Tuesday we had a “down day” where everybody was on their own to do whatever they wanted. My wife and I love Custer State Park so we took off on a drive south through the park and returned via the Needles Highway which is also a favorite of ours.

They were getting ready for the buffalo roundup in the park.
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The event officially ended on Thursday with a nice bar-b-que/pot luck dinner but we opted to stay another day and run some more trails with friends. We left on Saturday and drove the 640 miles straight through to home. Unfortunately we drove through some weather but saw several wonderful rainbows along the way.
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Thanks for looking.
 

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zmotorsports

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Yesterday after breakfast I commenced my post-vacation cleaning ritual. Due to the heavy rain we encountered on the drive home, the cleaning was much more involved than normal resulting in pressure washing the engine bays and undercarriages of both the coach and the Jeep.

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Thanks for looking.
 

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OutlawDrifter

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Mike, I love the Black Hills, that's about 2-2.5hrs north of where I grew up. Custer State Park is always fun, did any of the wild donkey's come up to your window looking for handouts? Spearfish Canyon is always a beautiful sight!

My dad and I used to help with the Fort Robinson buffalo fall roundup. Intimidating creatures, especially close up and from horseback. You suggest a direction to go, you don't push them like cattle.


Thanks for sharing!
 
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zmotorsports

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Mike, I love the Black Hills, that's about 2-2.5hrs north of where I grew up. Custer State Park is always fun, did any of the wild donkey's come up to your window looking for handouts? Spearfish Canyon is always a beautiful sight!

My dad and I used to help with the Fort Robinson buffalo fall roundup. Intimidating creatures, especially close up and from horseback. You suggest a direction to go, you don't push them like cattle.


Thanks for sharing!

Thanks Marc.

Yes, the wild burros are always a treat. Many years ago on our first visit to the park we were confronted by them and now they are one of the highlights of the trip. One will stand in the middle of the road while the others come up alongside the cars for handouts. My wife always makes sure to have carrots or snacks to feed them when we are heading into the park.

One of the trails we did ended in Spearfish Canyon south of the falls area so we took our time traveling back to camp as that canyon is so very scenic.

Thanks for following along and commenting Marc, I appreciate it.
 

gearhead1960

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My wife and I love Custer State Park so we took off on a drive south through the park and returned via the Needles Highway which is also a favorite of ours.

We did a tour of SD several years ago and actually stayed at the lodge inside Custer State Park. We got trapped by the herd of Buffalo several times during our stay there. They were like flies....everywhere....:lol_hitti

Needles Highway was very cool, especially the area you have to go through the tunnel.

Have you been to Sylvan Lake? We thought that place was very nice also...have to laugh everytime I see it on National Treasure III...:lol_hitti

While out there, we also stayed inside Badlands NP in the cabins they have there. What an exceptionally beautiful place....

The coolest place we hit was getting a tour of the missile control center for the decommissioned missile sites.

:beer:
 
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zmotorsports

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Mike, looks like some beautiful country you visited. Thanks for sharing your adventures!

It was a great event. Thanks for stopping by and checking things our Robert.


We did a tour of SD several years ago and actually stayed at the lodge inside Custer State Park. We got trapped by the herd of Buffalo several times during our stay there. They were like flies....everywhere....:lol_hitti

Needles Highway was very cool, especially the area you have to go through the tunnel.

Have you been to Sylvan Lake? We thought that place was very nice also...have to laugh everytime I see it on National Treasure III...:lol_hitti

While out there, we also stayed inside Badlands NP in the cabins they have there. What an exceptionally beautiful place....

The coolest place we hit was getting a tour of the missile control center for the decommissioned missile sites.

:beer:

Sylvan Lake is great. We had some time to kill this trip and walked around it. My wife always comments about how much she likes how the rocks seem to just protrude up from the water. It is definitely a gorgeous little lake.

Another section of highway we really like is the Pigtail just north of Custer State Park. That's the route we generally take heading into the park, from the north south via the Pigtail highway. Very scenic and breathtaking views.

Thanks for following along.


Mike the vacation looked amazing! I love seeing pictures of places I’ve never been. Thanks for posting them up. The rig looks great too.

Thank you and thanks for checking in on my thread. Glad you enjoy the pictures. Everything ran great this trip. The coach purred right along and the Jeep performed flawlessly.
 
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zmotorsports

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I thought I would report back on my suspension alterations that I made just prior to this gathering.

I swapped out my rear coil springs for some with a little bit higher spring rate and they seemed to work as well if not better than I had hoped. No more bottoming out in the rear and they absorb the bumps beautifully. On big ledge climbs the front end didn't seem to unload like last months trip but I want to test it a bit more in Moab before I call that scenario a complete success.

I also think I have my bump stops dialed in perfectly. I was at full stuff on several occasions with the front end and no rubbing anywhere, even at full lock with the steering. I know I could get a little more uptravel if I were to install flat fenders but I like the looks of the OEM fenders and it seems to still perform great with the amount of uptravel that I have.

I also think the Nitto Ridge Grapplers are a close to perfect match for the type of driving/trails that I run. South Dakota had a LOT of rain prior to our gathering beginning and although I absolutely despise mud, they performed well in the mud that I had to drive in. They also continue to amaze me when running at speed aired down how smooth they are yet still allow the Jeep to be very responsive. Crawling over the slippery rocks they even did very well as the rocks/boulders in South Dakota are much more smooth and slick than other areas that we have wheeled this year.

As for drivetrain, the 6.2 liter LS engine and six-speed transmission performed flawlessly the entire week. When driving off-road with this combination I still feel as though I am cheating. On pavement sight-seeing netted me great fuel mileage as well. I was getting an average of around 12~ish between highway getting to the trails and then running the trails and back to camp. On the couple of highway days where the wife and I went sight-seeing I was getting around 16.75 MPG running between 55 and 65 MPH. Much better than I ever got with the little 3.8 liter V6.

For the most part I consider the few suspension alterations a success and I am very pleased with the performance of the Jeep this past week.
 
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zmotorsports

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It's great to hear that you have that Jeep so dialed in.


Good job! :thumbup: But then again, I know you wouldn't have it any other way.


:beer:

Thanks Dan. It's taken a bit of testing and playing around with various springs and bump stop heights but well worth it based on this past week's trail performance.
 

LXCam

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Thanks Cam. Yes, it was a great trip.

Hope all is well in your corner of the world my friend.

Life is good bud,

Made another equipment run to the shop yesterday so only two more loads and the house can go on the market. Plus 6 months ago I came into this with my division being deep in the red and I've not only turned that around I've landed a 8 figure project we start on next week. So as soon as I can get the wife and my dogs moved out here, life will be great.
 

gearhead1960

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On the couple of highway days where the wife and I went sight-seeing I was getting around 16.75 MPG running between 55 and 65 MPH. Much better than I ever got with the little 3.8 liter V6.

That's no surprise....the V8 is loafing along running at ideal efficiency :beer:, whereas the V6 was working it's **** off, sucking up fuel, just to keep up....:lol_hitti
 
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zmotorsports

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Life is good bud,

Made another equipment run to the shop yesterday so only two more loads and the house can go on the market. Plus 6 months ago I came into this with my division being deep in the red and I've not only turned that around I've landed a 8 figure project we start on next week. So as soon as I can get the wife and my dogs moved out here, life will be great.

That is awesome Cam. Glad to hear it.
 
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zmotorsports

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That's no surprise....the V8 is loafing along running at ideal efficiency :beer:, whereas the V6 was working it's **** off, sucking up fuel, just to keep up....:lol_hitti

Agreed. My 3.8 liter V6 would go into power enrichment mode with even the slightest incline or rolling hill whereas the 6.2 liter engine is just lumbering along. My RPM's while in the 55-65 MPH range were in the 1500-1750 range and just sipping the gasoline with still plenty of power on tap.
 

mmsheb

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Mike,
Your knowledge and ability to put it into practice continue to amaze me. I've only followed you for a few months, but I like how you think and what you do. Makes me want a jeep JUST LIKE YOURS!

We spent about a week in the Custer State Park and vicinity with family in early July this year. Our two children and four grandchildren joined us as an early 50th anniversary trip since when we actually are married 50 years come February they will all be in school or working.

Great pictures you have. We have some friends arriving in Custer today for the roundup.
Mike in WI
 

mercracing

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Mike, I’m sure if you want to wash the underside of the Jeep you can put it on the lift, but how do you wash the underside of your coach?

Thanks,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

shortykorte

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Great way and place to spend a week vacation. Have you rode the area by bike. I got to spend a week in that area and rode over to Yellowstone on my Valkyrie. Beautiful place to ride a bike and be one with nature.


Shorty Korte
Always remember quality in QST

Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal
 
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zmotorsports

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Mike,
Your knowledge and ability to put it into practice continue to amaze me. I've only followed you for a few months, but I like how you think and what you do. Makes me want a jeep JUST LIKE YOURS!

We spent about a week in the Custer State Park and vicinity with family in early July this year. Our two children and four grandchildren joined us as an early 50th anniversary trip since when we actually are married 50 years come February they will all be in school or working.

Great pictures you have. We have some friends arriving in Custer today for the roundup.
Mike in WI


Thank you for the comments and congratulations on your soon to be 50th Anniversary. That is a huge milestone and something to be proud of. My wife and I just had our 30th in June and pushing towards that 50th.

Thank you for following along on my projects.
 
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zmotorsports

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Mike, I’m sure if you want to wash the underside of the Jeep you can put it on the lift, but how do you wash the underside of your coach?

Thanks,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't put the Jeep on the lift because I don't want the water inside of my shop so I wash both by leaning underneath and strategically spraying off the road grime. With the coach I raise up the air suspension which allows it to be about 4" above ride height which helps a lot, then just lying on my side and spraying it off. I definitely get wet doing so which is why I only do it a couple times a year or whenever I end up driving through weather. Seems like this year each trip has been driving through weather so I've washed the undercarriage nearly every trip this year.:headscrat

Thanks for checking in on my projects and commenting.
 
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zmotorsports

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Great way and place to spend a week vacation. Have you rode the area by bike. I got to spend a week in that area and rode over to Yellowstone on my Valkyrie. Beautiful place to ride a bike and be one with nature.


Shorty Korte
Always remember quality in QST

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Thanks Shorty. Yes it was a great trip. We used to haul our 2004 HD Ultra Classic as well as the Jeep in our 26' enclosed trailer when we traveled and did ride the area between Sturgis and Mt. Rushmore about six or so years ago but we don't take the bike these days as we have so much fun with the Jeep. At the rally there were two others that also carried bikes, one in a trailer and one on a Hydralift on the rear of their coach and neither of them even unloaded their bikes so I guess I'm not the only one. I just found we enjoy getting off-road with the Jeep whenever we travel that we were riding the bike less and less when traveling so we sold the trailer and quit taking the bike.

It is a nice place to ride but a better place to wheel.:beer:
 

lilscorpion

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I thought I would report back on my suspension alterations that I made just prior to this gathering.

I swapped out my rear coil springs for some with a little bit higher spring rate and they seemed to work as well if not better than I had hoped. No more bottoming out in the rear and they absorb the bumps beautifully. On big ledge climbs the front end didn't seem to unload like last months trip but I want to test it a bit more in Moab before I call that scenario a complete success.
Awesome! Did the spring rate increase noticably change the comfort on-road or off between obstacles? Can you remind us which fox shocks you have them paired with? Are they the smoothies?

I also think I have my bump stops dialed in perfectly. I was at full stuff on several occasions with the front end and no rubbing anywhere, even at full lock with the steering. I know I could get a little more uptravel if I were to install flat fenders but I like the looks of the OEM fenders and it seems to still perform great with the amount of uptravel that I have.
I'm on the verge of going to flat fenders for a variety of reasons but really like the look of our jeeps with factory fenders. Good to hear that you clear without issues, I must have a little work to do on mine as my rear rubbed in the front last trip out. I can't remember, have you swapped out the factory arms for adjustable ones?

I also think the Nitto Ridge Grapplers are a close to perfect match for the type of driving/trails that I run...
Glad to hear they're working well for you. I think they're the perfect tire (thus far) both on and off road. Mine seem to be wearing faster than I had expected so it'll be interesting to see how yours do in the longevity department.

As for drivetrain, the 6.2 liter LS engine and six-speed transmission performed flawlessly the entire week...
You know if you ever report back otherwise you'll ruin my plans...it's an expectation now. ;)
 
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zmotorsports

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Awesome! Did the spring rate increase noticably change the comfort on-road or off between obstacles? Can you remind us which fox shocks you have them paired with? Are they the smoothies? At first I thought they were a little stiff but after only a few short miles I realized that they were about perfect because the lower spring rate springs were allowing too much compression resulting in a soft or spongy feel to the ride. On hard corners/curves I was getting a bit more body roll than I liked also. Once I installed the new Metalcloack dual rate springs with the higher spring rate I quickly realized that it was much more sure footed having less "sponginess" to the rear of the Jeep and feels much more planted going into corners and/or tight curves. Canyon driving is a hoot now as I can actually accelerate through a curve and not feel like the rear end is squatting too much. It rides fantastic both on and off-road, much better than before.

Off-road I didn't hit my jounce stops at all like before when going through a dip or whoop. The only time I got up against my rear jounce stops was when crawling and slowly compressing the rear springs to full stuff or nearly full stuff. Also the couple of ledges I climbed up I had noticed that the Jeep didn't seem to have as much weight transfer to the rear like it did prior, but in all honesty the ledges weren't quite as big as the ones I experience in places like Moab so I'll be able to have more information after next months trip to Moab.

As for shocks, I am running the Fox 2.0 non-reservoir shocks. Sorry I don't have the part numbers handy but they are the ones for a JKU with a 4-6 inch lift so I could get a bit more extension (droop). On compression I have my bumpstops set up so they are about an inch and a half before fully compressed. With my 35's they were within about 3/8" prior to full compression but I had to add some bump stop for the 37" tires. I was very pleased with how it still flexes out even with 2.25" of front bumpstop over stock in the front and 3.5" over stock in the rear.



I'm on the verge of going to flat fenders for a variety of reasons but really like the look of our jeeps with factory fenders. Good to hear that you clear without issues, I must have a little work to do on mine as my rear rubbed in the front last trip out. I can't remember, have you swapped out the factory arms for adjustable ones? I was very adamant about keeping my OE fenders and NOT going to flat fenders from the very beginning. I get quite a bit of slack over why I don't go to flatty's and get another 1.25"-1.5" of uptravel but I simply don't care for the looks and I have said all along I want my Jeep to be a sleeper and keep the OE look years down the road. For some reason when I see a nice clean YJ or TJ with a few inches of lift, nice tires/wheels and stock flares but a lot of quality goodies underneath where it counts I just drool all over it and that is the way I want mine to stay. I've even bought another full set of nearly new OEM take-off fenders from a club member for a song as he was removing the OE fenders to install flat fenders. I will have them for if/when I ever damage mine.

As for rubbing in the rear. When I cut my front pinch seams down in the rear fender wells I cut them a bit further than needed because I knew one day I would be going to 37" tires. I cut them and welded the pinch seam back together about 8 years ago to the point where they are almost perfectly flat with the inner fender. In the rear of the rear fender well, I did have to heat up and reform the plastic inner fender very slightly because during full stuff the tire was just rubbing the rear and I didn't want the tire to catch the edge and roll it under. I think I rubbed in the rear because when I built my control arms I shifted the axle rearward very slightly to assist in clearing the front pinch seam and may have gone just a tad too much. Right now at full stuff with the rear suspension I am clearing the front pinch seam by about 3/4" and the rear inner fender and bumper by about 3/8". Like I mentioned my control arms are adjustable but I built them when I got tired of continually replacing the bushings in the BDS control arms. I am also long-armed all the way around. I used Johnny Joints at the frame ends and OEM rubber encapsulated ones at the axle ends all the way around the Jeep.



Glad to hear they're working well for you. I think they're the perfect tire (thus far) both on and off road. Mine seem to be wearing faster than I had expected so it'll be interesting to see how yours do in the longevity department.

Shoot, I hate hearing that they are wearing faster than expected. Mine have nearly 11k driven miles on them and about another 4k of flat-towed miles and still look very good for 15k miles. I did however get a little rock rash on two of my new Raceline wheels last week but I knew that would happen and it is pretty much unavoidable if you plan on playing in the rocks at all.


You know if you ever report back otherwise you'll ruin my plans...it's an expectation now. ;)

Thanks for following along Matt and I hope I answered your questions to your satisfaction. Sorry if I rambled a bit but I wanted to convey as much information as possible and as detailed as possible so it would at least have some value.

As of right now I don't think there is anything I would change and just want to drive the hell out of it. I actually talked to a couple of people about doing LS swaps in their Jeeps but doubt I'll hear back because you know how people like to talk and very few ever follow through.:headscrat
 
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zmotorsports

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My son brought his Jeep over this afternoon so we can begin the next round of work.
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I then racked the wife’s car and performed a service on it.
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It’s supposed to be a cold and wet weekend so it looks like a great time to get some work done in the shop.

In preparation for the colder temp arriving, I vacuumed the gas-fired heater out in the shop and cleaned and inspected the house furnace then removed the glass front from the fireplace and gave it a good cleaning last night.
 

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Bigblue&Goldie

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AZ
I think your son is a chip off the ol' block; his Jeep looks as clean as yours! Can't wait to see what's up next.
 
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