Zoning Variance...

[ururk]

Long story short, I've been wanting to build a workshop for a few years, had a site on my property in mind, but there were water issues. I've identified a higher spot, which works. However...

In December of last year the township voted in a new ordinance. Based on this ordinance, I have an 8' x 154' strip that I could potentially build on. This is due to where the house is located, and the new setback requirements. 50' from the rear property line (used to be 30'). The house is up against the original 30' rear easement, and is 28' deep. Hence 8' of buildable land. The reason I only have 8' is because all "accessory structures" must be behind the front line of the principal residence. Property is 2 acres, zoned A-R. The township generally speaking, has a 2-acre minimum, with some exceptions (center of "town", a few "subdivisions").

How much is this going to cost me? I already know I have the following fees:

$100 to meet with a consultant (recommended by the twp zoning person, same consultant who I think helped write the ordinance)
$500 to have the zoning board review my variance request
????

Ultimate goal is a 20x32 gambrel roof barn, for a wood workshop/storage. Not a car garage like a lot of folks on here.

I have fairly accurate measurements of everything, but will I need to get a surveyor to measure things? Should I just give up now? I'm pretty frustrated, because I was very close to starting this project last year, and I don't think the previous ordinance had the front line of the house ruling.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[DekeT]

Long story short, I've been wanting to build a workshop for a few years, had a site on my property in mind, but there were water issues. I've identified a higher spot, which works. However...

In December of last year the township voted in a new ordinance. Based on this ordinance, I have an 8' x 154' strip that I could potentially build on. This is due to where the house is located, and the new setback requirements. 50' from the rear property line (used to be 30'). The house is up against the original 30' rear easement, and is 28' deep. Hence 8' of buildable land. The reason I only have 8' is because all "accessory structures" must be behind the front line of the principal residence. Property is 2 acres, zoned A-R. The township generally speaking, has a 2-acre minimum, with some exceptions (center of "town", a few "subdivisions").

How much is this going to cost me? I already know I have the following fees:

$100 to meet with a consultant (same consultant who helped write the ordinance)
$500 to have the zoning board review my variance request
????

Ultimate goal is a 20x32 gambrel roof barn, for a wood workshop/storage. Not a car garage like a lot of folks on here.

I have fairly accurate measurements of everything, but will I need to get a surveyor to measure things? Should I just give up now? I'm pretty frustrated, because I was very close to starting this project last year, and I don't think the previous ordinance had the front line of the house ruling.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Does the new ordinance read front house line or front setback line? Big difference. Without being able to view your entire ordinance any answer is just pure speculation and worthless.

 

[ururk]

Does the new ordinance read front house line or front setback line? Big difference. Without being able to view your entire ordinance any answer is just pure speculation and worthless.

Front house line - specifically the "front of the building or cornice/roof projections".

Ordinance:

http://bit.ly/1pAJOmy

Articles 3 & 30 are the ones I was directed to read.

 

[ururk]

Also, I'm not trying to "get around" the zoning law. It is the law. I'm contacting my neighbors, to get their approval or concerns. Interestingly enough, they all have barns / storage structures, that do not mesh with the current ordinance (as it alway will be the case when new ordinances are enacted).

 

[jwh]

First of all, I think $500.00 for a variance request is outrageous. I had to get a variance myself, granted it was 25+ years ago but I think at the time it was $50.00, which I had to spend twice because it got denied the first time.

Second, when you go to the variance hearing (I'm assuming there will be one) make sure you have your "ducks in a row". That means what you want to do, where you want to do it, why you want to do it, and why modifying your current structure isn't feasible.

As I said, I had to go to the Board twice. Got blown out of the water the first time, answered all their questions from the first time the second time in my presentation.

Was able to get a variance the second tine. Not everything I wanted but a workable solution.

Good luck.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

township board voted this in? or was this put to a public vote? Next township election could be interesting. A Few new faces would help repeal parts of the new rules.. ?

Polk County, Mn recently adopted a full new set of zoning regulations. I downloaded the 277 page pdf and have been reading through it.... One thing that stands out is permit fee, permit fee and, permit fee... required for some repairs and updates that I would not think of as being major projects.... According to the new rules; your septic system has to meet current code before a building permit would be issued for anything else; such as a deck.. Normal repairs such as painting and shingles no not need a permit. I am in agreement with some of the rules, and disfavor others.... Some rules are more for big city Minneapolis-Saint Paul residential areas than ten acres out in my part of the stix type rules... But, I do live on lakeshore property; so extra rules apply to my property for that reason..

I suggest getting a full copy of your new rules and study them... People have applied for a variance on setback rules around here.. If reasonable and without neighborhood objections, they usually get them... Ask your neighbors for their thoughts, sketch up a plan with the property lines and other buildings included, and check into a variance.. Take photos of neighboring properties that have accessory structures in the front yard.. If you find yourself running up against a brick wall,,, remember the election that is coming up..

 

[ururk]

township board voted this in? or was this put to a public vote? Next township election could be interesting. A Few new faces would help repeal parts of the new rules.. ?

I suggest getting a full copy of your new rules and study them... People have applied for a variance on setback rules around here.. If reasonable and without neighborhood objections, they usually get them... Ask your neighbors for their thoughts, sketch up a plan with the property lines and other buildings included, and check into a variance.. Take photos of neighboring properties that have accessory structures in the front yard.. If you find yourself running up against a brick wall,,, remember the election that is coming up..

Yes - the board voted it in. I put a bit.ly link to the zoning ordinance in a follow-up post - it is a fairly lengthy document. At this Wed "consultant" meeting, I'm going to bring what documents/sketches I have, and photos of my neighbors accessory structures so that they can see that our area is characterized by "nonconforming" structures. It won't have any impact on the variance request, but at least they can tell me whether I should include that information in my request.

Additionally, two other points:

• I was told over the phone that is was "poor planning" where our house was built. It was built in 1983, and while I don't know what zoning laws were in effect then, I highly doubt they included the front line requirement
• When I indicated the $500 fee seemed a bit high, the person responded that I was effectively asking them to break the law, and their time needed to be compensated

I briefly looked over the state statute, and it allows for a 'per-diem' to compensate board members for their time. I think this is how they justify the cost.

Part of the problem is that our twp has been dealing with growth issues. Communities around us have become sprawling cities, and our twp is trying to preserve its rural character, or so they say. The latest bunch were voted in because a landowner, using his farm for fall activities (corn maze type stuff) was shut down by the (then) supervisor. Said owner is the current supervisor. The previous supervisor also had made some questionable agreements with a land developer, etc... All in all it's pretty screwed up, and the fear is that property will be gobbled up and developed. I think the current ordinance (linked above) tries to address this, but frankly I understand only a portion of it.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Front house line - specifically the "front of the building or cornice/roof projections".

Ordinance:

http://bit.ly/1pAJOmy

Articles 3 & 30 are the ones I was directed to read.

Gather your data and prepare a presentation for what you want to do. Make it pretty with pictures and drawings. Letters from neighbors can help. The neighbor that was most affected by my variance even came to the meeting to support my request.


Or add a cornice or roof projection to the house. Build the barn within code. Then remove that cheap ugly cornice or roof projection.

 

[ururk]

Or add a cornice or roof projection to the house. Build the barn within code. Then remove that cheap ugly cornice or roof projection.

I can't tell you how much I've wanted to build that 20' cornice

 

[Fixnfly]

I was able to get around my local zoning B.S. by proving my property was deeded before 1968. Current rules are 30 and 50 foot setbacks which would put the garage on top of my house.

 

[ururk]

I was able to get around my local zoning B.S. by proving my property was deeded before 1968. Current rules are 30 and 50 foot setbacks which would put the garage on top of my house.

Nice!

Attached is a picture of what I'm working with. The green areas are the only ones where an accessory structure is allowed.

 

[Cyberbear]

If you've already gone this far, you may wish to verify that the township actually has jurisdiction over your property. I ran into a similar situation years ago when I built my 30 x 80 storage/shop building on my private property. The county code enforcement division was threatening me with $10,000.00 a day fines if I didn't comply and was trying to call my building a "public nuisance."
As it turned out, after a little research on the Web, I found that the county's jurisdiction was only over municipal property, not private property, and that consenting to their codes was only voluntary, which they never tell anyone or will admit to. I challenged them to prove their lawful jurisdiction, and the county attorneys went silent and I've never heard from them after that. Now, many years later, the statute of limitations ran out and they are precluded from ever raising the issue again. Sometimes you can fight city hall, and win, but it's not easy. Govt. is very reluctant to surrender authority if they can convince you to volunteer away your private property rights through fear and scare tactics. Perhaps I was lucky, but I've done this several times in different counties over the years.

 

[sands35]

Perhaps making the workshop "attached" with a "breeze-way" will side step the accessory building requirements?

 

[sublimate]

Perhaps making the workshop "attached" with a "breeze-way" will side step the accessory building requirements?

+1
I had to attach mine to get by zoning.

 

[Falcon67]

Additionally, two other points:

• I was told over the phone that is was "poor planning" where our house was built. It was built in 1983, and while I don't know what zoning laws were in effect then, I highly doubt they included the front line requirement
• When I indicated the $500 fee seemed a bit high, the person responded that I was effectively asking them to break the law, and their time needed to be compensated

Point one - BS.
Point two - also BS. It's not essentially "law", it's guidelines and requirements. And allowances are specifically made for exceptions, otherwise there would be no car ports or other things in the world. You should only have to prove the restrictions create a hardship on you that your neighbors already enjoy. The first "car port" on the block is the hardest, after that the rest are significantly easy as the cat is out of the bag. If your neighbors in the vicinity already enjoy having outbuildings that don't meet the setbacks or other restrictions, why should they deny you the same privilege. Other than they are paid asshats. Nobody around here gets a"per diem" for sitting on a zoning board. I call that BS #3. Serve your community and keep your hand out of it's pocket.

 

[KELLHAMMER]

The fee doesn't sound outrageous. A application fee of $400 is common around my area. I 've presented on clients behalf many times , dimensional variance requests. Zoning boards are going to look at several facts. The fact that they have tightened the setback or building restriction line, they expect to get requests for variances. Older neighborhoods are typically the ones most affected.
One thing you must be able to prove to them is you have no other place to make the improvement your are requesting. Meaning could you put your addition somewhere else on the property that wouldn't require a variance.
They term the like to use is : are your experiencing "extreme practical difficulty" in complying with the standards.
They will also look at the fabric of the neighborhood to measure if your request is not out of line or out of character for the neighborhood.
Also, my experience has been that they weight the opinions of the neighbors living directly adjacent to your property the highest . Any neighbors further away have less of a say. So someone 4 blocks away cant say their view is a ruined by your request.
Having neighbors provide letters or speaking at the meeting to support your request has a lot of weight.
Lastly, you reasoning for your "extreme pratical difficulty" cant be cost of doing it another way or in another location on the property

 

[ururk]

Thanks for all the points!

1) To the left of the house there are mature pine trees (+30 years old) that we do not want to cut down. If it came down to it, I'd not build rather than cut them down. This drawing doesn't show all trees, but I'm going to drop them in as best as I can. I have an aerial view that I got from the county's online GIS tool, which is pretty accurate.

2) All of my neighbors have outbuildings - one neighbor has a 30x40 metal "barn". I'm planning on drawing their properties out, including setbacks and buildings, to show that in our little neck of the woods (all 4 of us) we are disproportionally hurt by the new ordinance re: what we want to do. A few years ago, one neighbor wanted to build it in the back, but they made him build it in the front of his house (off to the side). I think this was pre-current ordinance.

3) South of the septic is a reserve field, such that if our septic went bad, we could use that. I'm not too sure if that is code, but I could see them having me put it there if it isn't.

4) Again, based on ordinance, the green areas on the map are the only allowed building places, hence why I have no place to put it. The building itself is allowed (width, length, height) - just no location for it.

Right now, if I'm calculating it right, including driveway, we are at 5/6% land occupancy/coverage. Adding the barn will bump that to 6/7%. Twp allows 10%.

Thanks!!

 

[sands35]

Double check the definition of the house "front". At least in my area, I had to string together ~5-6 different line items and definitions in the zoning laws to figure it out.

At least in my area, the "front" is the side of the house that faces the street that gives the house the address. My house is a corner lot, so it "could" have been the side of the house defined as the "front" as far as the zoning laws where concerned.

I'm not totally sure, but I think you drew the front line 90* off from where it should be.

 

[buddyboy]

in ohio they follow the '7 duncan factors'

Duncan Factors
1. Whether the properry will yield a reasonable return or whether there can be a
beneficial use of the properfy without the variance;
2. Whether the variance is substantial;
3. Whether the essential character of the neighborhood would be substantially
altered or adjoining properties suffer a "substantial detriment'
4. Whether the variance would adversely affect the delivery of governmental
services i.e. fire and ambulance services
5. Whether the properly owner purchased the properry with knowledge of the
zoning restrictions;
Use variance: Self-imposed Hardship is fatal
Area variance: Self-imposed Hardship is not fatal, rather the hardship should
be balanced with other Duncan Factors.
6. Whether the problem can be solved by some other manner other than the
granting of a variance;
7. Whether the variance preserves the "spirit and intent" of the zoning
requirement and whether "substantial justice" would be done by granting the
variance.

 

[ururk]

I'm not totally sure, but I think you drew the front line 90* off from where it should be.

When I spoke with the zoning admin, she said the private road defined the front of the house. This may or may not have been because of where the driveway came off of the private road (I'm adding it to my questions when I meet them tomorrow).

 

[PCO6]

in ohio they follow the '7 duncan factors'

Duncan Factors ...

Those are all reasonable tests and similar to what are applied here in Ontario. One notable exception though is what your knowledge was, or what you claim it was, when you purchased the property. The authorities couldn't care less about that. That's what due diligence is for.

In accordance with the Ontario Planning Planning Act applications are actually called "minor" variances ... and they better be. You cannot vary the land use only the provisions of the zoning by-law. If you present your application by showing relatively small percentage changes to the provisions you stand a good chance. If you want to cut your front yard setback in half or double the permitted building height for example your chance of success would be very low.

 

[DekeT]

kellhammer has provided you with the only useful information in this thread. You need read no further. You will do well to ignore the chest pounding anti-whatevers.

 

[Matt The Hammer]

+2 for Kellhammer.

Commercial developers get numerous variances all the time. You may need to negotiate with the zoning board a little. Not money, but things included in your plan. More privacy trees, etc.

Another thing is that with a variance, the nearby land owners will need to be contacted by the town through registered mail. Informing them of your proposed variance and that if they had opposition that they could attend the hearing.

Check on that too. Wouldn't hurt to discuss with your neighbors so that your process is that much easier.

 

[PCO6]

^^^ That's true. Although zoned land provides certainty it doesn't anticipate all reasonable development options. I have developed many commercial, industrial and residential properties and it's common to request variances.

As for notice, we have to send unregistered letters to every property owner within 120m, erect a sign on the property to explain the proposal and provide the hearing date and ususlly place a notice in the local paper.

 

[ururk]

Another thing is that with a variance, the nearby land owners will need to be contacted by the town through registered mail. Informing them of your proposed variance and that if they had opposition that they could attend the hearing.

Check on that too. Wouldn't hurt to discuss with your neighbors so that your process is that much easier.

I've started that process. Heard back from one who is very supportive, answering questions/concerns of another (he wants me to cut down the trees) - he has two outbuildings and horses, and haven't heard back from the third (but they will likely not care). Haven't been able to get in touch with our neighbors to the north. They just built a huge pole barn on their property.

 

[KELLHAMMER]

URUK
I just looked at you plot plan
Which side do you maintain is your front yard?
the main road or the private road side?
Typically , your address is an indicator to which road is the front yard side
Your house is also non conforming by the looks of it. You can get that adjustment taken care of, to make it conforming in the same meeting. That way, if you decide to build an addition later you wont need to go back to the Board for approval.

So for instance, someday you want to build a new attached garage at the end of your driveway the rear setback is currently a problem. You can have them move that setback line to the rear wall the existing house at your upcoming meeting

 

[Krash Kadillak]

Seems to me an ideal spot would be in between the driveway and the septic field. May have to make the building not so deep, but maybe wide, parallel to the driveway.

 

[ururk]

URUK
I just looked at you plot plan
Which side do you maintain is your front yard?
the main road or the private road side?
Typically , your address is an indicator to which road is the front yard side
Your house is also non conforming by the looks of it. You can get that adjustment taken care of, to make it conforming in the same meeting. That way, if you decide to build an addition later you wont need to go back to the Board for approval.

Private road side.

So for instance, someday you want to build a new attached garage at the end of your driveway the rear setback is currently a problem. You can have them move that setback line to the rear wall the existing house at your upcoming meeting

Really? Interesting! I'm finishing up a diagram that shows trees, will post tonight. The yard looks very sparse, but it is full of trees.

 

[sands35]

When I spoke with the zoning admin, she said the private road defined the front of the house. This may or may not have been because of where the driveway came off of the private road (I'm adding it to my questions when I meet them tomorrow).

Given what you have said about the zoning admin, it sounds like she is trying to avoid work.

Get a copy of the zoning regs. Read them yourself.

"Front" off a private road doesn't sound right, but I may be wrong.

Did you check on attached / detached yet?

Trees - nice trees are great. But 30 year old pines are pretty common. Great way to find some timber for a timber frame construction. A 100 year old, 150 foot walnut/oak/beech/etc. is a different story.

 

[ururk]

Given what you have said about the zoning admin, it sounds like she is trying to avoid work.

Get a copy of the zoning regs. Read them yourself.

"Front" off a private road doesn't sound right, but I may be wrong..

From the ordinance, this is where I think she is getting it from (our is one of two corner lots):

Where a block of double frontage lots exists, one (1) road may be designated by the Zoning Administrator as the front road for all lots in the block. Otherwise, both frontages shall be considered front yards for purposes of this Ordinance.

If I could convince them to consider the main road to be a front road, I'd have a lot of options, but that still leaves questions about the area just south of the septic field whether that needs to be reserved or not.

 

[LB-1911]

If I could convince them to consider the main road to be a front road, I'd have a lot of options, but that still leaves questions about the area just south of the septic field whether that needs to be reserved or not.

When you're on septic, you have to have a "reserve area" identified and as a rule of thumb the following applies.

The reserve area is a site on your property suitable for a new septic system if your current system fails. Treat this area with care just as you do your septic system. This area is not a parking lot, great place for a basketball court or hot tub and definitely not the location for your house addition. Your reserve area should be clearly designated on your "as-built" drawing and preserved for future on-site sewage system installation.

 

[stage20]

from my experience you encounter another fee at each step of the process. i was not told what all my fees would be until i spent about 700 bucks for engineering and survey. now they wanted a water run off plot, a right of way survey, not a boundry survey(125 bucks an hour, min 4 hrs. guy said it would take 6hrs or so) and then a 2,000 dollar fee for the variance itself. i had been told i walk in front of a board and hand them money and then i get to do what i want. granted all the docs and papers have to be changed at the courthouse, but i feel the fee was too much so i just moved my building to the other side of the property and no variance needed. im in florida, so that should tell you something.

 

[Falcon67]

2) All of my neighbors have outbuildings - one neighbor has a 30x40 metal "barn". I'm planning on drawing their properties out, including setbacks and buildings, to show that in our little neck of the woods (all 4 of us) we are disproportionally hurt by the new ordinance re: what we want to do. A few years ago, one neighbor wanted to build it in the back, but they made him build it in the front of his house (off to the side). I think this was pre-current ordinance.

Google Earth is your friend. If you have Windows 7 on your PC, use the SnipIt tool to cut any map pictures you might need, usually easier than using GE to do it.

Also, you might check the local tax authority web site. Ours has property line maps and using that you can see lot sizes and rough boundaries of the neighborhood lots. Both tools are what I used for my variance.

FWIW - Variance requests here cost $0.

 

[over40pirate]

When you go for the variance, ask them how a 8' x 75 ' building would look there.

 

[bczygan]

If there aren't too many trees in the area, I would place the building between the septic and the existing residence, and connect it to the residence with an enclosed breezeway with removable wall panels. I would leave a space between the house and shop, adequate to use as a drive. The breezeway roof would be a single span with no structural columns. That would give access to the back yard.

Connecting the building to the existing structure would allow you to place it anywhere up to the front setback line. That front setback is 50 feet. It is measured from the private road right of way or easement line. What is that measurement? If you are attached to the house, it is a house addition and can come all the way to that line.

Another solution is to get a curb cut and readdress your house to the main road.

If attaching, you could still have an accessory building too.

 

[ururk]

Thanks for the ideas - will mull them over.

Our county has an online GIS application that I'm using. I traced the house (In Adobe Illustrator) and other things (property line) from screenshots from the application. I also overlaid online PDFs of the septic to get the septic location. The tank locations jive with where they actually are, and the septic field location looks accurate as well.

I like the idea of building on the driveway apron, just not too sure where the cars would go. It would be wide enough for a single car to drive into. Hmmm.

I'm finishing up the map with trees. As I said, we've got a lot of them.

 

[ururk]

This is the final map - I marked trees with circles. It looks like a lot of trees, but the majority are poplar/elm and you can see right through the trunks. The green circles are pines - several different varieties. My goal was to tuck the barn as far into the field without going into the area that is wet, and without any tree chopping.

I also put utilities on there. Tree locations aren't exact, but as close as I can get them right now.

I didn't include any topographic information, but the house is 10' above the lowest portion. It starts dropping off at the front of the house, and at the pines to the side.

 

[bczygan]

This is the final map - I marked trees with circles. It looks like a lot of trees, but the majority are poplar/elm and you can see right through the trunks. The green circles are pines - several different varieties. My goal was to tuck the barn as far into the field without going into the area that is wet, and without any tree chopping.

I also put utilities on there. Tree locations aren't exact, but as close as I can get them right now.

I didn't include any topographic information, but the house is 10' above the lowest portion. It starts dropping off at the front of the house, and at the pines to the side.

What is the private road easement?

Show that, and the show a 50' setback inside of that. This is the line you can build up to, as long as the structure is an addition, rather than a separate building.

Using the same rationale, you could add on to the existing garage, on the other side of the house, making the rear part of the structure (Including the present garage) into shop space, with a new garage space in front of it. Since it is an addition, you aren't limited by the existing front face of the house, but can go all the way forward to the aforementioned setback line. And NO variance needed!
In addition, you can build to the height limitation for the residence, not an accessory building.

What do you think about that option?

What is the present drive composed of?

 

[ururk]

What is the private road easement?

Show that, and the show a 50' setback inside of that. This is the line you can build up to, as long as the structure is an addition, rather than a separate building.

I'm not sure what that easement is for the road. The land has a 30' setback from the front (dashed line)... will find out tomorrow what easement the road has. In the case of an addition to the East, I don't think it would come into play.

Using the same rationale, you could add on to the existing garage, on the other side of the house, making the rear part of the structure (Including the present garage) into shop space, with a new garage space in front of it. Since it is an addition, you aren't limited by the existing front face of the house, but can go all the way forward to the aforementioned setback line. And NO variance needed!
In addition, you can build to the height limitation for the residence, not an accessory building.

What do you think about that option?

I like it - but would have to figure out how parking would work, since I can't extend the apron of the driveway (septic) much.

What is the present drive composed of?

Driveway is asphalt. Private drive is dirt.

 

[bczygan]

I'm not sure what that easement is for the road. The land has a 30' setback from the front (dashed line)... will find out tomorrow what easement the road has. In the case of an addition to the East, I don't think it would come into play.



I like it - but would have to figure out how parking would work, since I can't extend the apron of the driveway (septic) much.


Driveway is asphalt. Private drive is dirt.

Please post some photos of the house and yard from all angles.

Your parking area would just move closer to the road.

Another reason to avoid a variance application besides the cost and aggravation, is that I think you will be denied. You have adequate space to add on to the existing residence.

Bill