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Zoning Variance...

Matt The Hammer

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Sep 6, 2013
Messages
79
Location
South Jersey
When you go for the variance, ask them how a 8' x 75 ' building would look there.

There's probably a building ordinance prohibiting a building of that shape. ha ha

Sometimes too - Kellhammer would know this best - if you go in willing to do anything for the board, they will make you do everything they can think of. If you go in with 'this is it' and/or mention that you will sue the township if this can't occur, your needs will be addressed. Lawsuits are avoided as best as you can when you have the town's insurance company pressuring the board to stay away from them and your town's budget is beyond tight and the additional revenue and taxes will help.

Reasonable and convincing is all you need sometimes.

Again - far from what you should do. Just things that I had seen before.
 
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KELLHAMMER

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Nov 20, 2006
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222
Location
south eastern pennsylvania
Matt
Sorry I can not provide any advice in regards to the counter measures your suggesting.


unruk
What are the current setback distances on all sides?
Based on your latest plan and you say that the front yard is on the private road side. It looks like proposed building is partially into the front yard
 

cstreu1026

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Jul 8, 2014
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28
Location
The Miami valley
Wait, you are telling me these board members get compensated for their time? Man I feel cheated having served on our town's board of zoning appeals for most of the last 10 years as a volunteer. Of course we have much much lower application fees too...$125.

I honestly don't see any reason they shouldn't grant a variance given the age of the home and the relative newness zoning code.
 
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ururk

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Jan 9, 2010
Messages
739
Location
Southeast MI
What are the current setback distances on all sides?
Based on your latest plan and you say that the front yard is on the private road side. It looks like proposed building is partially into the front yard

Rear / main road: 50' (dashed lines)
Front / side: 30' (dashed lines)

I've highlighted the green area where allowable building space is. I could probably move it back up to the 50' setback, but it would still leave the majority (24' of the building / 12' if rotated) in the front yard. The little rectangle coming off of the house is a 10x20 deck - decks are not listed as counting towards the front line of the house.

And I think there is a provision somewhere in the ordinance for building ratios, but the longbuilding is tempting :D

I mapped out my neighbors houses - the one to the east of me has a little more room to build than I do, and their outbuilding is 50% in the front yard. My other neighbors have outbuildings, one neighbor is fully in compliance, the other neighbor one building (24x24) is not allowed (per current ordinance), the other is fine (24x13). Nonconforming structures are grandfathered in, of course. The neighbors that are mostly in conformance both have >2 acres and based on how their houses are situated, most of their land can have additional accessory structures.
 
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ururk

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Jan 9, 2010
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739
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Southeast MI
I took a look at the driveway just now. It could work, but it would depend on what the requirements are for septic (distance from, if any) and whether it was attached or not.
 
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ururk

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Southeast MI
Ok - so I met with the township 'consultant'. I don't have time to write out everything, but basically I will need a variance, unless I locate it on the driveway. I had some of my lines wrong, and it only requires 10' around the house (not 50' like the twp person said, sigh).

However, he thinks I have a strong case. The Zoning board hasn't met for a variance for 9 years. Now that this new ordinance has been in place, there are two potential cases, one like mine. Evidently, they added the 'front line of the house' rule because residents were complaining that in some areas all you could see were barns, with houses in the back.

I'll post more details tonight, along with pictures.
 
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Falcon67

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Jun 11, 2009
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18,371
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Merkel, TX
9 years! Dang, it was mobile home variance of the week here for a couple of years. Sounds like good progress being made on your end. Good luck. Gather your docs, be professional in your appeal and presentation. I made a write up and several sheets of aerial pictures, lot layout with building, tax authority boundaries, etc. Made a handout for every one on the board. They seemed to appreciate the extra work, as opposed to "Weall, I'd a like to put that ol thang about on the back there..."
 

bczygan

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Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Not allowing an accessory building to be more forward than the front line of the primary structure is standard boilerplate almost everywhere, not something they decided to do in your area because of seeing too many barns. That's a funny comment anyway, as the ag zoning is for properties to have barns.

I am curious why you still seem intent on a detached building. I understand that you would think that with a 2 acre lot, you should have lots of leeway on where to put an accessory building. But the combination of the location of the existing residence, so far into the back corner of the lot, and the new larger setback lines, takes away a lot of options.

You really have 2 options.

1. locate the detached building where you really want it, and spend the time, money and effort to try for a variance.

2. Attach the new structure to the existing one, on either side, allowing you to move the front face of that combined structure as far forward (Toward the private drive), as needed, up to a line 50' from the private drive easement or right of way.

To a designer with lots of experience in these kinds of situations, I would pick the attached option.
Most places, a variance is seldom given. You have to prove that there is no other alternative, and you have to show a hardship (Not financial). Basically you need to show that you are prevented from using your property in the ways that the zoning allows by special circumstances.

I have gotten variances that were very difficult and demanding. It involved careful planning, good politicking with neighbors, excellent presentation, and the threat to the city of a lawsuit for "Taking without compensation".

I've also seen large sums of money, time and effort spent, to no avail, because the city's attitude was that "We don't give variances". Knowing your city and neighbors is critical.

You can spend the money and spin the wheel. The attached option is always there as a backup plan.

Bill
 

KELLHAMMER

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Nov 20, 2006
Messages
222
Location
south eastern pennsylvania
bczygan is right on target

Also, If zoning wont allow the building or any portion of it in the front yard. Your going to have a uphill battle.
You possibly have other places it could go, may still require a variance, but will be a much easier battle. Especially, since it sounds like they amended the zoning code to stop accessory buildings from being built in front yards.
My opinion is dimensional variances requests are not always turned down. Especially, when their dealing with older neighborhoods. They generally want people to make improvements to their homes and therefore gain by increased property taxes.
Remember also you house currently is non-conforming due to the rear setback cutting right thru the house. My experience has been they'll allow the rear setback to be moved to make your property conforming just by you asking. But plan to combine that request with your new structure placement whether you pan to attach it or not. To save by not paying for two separate variance request meetings
 
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ururk

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Southeast MI
Remember also you house currently is non-conforming due to the rear setback cutting right thru the house. My experience has been they'll allow the rear setback to be moved to make your property conforming just by you asking. But plan to combine that request with your new structure placement whether you pan to attach it or not. To save by not paying for two separate variance request meetings

That is one thing which I had wrong on my diagram. Easements haven't changed, and he said (most likely) looking at where the septic was, setbacks for the private road, that the main rd was considered the front road, putting the 50' rear setback on the septic side. This removes the two narrow strips and makes the driveway apron the only legal place to build, unless I add onto the house.

I'm still tweaking the land diagram, but will post a new one later.

There are some challenges with building on the apron (one of which is that I think the septic is closer to the driveway than I marked), and two we have 4 vehicles plus a trailer, so we currently need the apron for the cars. I'm not certain we could add on and satisfy the 'parking' needs... but I'm investigating that.

Now... I could build a breezeway from the house to the barn and it would be considered part of the house. There are no limitations on the length of a breezeway.
 

KELLHAMMER

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Nov 20, 2006
Messages
222
Location
south eastern pennsylvania
Ururk
In many cases an "accessory structures" (detached from house by at least 10 feet) can be placed closer to the property line than if it were attached to the house. Setbacks are for the principle structure. You need to read you local zoning code in regard to "accessory structures" allowable placement. Not all zoning codes are alike.

I have worked in areas where a detached garage can be within 3 feet of the side and rear property lines, as long as the detached structure is completely behind the principle structure (usually termed rear yard ) Also be aware of the max. allowable lot coverage requirement
 
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ururk

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Jan 9, 2010
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739
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Southeast MI
Ururk
In many cases an "accessory structures" (detached from house by at least 10 feet) can be placed closer to the property line than if it were attached to the house. Setbacks are for the principle structure. You need to read you local zoning code in regard to "accessory structures" allowable placement. Not all zoning codes are alike.
Will try to figure that one out.

I have worked in areas where a detached garage can be within 3 feet of the side and rear property lines, as long as the detached structure is completely behind the principle structure (usually termed rear yard ) Also be aware of the max. allowable lot coverage requirement
From what I calculated (total sq ft of land - house - shed - driveway - barn = 6%) I'm under the 10% requirement.

Been busy with some side projects, hopefully will be able to post more details tonight. I spent some time this weekend trying to figure out how it would work up by the house. I'm not too certain I could make it work, even making the structure smaller.

I do not want an attached structure (though a breezeway would be fine). I intend to cut wood, paint, and I don't want to introduce fumes/etc... into the house. That's why using the existing garage as the storage/shop wouldn't work. I'm not too sure if that is good enough of a reason for a zoning board.

I would be happy if I could fit it on the driveway, but there isn't a lot of room, without removing all the existing landscaping (tree, bushes, berm) and putting in a whole new driveway apron.
 
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