Splicing Inside Sub-Panel?

[dwall174]

Can you install a power distribution block like this inside of a sub-panel to split the power from a 40-amp breaker into 2-circuits?


Doug

 

[mm08822]

Why not use a quad breaker instead of adding this distribution block that doesn't belong in a small panel? Much cleaner, less space, probably less cost.

Is each circuit 40A ?

 

[mike93lx]

What is the application where you would need to split up a 40a circuit?

 

[dwall174]

Why not use a quad breaker instead of adding this distribution block that doesn't belong in a small panel?

Because as far as I know they don't make a quad breaker for the QO series Square D sub-panel I installed a few years ago.

The QO series double pole breakers are rated for dual wire terminations, but only up to 30-amps.

Is each circuit 40A ?

Yeah, I have a 5hp. RPC that's wired to a 40-amp breaker & I would like to also run (not at the same time) a 5hp. VFD off that same circuit.

Doug

 

[dwall174]

What is the application where you would need to split up a 40a circuit?

My 5hp RPC runs off of the 40-amp circuit.

The second line for the VFD will be running across the garage to a dust collector.


Doug

 

[kaymccampbell]

I was in your predicament, and instead, ran from my single 240 breaker to an Eaton sub box with an Eaton BQC240240 40A Quad Circuit Breaker in it, so I could split my 240 line into my lathe and dust collector, in a small form factor. It looks a touch weird, but it works.

 

[Norcal]

It would likely be cheaper to use Polaris or competitive connectors then terminal blocks.

 

[mike93lx]

Because as far as I know they don't make a quad breaker for the QO series Square D sub-panel I installed a few years ago.

The QO series double pole breakers are rated for dual wire terminations, but only up to 30-amps.

Yeah, I have a 5hp. RPC that's wired to a 40-amp breaker & I would like to also run (not at the same time) a 5hp. VFD off that same circuit.

Doug

Finally, an application where homeline is better!

Thanks for the details. Blue wire nuts will do dual #6 and it would cost about 5 bucks

Commercial Electric Winged Wire Connectors, Blue (6-Pack) EWB-6 - The Home Depot

The blue winged wire connectors feature a winged design that provides a secure grip for easy and fast installation. These connectors are used for copper to copper connections only, do not use aluminum

www.homedepot.com

 

[dwall174]

split my 240 line into my lathe and dust collector,

Well I guess I'm not the only one!
The RPC will mainly be used for a 13" South Bend lathe once I finish rebuilding it.


Doug

 

[dwall174]

It would likely be cheaper to use Polaris or competitive connectors then terminal blocks.

Yeah, I thought about those style connectors? I haven't had good luck with regular wire nuts on wires larger than 12ga.

Doug

 

[mike93lx]

Yeah, I thought about those style connectors? I haven't had good luck with regular wire nuts on wires larger than 12ga.

Doug

NSI makes one that is half the cost of polaris

NSi Industries 1/0-14 AWG Insulated Tap Connector, Black IT-1/0 - The Home Depot

Made quick and easy in-line splice and reductions by selecting this NSi Industries AWG Insulated Tap Connector in Black.

www.homedepot.com

 

[mm08822]

Now with more details, I understand your predicament.
Before you go further, ask yourself, how many more ckts will my shop need in the future? Will I keep running into the same problem?

Is now the time to bite the bullet for a larger panel? Or hold off for now and just use a few blue wire nuts as a temp for the interim?

 

[dwall174]

Now with more details, I understand your predicament.

Just to aggravate me a little more, the cover actually has 4-more spaces in it.

Before you go further, ask yourself, how many more ckts will my shop need in the future? Will I keep running into the same problem?

I've thought about that!
However, I'm pretty much out of room for anymore equipment in the garage.

Doug

 

[dwall174]

I was in your predicament, and instead, ran from my single 240 breaker to an Eaton sub box with an Eaton BQC240240 40A Quad Circuit Breaker in it.

That's an option I didn't think of.
I'll have to look into that, Thanks.

Doug

 

[toplessHO]

Whats the can made for?
if it lists one with a larger breaker count,gut the breakers,install the new
interior and add your breakers

 

[mikedodge]

Why don't you do like most people and stick a junction box outside the panel somewhere to branch off to the different loads?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Because as far as I know they don't make a quad breaker for the QO series Square D sub-panel I installed a few years ago.

Older (25+) used different tandems. If you can find single pole (120V) tandems, you can shuffle the single pole breakers around and fit another two pole breaker in.

 

[dwall174]

Whats the can made for?

If you're referring to the electrical box behind the cover?
The original panel is a 125-Amp panel with 12 spaces/12 circuits. QO112L125PG

if it lists one with a larger breaker count,gut the breakers,install the new
interior and add your breakers

The only panel I found with the same size box is a 100-Amp panel with 16 spaces/24 circuits. QO116M100P

Looking on the Schneider / Square D Website even though the boxes are the same size, the box numbers are different.
Swapping the guts may work, but it would probably involve modifying the mounting holes/slots.

Doug

 

[toplessHO]

If you're referring to the electrical box behind the cover?
The original panel is a 125-Amp panel with 12 spaces/12 circuits. QO112L125PG

The only panel I found with the same size box is a 100-Amp panel with 16 spaces/24 circuits. QO116M100P

Looking on the Schneider / Square D Website even though the boxes are the same size, the box numbers are different.
Swapping the guts may work, but it would probably involve modifying the mounting holes/slots.

Doug

Check on the guts swap if the box is same size the only difference may be the label.
There is a company thats doing panel upgrades and makes the guts and covers for
many obsolete panels. So its UL approved for them to swap guts and provide a new cover
with the old can. That saves a lot of time and expense. In this case you have the cover.
The guts most likely are all screws or slot on bottom screws up top.
I bet the bottom mount is same on yours vs the 16 circuit,just need to drill and tap a couple holes up higher.

 

[dave*99]

Older (25+) used different tandems. If you can find single pole (120V) tandems, you can shuffle the single pole breakers around and fit another two pole breaker in.

How? He has only 2 single pole breakers in the already full box.

 

[dwall174]

How?

I think he's referring to placing two single -space tandem breakers next to each other & tying the center two together to basically make a quad setup.

The problem with that, is my panel isn't designed for tandem single breakers.

 

[dave*99]

I think he's referring to placing two single -space tandem breakers next to each other & tying the center two together to basically make a quad setup.

The problem with that, is my panel isn't designed for tandem single breakers.

The problem with that is the two center breakers would feed a 240V circuit without common trip. No bueno.
They sell the setup you are referring to. But it’s not for 240 circuits.

 

[theoldwizard1]

How? He has only 2 single pole breakers in the already full box.

Unless my eyes are bad (and they are) there is an empty spot on the top right. Only 2 of the 3 single pole breakers are in use. One tandem would cover that.

I do know that some load centers restrict the number of tandems and their locations. Not sure if there is a restriction on the number of 2 pole breakers on that load center.

I also know just because Square D no longer manufacturers a tandem 2 pole, does NOT mean they are no longer available !

 

[theoldwizard1]

The problem with that, is my panel isn't designed for tandem single breakers.

Are you sure about that ?

I was told the same thing by Square D, but I found out that there was a discontinued tandem, that was still available. 4 of those NOS tandems saved me from replacing the load center or adding a sub

 

[dwall174]

there is an empty spot on the top right

No it's full like Dave mentioned.

 

[dave*99]

Unless my eyes are bad (and they are) there is an empty spot on the top right. Only 2 of the 3 single pole breakers are in use. One tandem would cover that.

The top right is a 2 pole.

 

[dwall174]

Check on the guts swap if the box is same size the only difference may be the label.

Ok you talked me into it!
I was able to find a box (no cover) with the 16-space guts! The box is the same width, but about 4" longer.

I bet the bottom mount is same on yours vs the 16 circuit, just need to drill and tap a couple holes up higher.

That's what I'm hoping on.
just ordered it today from ZORO! They usually ship pretty fast, so hopefully I get it next week.


Doug

 

[dcg9381]

NSI makes one that is half the cost of polaris

NSi Industries 1/0-14 AWG Insulated Tap Connector, Black IT-1/0 - The Home Depot

Made quick and easy in-line splice and reductions by selecting this NSi Industries AWG Insulated Tap Connector in Black.

www.homedepot.com

Thank you for this. I just bought 4 polaris. Now I'm done forever.

 

[toplessHO]

hope this works for ya

 

[dwall174]

hope this works for ya

Me too

If it don't work as I'm hoping I can always install the new box and get a new longer cover.

Doug

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Unless my eyes are bad (and they are) there is an empty spot on the top right. Only 2 of the 3 single pole breakers are in use. One tandem would cover that.

I do know that some load centers restrict the number of tandems and their locations. Not sure if there is a restriction on the number of 2 pole breakers on that load center.

I also know just because Square D no longer manufacturers a tandem 2 pole, does NOT mean they are no longer available !

youre looking at the wrong pic (the deadfront cover in #4). you need to look at the pic in #1. notice the ground wires go right over the spot where the deadfront has 2 twist out covers? theres no space there. no buss bars for another breaker.

 

[dwall174]

there's no space there. no buss bars for another breaker.

There is now!

hope this works for ya

Worked like I was hoping it would.

The new 40-amp breaker won't be here until the middle of the week, so that gives me a little time to run the new conduit & 8-ga. wire.

Doug

 

[grounded-b]

Was nice that you old cover had the extra twist-outs for your new 16 space guts !!

 

[toplessHO]

Was nice that you old cover had the extra twist-outs for your new 16 space guts !!

Why didnt you knock out all the blanks so you could put booboo blanks back in ?

 

[theoldwizard1]

just ordered it today from ZORO! They usually ship pretty fast, so hopefully I get it next week.

Curious. What was the price vs a whole new box ?

 

[dwall174]

Why didnt you knock out all the blanks so you could put booboo blanks back in ?

I could have knocked them all out
I seem to always remove the wrong round knockouts in electrical boxes.

Doug

 

[toplessHO]

I could have knocked them all out
I seem to always remove the wrong round knockouts in electrical boxes.

Doug

No you did good
I just say this because Ive seem so many make mistakes and cover tracks with booboo buttons or blanks

 

[dwall174]

Curious. What was the price vs a whole new box ?

I couldn't find a 16-space full box/cover anywhere! Zoro sells the boxes & covers separately, I paid $66.00 for the box & 16-space buss/guts.

If I wanted to replace the complete box I could have gotten a 24-space box with cover in a value package with a few breakers for $135 at Lowes.

Doug

 

[toplessHO]

and its SQ D !
and hats off for still having all 4 OEM cover screws