The Vintage New Britain and Associated Thread!

[mritchie77]

Estate sale find $2 yesterday. A similar obstruction wrench (SAE) from Snap On was marked $25 sitting right next to it.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Picked up another one of these odd 1/4" t handle sets

 

[Smokeshow69]

Picked up this fors patent cs41 (g) husky marked ratchet this weekend. IT’s cadmium plated which interests me. Anyone have the set this would go in? Even though I don’t need another rabbit hole now i suddenly need to complete the set this would have been in.

 

[d42jeep]

I found this complete New Britain double flare kit in a metal box at a tool sale this morning.
-Don

 

[JohnDeere]

I found this on Saturday!

 

[LNKMK8]

Picked up this None Better 1/2" Socket Set at a farm auction last month. I found it a little humorous that there were two guys there in the 70's (guessing) who were commenting on it. They had never heard of the brand. I was thinking they should be more aware of it then me

 

[PSCo1867]

Nutmaster 6-piece set. I was sure that I was missing a couple of sizes, but the catalog proved otherwise. There are only six in the set. Page is from Catalog 59M from 1958

 

[JohnDeere]

I question how well those would actually work.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I question how well those would actually work.

Well they worked well enough that snap on copied the design . Not great for high torque applications but they could be a life saver in certain scenarios

 

[Outlawmws]

I can attest that other than space required, they work very well indeed. I have the French Peugeot Surpans metric versions, adn have used them.

SO copied the concept for sockets, etc.

Nice find PSC!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Well they worked well enough that snap on copied the design

Not really. Only very indirectly. The Knudsen et al patent (1966) cited a bunch of clutch machinery designs. The only wrench patent they directly cited for their first 'Flank Drive' effort (1966) was Kavalar's (1964), which Kelsey-Hayes branded 'Loc-Rite'. So, if someone wants to say they copied, that's the one they claimed to use as a model. Kavalar cited a slew of prior art dedicated to the concept of wrenching on flats instead of corners, including Diebold (1954), an Austrian, which is the design NB (and NB-owned Blackhawk) licensed and branded 'Nutmaster', and also Petit, which Peugeot licensed and branded 'Surpans'. Diebold, like many intermediaries, cited Carpenter (1891), the grandaddy of them all. As a reminder for those who may have read it and forgot, and a notice for those who have not yet read it, I published a deep dive on this subject, including a timeline chart of all relevant patents from 1891 through the 1970s, that I thought would serve as a handy reference for these kinds of discussions. You can find it here.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Not really. Only very indirectly. The Knudsen et al patent (1966) cited a bunch of clutch machinery designs. The only wrench patent they directly cited for their first 'Flank Drive' effort (1966) was Kavalar's (1964), which Kelsey-Hayes branded 'Loc-Rite'. So, if someone wants to say they copied, that's the one they claimed to use as a model. Kavalar cited a slew of prior art dedicated to the concept of wrenching on flats instead of corners, including Diebold (1954), an Austrian, which is the design NB (and NB-owned Blackhawk) licensed and branded 'Nutmaster', and also Petit, which Peugeot licensed and branded 'Surpans'. Diebold, like many intermediaries, cited Carpenter (1891), the grandaddy of them all. As a reminder for those who may have read it and forgot, and a notice for those who have not yet read it, I published a deep dive on this subject, including a timeline chart of all relevant patents from 1891 through the 1970s, that I thought would serve as a handy reference for these kinds of discussions. You can find it here.

Shoot I forgot about your deep dive on this. I stand corrected on my snap on copy statement.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No worries. I forget stuff all the time. Snap-on was the first to apply it to socketry.

 

[d42jeep]

I found this New Britain ratchet at a moving sale yesterday. Even after evaporust and a lot of external cleaning and lubrication it wouldn’t function properly. I finally decided to take it apart. I found a ball bearing down a blind hole that didn’t really make sense to me. It seemed like the bearing should press on the back of the pawl so I inserted a small spring behind the ball and reassembled it, with some difficulty. It is now working properly and I sent pictures of the ratchet to DATAMP which didn’t have any.
-Don

 

[Etchase]

The patent has a ball bearing on the end of a spring IIRC, but I’ve never found one in a ratchet.

 

[Etchase]

Some Mustang. No effort wasted on finish with the Mustang brand. .

 

[Outlawmws]

That is some old Mustang! My few examples are nicely chromed.

 

[Etchase]

That is some old Mustang! My few examples are nicely chromed.

I haven’t figured out how old, but the drive side isn’t chamfered and there is not a divot for the ball detent.

 

[Steven 33]

never seen one like this before anyone know anything about it?

 

[Smokeshow69]

never seen one like this before anyone know anything about it?

It’s a Fors patent NB ratchet. There has been some discussion on them on this thread. I recently picked up its husky badged brother that is cadmium plated. The craftsman badged version sells for thousands

 

[Steven 33]

It’s a Fors patent NB ratchet. There has been some discussion on them on this thread. I recently picked up its husky badged brother that is cadmium plated. The craftsman badged version sells for thousands

you might have to zoom on its not the best picture but it is a husky the markings are on the indent part on the handle but ive never seen it have the raised part there with the markings on it

 

[Steven 33]

It’s a Fors patent NB ratchet. There has been some discussion on them on this thread. I recently picked up its husky badged brother that is cadmium plated. The craftsman badged version sells for thousands

is also a cs41 ive had a bunch but never like this one

 

[Smokeshow69]

you might have to zoom on its not the best picture but it is a husky the markings are on the indent part on the handle but ive never seen it have the raised part there with the markings on it

I think you might get more traction if you flip the picture to right side up and also retake the picture. It’s a little blurry and I have learned over the years that if I want to drive interest to my item I have to post clear pictures so it draws other’s attention

 

[Steven 33]

was trying to figure it out enough to give the word to buy it or not so for now it was just a screenshot

 

[Steven 33]

still c

I think you might get more traction if you flip the picture to right side up and also retake the picture. It’s a little blurry and I have learned over the years that if I want to drive interest to my item I have to post clear pictures so it draws other’s attention

stillnhavent found another

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was stoked to turn this over and see the New Britain logo staring back at me at the flea this morning. You guys have seen my hammer drawer. There aren't many brands I don't have. This is the first NB hammer I have ever seen in the wild. H-8-1 is size of the head in ounces (8). Weighs 11.7 ozs. with handle. Prominent concentric circles from the machining is very unusual in my experience.

 

[Outlawmws]

Nice find Lugz! I have only one NB BP. Not common at all.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks. Pretty sure the handle is original.

 

[Outlawmws]

I'd agree

 

[lardy1]

I've been piecing this 70's era (as near as I can tell) Husky set for awhile. I think I have them all now. These will be used. I like old New Britain wrenches. They feel good in my hand.

 

[MShaw]

They were making those wrenches when I worked there in the early 70s

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Some offset screwdrivers

 

[RTM]

Here is something a Little Different. This is a CB-45 Sparta, 45 tooth, made in USA, with Patent 2981389, assigned to New Britain. It's a little different in that UNAIU posted a Husky CB-45 with patent number way back in post #644. Other than the name, and his post doesn't show the rust where mine is all rusty near the anvil. It's bit rough in one direction, and switches hard, but nothing that a good clean and lube shouldn't fix. Didn't recognize the Sparta name right off, but it had a good solid feel to it. Will add it to the clean up pile.

With the patent issued in 1961, in theory this is 1978 or older. HS days. Looks like I should add it to one of the Sparta Thread too.

 

[d42jeep]

I found this Sparta 3/8” drive ratchet yesterday that is a match for the one in my Sparta set.
-Don

Here are mine posted upthread. They seem like nice ratchets.
-Don

 

[Real1]

Just to weigh in on what's probably been said....

When I was living on the western slope of CO, there was a big NAPA store there in Montrose I think it was. I was working at the time for a gold mill in Silverton. Yes, driving the infamous Red Mountain Pass all yr around, twice a day.....I lived in Ridgeway. A guy I worked with came from the other mill up there and was telling me that NB tools were the only ones that held up in the bad conditions of a mill. I found them at that NAPA in Montrose and started buying them for myself. Sparta, as it was explained to me by the NAPA people was the exact same tool, but not polished. I bought some bigger stuff in Sparta as I was restoring military vehicles as a hobby.

This was all in the late '70s. Later on, when I went back to NAPA to expand on my sets, they were different. I don't like mixing sets....some folks don't care. I'm trying to finish my 1/2" drive NB 12pt set. Looking for individual NB sockets is a real pain. I find them, but they're 6pt or older than my '70s set, etc.

I have maybe three off-set, smaller box-end NB SAE wrenches. I wish I had bought more of them at the same time. Went back some yrs later and finished the set @NAPA but they say NAPA and don't look like the NB ones. Missing a 1/2" drive NB 12pt 1&3/16" socket. I found them in 3/4" drive......so it goes.....lol.

Kevin

 

[Real1]

Here are mine posted upthread. They seem like nice ratchets.
-Don

I have the same looking tools in NB 1/2" drive. Sparta is not suppoesed to be polished, I was told by NAPA. These looked polished just as the NB's were. I don't really see the difference?

Kevin

 

[d42jeep]

Other than the brand markings, I don’t think that there is any significant difference.
-Don

 

[Real1]

I found this complete New Britain double flare kit in a metal box at a tool sale this morning.
-Don

I have the same set in a red plastic box with a live hinge. Same instructions(well, some rearranged verbiage, however most sentences are the same), but with a "Blue-Point" label over the bottom. Then I have another set, same box, but metric double flare. Looks newer; steel is different, and the instructions are more condensed. Has "Blue-Point" engraved on the flaring bar.

The NB part of your set is clearly a blue character stamp. Makes me wonder 'who' really made these?

Kevin

 

[Real1]

Picked up this None Better 1/2" Socket Set at a farm auction last month. I found it a little humorous that there were two guys there in the 70's (guessing) who were commenting on it. They had never heard of the brand. I was thinking they should be more aware of it then me

Honestly, and I've used tools professionally all my life, but rural.....I never heard of 'None Better' until a few months ago when I read the history of NB.

I'd LOVE to have a complete 'None Better' socket set and ratchet. The name alone is the draw for me.....plus they're great tools I'm told! Really jealous...your set is 12pt all the way through....what a find!!

Kevin

 

[SynViks]

Anyone know if the pawl on a Kilness 3/8 and 1/2 ratchets are the same size? Not talking tooth count (I know there are 60 and 45 tooth variations), but rather the physical dimensions. Are they interchangeable?