Who Made the First 3/4" Ratchet?

[AntiqueBen]

I collect a lot of ratchets, but I'm always fascinated with large 3/4" ratchets. So I'm wandering, who made it first? I know manufacturers like Mossberg & Lowell made really big ratchets, but who made the first in the era of modern day broached sockets? I know SK made theirs in the early 40's. I know SK made Craftsman's first version of a 3/4" ratchet as well. But who was first? I recently picked up this nice Cornwell example. Oddly enough it's gearless. It's marked "Patent Applied For" on the handle. According to AA, this one was made in the 30's. Was Cornwell the first? Are their any examples of a 3/4" ratchets from the 20's? It seems as though 3/4" ratchets doesn't get as much attention, so let's see what's out there.
Please post pics & share your knowledge

 

[Cruzan80]

Not sure, but for "large ratchets" I have a Mossberg 357 with a 1" drive opening. IIRC, was designed for 7/8 pressed steel sockets. Pretty sure it was from the teens/20's.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Now that I think about it Lowell Wrench Company made really big ratchets as well. I guess I'm thinking about who made the first 3/4" ratchets in the era of modern sockets?

 

[Dave455]

Probably Accles and Pollock in the U.K.

Their very first socket sets included 3/4“ drive ratchets as far back I believe as the 1880’s, albeit hex drive not square drive.

Their sockets were not broached, so not totally what you were after, but they were such pioneering tools they’re worth a mention!


As for who was the first with broached sockets, I can’t be sure.

I know Blackhawk first produced 3/4 drive tools in the 1920’s, but I believe several manufacturers may have introduced 3/4 drive at a similar time.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Some snapon 72n ratchet heads. Started around 1930, preceded the L72n (locking)

 

[Oldtuleguy]

A few more early ones, mtf, snapon , bonney, duro, blackhawk , ranging from mid twentys to 30s

 

[AntiqueBen]

That's a hell of a collection Oldtuleguy!! That Hercules looks like a beast. Those are all great examples. They don't make'm like that anymore. Are you familiar with Cornwell's "gearless" mechanism? Not sure exactly how that works. It would be interesting to see the mechanism.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Probably some sort of roller cam deal. .I think it's pressed together and I have not been able to find the patent.

 

[AntiqueBen]

A few more early ones, mtf, snapon , bonney, duro, blackhawk , ranging from mid twentys to 30s

I've been doing more research on who made the first 3/4" ratchet & it appears the Blackhawk model 916 like yours was probably the first. It was offered in 1924-25. There's a few others that came along in the late 20's & early 30's, but Blackhawk looks to be the earliest. I'm on the hunt now to find a nice Blackhawk 916 example.

 

[four.cycle]

^ Drive sizes as we know them today were much different early on.
Only recently I spotted a 15/16" HEX DRIVE ratchet on ebay.
Walden made a ONE INCH hex drive set up in the late 1920s.

If you're talking about 3/4" conventional SQUARE DRIVE, I'd think probably either Blackhawk or maybe Rueb's S-K model. (pat 1281526)

 

[AntiqueBen]

^ Drive sizes as we know them today were much different early on.
Only recently I spotted a 15/16" HEX DRIVE ratchet on ebay.
Walden made a ONE INCH hex drive set up in the late 1920s.

If you're talking about 3/4" conventional SQUARE DRIVE, I'd think probably either Blackhawk or maybe Rueb's S-K model. (pat 1281526)

Yes, I saw Walden's big 1" hex drive. I never heard of "Rueb's S-K? Would be interested to see that. I'm not finding the patent number you referenced?

 

[AntiqueBen]

^ Drive sizes as we know them today were much different early on.
Only recently I spotted a 15/16" HEX DRIVE ratchet on ebay.
Walden made a ONE INCH hex drive set up in the late 1920s.

If you're talking about 3/4" conventional SQUARE DRIVE, I'd think probably either Blackhawk or maybe Rueb's S-K model. (pat 1281526)

I found it. You mean pat. 1,981,526
This came out around 1933-34.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I see that Craftsman switched from the S-K version 3/4" ratchet in the late 40's to early 50's & brought it in house & started manufacturing their own. Craftsman's version seemed to be a downgrade in a sense compared to the S-K version. They went from a 70 fine tooth ratchet down to a 22 tooth coarse action ratchet. Don't get me wrong, the 22 tooth is an awesome ratchet. It's extremely heavy, sturdy & certainly does the job. But it takes more than 3 full turns to equal 1 turn on the S-K. I wonder if this affected sales after people were used to the quality of the S-K? Maybe they were just trying to keep costs down. Plus I'm sure their main focus was not on the 3/4" market. Although the Craftsman version did have an oil port. It just seems like Craftsman would have tried to equal the quality of the S-K, at least in the tooth count.

 

[Cruzan80]

Different manufacturers. The pear-head was Moore Drop Forge, who was making all of their sockets/wrenches/etc by that point. Earlier production had New Britain making sockets (with SK supplying 3/4), various makers of wrenches, etc. So I think it was a consolidation move, whereas SK could say "We have this in-house design, do you want us to private label it for you" instead of a "new" design.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Different manufacturers. The pear-head was Moore Drop Forge, who was making all of their sockets/wrenches/etc by that point. Earlier production had New Britain making sockets (with SK supplying 3/4), various makers of wrenches, etc. So I think it was a consolidation move, whereas SK could say "We have this in-house design, do you want us to private label it for you" instead of a "new" design.

Very true. Wonder if it was Craftsman or Moore that decided to go simple on the tooth count? At the end of the day I'm sure Craftsman called the shots. Doesn't make sense to me that they wouldn't have tried to stay competitive with the S-K version.

 

[four.cycle]

^ That was MDF's ratchet design at that time. Only later did they change the internal mechanisms.

@AntiqueBen -
click the little box below here - DOWNLOAD the notepad *.txt file I have attached here.
it is the last version of Mr. Gary Lauver's list of Craftsman production codes and their makers. You will find it to be of great help.
the last update was in 2017, but for your purposes I do not believe that will be relevant. BK

 

[Cruzan80]

They could "call the shots" as much as they wanted, but if Moore didn't have a design available, and CM couldn't give them one to copy, they are still stuck. Overall, I don't miss tooth count nearly as much in 3/4 drive, as everything (even now) seems to have a ton of room around it. Looking around, I think it is more that SK was the oddity back then for a fine-toothed 3/4.

 

[AntiqueBen]

^ That was MDF's ratchet design at that time. Only later did they change the internal mechanisms.

@AntiqueBen -
click the little box below here - DOWNLOAD the notepad *.txt file I have attached here.
it is the last version of Mr. Gary Lauver's list of Craftsman production codes and their makers. You will find it to be of great help.
the last update was in 2017, but for your purposes I do not believe that will be relevant. BK

Nice. Thanks for that. Good reference information. I saw the S-K 3/4" ratchet version still being offered in the 1949 Sears catalog. In the 1952 catalog Craftsman had their own version. I can't find a '50 or '51 Sears catalog, so I'm guessing in '50 or '51 they switched from the S-K version to theirs. I know you can't always go by the catalogs, but they're fun to look at.

 

[AntiqueBen]

They could "call the shots" as much as they wanted, but if Moore didn't have a design available, and CM couldn't give them one to copy, they are still stuck. Overall, I don't miss tooth count nearly as much in 3/4 drive, as everything (even now) seems to have a ton of room around it. Looking around, I think it is more that SK was the oddity back then for a fine-toothed 3/4.

I agree. The S-K 3/4" ratchet was a "stand alone" when it came out. I guess that's why Craftsman left New Britain hanging.

 

[four.cycle]

Between Rose's and ITCL you should be able to find every issue of Craftsman tool catalogs ever published.

search "Craftsman" - not "Sears"

Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

archive.org

Blackburn Tools - Rose Tools scanned catalog archives

 

[AntiqueBen]

Between Rose's and ITCL you should be able to find every issue of Craftsman tool catalogs ever published.

search "Craftsman" - not "Sears"

Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

archive.org

Blackburn Tools - Rose Tools scanned catalog archives

I've looked at Rose's, ITCL & Vintage Machinery & the only 1950 or 1951 catalog I can find is only for power tools or wood planes. I searched using both Craftsman & Sears names. Of course the year of a tool switch over I'm looking for eludes me.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Now that I think about, before the S-K 3/4" ratchet came out (1934ish), was their a ratchet of any type or size that had a 70 or higher tooth count?

 

[shanny19]

But it takes more than 3 full turns to equal 1 turn on the S-K. I wonder if this affected sales

Wait, what??? Tooth count doesn’t affect the number of revolutions needed to turn a fastener, the thread arrangement on the fastener does.

 

[four.cycle]

@AntiqueBen - if you're trying to establish the date of a tool's manufacture, or some production change on Craftsman, you may well be searching for the impossible, because of the overlaps: Sears was buying "Craftsman" brand tools (sockets, ratchets, and drive accessories) from both Moore Drop Forging and New Britain Machine at the same time. (As well as a plethora of other manufacturers, but those are the two primary makers relevant in this context.)

One of the first questions I asked on this forum was "when?" concerning a small pair of Craftsman-branded (Wilde) ignition pliers. Best you can get is a rough guess on some stuff - just a "date range".

BK

 

[four.cycle]

^ and I'm surprised there's no CM catalogs for 50-51 ... I thought we had that completely covered... I know I sent three or four to ITCL.

I'll put it on my radar screen - normally I ignore all Craftsman.

 

[AntiqueBen]

^ and I'm surprised there's no CM catalogs for 50-51 ... I thought we had that completely covered... I know I sent three or four to ITCL.

I'll put it on my radar screen - normally I ignore all Craftsman.

I appreciate you looking into the catalogs. I learned not to fully trust the catalogs when a few years ago I saw the option for a 3/4" Craftsman "Flying V" ratchet in the catalog. I forget which year it was, but that would be a true "unicorn " if one of those were ever found. Not sure why they would put something in their catalog that they never produced? Or they must have been close to it for it to make it to the catalog.

 

[Cruzan80]

Never seen one of those specifically called out in the catalog. Seen a "Flying V" ratchet pic with listings for multiple sizes underneath (for space savings, they didn't picture the separate 3/4 even though it was listed), but never an advertised 3/4 on its own listing with that pic. Catalogs in general are not supposed to be a 1-to-1 representation of what actually existed, but rather an approximation based off of other design sketches.

Edit: VM.org is down, can't see if they have a 50-51 listed.

 

[Cruzan80]

I don't have a 50 or 51 CM Hand tools listed, but I did find the following.

1950 Spring/Summer Catalog has Moore Drop Forge pearheads EXCEPT FOR the SK 3/4.
1950 Fall/Winter is unchanged.
1950 Christmas Book is unlisted (only has a 1/2" dr set)
1951 Spring/Summer has a different layout, but same images (blurry spot on TSM on 1/2" ratchet looks like they were moving stock images around)
1951 Fall/Winter is the first appearance of the Moore Drop Forge 3/4 ratchet.

In 1951 (Spring) was also when they started to advertise the thinner/stronger sockets in general.

As I alluded to earlier, I think the main reason that Sears left New Britain was that Moore Drop forge could be a single outlet producing most of their hand tool line. Both ratchets/sockets as well as wrenches, and (IIRC) pliers/screwdrivers/etc (Wasn't Western Forge a spinoff during the Danaher era, but originally under MDF?)

 

[AntiqueBen]

Here's a few pics from the 1965 CM catalog. Next to the flying v (butterfly) ratchet they give the size options. Listed there is a 3/4" ratchet that is 18 1/4" long. Down further in the catalog is the 3/4" set with a ratchet that is 18" long. The ratchet has a different part number than the set. I know it could be different part numbers because one is just a ratchet & the other is a set. But they do list a 3/4" option under the flying v ratchet info & with a different length. I know these catalogs can be very deceptive at times, but it makes you wonder if they ever entertained the idea of making this ratchet at some point. I attached another pic of a 3/4" ratchet from the catalog that looks like the flying v ratchet just without the v selector.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I don't have a 50 or 51 CM Hand tools listed, but I did find the following.

1950 Spring/Summer Catalog has Moore Drop Forge pearheads EXCEPT FOR the SK 3/4.
1950 Fall/Winter is unchanged.
1950 Christmas Book is unlisted (only has a 1/2" dr set)
1951 Spring/Summer has a different layout, but same images (blurry spot on TSM on 1/2" ratchet looks like they were moving stock images around)
1951 Fall/Winter is the first appearance of the Moore Drop Forge 3/4 ratchet.

In 1951 (Spring) was also when they started to advertise the thinner/stronger sockets in general.

As I alluded to earlier, I think the main reason that Sears left New Britain was that Moore Drop forge could be a single outlet producing most of their hand tool line. Both ratchets/sockets as well as wrenches, and (IIRC) pliers/screwdrivers/etc (Wasn't Western Forge a spinoff during the Danaher era, but originally under MDF?)

Good work. Thanks for info. I figured it was '50 or '51 when the change happened. Looks like it was '51 (as far as the catalog goes).

 

[Cruzan80]

Yes, that is what I was saying. A lack of advertising space (for your top example), or a marketing person who didn't know better (for the second) could easily be the cause, instead of thinking they were going to make a 3/4 Flying V. Especially since the 3/4 never left the box-head design for the pear-head in the first place (which allowed the 1/4-1/2 to be a simple selector swap out).

Edit: The 1960 and 64 catalogs with a Flying V illustration lists the same model as all other years (94480) which showed the traditional design and all of the 3/4 ratchets are 18.25" (someone felt like rounding for the set).

 

[four.cycle]

^ The artists get paid to compose pretty pictures for catalogs. They don't get paid to know one ratchet from another.
Ergo: "artists' rendition".
Somewhere on this site is a lengthy discussion about the inaccuracies found in tool catalog and advertising illustrations - it's especially bad on boxes, for reasons I don't understand.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Yes, that is what I was saying. A lack of advertising space (for your top example), or a marketing person who didn't know better (for the second) could easily be the cause, instead of thinking they were going to make a 3/4 Flying V. Especially since the 3/4 never left the box-head design for the pear-head in the first place (which allowed the 1/4-1/2 to be a simple selector swap out).

Edit: The 1960 and 64 catalogs with a Flying V illustration lists the same model as all other years (94480) which showed the traditional design and all of the 3/4 ratchets are 18.25" (someone felt like rounding for the set).

I agree these mistakes would come from those who worked on the catalog. This totally makes the most sense. Typing errors is one thing but producing pictures of something that doesn't exist seems like a lot of time spent on an error. Like the rat in the pic below. But like fourcycle said, I guess the artists were drawing up what they wanted to. Only now does it make it confusing when doing research on specific models, when back then it wasn't such a big deal.

 

[four.cycle]

It is far more common an annoyance among vintage tool collectors than you can imagine, sir.

 

[four.cycle]

I have NO idea where that discussion is, Ben. It was an off-topic side discussion in the middle of a thread about something entirely different.

 

[AntiqueBen]

It is far more common an annoyance among vintage tool collectors than you can imagine, sir.

I bet. And the CM tool catalogs I'm sure was a very large, time consuming project covering thousands of tool items. Then all these years later we are scrutinizing how one item was represented in a drawing

 

[Cruzan80]

Not sure which catalog the pic is from, Ben. But I would look to see if the shading on the head matches the 1/2" ratchet pic, and if they just enlarged it and put it in the typeset for the 3/4, for whatever reason.

The same way if you look at the 50 and 51 catalog pics I posted, the "TSM" lettering part of the ratchet shows identical smudging in multiple years would indicate they moved around existing drawings into new layouts.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I have NO idea where that discussion is, Ben. It was an off-topic side discussion in the middle of a thread about something entirely different.

Yes, it went off into the weeds a little

 

[AntiqueBen]

Not sure which catalog the pic is from, Ben. But I would look to see if the shading on the head matches the 1/2" ratchet pic, and if they just enlarged it and put it in the typeset for the 3/4, for whatever reason.

The same way if you look at the 50 and 51 catalog pics I posted, the "TSM" lettering part of the ratchet shows identical smudging in multiple years would indicate they moved around existing drawings into new layouts.

Your right. I'm sure they used a lot of the catalog over & over again making edits as they went along.

 

[four.cycle]

^ it's called "copy and paste". when you're laying out ad copy for print media you use the material you have available.
I used to do all the ad layouts for the stores in our ads - you use stock images from any place you can find them.

done in a completely different way now... they use computers.

I did it with X-acto knives and rubber cement and rub-on-transfer lettering. ("Pres-Type")