Above 1200 Sq/FT Freshy Fresh - Mountain High Workshop and Storage: 48x30

[badonk]

I'm assuming you've all been down this path in some way, shape or form. You have what you have and work within it. You do the best with what you have. Many years ago I started restoring my 1972 911 in a small 2 car garage (~ 20x20). Home brew rotisserie and all.



Then one day my better side had enough running the gauntlet through the garage, tools, etc just to take out the trash. Plus I bought more cars. So we needed something bigger. 16x45 storage unit.



Then we need more of course because projects continue and...



Well that's not enough...



And...



And the projects and cars continue. Of course we fill the space we have?

 

[badonk]

So that sets up the next project. I'm building a new house in the mountains and planning a detached 47x23 shop that has space to store cars and work on them. There will also be a separate normal 2 car garage for daily duty.

I am looking for advice and gotchas before I start. We haven't broken ground yet but are working with an architect and builder.

Here are the current ideas of layout, plans, etc.

I want to have one side dedicated to storage. Right now I like a double wide 4 post lift from Backyard Buddies - sold through Advantage lifts. I realize I'll have to pull two cars out to get to a car on the upper level. Is there a better/easier way to use my space here? This will handle 4 cars.

I only need a compressor to run a blast cabinet. Most power tools today don't really need a compressor. I have a nice 3-phase 208v IR compressor I'd like to use here, but I'll probably have to swap the motor for a 1-phase here (not industrial so I probably will have 240v only).

I have some bulky things like wheels/tires, engines, trans that need space for storage, thus one back wall idea. Then I have that big open work space that I need to more formally develop.

What's missing?

 

[GlennSullivan]

Coming from someone who built a similar garage, you might consider going deeper. I ended going 30’ deep which provides space for tool cabinet wall, working space between front of the cabinet and the vehicle and working space around the vehicle The depth is not as important with shorter vehicles, but in addition to our cars we also have 3 full size SUVs we maintain that would be tight with 23’ depth.

Pic below is 30’ deep, as you can see with tool boxes and benches in front, it does not leave a whole lot of room to work around vehicles.

 

[MacTexas]

I vote for going deeper.

 

[jcarapet]

Echo the same. Bigger the better, obviously within lot and cost constraints. Sounds like you have already run into space constraints twice before. 40% bigger is nice, but will get eaten up quickly.

One more idea. Compressor and potentially bonus space on the outside of the envelope. Get more space inside and noise on the outside.

 

[Oldsnapper]

As well go deeper. I have an extended cab pickup with 6.5 ft box and it is almost 22 ft long. Crew cab and/or long box will need more space

 

[badonk]

Thx for the advice. Meeting with my architect tomorrow to add on 6 feet or so.

 

[robb1887]

Looks like you get into some pretty good amount of work. I'm finding that my current "make it work" with an attached 2 car and one car stored inside is that its CONSTANTLY dirty due to wok in the "workshop" side of the garage. I'm planning a 28x40 and plan to have a 4 post 2-car storage bay that is enclosed to keep the workshop mess off the stored cars.

 

[Xti04]

I went with a 30x 50 and pulling vehicles out to get a different one out gets old fast. If I pull my truck out and park the mini inside the truck is getting driven for the next week. And vice versa. It is nice to be able to park 3 wide inside the garage, but a few feet wider would have made quite a difference for me. My attached garage was 22x23 and it wasn't long enough to get my truck inside. If the property supports it and your wife is cool with it add 10 ft in each h direction!

 

[Metal-Marc]

Ur quattro

 

[badonk]

Ok thanks to you all, it is now ~ 48x30. Plenty of working space and I should be able to stack 4 cars on the non-working side. I have a partial racetrack, err um driveway now but won't break ground on the house/shop until the spring. These babies are ready for a new home! For the urq lovers, some new brakes on too.

 

[badonk]

FWIW, if anyone has a 3 phase compressor and only has single phase available, I think I have that sorted with a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD). Let me know if you need any help. Working great now on a pair of 30 amp single phase circuits.

 

[Swanny1953]

I have the double stack BendPak lift and am very happy with it. Yes, you have to move 2 cars to get to anything on the top. That's a first world problem in my book. BendPak does offer a double or even triple wide parking lift where the top platforms are independently supported by cables and therefore you only have to move one car to get one of the stored vehicles out. Pretty elegant in design, but many more moving parts and a double the cost of the double lift. Here's a link - https://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/parking-lifts/pl-12000dps/
The triple wide lift is really expensive - you can see it if you go to the parking lifts section of the website above.

 

[VolksWomble]

@Swanny1953 I believe Tyler Hoover of Hoovies Garage (YouTube) Fame has the 3 car independent version of the Bendpak lift

 

[dbldmnd]

Hey Neighbor,
The pictures of Byers Peak caught my eye. We met last year at georgetown lake at the ice driving event. I was driving my white 4ktq. I also have a green 84 urquattro.

A couple things I noticed, if possible put in a 12' door. It makes it much easier to pull in trucks or to back in a trailer if needed. Your design looks pretty set, just keep in mind the snow accumulation off the roof on the side walls in front of the garage doors. You will need to keep up with the snow removal. Also think about a place to keep your snow removal tool warm. I have a bobcat that now has a dedicated spot in the garage most of the time.

It looks like a great build. When you are in the mountains, you are welcome to stop by my place and check out my garage/shop. Hit me up with a DM and I can pass along my cell.

 

[badonk]

Oh awesome...would love to check things out when we both have time. Definitely thinking of snow removal and have toyed with the idea of having a skid steer as well. The garage floor will be heated and I was contemplating heating a few outside driveway and walkway spaces. These doors face south so things should melt nicely. The main 2 car garage doors face north though which will be a problem with snow/ice buildup.

 

[csp]

FWIW, if anyone has a 3 phase compressor and only has single phase available, I think I have that sorted with a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD). Let me know if you need any help. Working great now on a pair of 30 amp single phase circuits.

Please do share. Lots of people say it shouldn't be done with the startup loads that a compressor can see, but there are too many people who have successfully done it for me to believe that anymore. Between having a Quincy compressor which doesn't start to compress until the oil pressure in the pump is ~20psi and soft start with a VFD it definitely can be done.

The advice for a 12' door is accurate. I have to be really careful backing trailers in through 10' wide doors. There's been a time or two that I'm not backing straight in and the visibility isn't there to see both sides of the door opening. It can be a pain.

 

[badonk]

Re: the VFD, there are lots of cheap ones out there. I went with a Vevor unit (link below) that has more capacity than I need just because these things do get worked when they are in use (fans run, etc). I am running a 5HP 3 phase compressor (link below). Note that the VFD will become the switching unit for the compressor motor.

The 220v single phase input wiring is pretty simple. As stated above, you have to run the 3-phase power from the VFD directly to the motor so you will be bypassing the pressure switch controls, safety controls, etc etc on your compressor. I got that working first and could use the run/stop buttons on the VFD to cycle the compressor. Then you connect the control wire circuit on the compressor to a digital switch terminal on the VFD. When you hit the lower pressure limit the VFD will cycle the compressor on, the upper pressure limit will shut it off. This is the simplest part of the setup IMO.

The slightly more complicated stuff is understanding the manual, the menu system and all the settings available. I will be at my shop tomorrow where I can get my reference sheet and post the ones I changed for anyone interested.

There are lots of cool features. One I like is that you can have it slowly ramp up the speed over a user defined period of time, same for the decel. I'm no expert but I *think* this reduces the amount of load on startup. Hopefully this helps.

Ingersoll Rand 2340L5-V Two Stage Cast Iron Air Compressor

ingersollrandcompressedair.com

VEVOR VFD 7.5KW, 34A, 10HP Variable Frequency Drive for 3-Phase Motor Speed Control | VEVOR US

Discover VEVOR VFD 7.5KW, 34A, 10HP Variable Frequency Drive for 3-Phase Motor Speed Control, 7.5KW, 10HP Variable Frequency Drive and User-Friendly Operation at lowest price, 2days delivery, 30days returns.

www.vevor.com

 

[badonk]

A few pics of my VFD setup below including the wires from the compressor switches. I used 14-gauge wires from the VFD to the motor. The factory compressor motor wires were 14 gauge or possibly smaller.

For the programmable settings, I only changed ones on pages 11-14 in the manual, but there are tons more you can customize if you know what you are doing (over 50 pages of programmable settings).

Basic settings
P01.02: 2 <--this is what lets the compressor limit switches turn on the VFD power, etc.
P01.08: 60 <--the next three just set the frequency (Hz) to 60, default was 50
P01.10: 60
P01.12: 60
P01.17: 50 <--sets the acceleration time to ~5 seconds
P01.18: 50 <--same for decel time

Motor settings - many of these you can read off the stamped plate on your compressor motor)
P02.01: 4.8 <--motor power in kW
P02.02: 200 <--motor voltage
P02.03: 17.5 <--motor current (amps)
P02.04: 60
P02.05: 3500 <--motor rated rpm

 

[67CarGuy]

Keep the posts coming! I'm envious of your driveway, and intrigued by the VFD / compressor work... Looking forward to hearing more about the cars, too!!

 

[badonk]

Hah, not much going on with the cars but as with most of you, there's always 'something' going on. I got a new 3D printer a few months ago and have put it to work in the garage.

First, the factory battery on my GS1250 was getting old and I wanted to make use of a LiFeP04 battery that I took out of my '72 911 (which needed a larger battery for reasons). The problem - this LifePo was slightly wider (2-3mm?) and the cover wouldn't fit. I thought about grinding away at the cover, etc. But I have a 3d printer! So I modeled it up in onshape, making it slightly thinner and standing out a little to make room for the battery. ABS print and presto chango...






Then I tried to create a little wall art with the 3d printer. I found these prints online. Super glue the printed pieces to some 3/16" MDF. The upper one is 42" wide, the lower is 32". I'm pretty happy with how it came out. This is in the old shop for now but I think this idea could carry through to the new one.

 

[badonk]

Storage lift options and questions...

In my current shop I have a super budget friendly 4 post lift. It does the job but I want to move up a tier quality wise for my next storage lifts. I don't intend to do work on the storage lift. I'll have a separate 2 post lift for that.

I have a friend that uses these backyard buddy double wide lifts. They are more compact than using 2 separate 4 post lifts, they will fit just about anything, and they look really well made. He had the deck/platform installed so there is basically a solid surface that can be walked on. This is where I have been leaning even if I'll have to move the two lower cars out to get to a car on the upper level.

Backyard Buddy Side by Side | B-SXS-10000 | 2 Vehicle Lift

Backyard Buddy has a wide variety of lifts, but none as unique as the B-SXS-10000 which can hold two vehicles. This 4-post lift is only available through Backyard Buddy and is a fantastic option for doubling your two-car garage car space instantly!

www.advantagelifts.com

But I was cross shopping, looking at other options, and came across this from BendPak. Seems pretty elegant although the I can't find anything other than sales info on it. It is more compact for sure and therefore more limited - shorter track length and I'd guess that the two posts make getting in/out of the driver door more difficult. What do you think?

BendPak PL-6000DC Two-Post Parking Lift

PL-6000DC two-post parking lift has a 6,000-pound capacity and designed to be ganged together with shared columns to fit more units into a smaller space.

www.bendpak.com

 

[Swanny1953]

I have the Bendpak HD-9SWX and am really happy with it. Yes, you have to move two cars to get to one on the top, but that's a first world problem if you have enough vehicles to demand this solution. Pics of it my build thread in my sig.

 

[csp]

Thanks for the VFD details.

 

[badonk]

I have the Bendpak HD-9SWX and am really happy with it. Yes, you have to move two cars to get to one on the top, but that's a first world problem if you have enough vehicles to demand this solution. Pics of it my build thread in my sig.

Thanks for the advice - going to follow it. Another benefit of the double wide 4-poster is a wide open, clear floor when the platform is up. That provides a lot more flexibility when parking things underneath.

 

[badonk]

Dealership signs are cool but I'm not spending thousands for one. So more 3d printer fun - 3/4 spool of red PETG and I have the following. Maybe I can get creative with some LEDs when I get around to hanging it.

 

[Old Man Roger]

Don’t think I would behave on that driveway.lol

Now that I think about it, all you need is another driveway with a slightly banked 180 close to the road, and you’ll have your track.

 

[GlennSullivan]

That is pretty neat. What make / model 3d printer do you have?

 

[badonk]

Bambu labs p1s. I used to have a creality ender but got tired of tinkering with it to get great prints. The p1s works great out of the box and is wicked fast.

 

[badonk]

Winter has set in and I'm working on permitting, etc. Soils testing underway for well, septic and foundations planning and they sent this little rig out. Cool! Some days there are views, some days the clouds and snow win. Interesting stuff, kind of. Camera has caught what appears to be a pretty healthy coyote in the area. Good to know since I have 3 dogs.

 

[badonk]

I'm starting to think more about the workshop layout. What goes here, what goes there. Where I need cabinets and racks for storage, and what I will use for working spaces. Some of the cabinet pieces I marked off are based on a Newage cabinet kit. The WB+ is workbench with some sort of storage underneath. It could be benches over cabinets or benches over more open storage. I'm also not moving all of my tools - I plan to keep the existing workshop with most of the tools in it. So I will need a bunch of new tools - yay! I'm considering a sonic package to just get most it taken care of.

In the past I've used Excel to mark out 1ftx1ft squares to help with this sort of thing. I may try to mock this up in a 3d tool like onshape but right now that takes too much energy. Here is where I am now. I'm not committed to anything so I appreciate any feedback.

 

[Old Man Roger]

Winter has set in and I'm working on permitting, etc. Soils testing underway for well, septic and foundations planning and they sent this little rig out. Cool! Some days there are views, some days the clouds and snow win. Interesting stuff, kind of. Camera has caught what appears to be a pretty healthy coyote in the area. Good to know since I have 3 dogs.

Man you can’t drill there, you’ll ruin the bunny slope.

 

[GlennSullivan]

Make Sure you include some overhead tire storage, saves a lot of floor space. I purchased through tire rack and later saw the exact same product with other brand names on them.

 

[Nolift911]

Badonk - My 02.

I think you are doing this all wrong after looking at the shop and this new build. You said you are keeping the old shop. So you don't need another one. So don't make another one. One shop is enough.

Pick a shop... any... shop but just have one. Looks to me like you are storing cars in the old shop - but don't have enough room in the shop to do shop stuff with all the cars in there. So you have to shuffle cars to do shop stuff - no room in the shop cuz its full of cars. 2 post lifts are for shop stuff not storage. If keeping the shop and tools then treat it as such...all cars to the mountains, unless it is in rotation for work in the shop. Plus your current shop is setup to be productive.

The new build is a storage place - current shop is a work place. Why blast or ******** work on projects in the new space? It dilutes the functionality, just treat it for what it is - a showroom if you will. That way you can pick and choose what gets rotated in and out for projects but always have a clean space for the showroom. 4 cars, snowmobiles, motorcycles, maybe more cars...plus you need a go kart for that driveway.

You got tools at the old shop, you got tools (new) at the new build...do I need this tool at this shop or did I bring the parts from that shop - but why? Your old shop will be empty of cars - tons of room to work so keep all functionality there.

Too much stuff - and you ain't getting any younger old man so time to consolidate. I know you won't do that so - use the new build to store the fruits of your labor and results of your projects bust a grind at the old shop where you make dust and get dirty.

Have coffee in the morning and bourbon in the evening strolling through the showroom looking at the mountains and enjoy - take one out for a spin, setup a wash and detail bay, check tire pressures - that is about as dirty as I would get in there.

I would be worrying about where the artwork and big screen would go in terms of layout for Sunday F1 and football while polishing the cars vs. the blast cabinet. You already setup up the compressor at the old shop - def don't need two.

Could be a mix of cars and a 3D-Design studio? - clean projects.

Again just my 02. Please make sure there is enough storage room though in the showroom for another GSA. I want my bike to stay clean.

Jeff

 

[badonk]

Badonk - My 02.

I think you are doing this all wrong after looking at the shop and this new build. You said you are keeping the old shop. So you don't need another one. So don't make another one. One shop is enough.

Pick a shop... any... shop but just have one. Looks to me like you are storing cars in the old shop - but don't have enough room in the shop to do shop stuff with all the cars in there. So you have to shuffle cars to do shop stuff - no room in the shop cuz its full of cars. 2 post lifts are for shop stuff not storage. If keeping the shop and tools then treat it as such...all cars to the mountains, unless it is in rotation for work in the shop. Plus your current shop is setup to be productive.

The new build is a storage place - current shop is a work place. Why blast or ******** work on projects in the new space? It dilutes the functionality, just treat it for what it is - a showroom if you will. That way you can pick and choose what gets rotated in and out for projects but always have a clean space for the showroom. 4 cars, snowmobiles, motorcycles, maybe more cars...plus you need a go kart for that driveway.

You got tools at the old shop, you got tools (new) at the new build...do I need this tool at this shop or did I bring the parts from that shop - but why? Your old shop will be empty of cars - tons of room to work so keep all functionality there.

Too much stuff - and you ain't getting any younger old man so time to consolidate. I know you won't do that so - use the new build to store the fruits of your labor and results of your projects bust a grind at the old shop where you make dust and get dirty.

Have coffee in the morning and bourbon in the evening strolling through the showroom looking at the mountains and enjoy - take one out for a spin, setup a wash and detail bay, check tire pressures - that is about as dirty as I would get in there.

I would be worrying about where the artwork and big screen would go in terms of layout for Sunday F1 and football while polishing the cars vs. the blast cabinet. You already setup up the compressor at the old shop - def don't need two.

Could be a mix of cars and a 3D-Design studio? - clean projects.

Again just my 02. Please make sure there is enough storage room though in the showroom for another GSA. I want my bike to stay clean.

Jeff

Good ideas - some of them lol. Me with a museum space? Come on now you know me better than that. And you'll notice there are 2 spots for motorcycles on the current plan. As you know I only have one, so the other has to come from somewhere...

The challenge to your challenge - is someday I could be retired and living more permanently with this new house and shop. So while I may still have the existing shop for in-depth full resto projects, it is 1.5 hours away from where I will spend most of my time. Today I struggle to move projects along at a good clip with a shop that's 20-30 minutes from home. Maybe that's a proximity thing, maybe not.

My original plan was to move out of the existing shop and sell it. But for the next 5 years or so, I think it will be nice to have two working spaces and the flexibility that comes with it. You are right that a lot of my ideas above duplicate what I already have.

 

[jbrentd]

Just found your thread and am looking forward to watching your shop go up. Glad to see you went deeper, you won't regret that.

Also a big fan of the UrQ. Have you had it a while and done the wrenching on it? Looks like it has some B3 suspension parts on it. Still running the stock 10 valve?

 

[badonk]

Just found your thread and am looking forward to watching your shop go up. Glad to see you went deeper, you won't regret that.

Also a big fan of the UrQ. Have you had it a while and done the wrenching on it? Looks like it has some B3 suspension parts on it. Still running the stock 10 valve?

I bought the URQ in 2020 so not that long ago. When I got it, it had the B3 suspension parts along with some things like shorter final drive from the 4000q. It still has a mostly stock 10v. In a prior rebuild the compression was increased slightly. I had the stock K26 turbo tweeked a little when it was rebuilt. Since 2020 I went through all of the suspension, powder coating it all and installing new bushings and bearings. The underside of the car is now in pretty good shape. Inside I've been tightening things up but it still needs a lot of work. The seats are original and need to be recovered (had a crazy high quote to do this which has me thinking of other paths - like Recaro LS/LX). Parts are really hard to come by in the US. I had a big order from Audi Tradition that I had shipped to Canada, then reshipped to me. That included a new old stock center console and glove box along with lots of other odds and ends that were available. I got some parts because I could and might need them <-- packrat. But I am seriously considering going to a 3B/AAN motor.

As things warm up I need to make some new A/C hoses, and replace/modernize the compressor with a Sanden conversion.

For now I'm just driving it an enjoying it as is. Snow tires installed and it's a beast. Last winter I went out with the Porsche and Audi clubs to do some ice driving...highly recommend if you can find a place.

 

[jbrentd]

You're doing God's work for that UrQ...love it! I hate that we have to go that route to get parts from Audi Tradition. I've used Issam several times in the past, as I am in on the tail end of making my B3 CQ into an S2 clone with a 3B from a '91 200 and some euro goodies. I sometimes put updates in my GJ thread.

 

[badonk]

You're doing God's work for that UrQ...love it! I hate that we have to go that route to get parts from Audi Tradition. I've used Issam several times in the past, as I am in on the tail end of making my B3 CQ into an S2 clone with a 3B from a '91 200 and some euro goodies. I sometimes put updates in my GJ thread.

Much of my URQ stuff is posted over on quattroworld under the name of downindenver. There is a small but very knowledgeable and helpful group there. Not a lot of activity on the group because as you know, it is such a small market - in the US there were only 668 cars originally imported and 65 in 1984. On that forum software it is tough to maintain a single thread.

Re: the other major project I've taken on, I did a build on a 1972 911 - one that I bought back in the 90s. That thread is over on Pelican for those that might be interested. Of course it is never done and I have a huge list that grows faster than it shrinks.

 

[Jayman17]

Winter has set in and I'm working on permitting, etc. Soils testing underway for well, septic and foundations planning and they sent this little rig out. Cool! Some days there are views, some days the clouds and snow win. Interesting stuff, kind of. Camera has caught what appears to be a pretty healthy coyote in the area. Good to know since I have 3 dogs.

Damn, that is an incredible view!!