The vintage Blackhawk Thread

[Private Lugnutz]

How did you black out your tools?

Painstakingly!

I had a whole thread on that set. (You guys know me and my predilections for preservation. The funny ironic and haha thing is, when I do decide to do something else with a set, I usually go crazy and really trick it out! I did something similar to a New Britain made Precision-Bilt set. I know, it seems like a contradiction, but in my mind it's not.) I'll see if I can find it and post a link to the thread, where I think I remember describing the process and where there are more photos, including close-ups, of the tools. I was super pleased with how they came out. For now, though, I'll just say I used a faux japanning or enamelling methodology. Essentially, I used a rattle can. But in between coats, except the final coat, I rubbed it down with steel wool. It makes the coats stick to each other better, and gives it that thick enamelled look.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here ya go, Don... (and really sorry for the pics being Photofucket fiasco era!)

Restored "Customized" Blackhawk Q.D. Wrench Set 32-CD (ca. 1930)

Presenting “Black Hills Gold” Source Notes I bought the original set in neglected, rusted, but restorable condition at the Collingwood Flea Market in Collingwood, NJ. It included the “C” type attache-style case, and most of the handles, attachments, and sockets, which were 1/2-inch...

www.garagejournal.com

And here's that gussied-up Precision-Bilt set. Again, so not like me, but I love it for its outlandishness.

"Yankee Spiegel Dandy" - Precision-Bilt Toolbox Restoration

As most of you know, I am inclined to preserve old toolboxes and do a full restoration (strip and repaint) only when absolutely necessary. And when a box is just too far gone to save “as is”, and I have to restore it, I don’t like the fresh-out-of-the-factory look. I prefer to use artistic...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Madjik Man]

Well this thread stirred my juices to complete my 30x set.

Still looking for the following if anyone can assist. Thank you.

39983 6" Extension
39986 Handle Bar (9") - this is the bar that goes through the extensions.
35110 5/16
35114 7/16

 

[thehorse13]

It's an Indian. Here's a 22 set, has usa to the side, Indian head logo on box lid still pretty good

Same exact box that came with my sack full of Blackhawk stuff. Your label is in better shape than mine.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Well, it is 100 years old, so any label is pretty good!

 

[Smokeshow69]

Deleted post. Wrong thread

 

[don long]

Well this thread stirred my juices to complete my 30x set.

Still looking for the following if anyone can assist. Thank you.

39983 6" Extension
39986 Handle Bar (9") - this is the bar that goes through the extensions.
35110 5/16
35114 7/16

If you have a 39990 extension I'll trade you for the 2 sockets you are looking for
Those 39986 handle bars are hard to come by I need 2 myself

 

[Madjik Man]

If you have a 39990 extension I'll trade you for the 2 sockets you are looking for
Those 39986 handle bars are hard to come by I need 2 myself

I do have an extra 39990 extension. It has a very faint owners mark on it, but otherwise in really good shape.

I’ll take photos as best I can to represent it.

And if you somehow find three of those bars I’d love to work something out with you

 

[Madjik Man]

If you have a 39990 extension I'll trade you for the 2 sockets you are looking for
Those 39986 handle bars are hard to come by I need 2 myself

@don long - just sent you a private message with photos as to not clog up this thread.

 

[four.cycle]

1925 Popular Science Monthly Blackhawk ad pp 92

 

[thehorse13]

1925 Popular Science Monthly Blackhawk ad pp 92

The most interesting part of this advertisement is the mention that Blackhawk made water pumps for Ford.

 

[Farmer J.]

The most interesting part of this advertisement is the mention that Blackhawk made water pumps for Ford.

I thought they were an aftermarket replacement water pump for fitting to Fords. Does anyone know otherwise?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The most interesting part of this advertisement is the mention that Blackhawk made water pumps for Ford.

I thought they were an aftermarket replacement water pump for fitting to Fords.

Perhaps Horse meant for Ford cars, not necessarily factory production. Either way, I believe you are correct, J.

The most interesting part about Horse's most interesting part, for me, is that the ad 4.c posted is dated 1925. That was the name change year. In 1924, the ad would've said American Grinder, and probably, "Also manufacturers of Blackhawk wrenches."

EDIT: Yeah, check this out.
Linked here is a 1924 American Grinder Mfg Co ad for their Ford water pump. (Problematic link, just click on page 31.)
Linked here, is a 1925 Blackhawk Mfgr Co ad for their Ford water pump.

 

[four.cycle]

as I recall, WP11 fit every Ford Model A built. (odd-looking affair - that thing in the "Ford" magazine linked just above.)
early V8's used a 33L and a 33R
(can't recall what the later V8 part number was it's still early.)

you only had to have three water pumps on the shelf to cover 90% of the market up until about 1932.

(* as an aside, that "Ford Dealer and Owner" publication in an interesting find - scrolling through a different edition I noticed all kinds of stuff I did not see in "Motor" or "Motor Age" or "Hardware Age" *)

 

[d42jeep]

Most Model T Fords didn’t have water pumps so most of the pumps offered were aftermarket accessories.

FordModelT.net - For Model T Owners & Enthusiasts

For all that's great about the Ford Model T, built between 1908 and 1927. Find photos, videos, FREE downloadable Model T manuals and spec sheets, links to parts suppliers, vehicle importation services, plus heaps more. Another major innovation brought about by Ford was the chain-production line...

www.fordmodelt.net

-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

(* as an aside, that "Ford Dealer and Owner" publication is an interesting find -...

As an aside to your aside about an interesting part about an interesting part about that Blackhawk ad, another great source for Ford-specific details are early K.R. Wilson "catalogs" (put in quotes because they are more like tutorials and treatises, with their explicitly Ford oriented after market parts sprinkled in) on IA/ITCL.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I have snagged every snip of "K.R. Wilson" I could find. Bits and pieces of stuff. True "gold mine" material.
American Grinder Mfg. Co. (aka "Blackhawk") advertised that water pump almost monthly in that "Ford Owner and Dealer" publication.
They were not the only company peddling Ford water pumps.
As an interesting coincidence I found an ad for your Blackhawk 4-way rim wrench, which claims to be "patented and the only one of its kind", notwithstanding the Fulton company having patented and marketed a similar device two years earlier,


December 1924 Ford Owner and Dealer Blackhawk 4-way rim wrench ad pp 136

 

[Private Lugnutz]

As an interesting coincidence I found an ad for your Blackhawk 4-way rim wrench, which claims to be "patented and the only one of its kind", notwithstanding the Fulton company having patented and marketed a similar device two years earlier,

Assuming they had to have been aware of the Fulton Copperhead, and perhaps the Bog and Walden, which used the Fulton design, by 1924, when that ad ran, I'm guessing by "kind" they don't mean "4-way demountable rim wrenches," as a type of tool, they probably mean something like, "4-way demountable rim wrenches constructed like ours, with a sliding sleeve, and the socket mounted in the same plane as the wrench, not offset." I noticed that Stan talked about the sliding sleeve as being the distinctive feature, which is true, but the orientation of the sleeve and the way the sockets connect directly to the speeder, just as any socket would, is the real difference.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a pretty nice 3/8” drive breaker bar I found recently. I don’t run across all that many Blackhawk tools.
-Don

 

[Blackhawkfan]

Do you remember this sad little merchandiser? It still needs quite a few bits to finish up all of the empty slots. If anyone has or knows where to find the following, please consider helping this poor little fella out. For extra credit, if you ever see the small variation of the Blackhawk topper sign that goes on the small merchandiser like this one, pleeeeease tell me. I do not have the luck of our good friend Don Long with Ebay.

Main cabinet:
T5
T13
T60
Socket drawer:
No. 16 - 1/2 inch
No. 14 - 7/16th
No. 18 - 9/16th square drive
No. 19 - 19/32nds
No. 25 - 25/32nds
No. 30 - 15/16th

PS
This cabinet will get a nice scrub with Bar Keepers Friend at some point. I just haven't gotten around to it just yet.

I made one myself from pictures. Does not look too bad...

 

[thehorse13]

I made one myself from pictures. Does not look too bad...

That's pretty good. I know that I can make a perfect reproduction by myself. It's getting to the point where I might just do the same thing that you did. I was holding out hope that an original would surface, even if in terrible shape. So far, not a single lead.

 

[Blackhawkfan]

That's pretty good. I know that I can make a perfect reproduction by myself. It's getting to the point where I might just do the same thing that you did. I was holding out hope that an original would surface, even if in terrible shape. So far, not a single lead.

I saw this one on ebay some months agon and decided to make my own. It was a bit too big and in bad shape...

 

[thehorse13]

I saw this one on ebay some months agon and decided to make my own. It was a bit too big and in bad shape...

Yep. That's the topper for the larger version of the merchandiser. You and I have the small one. Interestingly, I've seen several toppers come up for sale but only for the larger units. I've never seen one for the small one but there are just as many small merchandisers out there.

 

[1950mercury]

Just picked up a sj18 floor jack. Looking for a top and a source for a rebuild kit. Any restoration advice. Thanks. I'll get some pics posted

 

[Private Lugnutz]

You might want to also check the other Blackhawk thread, dedicated to all things such as jacks, porta-power, etc. If you click on the Sticky, you'll see it in the Index.

 

[oni888]

Here ya go, Don... (and really sorry for the pics being Photofucket fiasco era!)

Restored "Customized" Blackhawk Q.D. Wrench Set 32-CD (ca. 1930)

Presenting “Black Hills Gold” Source Notes I bought the original set in neglected, rusted, but restorable condition at the Collingwood Flea Market in Collingwood, NJ. It included the “C” type attache-style case, and most of the handles, attachments, and sockets, which were 1/2-inch...

www.garagejournal.com

And here's that gussied-up Precision-Bilt set. Again, so not like me, but I love it for its outlandishness.

"Yankee Spiegel Dandy" - Precision-Bilt Toolbox Restoration

As most of you know, I am inclined to preserve old toolboxes and do a full restoration (strip and repaint) only when absolutely necessary. And when a box is just too far gone to save “as is”, and I have to restore it, I don’t like the fresh-out-of-the-factory look. I prefer to use artistic...

www.garagejournal.com

i used to pick up cheap tools at Collingwood back in late 60's early 70's when i couldnt afford the tool truck stuff. got decent clothes and always had to get some greasy zeppole from the place in the very front of the building. was in NJ for a visit in 2010 and stopped in. place not like it used to be. no zeppole place anymore either! when you leave the place and head over the bridge to go north rt33 towards Freehold, just a little past the diner there used to be an excellent ginmill called the Roadhouse. burned down in early 80. do you know if the place ever got rebuilt and reopened?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Collingwood still thriving with good vintage tools, just depends on the time of year and day. Fridays are better than Sundays, and Saturdays are often dead. I won't say never, but I hardly ever get skunked. Still selling zeppole's, but inside. The Roadhouse is now The Cabin or The Tavern or something like that, I think. I live on the water and don't get out that way too much.

 

[oni888]

Collingwood still thriving with good vintage tools, just depends on the time of year and day. Fridays are better than Sundays, and Saturdays are often dead. I won't say never, but I hardly ever get skunked. Still selling zeppole's, but inside. The Roadhouse is now The Cabin or The Tavern or something like that, I think. I live on the water and don't get out that way too much.

thanks for the updates. when i was out there in 2010 with old neighborhood friends from parkway pines and brick, we couldnt find the zeppole, used to be right in front when you came in by the slot car track. didnt think to go around corner to see what happened to the old Roadhouse. that was a great place from the 70's up til it burned down. some of us went to Keifers country inn out in Farmingdale but just wasnt the same. before i left NJ in late 88 i was living in Stanhope so i didnt have much chance to get down your way. would fly into monmouth county airport for lunch sometimes but the place didnt provide any transportation to and from the auction for visitors. i guess no one at collingwood would give the FBO's any "kickback" for bringing customers.

 

[Dave455]

Some Blackhawk ”Gripline” sockets recently acquired.

Two are bi-square, four are Whitworth. All appear to be unused.

These look to be chrome plated, as they are much brighter than most I see, which suggests they are post war.


Despite having lived in the U.K. all my life, I never cease to be amazed at the stuff that turns up, it’s condition, or the length of time it’s been stashed somewhere!

Moral of the story - just because it’s nearly Christmas, don’t neglect your usual haunts!

 

[Ricky Joe]

That one looks like it might have a 1937 date code.

 

[930dreamer]

I need to get off the computer-
Crane is a Manzel

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Some Blackhawk ”Gripline” sockets recently acquired.

Two are bi-square, four are Whitworth. All appear to be unused.

These look to be chrome plated, as they are much brighter than most I see, which suggests they are post war.

Nice finds, Dave! As a reminder, we had a conversation about the three-groove sockets that were your grandfathers', as I recall, back in 2018, page 19. A few of my UK colleagues have prewar, wartime, and postwar Blackhawk Whitworths and, unlike the others of the same era, they were not date coded for some reason.

 

[Dave455]

Nice finds, Dave! As a reminder, we had a conversation about the three-groove sockets that were your grandfathers', as I recall, back in 2018, page 19. A few of my UK colleagues have prewar, wartime, and postwar Blackhawk Whitworths and, unlike the others of the same era, they were not date coded for some reason.

Indeed we did - I remember it well.

No, none of the Whitworth seems to be date coded.

My Grandfathers Blackhawk tools are among my most treasured possessions, primarily because he valued them so much. It was good to complete the story!

I should add that I have acquired a good deal of Blackhawk “Gripline” on my own account. I have two more complete sets of British Standard (sadly only one in it’s original box) as well as probably 50 or so British Standard sockets, and another set of original ”handles”.

Plus, of course, my beautiful SAE Caterpillar Serviceman‘s Tool Kit!

The latter remains on a sort of “Altar” in my office, flanked by my fathers collection of Handley Page Herald spares. My partner has long since given up any hope of normality..!

 

[Dave455]

As a matter of interest, every Blackhawk Whitworth socket I have found has fallen into one of three categories.

From left to right -


Left - cadmium plated, but superbly finished. I have seen numerous examples of these and believe them to date from immediately pre war to early war (that’s British war - 1939+)

My Grandfathers tools are these versions, and I’m absolutely positive these were purchased between 1938 and 1940. These dates have been disputed, it being maintained that cadmium plating was not introduced till later, but I’m certain of the dates.

I wonder if the British Purchasing Commission might have placed an order for cadmium finished tools before it was mandated for U.S. war production?

There are many other examples of items purchased from the U.S. in that period that were ordered with an economical finish, but were otherwise manufactured to a high standard.

Mid - cadmium plated, but somewhat rougher machined, with visible machining marks. I believe these to date from after the U.S. entered the war. The finish is typical of war production in the U.K. - perfectly functional, but no time wasted on polishing.

Right - chrome plated, and once again superbly finished. I believe these to be post war, as they are identical to post war SAE tools I have. But could they be pre war? Note the smaller lettering.

Whitworth (or British Standard) tools seem to have been supplied in sets comprising 9 BS bi-hex sockets from .525” to 1.300” (to use Blackhawk terminology) and 3 bi-square sockets of 1/2, 9/16 and 5/8, plus a ratchet (style dependent on era), extensions, U/J, and in some cases a breaker bar.

The British distributor may have been Brown Brothers, a well known garage equipment supplier, still in existence.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

These dates have been disputed, it being maintained that cadmium plating was not introduced till later, but I’m certain of the dates.

I don't know the source of the dispute, Dave, but cadmium plating was being used here in the US as an economy line finish well before the war, throughout the 1930's. While it's true that it became more pervasive here from 1942 to 1945, during nickel- and chrome-plating restrictions, as one of the more common replacement finishes (others were black oxide, zinc phosphate, and enamel), it being used as a wartime tell is often erroneous. Accentuating this argument is the fact that nearly all US policy with respect to controlling and restricting materials, including precious alloys, leveraged, learned from, and followed British policy. You were out ahead of us. Also, Blackhawk was not alone in sending cad-plated tools to England during this Cash-and-Carry into Lend-Lease period, Duro-Indestro was doing it, too. My UK collecting colleagues have both Bh and -D-I-, plain steel and cad. US tool makers wouldn't have been beholden to honor British policy in 1938, 1939, and 1940, but perhaps the specs on the contract called for cad plating or it was just less expensive for the MOD.

 

[Dave455]

I don't know the source of the dispute, Dave, but cadmium plating was being used here in the US as an economy line finish well before the war, throughout the 1930's. While it's true that it became more pervasive here from 1942 to 1945, during nickel- and chrome-plating restrictions, as one of the more common replacement finishes (others were black oxide, zinc phosphate, and enamel), it being used as a wartime tell is often erroneous. Accentuating this argument is the fact that nearly all US policy with respect to controlling and restricting materials, including precious alloys, leveraged, learned from, and followed British policy. You were out ahead of us. Also, Blackhawk was not alone in sending cad-plated tools to England during this Cash-and-Carry into Lend-Lease period, Duro-Indestro was doing it, too. My UK collecting colleagues have both Bh and -D-I-, plain steel and cad. US tool makers wouldn't have been beholden to honor British policy in 1938, 1939, and 1940, but perhaps the specs on the contract called for cad plating or it was just less expensive for the MOD.

Sadly, there are those out there not possessing your encyclopaedic knowledge Lugz!

I think some folks also mis read “Alloy Artifacts, who state that Gripline sockets were introduced BY 1941 (based on catalogue evidence), but some read it as IN 1941.

I think you are spot on, as usual, regarding dates and finishes. This all agrees with the timeframes as I understand them.

Interestingly, although the cadmium finish was regarded as a sort of “second choice” for finishing at the time, I find it to be superb in all respects.

Although not as shiny as chrome, it seems to retain it’s finish better. It doesn’t pick up noticeable scratches as easily as chrome, and if it does get damaged it just seems to get thin, rather than peeling off in flakes as chrome can.

The impression I get of the early cadmium plated sockets is that while they were produced using non strategic materials, they were made to an incredibly high standard.

If I had the chance to buy new tools to the same standard today, I would, but I’d feel a bit cheated if they were not cadmium!

 

[don long]

Here is a question for those in the know! I just found a handful of old Indian head sockets. As I look them over I notice that the knurl markings are slightly different then I notice that there are 3 distinctively different places on the sockets where the U.S.A is stamped.
First one I'm seeing is to the right of the logo and is U.S.A.
The second one is under the logo and is a much smaller U.S.A.
The 3rd one has Made In then the logo and U.S.A to the right.

My question is in what order of age do they fall under?
I also have a "T"10 extension with the Indian logo followed by U.S.A. and the same on a "T" 6 extension and wonder which set of sockets they go with?

 

[thehorse13]

Here is a question for those in the know! I just found a handful of old Indian head sockets. As I look them over I notice that the knurl markings are slightly different then I notice that there are 3 distinctively different places on the sockets where the U.S.A is stamped.
First one I'm seeing is to the right of the logo and is U.S.A.
The second one is under the logo and is a much smaller U.S.A.
The 3rd one has Made In then the logo and U.S.A to the right.

My question is in what order of age do they fall under?
I also have a "T"10 extension with the Indian logo followed by U.S.A. and the same on a "T" 6 extension and wonder which set of sockets they go with?

The "Made in USA" is the newest. I've seen people argue over the other two variants that you mention as far as which is older.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Spotted this early 30s 3/8 set box on ebay. For 12$ I couldn't say no

 

[z28lsc]

I recently got this 69998 3/4 in good condition. with a date code -1 which would be 1951?