craftsman creep
Well-known member
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- Dec 28, 2022
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Who makes this ratchet for matco tools
- Thread starter craftsman creep
- Start date
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I'm surprised it's no longer available. That's a pretty popular ratchet. Perhaps they're going to a higher tooth platform 
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Matco is the red haired stepchild of tool trucks. No, correction, that's actually Cornwell. Once in awhile Matco hits a homerun and their ratchets and toolboxes are both excellent.
finn
Well-known member
Looks like the AJ Manufacturing ratchet they sent my as a warranty replacement.
AJ was in Elmhurst Illinois at the time.
Excellent ratchet. I prefer it over my Snapons
AJ was in Elmhurst Illinois at the time.
Excellent ratchet. I prefer it over my Snapons
I've been under the assumption that the "t" designation in the part number comes from the time when Armstrong made those ratchets for Matco since the "t" no longer is present in the current AJ made ratchets. The current version of that ratchet should just be BFR118G. The weird thing though is none of the soft grips in the BFR118 ratchets seems to be available. Only the chrome handle can be ordered. It might be worth reaching out to Matco to find out what is going on there.
BFR118
BFR118
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Why ?
Ton ton
Well-known member
I have heard that the ratchet head is more compact on some of the matco ratchets.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
Spot on.
I remember “T” being removed from the part number back in 2016 on the first AJ made ratchets, after the highly aggravating long hiatus of unavailable Armstrong-sourced ratchets. I believe those AJ ratchets also had an X stamped on them.
Regarding the soft grips showing no longer available:
Its not just the 11”. Other fixed models appear the same.
The 18” (BFR188) are showing NLA.
The 8” (BFR88) in Pink shows NLA.
In 1/4 drive the 10” (AFR118) show NLA in red, green, orange. Blue is available.
In 1/2 drive the 25” (CFR248) show NLA.
Wouldnt be the first time Matco had ratchet problems.
finn
Well-known member
It’s much smoother, and feels better in my hand. I have three or maybe four SnapOn ratchets in various styles that are about that size, but seem to grab the Matco most often.
It took months, and maybe even a year to get the warranty replacement Matco ratchet. I don’t the details, but there was something about relocating production from Texas, then changing plans after finding the tooling to be worn out and having to resource from AJ.
The quote from the Matco rep was “ the bride was not as young as she appeared to be” In reference to the Armstrong acquisition, I think.
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plinker
Well-known member
Actually, Cornwell is a unicorn, the mystical thing that supposedly exists. Kinda like seeing bigfoot.
Matco is the brand everyone like to hate for whatever reason. I like their stuff overall.
The Eighty8 is an excellent ratchet and has a significantly thinner head than a dual 80; as does the GW 90T. The Dual 80 is an excellent ratchet also, but it doesn't really excel over any of the other brands in the Project Farm tests- it's very good, but doesn't dominate at all. In addition, the SO's head is, again, thicker than the GW 90T and Matco 88T. I have all three brands in 1/4 drive and don't really have a preference between them; but IMO, there is nothing superior to the Dual 80 (72) over the Matco 88 or GW 90T in 1/4 drive.
The new 100T SO ratchets have a thinner head than the Dual 80, so they realized that they were lagging behind other brands.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Interesting, I thought I was the only weirdo who liked my Matco ratchets more than my Snap-ons. Good to see.
I have the older T model ratchets but mine was before the 88s, they were 60T IIRC. My 3/8 ratchet I swapped the internals to 84T using a GW rebuild kit. I don't think I touched my 1/4, not even sure if there is higher tooth count for it. This reminds me, I've been meaning to get rebuild kits for them from Matco.
I did eventually pick up Dual 80 ratchets out of curiosity, F80, T72, & FC72. I don't use them much, I find myself reaching for my Matcos more or my old 36T Snappys (F936 & FHL936A). They just feel better to use to me. Maybe I just don't care for high tooth count much or maybe it's just habit?
BTW: in the pic below, you can see the GW selector installed. It doesn't work right in the Matco ratchet, not mine anyway. It will give you the dreaded self reversing direction problem. I put the original Matco selector back in with the GW 84T pawl & anvil.
I have the older T model ratchets but mine was before the 88s, they were 60T IIRC. My 3/8 ratchet I swapped the internals to 84T using a GW rebuild kit. I don't think I touched my 1/4, not even sure if there is higher tooth count for it. This reminds me, I've been meaning to get rebuild kits for them from Matco.
I did eventually pick up Dual 80 ratchets out of curiosity, F80, T72, & FC72. I don't use them much, I find myself reaching for my Matcos more or my old 36T Snappys (F936 & FHL936A). They just feel better to use to me. Maybe I just don't care for high tooth count much or maybe it's just habit?
BTW: in the pic below, you can see the GW selector installed. It doesn't work right in the Matco ratchet, not mine anyway. It will give you the dreaded self reversing direction problem. I put the original Matco selector back in with the GW 84T pawl & anvil.
Attachments
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I guess I'm one of the weirdos too. I like how the comfort grips feel, I like that they have longer sizes than everyone else, and I like their locking mechanism best. Plus they come in purple now, which is a win for me.
The Matco 88T are really good ratchets. Yes, they come from a "loser" tool truck company, but they are really good.
IMO, we've kinda reached "peak ratchet", where even a cheap Home Depot ratchet will shear the anvil, like the SO, and at a statistically similar value, at 20% of the price. And essentially meet, or exceed the SO, in all the other test variables.
If you actually value data, and not "it feels better", in the PF tests the SO dual 80 is in the top few ratchets for strength; but it's generally in the middle of the pack in everything else. If you have a SO driver and easy warranty, sure, maybe it makes sense over the years for a free rebuild kit, and especially for the super long lengths; they will break, if you want them to. But for the rest of us, there's no reason to buy a SO ratchet (or a Matco) unless you get a smoking deal, and it's a longer length that's not available in the other brands like GW. Typically the Matco 88T are cheaper on Ebay than SO, from what I've found.
IMO, we've kinda reached "peak ratchet", where even a cheap Home Depot ratchet will shear the anvil, like the SO, and at a statistically similar value, at 20% of the price. And essentially meet, or exceed the SO, in all the other test variables.
If you actually value data, and not "it feels better", in the PF tests the SO dual 80 is in the top few ratchets for strength; but it's generally in the middle of the pack in everything else. If you have a SO driver and easy warranty, sure, maybe it makes sense over the years for a free rebuild kit, and especially for the super long lengths; they will break, if you want them to. But for the rest of us, there's no reason to buy a SO ratchet (or a Matco) unless you get a smoking deal, and it's a longer length that's not available in the other brands like GW. Typically the Matco 88T are cheaper on Ebay than SO, from what I've found.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
IDK about peak-ratchet being reached, but I agree it's hard to get garbage anymore.
I also like the 88 tooth matco, although if we're talking about just the mechanism I prefer the dual 80. Actually I probably like the SK round head the most, issue being they don't fit in a lot of places. Matco has the best locking flex mechanism on the market by far. Slim, easy to use, allows locked and unlocked use.
What I mean by "peak ratchet" is that we've statistically reached the peak strength of the anvil, across many brands, without going to an uncommon material that would cost significantly more. So, now, IMO, it's going to be who can combine peak strength with lowest backdrag, etc. There's no more "I'm the strongest...." by a significant amount, and "buy me" because of that, for a premium price.
At this point, there's not going to be any significant amount of strength to be gained once you've statistically reached 200 lbf-in (edit: lbf-ft!!!) for a 3/8 drive; it's down to the finer details to decide on a brand if you don't have a tool truck stopping by each week.
I have a bunch of the SK round heads and love them. But like you said, they don't often work in today's transverse engine bays. But I still keep mine.
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Ton ton
Well-known member
It's a little bit like visiting an alien space ship. Nobody really believes you when you tell the story of stepping on a small Cornwell truck.
I always get hyped when the truck shows up only to be disappointed it's the uniform company.
That little man logo always makes me think Cornwell for a split second.
CGarage
Well-known member
Gear wrench 88T and 90T are my go to ratchets in locking flex head flavor.
I own all the others and I am as tool snobby as they come.
I have all of the other premium brands (Facom, Hazet, Nepros, Snap-On, etc) and use these 90% of the time.
I own all the others and I am as tool snobby as they come.
I have all of the other premium brands (Facom, Hazet, Nepros, Snap-On, etc) and use these 90% of the time.
CGarage
Well-known member
I always get hyped when the truck shows up only to be disappointed it's the uniform company.
That little man logo always makes me think Cornwell for a split second.
All I see is side-****. . .
The GW 90T is essentially the same as the Matco 88T internally. The gears and pawls interchange on 1/4 and 3/8 and function fine. Both gears are within a few thousandths of each other in diameter and height. The Matco design is better in that it uses a machined step for the cover plate to sit on, where the GW just lets it sit on the gear. This is irrelevant as far as function, but shows attention to detail and additional cost. But not 3-4X additional cost
I'd have all GW 90T, but both Matco and SO have a selection of longer ratchets that GW doesn't offer, especially in 1/4 and 3/8, so I've been buying the longer SO and Matco ones on Ebay when I can get a deal.
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How does one unsee this?!?
CGarage
Well-known member
Dude, it’s 2023, almost 2024. There is more of where that came from, short hair and all. Get used to it, it’s a new world!
CGarage
Well-known member
The GW 90T is essentially the same as the Matco 88T internally. The gears and pawls interchange on 1/4 and 3/8 and function fine. Both gears are within a few thousandths of each other in diameter and height. The Matco design is better in that it uses a machined step for the cover plate to sit on, where the GW just lets it sit on the gear. This is irrelevant as far as function, but shows attention to detail and additional cost. But not 3-4X additional cost
I'd have all GW 90T, but both Matco and SO have a selection of longer ratchets that GW doesn't offer, especially in 1/4 and 3/8, so I've been buying the longer SO and Matco ones on Ebay when I can get a deal.
I could not tell a difference when I compared the Matco against the GW 90T locking. I sort of like the thinner GW comfort grip handle, too. The Matco is beefier, but the thin profile of the GW has its advantages.
I agree, GW needs to offer Extra Long sizes.
I'm not asking for GW to make longer sizes. And they shouldn't . I'm actually shocked they make a 24" flex head 1/2 drive.
The issue is that if they made a 12"+ 1/4 drive, 20"+ 3/8 drive.... people will break them, and expect a new one for free. Cause, "this is 'merica, you owe me a new one". For some reason. Even if I paid 25% of the tool truck price, I expect a new one because my fat *** managed to break something by putting 2X the actual max design force on it. No. That shouldn't be the way it works. Even I can break a 12" 1/4 drive ratchet, and I weigh 165 lbs. So, if you expect the "if I can break what you can make" warranty, you need to talk to Snap On, and take out the wallet.
I expect the warranty the manufacturer offers. Nothing more, nothing less.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
They shouldn't make that length if they don't want the tools used. Harder to break a 12" 1/4 ratchet than you think, but yes it can be done.
Come work with me for a week and you'll understand why these tools need to exist. Going up a drive size is not an option in many cases.
You can't use a long offset box wrench because the unibody is in the way, cant swing it. Even if you could, you would need to use the ratcheting end, 12 point cant engage the next point in the swing arc you have. No power tools either, don't fit. Even with nano sockets 1/2 drive hits the coil spring. 18" long flex head 3/8 is your only option, with a low profile socket at that. And it was torqued to 90ft/lbs with a gallon of locktite at the factory, 6 years ago. This is a caliper bracket bolt.
I own all the longest ratchets matco makes. Other than the anvil failing in my 1/2 I’ve not had one break from pulling on it as hard as I can. The 1/4 is for access not torque, longer handle means less for to accomplish the same task. Some people know how to use tools and you shouldn’t project on them.
TheWanderer
Well-known member
Yesterday I had to take a looping detour to get on the highway I needed since Orange Season has begun in Michigan. At the bottom of an exit I took I was at a red light and across the intersection from me was a Cornwell Tool Truck parked at a shop.
I was rather surprised.
I contemplated going over there, but my understanding is that Unicorns are flighty and I didn't want to scare it off.
joel63
Well-known member
Where's Mac in this conversation?
This was my point. GW, Tekton.... doesn't generally make the crazy long sizes that the tool trucks do for a reason. Warranty. They don't charge the 3X premium to cover it.
A 1/4" anvil breaks at about 100 lbf-ft per tests online. I have several 12" Snap On 1/4" drive so I can easily break one if I wanted to.
chevy.stroker
Well-known member
Tekton actually now offers:
1/4 in 9"
3/8 in 18"
1/2 in 24"
1/4 in 9"
3/8 in 18"
1/2 in 24"
mikebaker1129
Well-known member
Like that Matco special forces ratchetInteresting, I thought I was the only weirdo who liked my Matco ratchets more than my Snap-ons. Good to see.
I have the older T model ratchets but mine was before the 88s, they were 60T IIRC. My 3/8 ratchet I swapped the internals to 84T using a GW rebuild kit. I don't think I touched my 1/4, not even sure if there is higher tooth count for it. This reminds me, I've been meaning to get rebuild kits for them from Matco.
I did eventually pick up Dual 80 ratchets out of curiosity, F80, T72, & FC72. I don't use them much, I find myself reaching for my Matcos more or my old 36T Snappys (F936 & FHL936A). They just feel better to use to me. Maybe I just don't care for high tooth count much or maybe it's just habit?
BTW: in the pic below, you can see the GW selector installed. It doesn't work right in the Matco ratchet, not mine anyway. It will give you the dreaded self reversing direction problem. I put the original Matco selector back in with the GW 84T pawl & anvil.
Me too. I used the heck out of it. It was my first "real" ratchet I ever purchased when I started working at a shop. Before that I only had round head Husky USA ratchets that came in a set. I would go to Sears weekly but I never liked any of their Craftsman ratchets, they just felt cheap & sloppy to me so I never purchased a single one.
I have the Matco Special Forces pass through sockets in metric but I never found them to be useful working on cars & pretty much never used them. I would often pop out the anvil & use it as a finger spinner. I still have it all but rarely use it these days. It's sentimental value for me now.
chris142
Well-known member
Every thng Matço sells is rebranded, All the others make somethiñg of there own,
In relation to NLA. There was talk about the NLA ratchets & 3/8" 88T rebuild kits on another thread.
Posted this in that thread..... I emailed Matco stating I've been wanting to purchase 3/8 & 1/4 88T rebuild kits but their website has show NLA for the 3/8 kits for quite sometime. Told them I wanted the kits for my old 60T "T" ratchets so I had no problem paying for them. They asked me a few questions in which I responded, then sent em to me for free. Many people don't seem to like Matco much but I did back then & still do now, they've always taken care of me. Although not many tools they offer these days that interest me.
So it may be possible that some of those ratchets showing NLA on their website might actually be in stock. And/or they can point you to a local dealer in your area that might have them on the truck also.
Posted this in that thread..... I emailed Matco stating I've been wanting to purchase 3/8 & 1/4 88T rebuild kits but their website has show NLA for the 3/8 kits for quite sometime. Told them I wanted the kits for my old 60T "T" ratchets so I had no problem paying for them. They asked me a few questions in which I responded, then sent em to me for free. Many people don't seem to like Matco much but I did back then & still do now, they've always taken care of me. Although not many tools they offer these days that interest me.
So it may be possible that some of those ratchets showing NLA on their website might actually be in stock. And/or they can point you to a local dealer in your area that might have them on the truck also.
Or made for them exclusively. I didn't know that 25 yrs ago when I was buying from Matco. I only gave my money to Matco & Snap-on during that time. Our Mac dealer was on old ***** so I never stepped foot on his truck again. Cornwell is still a myth to me, still have never seen a Cornwell truck ever around here.
I really don't care that much that my Matco stuff is not actually made by them as they don't make anything. I still have my Matco USA combo wrenches made by Armstrong which I'm still happy with as well as some other stuff. The ratchets I have above are still some of my favorites, I still reach for them more than my Snappys. However these days I wouldn't buy wrenches from them or really anything, I don't really need anything.
So speaking of Matco rebranding, does anyone know who makes this for Matco & can it be purchased from that CM? Nit that I need one but if it's available for much cheaper that for what Matco wants for it I'd buy one.
