Help with fluorescent vs led bulb comparison...and general shop lighting.

[charbar]

Ok so in my shop I have 4ft. 6 bulb T5 fixtures. 8 of the 12 fixtures have ballast out so I either have only two or four of the six bulbs working in those fixtures. Been thinking of just converting them all to direct wire LED bulbs. Here is my problem....I popped a bulb out and when I look up the specs on the manufactures website (Halco F54T5/865/HO/ECO/IO) it tells me they are a 54w, 6500k color temp and 4650 lumen. I have yet to find a T5 LED replacement that is more than 3500-3600 lumens, and most are about 5000k color temp at most.

Does this mean I am actually going to loose about 1000 lumens per light bulb or is there some kind of fluorescent to LED wizardry that I am missing here???? I keep seeing these 3500 lumen LEDs referred to as a '54 watt fluorescent equivalent' but I'm not buying it considering the lumen difference....but I don't know much about this stuff. There is no way I'm going to go backwards as far as light output if that is going to be the case. If anything I wouldn't mind more light than I already have (currently have 12 fixtures total in a 40x72 shop with 13.5 tall ceilings)

Do the LED bulbs put out light a full 360* around the body of the light like the fluorescents or do they need to be installed a certain direction-such as they have a string of lights in the tube that only shines one direction? A top and bottom so to say? Mostly wondering if the reflect off the top of the light fixture like the fluorescents do or not?


My other thought was replacing all my current fixtures with LED UFO lights. My electrician cousin has mentioned that to me a few times. I though they were more for high bays though, and at 13.5ft to my ceiling I wouldn't necessarily call mine high bay. Maybe that is still tall enough for the UFOs???

Last idea is just to replace the ballast and keep running the T5 fluorescents. Replace ballast as needed in the future then.


Im not really worried about comparing prices but for shlits and giggles it looks like its about 60 bucks each for a replacement ballast ($480 right now to get me fully functioning again). To go all T5 LED conversion Im going to be around 800 dollars for bulbs or for UFOs it looks like they average around $100 each for a 30,000 lumen one-I assume I would need at least 12 of those also to match my current lighting?



Any thoughts?

 

[American Locomotive]

The LED retrofit bulbs fire most of their light downward (and thusly are directional when installing), meaning generally speaking, you need less lumens to get the same effective light output.

If you have very high dollar high end specular reflector T5 lights with ~95% efficient reflectors, you will lose some light output by going to LED retrofit. But it's unlikely you have those fixtures.

 

[lolaetype]

There's these. More lumens, but "only" 5000K, which IIRC is considered "daylight"

https://www.amazon.com/retrofit-Fluorescent-Directly-Previous-Ballast/dp/B085885B6V/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I converted twelve two bulb T8 fixtures to direct wire LED, 5500K and couldn't be happier.

 

[zendriver]

I've never seen any LED that produced less real light, that the fluorescent tubes they replaced.

Ditch the tubes and be glad you did.

I got some low cost tube LEDS from Sams club and retrofitted some troffers, I got for free.

No comparison to the old fluorescents

 

[Cword]

if you have solid state ballasts, there are compatible LED tubes, so you can test, and compare the lighting in your space. So replacing a couple of your bad ballasts with solid state will give you in house test fixtures for making comparisons. If you end up unhappy with the LED the solid state ballast still runs the T5's you're familiar with.

 

[BLUE72CAMARO]

I cant speak on the conversion tubes as I knew even if I upgraded the t12 fixtures that I had they would still be inadequate and I absolutely despised them by the time I ready to upgrade lighting in my back shed.

But I can tell you that ufo's work just fine at 13ish feet high. This is my back shed with a dozen 150 watt ufo's in 36 x 48 area. You can see the old fixtures still in place in the photo below.

 

[charbar]

The LED retrofit bulbs fire most of their light downward (and thusly are directional when installing), meaning generally speaking, you need less lumens to get the same effective light output.

If you have very high dollar high end specular reflector T5 lights with ~95% efficient reflectors, you will lose some light output by going to LED retrofit. But it's unlikely you have those fixtures.

Interesting. That answers the question I was getting at about reflecting off the fixture. I figured it would be the opposite really. The light spread with the LEDs compared to reflecting fluorescents isn't a concern?

Is there a difference between LED brands or are they all the same with a different sticker on them?
Basically can a person get by with the cheaper LED lights or will it end up being one of those deals where I replace all the cheap ones with good ones and end up spending 75% more than if I would have just used the name brand ones to begin with?

 

[zendriver]

Interesting. That answers the question I was getting at about reflecting off the fixture. I figured it would be the opposite really. The light spread with the LEDs compared to reflecting fluorescents isn't a concern?

Is there a difference between LED brands or are they all the same with a different sticker on them?
Basically can a person get by with the cheaper LED lights or will it end up being one of those deals where I replace all the cheap ones with good ones and end up spending 75% more than if I would have just used the name brand ones to begin with?

Reflectors help (at least some) no matter the light design.

I have some tubes from Sam's Club I think I paid $18 pr, most probably way less today. The have been working perfect for six years now.

 

[no704]

Ya the led ones I’ve seen have a built in reflector covering about 45deg of the top.

 

[jhelrey]

And you'll want bypass or direct wire...

In my experience, the LED has always been more bright.

 

[zkdiesel]

Reflectors help (at least some) no matter the light design.

I have some tubes from Sam's Club I think I paid $18 pr, most probably way less today. The have been working perfect for six years now.

Most led drop ins don’t shine upwards to use reflector….. only down

Done the conversion on two shops.
The led drop in(for use with ballasts) will provide more light then what you removed

 

[The Cobbler]

If you're retrofitting fluorescent fixtures, I recomend getting ballast by pass bulbs so you ditch the ballasts. why keep something that you don't need and is prone to fail

 

[zkdiesel]

If you're retrofitting fluorescent fixtures, I recomend getting ballast by pass bulbs so you ditch the ballasts. why keep something that you don't need and is prone to fail

The led draw is so low that the ballasts don’t fail once converted

 

[nadogail]

I replaced the fluorescent lights in my shop with LED screw in modules. The power usage went down and the light levels went up.

 

[charbar]

Thanks for the input guys. I think Ill just go ahead and do the LED conversion then. I will go with the direct wire/ballast bypass lights since 8 out of my 12 lights have ballast out right now. Probably going to try these ones unless anyone has a reason not to???

4 ft. LED T5 Tube - 5000 Kelvin - 3500 Lumens - Type B - Operates Without Ballast

Do you have old T5HO fluorescents that hum or flicker? Be free of those issues by retrofitting to LED with these LEDT-10081 T5 tubes from 1000Bulbs.com!

www.1000bulbs.com

What do I do with all my old fluorescent T5 bulbs? Recreate the lightsaber scene from The 40 Year Old Virgin??

ZK do you remember where you got your bulbs from? I suppose you found some deal where you got five shops worth of lights for a case of beer?

 

[zkdiesel]

Thanks for the input guys. I think Ill just go ahead and do the LED conversion then. I will go with the direct wire/ballast bypass lights since 8 out of my 12 lights have ballast out right now. Probably going to try these ones unless anyone has a reason not to???

4 ft. LED T5 Tube - 5000 Kelvin - 3500 Lumens - Type B - Operates Without Ballast

Do you have old T5HO fluorescents that hum or flicker? Be free of those issues by retrofitting to LED with these LEDT-10081 T5 tubes from 1000Bulbs.com!

www.1000bulbs.com

What do I do with all my old fluorescent T5 bulbs? Recreate the lightsaber scene from The 40 Year Old Virgin??

ZK do you remember where you got your bulbs from? I suppose you found some deal where you got five shops worth of lights for a case of beer?

I fix his trucks. I got enough to do 20 fixtures. He has refused to send bill

 

[mharmon]

The bulbs you listed have a lower color rendering index (CRI) than what is optimal. I prefer bulbs over 90 personally.

 

[lakelandcat]

I replace my 4' T8 with LED Daylight, each fixture has 4 bulbs I have 2 in my 20x24 and two screw in flush mount can LEDs and its way brighter and more than enough. Not going to worry about the ballast until the time comes. Lowes had a damaged box of 12 with one bulb that was broken, at the time the case was $75 I paid $7.50.

 

[zendriver]

Most led drop ins don’t shine upwards to use reflector….. only down

Done the conversion on two shops.
The led drop in(for use with ballasts) will provide more light then what you removed

your original fluorescent light reflectors don't shine brighter when the LED lights are on?

 

[Balvar24]

When the ballasts die, I switch.

LED power draw is less, so I can put more on a circuit.

 

[Shadowfax]

Metalux SHP 46 in. 128-Watt Equivalent, 10000-Lumens Integrated LED, White Shop Light, 4000K CCT 4SHP10040R - The Home Depot

The Metalux 46 in. 10000 Lumens SHP LED is a high lumen, lightweight, pre-assembled shop light. The 10K SHP comes with a 5 ft. power cord, so installation is as easy as plug and play. At 10,000 Lumens

www.homedepot.com

I put these in all my garage bays....made a huge difference..very bright...and, they are about $5 cheaper than when I bought them.

 

[Fixr]

One thing to remember about lumens when comparing fluorescent and LED is that fluorescent light output is at peak when they are brand new, and they steadily degrade until they die. They can get very noticeably dim. After a couple of years, a new tube will be distinctly brighter than one that has been in use. LEDs seem to be much better at retaining output. So, over time, a
"3600 lumen" LED may put out more light than a "4650 lumen" flourescent.

In the OPs case, I would convert one of the dead fixtures to direct wire LED and see how it actually compares.

 

[zkdiesel]

your original fluorescent light reflectors don't shine brighter when the LED lights are on?

Light output on mine is only 180*

 

[charbar]

The bulbs you listed have a lower color rendering index (CRI) than what is optimal. I prefer bulbs over 90 personally.

Another number/spec I had no idea about. I will do some more looking with that number in mind. Thanks.

 

[zkdiesel]

I did get the bills from these rectangular units and the round units I’ve been installing this last few weeks. 10.5 so far in my electrical supplies. I put round units in the other 4 buildings and added some rounds to supplement the farm shop led conversion lights today.
The new conversion shop getting the expensive rectangular units as I need the high clearance over the round units

 

[cycle61]

Another number/spec I had no idea about. I will do some more looking with that number in mind. Thanks.

Essentially, it has to do with how well the LED’s actually produce a full spectrum white light that our human eyes can easily understand. Lower CRI lighting has a fatiguing effect, as your brain is continually trying to adapt your vision to some unnatural conditions.

 

[charbar]

I did get the bills from these rectangular units and the round units I’ve been installing this last few weeks. 10.5 so far in my electrical supplies. I put round units in the other 4 buildings and added some rounds to supplement the farm shop led conversion lights today.
The new conversion shop getting the expensive rectangular units as I need the high clearance over the round units

So what are the 'rectangular' ones you have in there? Looks like they put out a hell of a lot more light than the round ones. Also wondering if you are going to put tires on those 4wds or just make slicks out of them

 

[charbar]

Essentially, it has to do with how well the LED’s actually produce a full spectrum white light that our human eyes can easily understand. Lower CRI lighting has a fatiguing effect, as your brain is continually trying to adapt your vision to some unnatural conditions.

Good to know. My vision and brain is already fatigued enough so it sounds like the higher the better. Thanks for the explanation!

 

[isb cornbinder]

I cannot deal with the slower pulsing light from fluorescent lights. The tubes are energy efficient, but the transformers use a lot of energy. Try touching a transformer after it has been on for an hour. I replaced all of my shop lighting with LED. The shop is much brighter and the BC Hydro meter barely moves, now.
The fluorescent tubes appeared to attract metal dust from the air in the shop. Where ever the metal dust stuck to the tube, the tube would turn brown then black ant the tube died.
I seldom got a year out of a fluorescent tube. LED is guaranteed to last for many years.
My 84 year old Ford is all LED. The high beam indicator. left and right signal indicators are LED and fiber optics. I use Pulse Width Modulation to dim the dash lights. PWM is a very common method of dimming LED lights that works by very rapidly turning them on and off for periods that visually appear as a steady dimmed light.
If you are interested, I milled the dash insert from one piece of aluminium bar. It took several hours on a manual machine. The insert fits without modifying the car. The OEM tabs hold the insert tightly.
I do not have pictures of the shop lights.

 

[zkdiesel]

So what are the 'rectangular' ones you have in there? Looks like they put out a hell of a lot more light than the round ones. Also wondering if you are going to put tires on those 4wds or just make slicks out of them

 

[cybrdyke]

There is no such company as PLT. It's just a sticker, a house brand of 1000bulbs. You'll never know who actually made them. I wouldn't buy from 1000bulbs anyway. They worked their way up to where they are now by using good quality brands and now that they're big, they're doing a money grab by using cheaper products under the PLT brand name.
Ditch the fluorescents. They'll be banned in a few years anyway. Look for brands like Satco, Halco, RAB, Eiko, Keystone. These are the pro brands.
Look for a 24 or 25 watt T5HO tube that delivers 3500 lumens at 5000K. Dont worry about CRI. The 3500 lumens in a downward beam of 120 to 200 degrees will outperform your fluorescents. Bypass the ballasts.
Good luck,
CD

 

[Zotreccy]

I swapped out my old T8 fluorescents for LEDs from seuslighting.com and noticed a big difference in clarity and brightness. The color temp options made it easy to match the natural daylight I like in my shop. The build quality was solid, and I didn't have to mess with rewiring since they had plug-and-play options for existing ballasts. Way less buzz and flicker too, which was driving me nuts before.

 

[whateg01]

... Lower CRI lighting has a fatiguing effect, as your brain is continually trying to adapt your vision to some unnatural conditions.

Dont worry about CRI.

Tbf, I've never really paid attention to cri, but I do notice color variations sometimes when someone has different brands of lights, even if they are supposed to be the same color temp.

Also, is good to finally start seeing fewer people defending florescent lights as being better than led.

 

[finn]

I've never seen any LED that produced less real light, that the fluorescent tubes they replaced.

Ditch the tubes and be glad you did.

I got some low cost tube LEDS from Sams club and retrofitted some troffers, I got for free.

No comparison to the old fluorescents

I converted my shop to LED a year ago. Had 9 fixtures with double 8’ fluorescents that were starting to drop out probably because the ballasts were failing, but the fluorescent tubes were darkening and failing, too.

I had replaced one fixture’s ballast and tubes a couple of years ago, but it’s a 16’ ceiling and there’s no way I was doing the remaining eight fixtures by myself, so I bit the bullet and hired a local electrician to convert all 9 to LED. Did I say I hate ladders and heights?

I don’t know what bulbs he put in, but I’m 100% happy with the results. Clean, fresh bulbs by themselves probably made a huge improvement, with the LED and the prospect of potentially not having to service aging fluorescents well worth the cost. I don’t even remember what he charged.

 

[ssjones]

Be careful if you are using a wireless garage door opener.
Last year, in our new home, I replaced the three 2-tube LED fixtures with five, 4-tube fixtures. A guy on Facebook was selling the fixtures with bulbs for $20/each.
The garage looks like an airport at night, perfect!
Then, I discovered my built-in car openers (Toyota/Chevy) wouldn't work. My wall-mount key pad also wouldn't open the garage door. My opener was of an unknown vintage, perhaps as old as the house (23 yrs). So, I bought a new Chamberlain opener and installed it. Same issues.
Chamberlain has a very good customer service line and the tech walked me thru pairing the remotes twice, same issue.
Then he said - do you have LED lights in your garage. I told him what I had. He asked are the lights on now. Yep. Turn them off - all the remotes work find. He said the RF is interfering with the signal. Now, I just have to remember to turn the lights off when leaving (typically they are off).

 

[The Bean]

I worked in architectural lighting design field for many years, through the advent of CFL, LED, and saw all the upcoming conversions. Most lighting fixtures are designed for specific lamp type. Conversions were subject to compromise from the start. It has gotten better, but the best solution is a new fixture designed to make the most efficient use of the lamp (light source) it was developed around. Lumens, luminocity, efficacy, footcandles, color rendering index, color degrees Kelvin, reflector design, diffuser type and design, etc is a science. The suppliers today dumb it down for the big-box consumer.
While we were designing space with concealed lighting and cutoff angles, the Europeans were hanging bare bulbs.

 

[Dagny]

If you have a high ceiling get highbays