Bed frame angle, what's it made of?
- Thread starter ching0n
- Start date
JABgj
Well-known member
A little bit of this and a little bit of that.
I saw the warnings from the google but wondered if the opposite could be true? Meaning it's a special blend hardened/spec'd for stiffness to hold two adults doing the biz? Imagine angle iron made of spring steel and expecting it to behave like mild IOW, it'd be easy to chuck it up as '**** steel' too no?
rlitman
Well-known member
It's s**** made with medium to high carbon. Heat treats into a lightweight but stiff frame, but welds into a brittle nightmare. Same **** as non-weldable rebar. "Special blend" of old school bus frames one day and ship parts another, but unlikely to include anything as quality as railroad track.
MarineScott
Well-known member
I weld it all the time, NOTHING structural. Drilling can be difficult.
rlitman
Well-known member
It's usually tempered out of the factory, so drilling works best if you start with a sharp bit and use heavy force to keep it cutting (lube helps), but only before welding. Once you let it heat up (by welding, or just friction with the drill bit), get the abrasives out.
I also keep pieces of old bed frames around for random stuff, but yeah, nothing structural.
Notice any different between the angle used? I picked two widths from the scrap yard, 1.25 and 1.5". The 1.25" behaved just like when I welded a scrap transmission flex plate many many yrs ago.
pancholasvegas
Well-known member
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- Nov 6, 2017
- Messages
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It's all trash. Like everyone else said, it's a crockpot of whatever was melted that day. That being said, like others, I do keep it around for non-structural stuff that needs built.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
The only thing consistent about bed rails is that the metal is always inconsistent, many times in the same piece.
driftpin
Well-known member
Bed frame material is born of witches, nourished by vampires, and is used by golems for bed frames.
alfadan
Well-known member
I thought it was re-rolled railroad iron.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
rancherbill
Well-known member
That is misleading.
It is a specific alloy for bed manufacturing. The steel has to flex, bla bla bla a whole list of characteristics. It is made to a specific formula - bed manufacturer do not want failures while customers are in a moment of passion. It is not made up of whatever was at the scrap yard that day.
It is hard, it is weldable if you have the right temp and filler. It is more difficult for hobby welders.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
So where can one see this "Bed frame" alloy's specific formula?
I stumbled onto a hobart forum thread quoting an NJ manufacturer singing its praises w/properties and manufacturing method. Alas, NJ steel mill phased out that product and pulled the docs.
I think most people have a misunderstanding of modern steel manufacturing. A whole lot (most?) steel starts off as scrap (be it bed frames or tool steel) and you've got your metallurgist tweaking the batch formula for its specific needs.
That's not to say you don't have some backyard smelters in (pick deregulated 3rd world country) just rolling out **** and exporting products manufactured by the locals either.
Debcrow
Well-known member
It is consistently hard. It can be drilled with a good sharp bit.
I have welded it with no problems after getting proper settings. It is OK for some projects, but In do not use it for anything structural/critical.
If you think it is going to be a problem, bolt it and weld it.
I have welded it with no problems after getting proper settings. It is OK for some projects, but In do not use it for anything structural/critical.
If you think it is going to be a problem, bolt it and weld it.
@ 1:41
Last edited:
oldmachinenut
Well-known member
This
acer66
Well-known member
No wonder I sleep like a baby on them.
WillyBoy
Well-known member
Also, if you have a portable bandsaw and you want all the teeth removed from the blade, try cutting a piece of this stuff.
It's way easier and less costly to cut with a disc in an angle grinder. I've used pieces of it in a variety of small projects using a Miller 211 MIG.
It's way easier and less costly to cut with a disc in an angle grinder. I've used pieces of it in a variety of small projects using a Miller 211 MIG.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
I found fence stakes to behave the same when trying to weld them..... ie not good.
alfadan
Well-known member
I think it was Dirt Jobs where he was in a steel plant melting down scrap. They took a sample to send to the chemist(?) and they told them what needed to be added.
They threw in bags of manganese and other elements. Pretty cool stuff....well hot stuff!
There was a lot of steel processing talk when I took material science ages ago & it's just like you say. It's like your mother's recipe & it all starts w/the same chicken broth (generally speaking). That Jersey operation though, looks like they recycle railroads by heating the steel to cherry temp and then splicing and dicing the shapes of the finished product. Pretty 'cool' stuff as you say.
that JJ operation that splits railroads also makes fence stakes it looks like.
the 30$ HF mini chop saw struggled w/o a doubt. I should've busted out the plasma cutter but really wanted to pick this cute thing. It's a mixed bag, I like the compactness of it but whoever decided to make the hinge/housing out of plastic deserves to be tried in a stadium like China does.
Get this lady in charge of testing:
A Metalli | Serralheria Artesanal on Instagram: "Alguem aí sabe me dizer o que essa mulher tomou? 😂😂😂 #serralheria #serralheiro #obras #welding"
475K likes, 7,225 comments - ametalliserralheria on May 17, 2024: "Alguem aí sabe me dizer o que essa mulher tomou? 😂😂😂 #serralheria #serralheiro #obras #welding".
www.instagram.com
American Locomotive
Well-known member
I like using bedframes 'cause they're free, but they can be difficult to work with. I'm not exactly sure what "structural" means in the context of hobbyist welding at home. I guess I wouldn't build a truck frame out of bed frames, but I'll build shelves, etc... whatever out of it.
MovingAlong
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Have always heard that bed frames referred to as the bologna/sausage of the metal world...
Have cut & welded many projects from them: brackets, shelve supports, table frame for wood insets, etc. Nothing you'd need to count on.
Hey, free metal is free metal.
structural is usually meant to refer to something carrying a load, "critical", where life or limb can be on the line, "decorative" is something you put in a flower pot or on a shelf. I would consider a bed frame, a hanging shelf or a welding cart 'structural', not necessarily 'critical'; though a falling paint can can still kill someone. It would be nice to know how to weld it successfully w/o it quench cracking (pre-heat/anneal?). Found a tip on drilling it:
woodscaper
Well-known member
Jersey Shore Steel is located near me in Lycoming County, PA not New Jersey. Primary source of their products including bed frames are railroad rails.
https://jssteel.com/our-rail-steel-products/railroad-rails-high-strength-angle-iron/
https://jssteel.com/our-rail-steel-products/railroad-rails-high-strength-angle-iron/
rancherbill
Well-known member
That is a xenophobic and racist comment.
cowades206
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- Joined
- May 7, 2016
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- 83
Interesting experiences here. I'll add mine. My first bed rail project, the metal was strong and welded great. Thought I was on to something. I've done a number of projects with bed rails since with results ranging from great to terrible. Some has been so hard, hack saw blades wouldn't cut it and had to use the angle grinder. Some has been so weak I had to scrap it and buy steel. My experience is spread over 30+ years. I didn't know the age or origin of any of the rails.
Sure been a **** shoot, but sometimes I won.
As MovingALong said: "free metal is free metal" and sometimes it has been worth every penny.
Not surprised there are a lot off opinions about this.
Good luck.
Sure been a **** shoot, but sometimes I won.
As MovingALong said: "free metal is free metal" and sometimes it has been worth every penny.
Not surprised there are a lot off opinions about this.
Good luck.
Wow: flashback time. I haven't been much involved in physmet for 49 years, but if my fading memory serves at all rail is about 70 points C but 100 Mn. The carbon means it is both heat treatable and hard but the Manganese is there for it to constantly work harden from use. It is the Mn that will make it a ***** to get a decent weld (note: most railroad track is welded today, so a *****, not an impossible one). JSS is a fantastic example of how steel can so effectively be recycled (what they do far more processing than could be called re-use or re-purpose).
Jim greengo
Well-known member
Really high grade stuff,have you ever tried drilling a hole in it?
You don't waste time drilling this kind of material, you punch it. Gets really clean holes, far better than mild steel or aluminum!
ObnoxiousFumes
Well-known member
He distinctly said “sawzaw” TWICE, I don’t think he is to be trusted...
What’s it made of? Short answer: It depends. It depends on who made the bed rail, and out of what material. Not being a smart a$$, let me explain.
I’ve had some that was easy to drill, some that was not easy to drill. Most of what I’ve scrounged could be drilled, I’ve had only a couple frames over the years that couldn’t. Some of it is in fact made from old railroad rail.
If you look at the link chign0n posted, the rail road rail yield strength JS Steel tested is 67,000 psi. A36, which is the spec for a lot (not all, but very common) structural steel. It has a yield strength of 36,000 psi minimum. I read years ago, that a lot of it is near 40,000 psi. The rail road track steel is almost double the strength of common A36.
Now let’s talk hardness. Looks like rail hardness ranges from 280 to 420 HB. (HB means Brinell scale). A36, one common structural steel has hardness of 119 to 162 HB. Railroad low end grade is almost double the high range of A36 structural steel.
railroadrails.com
www.theworldmaterial.com
So…..the bed frame made from railroad rail is almost twice as strong AND twice as hard as A36 common structural steel.
Here’s what I do:
I take any of it I can get for free then the first thing I do is try to drill a hole with a common drill bit that is easy to replace like 1/8”. If I can drill it easy, I keep it. If not, I keep it separated and scrap it.
I‘ve used more bedframe than I’ve scrapped over the years.
gearhead
I’ve had some that was easy to drill, some that was not easy to drill. Most of what I’ve scrounged could be drilled, I’ve had only a couple frames over the years that couldn’t. Some of it is in fact made from old railroad rail.
If you look at the link chign0n posted, the rail road rail yield strength JS Steel tested is 67,000 psi. A36, which is the spec for a lot (not all, but very common) structural steel. It has a yield strength of 36,000 psi minimum. I read years ago, that a lot of it is near 40,000 psi. The rail road track steel is almost double the strength of common A36.
Now let’s talk hardness. Looks like rail hardness ranges from 280 to 420 HB. (HB means Brinell scale). A36, one common structural steel has hardness of 119 to 162 HB. Railroad low end grade is almost double the high range of A36 structural steel.
What Is Railroad Metal Made Of And How Hard Is It?
Train track steel is mainly made of iron, carbon, and manganese. It is very tough and strong. Find out how hard is the railway track metal.
railroadrails.com
ASTM A36 Steel Properties, Modulus of Elasticity, Yield Strength, Material Density, Hardness & Equivalent
ASTM A36 steel is a widely used mild carbon steel, young's modulus of elasticity, properties, material density, yield strength, hardness, equivalent, pdf, tensile strength
www.theworldmaterial.com
So…..the bed frame made from railroad rail is almost twice as strong AND twice as hard as A36 common structural steel.
Here’s what I do:
I take any of it I can get for free then the first thing I do is try to drill a hole with a common drill bit that is easy to replace like 1/8”. If I can drill it easy, I keep it. If not, I keep it separated and scrap it.
I‘ve used more bedframe than I’ve scrapped over the years.
gearhead
I think I'm going to get me a hardness file kit to pack along w/my fish scale and tape measure any time I go to the scrap yard from now on.What’s it made of? Short answer: It depends. It depends on who made the bed rail, and out of what material. Not being a smart a$$, let me explain.
I’ve had some that was easy to drill, some that was not easy to drill. Most of what I’ve scrounged could be drilled, I’ve had only a couple frames over the years that couldn’t. Some of it is in fact made from old railroad rail.
If you look at the link chign0n posted, the rail road rail yield strength JS Steel tested is 67,000 psi. A36, which is the spec for a lot (not all, but very common) structural steel. It has a yield strength of 36,000 psi minimum. I read years ago, that a lot of it is near 40,000 psi. The rail road track steel is almost double the strength of common A36.
Now let’s talk hardness. Looks like rail hardness ranges from 280 to 420 HB. (HB means Brinell scale). A36, one common structural steel has hardness of 119 to 162 HB. Railroad low end grade is almost double the high range of A36 structural steel.
What Is Railroad Metal Made Of And How Hard Is It?
Train track steel is mainly made of iron, carbon, and manganese. It is very tough and strong. Find out how hard is the railway track metal.ASTM A36 Steel Properties, Modulus of Elasticity, Yield Strength, Material Density, Hardness & Equivalent
ASTM A36 steel is a widely used mild carbon steel, young's modulus of elasticity, properties, material density, yield strength, hardness, equivalent, pdf, tensile strength
So…..the bed frame made from railroad rail is almost twice as strong AND twice as hard as A36 common structural steel.
Here’s what I do:
I take any of it I can get for free then the first thing I do is try to drill a hole with a common drill bit that is easy to replace like 1/8”. If I can drill it easy, I keep it. If not, I keep it separated and scrap it.
I‘ve used more bedframe than I’ve scrapped over the years.
gearhead
I use bed frame angle for lots of projects . yes, tough to drill but for what I've used it for, it works .
Jim greengo
Well-known member
I've got welders,a torch and a bunch of different drills.
But I ain't got a punch for making holes! Hahaha