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Bob Heine

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Oct 24, 2009
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She used to "put herself down," at least in her own mind, when she described herself as a stay at home mom. I never knew she felt that way until the last several years,
Gary, Liane was a stay at home mom as well. I credit her with whatever success I had in my working life. Not having to leave work to pick up or drop off the children or give up night school and not get a degree. Tuck the kids in at night when I had to work late. Home cooked meals every morning noon and night.

The cost of the working world clothes, a nicer second car, babysitters and fast food or restaurant meals would have negated some of that extra money. The biggest benefit was knowing however our children turned out, it wasn't because they were latch key kids.

Together we spent less money than I made, even when that wasn't much. Because she didn't have a job outside the home we could travel and take vacations without synchronizing time off from two jobs. I was able to take an assignment in Australia and the option to retire at 50. There are nickels out there somewhere with very skinny buffaloes on them because Liane squeezed them so hard.. She didn't use every coupon there was but made sure she found the best deals for what we needed when shopping. When she found Boca Raton's thrift stores, we had clothes we wouldn't think of buying at the fancy department stores they came from. Boca Raton has a lot of wealthy people who pass away and their kids dump everything at the thrift stores. Some of the clothes dropped off still have the tags on them.

Our stay at home wives made everything we've done possible. Nothing in this world can match the value of what they've done.
 
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zmotorsports

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Problem is, a lot of people can't and even some that shouldn't.

What did the D60 come out of?

He told me it came out of a military truck, but he is building an early/mid-80's K30. We have a local company called Boyce Equipment that buys a ****-ton of military vehicles then strips them down and parts out. They mainly specialize in axles and transfer cases. You may have heard of them as they have advertised in off-road publications and on several off-road forums for a couple of decades now, they're only a few miles from where I live here in Northern Utah.

The gentleman told me he has the chassis nearly complete, the front axle is the last component he needs to have built. It's been painted and under the rolling chassis for a while, but just an empty housing while he built the engine and powertrain. It will be powered by a Gen VI big block, auto trans (he didn't tell me which model) and a NP205 TC. He is currently looking for a rust-free body and said he thinks his BIL found one in AZ that he is working on getting shipped up. Body will just be standard cab-longbed. I asked him his intentions and it doesn't sound like anything special or crazy, he said he just wants a nice clean driver.
 

OutlawDrifter

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Jan 20, 2015
Messages
3,898
Location
KS
Dana 60 probably came out of a M1008 or M1028/1031 (these variants had the trac-loc carrier).

We have a guy down here in KS that builds up the CUCVs, a lot of them stay in the military colors, but he has done a couple of civilian models with upgraded 6.5ltd's (vs the 6.2 they came with) that are pretty awesome, full AC, plush interior, etc.
 

mbryson

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Jan 4, 2014
Messages
133
Location
Bountiful, UT
Tough to beat a GM D60 if the low pinion and passenger drop work for you. Ford 60 is a better unit but is driver drop (unless you've done some work to it). Should be a stout pickup. I hope to see it around especially if it's who I think it is that's having you build it.

I've ran the GM D60 for 19+ years on my "Jeep" along with it's friend/mate the 14 bolt. I've ran from 37" Maxxis Creepy Crawler comp tires (really small 37"---probably about 35.75" tall or so) up to 40" MTR Kevlar (really big 40" tire that would measure out to 39.75" or so) through the years. Probably 6-7 sets of tires for whatever reason. I've run the Kevlar MTR in 40 and 38" for at least 10 years of the "Jeep", 38" being the bulk of those years. I'm currently running 39.5 BFG MT KM3 or whatever the MT is. I put those on about 4 years ago. "Jeep" has seen limited action since then due to transfer case issues and me buying a Gladiator on 38" tires. More testing of the D60 upcoming starting this summer as I get the "Jeep" back to "trailworthy" status :D. It's currently "dirt road" status but try not to use 4x4.

D60/14 bolt is the CUCV versions with the 4.56 gears. I run a Detroit in the rear and an Eaton E-locker (pre-release, early production version from when we were rock crawling competing--not necessarily a good thing as if/when it breaks, parts are not available) in the front. I run the stock 35 spline inners along with alloy 35 spline outer shafts in the D60. 14 bolt is just a 14 bolt. Parts readily available. Aside from the rock scrapes and such due to their physical size, both axles have been great for me. Enough that it's time to invest some dollars into 5.13 gears and swapping in a later model disc brake 14 bolt.

Chev D60 are available in '77-91 K and V series GM trucks along with the 1.25 ton military counterparts. The Dodge Dana 60 front is similar vintage but 2" narrower (I think on the long side if I remember correctly?) and parts between the GM and Dodge 60 (except the lockout hubs and shorter long side shaft) are pretty much the same or at least interchangeable. (fuzzy memory after 20-22 years from when I started putting my "Jeep" together)
 
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zmotorsports

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Gary, Liane was a stay at home mom as well. I credit her with whatever success I had in my working life. Not having to leave work to pick up or drop off the children or give up night school and not get a degree. Tuck the kids in at night when I had to work late. Home cooked meals every morning noon and night.

The cost of the working world clothes, a nicer second car, babysitters and fast food or restaurant meals would have negated some of that extra money. The biggest benefit was knowing however our children turned out, it wasn't because they were latch key kids.

Together we spent less money than I made, even when that wasn't much. Because she didn't have a job outside the home we could travel and take vacations without synchronizing time off from two jobs. I was able to take an assignment in Australia and the option to retire at 50. There are nickels out there somewhere with very skinny buffaloes on them because Liane squeezed them so hard.. She didn't use every coupon there was but made sure she found the best deals for what we needed when shopping. When she found Boca Raton's thrift stores, we had clothes we wouldn't think of buying at the fancy department stores they came from. Boca Raton has a lot of wealthy people who pass away and their kids dump everything at the thrift stores. Some of the clothes dropped off still have the tags on them.

Our stay at home wives made everything we've done possible. Nothing in this world can match the value of what they've done.

Awesome comments Bob, thank you for sharing.

Our wives often don't get the credit they so very much deserve, stay at home or not. I pray that I have never taken advantage of my wife, but I fear I that may not have been the case over our 35+ years of marriage.

We were in a slightly different position in our early years to have my wife stay home with our son because we were barely skimping by with two incomes, and we still didn't equal what many single household incomes were as we were both barely making above minimum wages at the time as neither of us had any college education, nor the opportunity at that particular time. Young & Dumb comes to mind because maybe we rushed into marriage a bit, but what we did have was a thirst and deep desire to better our situation, even if secondary education wasn't possible.

When we got pregnant it hit me hard as I wasn't expecting that quite so soon. But you know the old saying "life happens when you're busy making plans". Fortunately for us (I can say that now ;) ) but with us working different schedules for those first few years it really benefitted our situation, even though I absolutely despised working swing and graveyard shifts, but it helped us to juggle the necessities in those early years. It showed me that the Lord may have a path for us even though we can't see the forest for the trees sometimes. Fortunately, my MIL had a baby-sitting business out of her home, and she was able to watch our son for the few hours a day that my wife and I overlapped. My wife would drop him off and I would pick him up a few hours later.

As he got a little older and we both were on dayshift, I would go in very early in the morning so the wife could drop him off in the morning on her way to work, which allowed me to get off work in the early afternoon when I could pick him up, so it still worked out perfectly. My son being able to be watched by his grandmother for a few hours a day was also a big factor. Had we not had that option I don't know if I could have left him with a stranger or someone other than family anyways. We also bargain shopped everything we could, but it was tuff as I needed tools for both my day job as well as the side jobs I was doing. Sometimes I worried if the extra money I was making on the side was even worth it because of the tools I was purchasing along with the time spent in the shop, and then other times I brought home more money on side jobs than from my full-time job, so it was a mixed bag for a while. But at least I was home working and not away from my family. I could watch my son play in the backyard and have friends over, all while I was able to earn money on the side to better our situation. I remember those first couple of years we lived paycheck to paycheck and at times barely had enough money in our account to keep it open. I swore that is NOT how I wanted to live so we made sacrifices and adjustments as needed to crawl our way out of that pattern.

One thing about my wife though, she ALWAYS had us sit down to dinner as a family. She would arrive home from work, fix dinner, do laundry, etc. and then we'd sit down to a family meal and talk, EVERY night. Even when our son was in High School and college, we had family dinner together around the dinner table, now that it's just the wife and I we still do in fact. When he was very young, it would be dinner followed by night-time books read to him before putting him to bed, then I would usually head back out to the shop to work on whatever I had going on for side work. We never missed a parent teacher conference or a ball game, or even a practice. I remember on so many occasions of closing up the shop to take my son to ball practice, then back home to finish up what I was working on, sometimes until midnight or early morning hours, then back up and 4am to go to work and do it all over again. Many times my wife would meet us at the ball bark just as the game was starting but she never missed a game. Looking back life was so hectic then, but we tried to give our son every opportunity we could, most of which we never had. The only stipulation we had for our son was he could try anything, sport or music, but he had to see it through. NO quitting mid-way. If he committed to an extracurricular activity, he was to see it all the way through, period.

We didn't go out to eat much at all in those early years as my wife made home-cooked meals and we both took our lunches to work >95% of the time. We had a ritual that was our "indulgence" or "treat" if you will. We would go to a local burger stand a couple of Saturdays of the month in the afternoon. It was our Burger Bar run, and we would splurge a couple times a month to get a burger and shake. I still remember my son light up as he'd enjoy his milkshake sitting on the tailgate of our truck. I remember when my son was 12-years old and we were running late for something one night and I had called my son to tell him I'd just grab a burger or something on the way home for us to eat before we had to leave and we'd meet his mother there. I asked him what he wanted and if he just wanted me to grab a Big Mac or something like that? He asked what a Big Mac was. :headscrat I don't know why, but that really hit me at the time, here he was 12-years old and had never eaten fast food other than our Burger Bar outings a couple of times per month.

We were just reminiscing about that a few weeks ago when the kids were over for dinner and it's funny what we and our kids remember as they grow into adults and things that we may have felt bad for, turn out to be the things our children find the most endearing and memorable when looking back.

My wife feels guilty much of the time because she was not able to be a stay-at-home mother, but I try to tell her we were able to give our son many opportunities that he otherwise would not have had, his college education being one. My wife is very committed to her job and has worked herself into a very good position despite her lack of college education, so for that I am very proud of her. Neither my wife nor I have college educations, but we were insistent that our son would have the opportunity to attend college and get a valuable degree. I am proud of us for being able to send our son to college and graduate without that burden of debt to begin his life, but even more proud of my son's commitment and dedication to that education in which he acquired. I feel that through mine and my wife's sacrifices and diligence that maybe, even if in some small way, we were able to help pave the way for our son to have his wife be that stay-at-home mother that he was not able to have. My DIL is now able to be a stay-at-home mother to our grandson due to my son's excellent life choices between his college degree and landing his amazing job right out of college. I would just like to think that the wife and I maybe played a small part in that, as I don't think it would have been possible on a single income household.

Just thought I'd share the opposite side of your guy's experiences. Definitely NOT to take anything away, just to share a "different" path that I feel too, has some advantages. Life's paths are funny, we just have to figure them out as we go because life is a journey, not a destination and although many of us may have similar visions of where we want to end up, all our journeys begin and end in different places. I think the common goal for our visions is to lay out a plan early on and then work the plan the best we can. There will be obstacles and detours placed before us, but we adjust, and course correct as needed, but stay the course.

I very much appreciate the stories those of you share as I feel we all grow from them as well as really get to know one another and how our paths are similar, yet different.
 
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zmotorsports

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Dana 60 probably came out of a M1008 or M1028/1031 (these variants had the trac-loc carrier).

We have a guy down here in KS that builds up the CUCVs, a lot of them stay in the military colors, but he has done a couple of civilian models with upgraded 6.5ltd's (vs the 6.2 they came with) that are pretty awesome, full AC, plush interior, etc.

I'm not up to speed on the military nomenclature of their vehicles Marc, but listening to this gentleman talk about what he bought and then sold off it sounds like this could have been the same as you are talking about. He said the chassis he purchased came with the GM 6.2 diesel, TH400 trans and NP205 TC along with the D60/14-bolt axles. He also mentioned it had 4.56 gearing and some form of locker in the front which is why he sold the center section and brought to me to build with an open center and 4.10 gearing.


Tough to beat a GM D60 if the low pinion and passenger drop work for you. Ford 60 is a better unit but is driver drop (unless you've done some work to it). Should be a stout pickup. I hope to see it around especially if it's who I think it is that's having you build it.

Marc, this is the first job I have done for this gentleman, he was referred to me by another client I have done quite a lot of work for over the years. This gentleman lives in Clinton, so not sure if it is the same guy or not that you are referring to.
 

OutlawDrifter

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Jan 20, 2015
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Location
KS
One thing about my wife though, she ALWAYS had us sit down to dinner as a family. She would arrive home from work, fix dinner, do laundry, etc. and then we'd sit down to a family meal and talk, EVERY night.

While we don't get to do this every night, due to ballgames twice a week, and everything else going on...this is something that has always been very important to me. Dinner at the table with no distractions, and during this time, I've made it a point to teach my kids the table manners that my grandmother expected me to learn.

My wife has always wanted to stay home with the kids, but it just hasn't been in the cards. She is however a fantastic mother and wife, and for that I am grateful. She doesn't miss anything, and has always made sure the kids had what they needed for school/sports/whatever. When I was on the road with my last job, I was putting 125-135k miles per year in 3-4 states, so I lived out of a suitcase for 2-3 nights a week. I still don't like staying in hotels. She was able to navigate that with 4 kids and multiple activities...one of the many reasons I changed jobs 8+ years ago, I missed too much and was tired of being away. It was a hell of a pay cut, but worth it to be home every night.
 

OutlawDrifter

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I'm not up to speed on the military nomenclature of their vehicles Marc, but listening to this gentleman talk about what he bought and then sold off it sounds like this could have been the same as you are talking about. He said the chassis he purchased came with the GM 6.2 diesel, TH400 trans and NP205 TC along with the D60/14-bolt axles. He also mentioned it had 4.56 gearing and some form of locker in the front which is why he sold the center section and brought to me to build with an open center and 4.10 gearing.

Mike, the CUCV pickups are the perfect starting point for bulletproof. They are a 5/4t chassis with all the HD running gear included. The CUCV K5 Blazers still had the 10-bolt axles with I think 3.08 gears.

The cabs had zero sound deadening and were very basic, most had rifle racks for M16s in the corners of the cabs. If memory serves they are all 24v as well.
 
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zmotorsports

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Mike, the CUCV pickups are the perfect starting point for bulletproof. They are a 5/4t chassis with all the HD running gear included. The CUCV K5 Blazers still had the 10-bolt axles with I think 3.08 gears.

The cabs had zero sound deadening and were very basic, most had rifle racks for M16s in the corners of the cabs. If memory serves they are all 24v as well.

You're dropping more knowledge than I ever cared about learning there Marc. ;) I was never military vehicle guy. I liked things too shiny and pristine. :bounce: I do, however admire the sheer durability that was designed into them though. I'm also still very much an admirer of the square bodied GM's. If I ever get the chance, I think I'd build another one similar to the one I built before the wife and I got married, but even better because my skillset has improved slightly. :thumbup:
 

PhantomEB

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Medicine Hat, AB, Canuckistan
As for your post about your better halfs, I seem to be asked why do you stress about her finances……uhm yeah like shes the one who AGREED with me to move 3 hours away for a better job? Maybe those people should be asking themselves what have they done to deserve the right to ask me such a stupid question.

She’s the reason I have improved my drinking for the better, shes the reason I am gonna be buckling down and getting **** done and **** paid off!
 

XJSuperman

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Jan 26, 2018
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Location
Central Iowa
Mike, the CUCV pickups are the perfect starting point for bulletproof. They are a 5/4t chassis with all the HD running gear included. The CUCV K5 Blazers still had the 10-bolt axles with I think 3.08 gears.

The cabs had zero sound deadening and were very basic, most had rifle racks for M16s in the corners of the cabs. If memory serves they are all 24v as well.
Yep, can confirm. Many swap the d60/14bt into the M1009 blazers for an easy axle swap of beef and gears.
 

csp

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Franktown, CO
The Dodge Dana 60 front is similar vintage but 2" narrower (I think on the long side if I remember correctly?) and parts between the GM and Dodge 60 (except the lockout hubs and shorter long side shaft) are pretty much the same or at least interchangeable. (fuzzy memory after 20-22 years from when I started putting my "Jeep" together)
The biggest downside to the Dodge D60 is the studs that thread into the passenger side casting for retaining the leaf spring instead of Ubolts. I passed on a lot of them while looking for a D60 for my CJ5 many years ago.
 

bugnut

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Wow Mike Wow!! I love this, this sets you and others who do this apart from the rest. The bursar and I did likewise, for the 20 years that the kids were with us! It has paid great dividends. I think this is missing in many homes today. Wife and I plotted the week ahead , everyone knew what was on the docket and dinner was started by first arriving home. Expectations and communications, imagine!

One thing about my wife though, she ALWAYS had us sit down to dinner as a family. She would arrive home from work, fix dinner, do laundry, etc. and then we'd sit down to a family meal and talk, EVERY night. Even when our son was in High School and college, we had family dinner together around the dinner table, now that it's just the wife and I we still do in fact. When he was very young, it would be dinner followed by night-time books read to him before putting him to bed, then I would usually head back out to the shop to work on whatever I had going on for side work. We never missed a parent teacher conference or a ball game, or even a practice. I remember on so many occasions of closing up the shop to take my son to ball practice, then back home to finish up what I was working on, sometimes until midnight or early morning hours, then back up and 4am to go to work and do it all over again. Many times my wife would meet us at the ball bark just as the game was starting but she never missed a game. Looking back life was so hectic then, but we tried to give our son every opportunity we could, most of which we never had. The only stipulation we had for our son was he could try anything, sport or music, but he had to see it through. NO quitting mid-way. If he committed to an extracurricular activity, he was to see it all the way through, period.
 
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zmotorsports

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Wow Mike Wow!! I love this, this sets you and others who do this apart from the rest. The bursar and I did likewise, for the 20 years that the kids were with us! It has paid great dividends. I think this is missing in many homes today. Wife and I plotted the week ahead , everyone knew what was on the docket and dinner was started by first arriving home. Expectations and communications, imagine!

Thank you Joel. Sounds like you discovered a plan that works for you as well. I commend you. :thumbup:
 
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zmotorsports

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I hope everyone had a great weekend.

Friday night I was able to move the Dana 60 over to my work area and commence the cleaning and inspection of the components that were brought to me.

Everything laid out for easy workflow between the parts and axle assembly. Tools at the ready.
diff1.jpg

With the diff. cover removed, I immediately noticed some burrs on both the cover and the sealing surface of the axle that needed to be addressed.
diff2.jpg

I then turned my attention to the axle housing center section to remove the burrs before commencing the cleaning. I like to systematically go through things working on those items that will produce chips, dirt, debris, etc. before the final cleaning. And this housing was filthy inside. I think the gentleman sandblasted the exterior before painting and while it looks nice, I think he could have done a better job of sealing up the various openings prior to breaking out the sandblasting equipment. There was a LOT of debris inside of the housing that needed to be removed and cleaned.
diff3.jpg

With the burrs removed from the housing, I turned my attention to removing the pinion races to reveal the pinion shim stack as on this axle the pinion depth is shimmed using shims under the inner bearing race, rather than on the pinion itself between the inner bearing and gear.
diff4.jpg

I also drove the axle shaft seals out of the housing before final cleaning. Glad I did because the tubes were full of sand, grit and all kinds of **** that needed to be cleaned before I could even think about beginning assembly. I have found that using my 4' prybar with a slight angle on the end works fantastic to knock the seals out quickly and easily without risk of damaging the seals sealing surface in the axle tube. Simply stick the prybar in from either side, a couple smacks with the hammer 180-degrees apart and the seal is easily driven into the housing. Then cleaning can be performed.
diff5.jpg

With the housing pretty much prepped, I turned my attention to removal of the carrier bearings so I could measure the shim stack on either side and note the thicknesses. Although this carrier did not come out of this axle, it gives me a rough starting point. On the Dana 60 the shims are under the bearings and not outside of the bearing races like on a lot of axles. This adds a little time during setup but is minimized using setup bearings.
diff6.jpg

With the bearings and shims removed and noted, I noticed that the carrier came to me in a cardboard box, not wrapped in a plastic bag and there was a hint of dirt and debris on the inside of the carrier. Not wanting to risk debris getting into the freshly built gearset, I chose to completely disassemble the carrier's side gears and spider gears to perform a thorough cleaning and inspection. The center pin is held in place with a spring pin so short roll pin punch was used to start the pins removal.
diff7.jpg

Once I ran out of room with the shorter pin punch, I reached for my extended length punch to drive it out the remainder of the way. I don't like immediately going to the long punches as they can deform without the aid of the hole so I always begin driving shafts and roll pins out using the shortest drifts first before reaching for the extended length punches.
diff8.jpg

Roll pin removed.
diff9.jpg

Carrier is ready to disassemble and I have my notes along with all of the parts laid out.
diff11.jpg

That pretty much concluded Friday night's work. When the wife arrived home from work, we sat down to dinner and the kids came over for a visit so we were able to play with our grandson for a while.

Stay tuned for more pictures.
 
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zmotorsports

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Saturday morning we awoke to a wintery wonderland along the Wasatch Front. The night before the news said it would be mostly in the form of rain.

This doesn't look like rain to me. Not a ton of snow, but a good 2 inches and it was very wet and heavy. It didn't stop snowing until mid-morning, so I enjoyed a few cups of coffee, then when it quit snowing, I headed outside to clear the yard before heading into the shop.
diff14.jpg

diff15.jpg

With the front complete, I turned my attention to the backyard. It was already just starting to melt but I knew having a north facing property, if I didn't get it off the concrete it would just freeze.
diff16.jpg

After a couple of hours of clearing snow, I now felt like the last could have a chance to melt off.
diff17.jpg

Into the shop to pick up where I left off the night before.
diff11.jpg

Cleaning of the parts.
diff12.jpg

Housing all cleaned and fully disassembled.
diff13.jpg

By early afternoon I walked outside and found the concrete was melting off nicely.
diff18.jpg

diff19.jpg

diff20.jpg


Stay tuned for more pictures.
 
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zmotorsports

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Continuing on with work on the Dana 60 front axle.

Carrier components removed from the carrier and a quick inspection to ensure there was no damage to the teeth or bearings between the side gears and case nor the spiders and case. Everything looked good upon initial inspection, so the parts progressed to the parts washer for a thorough cleaning.
diff21.jpg

With parts soaking in the solvent tank, I checked the new ring and pinion for burrs or defects. Everything looked good.
diff22.jpg

With the housing fully cleaned, I dug out my setup bearings for this axle and made sure everything fit properly. Race ready to slide into the bore.
diff23.jpg

Snug fitment, but it slid in for mockup.
diff24.jpg

Carrier parts now being cleaned.
diff25.jpg

With the carrier parts cleaned and blown off, reassembly can begin.
diff26.jpg

Assembly lube used between all components.
diff27.jpg

diff28.jpg

diff29.jpg

With the side gears installed, the spider gears can be installed opposing one another by 180-degrees, then rotated into position to align with the cross shaft opening.
diff30.jpg

Stay tuned for one last set of pictures please.
 
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zmotorsports

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Continuing on.

The cross shaft can now be lubed and installed through the spider gears and bearings.
diff31.jpg

When it is nearly all the way through, make certain to align the roll pin hold to parallel the hole in the case.
diff32.jpg

Once fully installed, I like to double check the hole alignment before attempting to install the roll pin.
diff33.jpg

A little press lube on the roll pin before installing.
diff34.jpg

With the carrier assembled, I double checked the flatness of the ring gear's mating surface. All looked good, I didn't put any dings in it while handling it on the bench.
diff35.jpg

Ring gear installed and new bolts at the ready.
diff36.jpg

Over to the press to install ring gear bolts after some thread locker.
diff38.jpg

With the ring gear fully seated, I begin the torque sequence in a couple steps.
diff39.jpg

With the ring gear installed and carrier ready for mockup, I pressed the inner pinion bearing onto the pinion. The pinion depth shims are under the race for this axle, so the bearing can be installed once and for all at this point.
diff40.jpg

Stay tuned for a few more pictures.
 
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zmotorsports

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Last few pictures, I promise.

Carrier setup bearings and shims installed. The inner pinion setup race and shims ready and outer pinion setup bearing test fit onto the pinion.
diff41.jpg

Setup race and original shims installed in the housing.
diff42.jpg

Pinion installed and tightened to remove all clearance. It is slightly tight so I will have to make some adjustments to the pinion preload shim stack but for the first setup as long as there is no clearance, it will be fine for mockup and to get a feel for where components need to be moved to.
diff43.jpg

This axle was brought to me empty but with various components that did not come out of this housing so there will be a little more time to make sure everything fits perfectly to not only get the correct pinion placement and preload, but to ensure the carrier preload is correct seeing as how this carrier did not come from this housing. For the most part I have not seen much in terms of variation over the years from housing to housing, but it can happen so I don't like to assume anything and will check to ensure I get the correct carrier preload as we sneak up on the correct wear pattern through several mockup iterations.

Thanks for looking.
 
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Z

zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,477
Location
Northern Utah
@Just Fishing , Chris, I hadn't seen the video you mentioned as I don't subscribe to their channel, so I had to go google it and watch it.

I'm not going to lie, that was a hard video to watch. Granted, I know how I work is probably overkill as far as cleanliness of parts, methodically inspecting and laying parts out as well as properly torquing fasteners, but when they tore it apart and commented about removing most of the ring gear bolts by hand and THAT IS probably why it failed.... :headscrat ........then made the comment about how critical it is to get the proper carrier preload but yet they state that they can't get case spreader on the axle and proceeded to pry the shims out with pliers and screwdriver, then pound them back in, I had to cringe. They were correct in the fact that the case spreader won't fit, UNLESS you remove the drag link, tie rod and track bar, then it will. It takes an extra 15-minutes or so to gain access for the case spreader, but this is why I insist on using a case spreader, because in high torque applications the ring gear is being forced away from the pinion and if there isn't proper preload, the teeth will climb up to the thinnest and weakest point of the gear, the face.

When they opened the Conex box it looked like they stood at the doorway and just tossed parts in and slammed the door. :oops:

I'm not one to criticize people's work or knock someone down, but that was hard to watch, it made my head hurt in fact.

That being said, I know many people who slap gears in left and right and don't put much thought into them saying they are hard to screw up and some never have an issue, but I simply can't work that way. I was shocked when I saw 12k likes already and the video was only out a couple of days.

I have to ask how many people would feel comfortable paying approx. $2200-$2500 to have gears replaced in their vehicle if that was the environment?????? I sure as hell wouldn't.


But it does make my point about this short video that I posted on Saturday entitled Quality isn't expensive, it's priceless.
 

Just Fishing

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
57
Location
Utah
Oh here you go.


This is their newest creation, a Jeep JKU made into "Mini Mater".
Has JLU rear axle and JKU front.
Made from parts of other Jeeps in their lot, them preparing it for the recovery games this spring.

At first, I shed a tear watching them cut the JK up, but the final product is pretty neat out on the trails.
Jeeps picking up Jeeps and side by sides. (y)


I like to end my day watching these guys on my big tv, sometimes early morning viewing.
Lots of stuff learned about winching and recovery, and how badly one can abuse synthetic winch line and get away with it. :LOL:
 

Just Fishing

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
57
Location
Utah
@Just Fishing , Chris, I hadn't seen the video you mentioned as I don't subscribe to their channel, so I had to go google it and watch it.

I'm not going to lie, that was a hard video to watch. Granted, I know how I work is probably overkill as far as cleanliness of parts, methodically inspecting and laying parts out as well as properly torquing fasteners, but when they tore it apart and commented about removing most of the ring gear bolts by hand and THAT IS probably why it failed.... :headscrat ........then made the comment about how critical it is to get the proper carrier preload but yet they state that they can't get case spreader on the axle and proceeded to pry the shims out with pliers and screwdriver, then pound them back in, I had to cringe. They were correct in the fact that the case spreader won't fit, UNLESS you remove the drag link, tie rod and track bar, then it will. It takes an extra 15-minutes or so to gain access for the case spreader, but this is why I insist on using a case spreader, because in high torque applications the ring gear is being forced away from the pinion and if there isn't proper preload, the teeth will climb up to the thinnest and weakest point of the gear, the face.

When they opened the Conex box it looked like they stood at the doorway and just tossed parts in and slammed the door. :oops:

I'm not one to criticize people's work or knock someone down, but that was hard to watch, it made my head hurt in fact.

That being said, I know many people who slap gears in left and right and don't put much thought into them saying they are hard to screw up and some never have an issue, but I simply can't work that way. I was shocked when I saw 12k likes already and the video was only out a couple of days.

I have to ask how many people would feel comfortable paying approx. $2200-$2500 to have gears replaced in their vehicle if that was the environment?????? I sure as hell wouldn't.


But it does make my point about this short video that I posted on Saturday entitled Quality isn't expensive, it's priceless.


My thoughts exactly, dirty shop, dirty hands, etc.
This install felt more of a "Damnit let's get it over with!"
The end where they are "Breaking in" the gearing made me cringe, but i felt like that's what they were going for. :ROFLMAO:
 

olsenmotorsports

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
764
Location
Chicago, IL
Oh here you go.


This is their newest creation, a Jeep JKU made into "Mini Mater".
Has JLU rear axle and JKU front.
Made from parts of other Jeeps in their lot, them preparing it for the recovery games this spring.

At first, I shed a tear watching them cut the JK up, but the final product is pretty neat out on the trails.
Jeeps picking up Jeeps and side by sides. (y)


I like to end my day watching these guys on my big tv, sometimes early morning viewing.
Lots of stuff learned about winching and recovery, and how badly one can abuse synthetic winch line and get away with it. :LOL:

What a mess that shop is omg.
 
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Z

zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,477
Location
Northern Utah
My favourite procedure when I arrive at the shop in the mornings, approximately 5am. Is to start my computer to come here and enjoy the latest updates from Mike's Overkill Is Underrated shop.

Exactly ALL kinds of awesome.

You are too kind Anders. Thank you very much for your continued support. I feel as though we are kindred spirits only separated by a large pond. :bounce:
 
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zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,477
Location
Northern Utah
My son stopped by after work to use the shop's bandsaw and drill press for a home project of his. It was nice to spend a few minutes BS'ing with him.

I then turned my attention back to the Dana 60 axle.

I started by opening up the case about .020" to install the carrier.
diff44.jpg

Then as I set the carrier into place, I discovered I had over .022" of backlash and an odd looking pattern. I stood back for a second to take stock of what I was looking at and why. Granted, the housing was brought to me unloaded and without the original ring and pinion, but I did remove the pinion race and measure the original shims it was set up with as well as the carrier bearing shims so I gathered my thoughts before moving on as something just didn't seem right to be off by that much. A few thou here and there from carrier to carrier and manufacturer to manufacturer but not this much.
diff45.jpg

DOH! I then dug through the parts the client brought me and I discovered the inner slinger was still in a bag with part number stamped on it. I guess when unpackaging the parts I put covered the slinger from view slightly and forgot to install it on the pinion. You guys make me out to be infallible, but I am perfectly capable to F**K up once in a while I guess. :rolleyes:
diff47.jpg

Okay, now that all the parts are accounted for and in place that is looking a bit closer. Not good enough, but much closer.
diff46.jpg

Also, just as I'm checking pinion depths and adjusting for the pinion shims, I am also sneaking up on the pinion preload as this is a shimmed pinion and does not use a crush sleeve. This is my preferred method in fact, but it does take a bit more time to get the pinion preload (PPL) correct vs. a crush sleeve. I was sneaking up on it adjusting shims and landed where I was quite pleased @ 25 in/lbs. of pinion rotating torque. Specs. for the Dana 60 are 17-30 in/lbs. of rotating torque and 25 is right where I want to be.

Just before closing up the shop, I thought I'd release the case pressure and see where I was at for carrier preload by checking the combined preload (CPL). It is actually a bit tight for my liking as it added another 10 in/lbs. of rotating torque. I think as I am sneaking up on the final clearances tonight, I may remove a few thousandths from the carrier to drop that about 3-5 in/lbs. That carrier is just a little too tight for me. This is the opposite of what I generally find, most of the time I end up adding a few thou. to add carrier preload.



Thanks for looking.
 
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Z

zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,477
Location
Northern Utah
@Blackbyrd made a comment in his thread about dreaming of a shop and dream cars, then realizing he had been chasing the dream for so long he didn't realize he'd been living it.

I have had the EXACT feeling over the past few days and even had that same conversation with my son last night.

Saturday, after clearing the yard of the snow that had fallen, I finally walked into the nice warm shop with coffee in hand and radio playing in the background and as I was taking my jacket off and putting my apron on, I thought to myself how much of my dream has come true. So much in fact, that many days I feel as though my actual life has exceeded my dreams of having a nice home, shop and vehicles in which to enjoy with my wife and family.

I also mentioned earlier this morning in @olsenmotorsports thread about sometimes dreams materialize right in front of you when you least expect it.

I too have been feeling a nostalgic over the past week or so as I am working in my shop and realize just how blessed I am from the environment in which I first started working in. My son told me I should tell people what I started with compared to what I have now, but to some extent, I don't think my story is any different than many others on this forum.

Chris, @Just Fishing yesterday mentioned a YouTube video where gears were being replaced and even watching that video, my work space wasn't that horrific when I was working outside on my parent's farm. I told my son, that even when I was crawling around under vehicles in the dirt, I kept my tools and parts clean and organized. Yes, it was much more work and problematic to do so, but even in less than ideal environments, we can still control how we perform the work and to what standards we do so.

My son for the most part knows no different than working in a clean and "somewhat" organized shop as he was very, very young when we built our shop at our last home. All of his childhood took place with that shop in the backyard and it didn't matter whether we were building a race car, snowmobile, drag quad, sandrail or pinewood derby car or go-cart, he had a controlled environment in which to work in. I think he appreciates this, but I don't think quite as much as those of us who know it was it was like not having our work areas.

@Blackbyrd also commented about having his dream cars in his dream shop. That too I can very much relate to. So much in fact that as my son and I were talking last night, he was asking about our upcoming retirement and plans afterwards. Granted retirement is still several years away, but it will be here before we know it. For so many years mine and my wife's goal was to upgrade coaches one more time before retirement to something a bit nicer and newer. We have been looking over the past several years but only recently finally had the epiphany that we already have something pretty damn nice to travel in so why do we keep looking for something else? Especially when I feel the quality has dropped quite a bit over the past several years and the fact that we already have sitting in our shop what I feel is the "sweet spot" of the RV building years, makes and models. We have always been a family of being appreciative of what we have and although we set our sights on the next thing, we have never not enjoyed what we have, nor have we been those that think we need to keep up with the Joneses.

After my son left, I walked around the shop just thinking about how far I had come from working in the dirt on my parent's farm and as I looked around the shop, the coach in the next bay and our Fifth Gen Camaro sitting there, it hit me that we are living the American Dream. Those people that told us 30+ years ago to set your sights on what you want your life to look like, then devise a plan and follow the plan, were right. A 35+ year career, raising a family and looking down the barrel of retirement sneaks up on a person quicker than they realize. When I was told all those years ago by my mentor that I too could have a life like his, I didn't think it was possible. I couldn't imagine what 30+ years into the future would look like, but the wife and I talked a LOT about what we wanted out of life and had short term goals supporting long term goals. Now looking back I'm astounded at just how powerful our minds can be once we set them on something. Those that think they can never have something, guess what, they won't. Those that can visualize what they want and then work towards it, can make it happen. There will be setbacks and detours for certain, but keeping your eye on the end goal is the key and not doubting your abilities to achieve your dream.

Thank you for those of you who have made comments about your lives and shared past memories and experiences as I feel many of us can echo your experiences in our own lives.
 

mbryson

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
133
Location
Bountiful, UT
@Blackbyrd made a comment in his thread about dreaming of a shop and dream cars, then realizing he had been chasing the dream for so long he didn't realize he'd been living it.

I have had the EXACT feeling over the past few days and even had that same conversation with my son last night.

Saturday, after clearing the yard of the snow that had fallen, I finally walked into the nice warm shop with coffee in hand and radio playing in the background and as I was taking my jacket off and putting my apron on, I thought to myself how much of my dream has come true. So much in fact, that many days I feel as though my actual life has exceeded my dreams of having a nice home, shop and vehicles in which to enjoy with my wife and family.

I also mentioned earlier this morning in @olsenmotorsports thread about sometimes dreams materialize right in front of you when you least expect it.

I too have been feeling a nostalgic over the past week or so as I am working in my shop and realize just how blessed I am from the environment in which I first started working in. My son told me I should tell people what I started with compared to what I have now, but to some extent, I don't think my story is any different than many others on this forum.

Chris, @Just Fishing yesterday mentioned a YouTube video where gears were being replaced and even watching that video, my work space wasn't that horrific when I was working outside on my parent's farm. I told my son, that even when I was crawling around under vehicles in the dirt, I kept my tools and parts clean and organized. Yes, it was much more work and problematic to do so, but even in less than ideal environments, we can still control how we perform the work and to what standards we do so.

My son for the most part knows no different than working in a clean and "somewhat" organized shop as he was very, very young when we built our shop at our last home. All of his childhood took place with that shop in the backyard and it didn't matter whether we were building a race car, snowmobile, drag quad, sandrail or pinewood derby car or go-cart, he had a controlled environment in which to work in. I think he appreciates this, but I don't think quite as much as those of us who know it was it was like not having our work areas.

@Blackbyrd also commented about having his dream cars in his dream shop. That too I can very much relate to. So much in fact that as my son and I were talking last night, he was asking about our upcoming retirement and plans afterwards. Granted retirement is still several years away, but it will be here before we know it. For so many years mine and my wife's goal was to upgrade coaches one more time before retirement to something a bit nicer and newer. We have been looking over the past several years but only recently finally had the epiphany that we already have something pretty damn nice to travel in so why do we keep looking for something else? Especially when I feel the quality has dropped quite a bit over the past several years and the fact that we already have sitting in our shop what I feel is the "sweet spot" of the RV building years, makes and models. We have always been a family of being appreciative of what we have and although we set our sights on the next thing, we have never not enjoyed what we have, nor have we been those that think we need to keep up with the Joneses.

After my son left, I walked around the shop just thinking about how far I had come from working in the dirt on my parent's farm and as I looked around the shop, the coach in the next bay and our Fifth Gen Camaro sitting there, it hit me that we are living the American Dream. Those people that told us 30+ years ago to set your sights on what you want your life to look like, then devise a plan and follow the plan, were right. A 35+ year career, raising a family and looking down the barrel of retirement sneaks up on a person quicker than they realize. When I was told all those years ago by my mentor that I too could have a life like his, I didn't think it was possible. I couldn't imagine what 30+ years into the future would look like, but the wife and I talked a LOT about what we wanted out of life and had short term goals supporting long term goals. Now looking back I'm astounded at just how powerful our minds can be once we set them on something. Those that think they can never have something, guess what, they won't. Those that can visualize what they want and then work towards it, can make it happen. There will be setbacks and detours for certain, but keeping your eye on the end goal is the key and not doubting your abilities to achieve your dream.

Thank you for those of you who have made comments about your lives and shared past memories and experiences as I feel many of us can echo your experiences in our own lives.


Great observations! I think it VERY WISE to look around at what we do have and appreciate our abundance. Most of us here have something are on the way to having "something". That doesn't mean we quit working but a good re-evaluation is never a bad thing to do. I feel VERY fortunate to have what I have. I have worked for it and will still keep refining things but I'm in a great place for what I have aspired to as a kid growing up in the 70s-80's. I still have a ways to go but on the path and nearing the "success" mark. I expect to "retire" in approx 10-12 years. I will not "retire" but I'll take a break from the high pressure gig I have and go punch a clock at Lowe's, a local tire store, golf course or similar where I can just enjoy going to work.
 
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Z

zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,477
Location
Northern Utah
If I could expand on the above post for the younger generation that we have with us on this forum. It may be hard to hear someone spewing words of gratitude for a full life, how to achieve said life and thinking it doesn't apply to you or that won't work in your situation. I would like to offer a bit of advice that may be of benefit. This is advice I got early in my career, and I followed some of it, but some was shrugged off as irrelevant or didn't apply. As I look back now, I realize that it was all very relevant and impactful to not only my career, but my life overall, especially quality of life and I'm not talking solely monetarily. A few years into my career, I was having doubts about my progression and money was very tight, as I am sure it is for many, especially younger people just starting out at in their career. My mentor could see me struggling with certain aspects of paying one's way through life and as I was wanting to work more and more overtime for the money, he pulled me aside one day and laid a bit of wisdom on me. He told me to do the job because I had a thirst for knowledge and not just for the money, then later the money would come. But if I were to seek certain jobs or project solely for the money, I would struggle and continue to struggle through them because with that mindset I was just going through the motions.


I had a conversation with a young man this morning pertaining to his mindset about some work issues. I requested that he not look at his work as a job, but as a career and in doing so to be actively engaged in that. By being actively engaged I mean seeking to learn and develop his skillset and knowledge base, or for lack of better term, continuous improvement.

I expressed my desire to see him progress in his knowledge by working to improve by using the Four C's. Condition, Cause, Correct and Confirm.

What is the Condition? What is going on, not merely the complaint.

What is the Cause? Define the problem or issue. Look at the sequence of events or the criteria required for a code to set for example, then work backwards to find where the sequence of operation or what specifically is taking place to set the code.

Correct the issue. Once the cause is accurately defined, work to correct the problem. This can be either replacing a "known" failed part once the diagnosis has been completed, correct a wiring issue, replace bearing, etc. This step is the actual repair.

Confirm the repair. Once the repair has been completed, confirm it has been properly repaired by trying to repeat the condition explained in step one. Go through the criteria and make sure the problem no longer exists. If it is repaired, then turn it loose. IF the problem still exists, go back to the beginning and make sure you properly identified the condition and what was causing it.

But more importantly, learn from this experience. Don't just go through the motions of doing "work". Be actively engaged in the process with the outcome to be more than just getting through the day and putting your time in.

He asked how I got to this point in my life and then the conversation took a turn to me wanting him to be successful and to define his goals in life. Then each day we are presented with opportunities to make decisions. As we are weighing the options to those various decisions, look at the end goal we set for ourselves, and then make those choices that will support that end goal.

I explained that I also use the Four C's in my personal life, not just working on things. I used an example of having an issue with the wife. What is the issue, ie. Condition? What are we disagreeing on? Then what is the Cause? Did I say something opposing our goals? Did I make an erroneous comment? Once I figured out what I did or the condition was, take steps to remedy the situation. Then confirm, did that correct the issue? If not, go back to the beginning.

Once we get used to looking at things we can control, we don't look at outside influences in the same light and accept the fact that we may not be able to control everything around us, but we can control how we react or how we deal with certain conditions. This was a turning point for me in my early years because I realized I was not merely a passenger in life, that I actually had my hand on the rudder steering my life.

Then I shared this quote with him as I explained that the more he makes these choices consciously, the more he will learn to do it subconsciously without having to think about it and he will become successful, not only in his career, but in life...

"Success comes not from what you do occasionally, but from what you do consistently."

I don't know if that helps or not, they may just be more words, but there are bits of advice that I wish I would have taken to heart sooner in life rather than later. Hopefully these words can be of value to someone at some point in their life.
 
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Z

zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,477
Location
Northern Utah
Great observations! I think it VERY WISE to look around at what we do have and appreciate our abundance. Most of us here have something are on the way to having "something". That doesn't mean we quit working but a good re-evaluation is never a bad thing to do. I feel VERY fortunate to have what I have. I have worked for it and will still keep refining things but I'm in a great place for what I have aspired to as a kid growing up in the 70s-80's. I still have a ways to go but on the path and nearing the "success" mark. I expect to "retire" in approx 10-12 years. I will not "retire" but I'll take a break from the high pressure gig I have and go punch a clock at Lowe's, a local tire store, golf course or similar where I can just enjoy going to work.

Great comments Marc. I know most all of us are working towards similar goals in life, at least the retirement goal or getting out of the "rat race", so any advice we can share along the way is meant to help. I like the attitude of gratitude approach while seeking continuous improvement.
 

PugetDude

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
22,477
Location
Superstition Mountains, AZ
This forum of like-minded people is just flat out awesome.

I arrived home yesterday to find a "care package" awaiting from a fellow GJ member. What a nice surprise I found inside. A few arbors and a couple dozen or so end mills and reamers for my collection of tools to put to work.

Thanks Scott.
care.jpg
Well, you did mention that you needed a 9/16" reamer... . I'm more of a drill a 5/8" hole instead kinda guy. 🤣
Wait... So are you telling me a step drill isn't really a reamer? 🤔
 
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