Electric heat suggestions for high ceiling pole barn

[thurgau]

Hey all, looking for suggestions for heating (electric) a pole barn with 19' ceilings.

The main shop space is 30x40. There is a storage mezzanine in the last 15' of the 40' depth wall. So a 30x25 space with 19' ceilings and a 30x15 space with 10' below and 8' above the mezzanine.

Current plan is to save the cost of running gas and install some solar panels to help offset the cost of electric heat.

Insulation- will have R-21 in walls and R-49 in attic space.

Location- Western Colorado, temps in the teens is fairly common in winter and drops to single digits and a bit below at night on occasion.

Usage- Not frequent use in the winter. But hope to be able to heat things up for occasional use of shop space and workout space. Primary space used will be under the mezzanine.

Complicating factor- there is a connecting tractor garage space with a 4 foot opening that opens up to 17x22 space with 15' ceiling sloping down to 8'.

Current thought- I'm thinking about installing electric infrared radiant on the ceiling under the mezzanine because that is where the work bench and workout area will be located. Also planning to install an electric unit heater in the high ceiling area to occasionally heat the entire space.

I have been told mini splits don't make much sense due to the ceiling space or are otherwise cost prohibitive to get the necessary BTUs.

Would greatly appreciate thoughts, ideas, heater recommendations, etc.

 

[pcmeiners]

If you do not use minisplits or geothermal heat pumps your heating or cooling KW usage will be approximately 350% to 450% more with any other type of electric heating....basically increasing your initial solar installation size/cost . There are no electric type or brand heater more efficient than any other, radiant or resistance.

 

[Bert_]

Underground poly gas pipe is cheap, not that much cost to save. If you have gas available.

 

[Citation]

I agree that in terms of efficiency electric heat is all about the same other than if you can be more selective about where you heat it can make a difference. I think the radiant heat is a good idea as it will focus the heat on the area you work in and will tend to make the things you touch (assuming they are in line with the heater) warmer. My wife's car has a heated steering wheel. It's amazing at how much warmer that makes you feel.

If you have a limited area where you work you might see if you could put up something like welding curtains so you only have to heat a smaller area in the shop.

 

[PCustoms]

That's a huge space.

The expense of installing a solar array and electric heat (even the cheapest install cost option) will be orders of magnitude greater then running some gas.

Can you have a tank installed at the barn?

 

[thurgau]

Appreciate the thoughts. I do have NG available and I am waiting on a quote. Was hoping to go all electric but sounds like that may not work as I hoped without significant usage cost.

If anybody has found success heating a space like this with electric options would love to hear about it. I was hoping the insulation level may offset concerns re: cubic feet with my tall ceilings.

 

[pembol]

Minisplits are not really that expensive any more, and you can install a few of them with their heads strategically located to focus the heat on the spaces you need. If you are thinking about solar to offset the energy for heating, then definitely consider minisplits as you would need 1/2 to 1/3 the solar capacity you would need with resistive heat.

 

[AC-WC]

If you're looking to heat on an as needed basis gas or radiant gas is the way to go.

When I looked at geo for the house I could not justify the expense compared to propane. Payoff was 20 yrs and you still have wear and tear on the geo pump i.e. spend another $5-10 for repair/replacement. If you plan to heat/cool 24/7 then mini split is an option.

 

[PoorUB]

Appreciate the thoughts. I do have NG available and I am waiting on a quote. Was hoping to go all electric but sounds like that may not work as I hoped without significant usage cost.

If anybody has found success heating a space like this with electric options would love to hear about it. I was hoping the insulation level may offset concerns re: cubic feet with my tall ceilings.

If your two choices are natural gas, or electric there is no question, go with natural gas.

Right now, in my area, heating with straight electric would be 4 times as much as gas and a 80% heater. So if it costs you $400 a month on electric it would be about $100 on gas.

 

[Citation]

I think my father's workshop is about the same dims (google maps estimates it at 30x45ft but I don't think the ceiling height is as tall. Anyway, he used to use (still does?) propane for heat but a few years back installed a traditional split heat pump (I suspect for the AC). The duct work is very simple and sits in the exposed rafters (pole barn construction). So long as you don't let the place get too cold it works just about year round. In the coldest days he uses an 240 electric heater plugged into the welder outlet. He doesn't like to do that much. So if you keep the place heated most of the time a heat pump (minisplit or traditional) is probably fine.

 

[thurgau]

Thanks for the responses. Very helpful.

Another question re: mini splits. I have had many tell me that my 19 foot ceilings make mini splits impractical, even with good insulation.

Anyone seen mini splits used successfully in a cold climate with such high ceilings? Thoughts on BTUs necessary. Due to install cost in my area, I probably wouldn't go the mini split route unless it was DIY.

 

[Bert_]

Thanks for the responses. Very helpful.

Another question re: mini splits. I have had many tell me that my 19 foot ceilings make mini splits impractical, even with good insulation.

Anyone seen mini splits used successfully in a cold climate with such high ceilings? Thoughts on BTUs necessary. Due to install cost in my area, I probably wouldn't go the mini split route unless it was DIY.

Btu's are btu's. If you keep it heated 30,000 would do it. That number is very obtainable from a heat pump.

If you let the shed get down to 15 or 20* it's going to take several days to warm up or you get a bigger heater. 60,000 or more would be an expensive heat pump.

I wouldn't put a mini split in a shop just because of the nightmare trying to keep it clean.

 

[ericm]

I have been told mini splits don't make much sense due to the ceiling space or are otherwise cost prohibitive to get the necessary BTUs.

You can do your own Manual J to see what btus are needed: loadcalc.net Make sure to fill in all the fields that look appropriate or your answer may be off. Then there's another calc using that data to size the equipment. If you are in the mountains your elevation may be very different from the elevation of the app's nearest weather data so you may need to fudge the inputs some.

With that high a ceiling you'll probably want fans to circulate the hot air from the ceiling down to where you are.

If keeping minisplits clean is a problem you can build racks for 3-4 furnace filters to filter the intake air. With enough filter area the pressure drop across the filter should be small enough to not affect the head unit.

 

[PoorUB]

Mini splits would do it, with a couple good ceiling fans to keep the air stirred up.

You will want ceiling fans any way with a 19 foot ceiling. All the warm air goes up and stays there no matter the heat source.

 

[Bert_]

Gas tube heater would be my choice if you are willing to run the gas line. Really wouldn't even need ceiling fans with it

 

[Yankeefarmer]

I'm heating 26x48x15 with a cold-capable heat pump with minimal ductwork. If you search this forum HVAC forum for my posts you'll see more details. If we had nat gas I would have gone that way, but our place is too rural for that. I'm completely satisfied with my system that I self-installed 4 years ago for under$5k.