Above 1200 Sq/FT Freshy Fresh - Mountain High Workshop and Storage: 48x30

[badonk]

Work continues. We finished the shop framing this week and were supposed to start the sheathing but today it started dumping snow so that’s waiting until this system pushes through.

Now is time to move my camera as there won’t be much to see after the workshop sheathing is done. Weather permitting the roofing dry in should happen the week Feb 24 with windows/doors over the following two weeks. And of course rough-ins starting soon - I think HVAC ducting is first up.

 

[GlennSullivan]

I continue to be amazed with the progress in such crappy weather. There is a lesson here for every contractor that operates in northern climates.

 

[csp]

And of course rough-ins starting soon - I think HVAC ducting is first up.

If at all possible get your electricians in and have them install their electrical boxes. This works well to prevent HVAC and plumbing from being routed in places that make it difficult to run the electrical according to plan. I'm sure there's an MEP plan that shows locations, but the other trades don't always pay enough attention.

 

[Nolift911]

I would get up there and start shoveling - its good cardio.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

I continue to be amazed with the progress in such crappy weather. There is a lesson here for every contractor that operates in northern climates.

Down here in the south, I can't get them to show up to work on my project if it is below 35 degrees for any outside work. Extremely frustrating.

 

[badonk]

Down here in the south, I can't get them to show up to work on my project if it is below 35 degrees and for any outside work. Extremely frustrating.

Well they were working yesterday and are out there today even though we clearly had more snow over the long weekend. Progress is understandably slower.

 

[Xti04]

Its impressive they work in that. The interior trades guys might show up on a day like that but framers and roofers around here would be sleepin in. But I guess if the weathers like that half the year you gotta get after it so you can get paid.

 

[badonk]

Its impressive they work in that. The interior trades guys might show up on a day like that but framers and roofers around here would be sleepin in. But I guess if the weathers like that half the year you gotta get after it so you can get paid.

Agree completely. For most of the framing process we even had 2 crews which helped move things along faster. Most people break ground in the spring and this work is done over the summer. I had some permitting issues that had to be resolved which delayed the start until September. There were some additional costs for snow clearing and heating while we worked through the weather. The air compressors and tools don't like the cold either so keeping those at a reasonable temp was necessary.

I'm headed up on Friday to walk around, possibly move the camera, then hit the local ski hill for some turns. They've had 3 feet in the last 3 days plus more snow expected tomorrow. Could be epic.

 

[Xti04]

Agree completely. For most of the framing process we even had 2 crews which helped move things along faster. Most people break ground in the spring and this work is done over the summer. I had some permitting issues that had to be resolved which delayed the start until September. There were some additional costs for snow clearing and heating while we worked through the weather. The air compressors and tools don't like the cold either so keeping those at a reasonable temp was necessary.

I'm headed up on Friday to walk around, possibly move the camera, then hit the local ski hill for some turns. They've had 3 feet in the last 3 days plus more snow expected tomorrow. Could be epic.

Love the sound of that! What slope are you near? I hope to get back out to Colorado again, one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen.

 

[badonk]

Winter park is a 20 minute drive from the house. It is one of my favorite ski areas in Colorado. Sure they've had some of the corporate partners over the years that brought investment into basic infrastructure like high speed lifts, mountain base amenities and lodging, etc. But it is one of the few, maybe the only major resort in Colorado that still has free parking with easy walking to the lifts. They have a great mix of terrain. Big open bowls. Back country style terrain. Great trees. Plenty of bumps. And of course groomers. Plus a minimal amount of time on I-70 to get there and back home.

 

[LaneRover]

For now I'm just driving it an enjoying it as is. Snow tires installed and it's a beast. Last winter I went out with the Porsche and Audi clubs to do some ice driving...highly recommend if you can find a place.

Ice driving is super fun, even if it's in a Chevy Citation with all season tires. The last time I did it was in New Hampshire in the late 80's. It was not an officially sanctioned event ;-)

 

[badonk]

Things were looking pretty good inside the shop with just a little snow. A few days later the rest of the roof went on and we’re about to dry everything in. There won’t be much visible progress from the outside for a while as the framing is just about done and the different contractors get to work on rough ins. While I’m still probably a year away from finishing and moving in, I need to reach out to insurance agents to find out what might be required for insurance and ensure (hah) that we are prepared with the right systems. From a code perspective I have to install a fire suppression system with sprinklers in the ceiling, etc. I’m not sure if that’s required in the shop as it is permitted separately and probably not held to the same standard as a dwelling/place to live. I’ll have to talk to my builder a bit more about that. I’m also told some insurers will want smoke detectors that tie into an alarm system and notify the fire department when they go off. And some want pretty comprehensive alarm systems looking after the house when I’m not around with door and motion sensors. We’ll see…

Last weekend I went to move the camera but that’s not going to happen without snow shoes. And without much visible progress outside to capture I’m debating the value of the camera going forward. I might point it away from the house and turn it back into a wildlife spotting camera. TBD…

Inside framing looking great! The plan is to have the garage doors follow the ceiling line to give lift clearance. Min height is 11'4" with max at 16'4". The larger garage door is 16' wide and the single door is 9'.


Fake chimney…no fireplace in the shop.


Fast mover last night

 

[moab11]

Looking good!
9' wide doors can feel really tight for fullsize vehicles, and especially trailers. If you can go 10' it would be much better.

I'm surprised you would need a sprinkler system in the house, only ever really see those on commercial buildings. As for the Smoke detectors and alarm stuff, you can always wire for it all now, then decide whether you want to hook it up later. Same goes for security cameras.

 

[badonk]

Looking good!
9' wide doors can feel really tight for fullsize vehicles, and especially trailers. If you can go 10' it would be much better.

I'm surprised you would need a sprinkler system in the house, only ever really see those on commercial buildings. As for the Smoke detectors and alarm stuff, you can always wire for it all now, then decide whether you want to hook it up later. Same goes for security cameras.

It may actually be a 10' door. I'll have to double check with my builder. I think the original spec was 9' (which is what the plans say) but my builder agreed to widen it for exactly the reason you raise. Simple change he said as we were framing it and just need to order a larger door.

 

[moab11]

Sounds good! I am one of the unfortunate ones with 9' wide doors(bought the house/garage that way) and know first hand how narrow they are.

 

[Bob Heine]

Sounds good! I am one of the unfortunate ones with 9' wide doors(bought the house/garage that way) and know first hand how narrow they are.

@moab11, I was so thrilled to find an affordable house with a 3-car garage I learned to be real careful moving vehicles through the openings. All three single doors are 8' (nominal) but the openings (with the smallest perimeter seal I could find) is actually 7'9". I would eventually get carried away and drive right through the back wall of the garage if I had 9' openings.

 

[Xti04]

When I built my shop I went with 12ft wide doors. Backing in a trailer or moving large items is much easier and considering I back my boat in there 3-4 times a week in the summer, having a bit of space on each side is nice. For a shop for just car storage / parking use 9 ft would be my minimum.

 

[Geoff289]

@moab11, I was so thrilled to find an affordable house with a 3-car garage I learned to be real careful moving vehicles through the openings. All three single doors are 8' (nominal) but the openings (with the smallest perimeter seal I could find) is actually 7'9". I would eventually get carried away and drive right through the back wall of the garage if I had 9' openings.

Bob, the other issue with garage door openings is the plethora of sensors and "humans need to be protected from themselves" gizmos that modern cars come with. My garage doors are 16' and 8' wide respectively.



The planting on the right of the single door and between the two doors play havoc with both the Golf and BMW and have to be kept under much greater pruning control than the Golf owner/head gardener would prefer. When I got the Bimmer it frightened the life out of me a few times with the emergency braking violently activating as I was trying to reverse out just because a stray frond from the flora set off a sensor, even though the car was moving at a crawl. Even with pruning I've had to disable the emergency braking being activated by the RH side sensor to get out of the garage.

My father did exactly what you fear a couple of years before he passed, drove through the back of the garage and parked in the kitchen. Fortunately, Mum was elsewhere in the house at the time. When I arrived after a laid-back call from him - "could you come over, we've got a bit of an issue here I'd like your input on" - he had come to the conclusion that the car had a fault in that it had mysteriously transposed the functionality of the two pedals.

Later that day, after the insurance company had sent a guy to put some Acros up to temporarily hold the roof up and the car was moved I pocketed both sets of keys to his car and told Mum to hide the keys to hers. The next day he rang to tell me he couldn't find his car keys. This began a conversation over several days about the wisdom, or lack thereof, of him continuing to drive. After unsuccessfully trying to recruit my brothers to his cause he eventually came to terms with it and never drove again. He did, though, become the world's most annoying back seat driver.

You may or may not decide to share this story with Liane.

 

[Bob Heine]

You may or may not decide to share this story with Liane.

Geoff, a few minutes after my keys go walkabout I'll be contacting @harley jim to place an order for a Freedom Trike with a Harley Davidson Screamin' Eagle Milwaukee-Eight 131 with straight pipes. OK, maybe just the EV and some clothespin/playing card motor sound makers on the spoked front wheel.

@badonk, my sincere apologies for derailing yet another fantastic thread. I'll try to confine my future visits to harmless 'Like', 'Love', 'HaHa', 'Wow', 'Sad' or 'Angry' emojis.

 

[jake28]

@badonk congrats on the progress and thanks for updating the thread for strangers’ entertainment.

2 cents worth of opinion and experience for sensors and systems based on my recent build, and living in the nanny state of CA.

All new residential construction in CA (with only a handful of exceptions) requires an automatic fire suppression system. It’s a contributing factor to the increase in construction costs.
CA energy code also requires things like window sensors connected to thermostats that automatically shut off the heat if a window is open to conserve power. The inspector didn’t check for mine. There are a myriad of other examples of things the code requires; none of which have an impact on insurance, unless you need to make a claim. and conversely, there are small items that code doesn’t require, but if you don’t have them it’s grounds for insurer to deny a claim. Ex. Code doesn’t require a leak detection system, but I found out the hard way that I couldn’t make a claim on a leak and flooding because I didn’t have one installed.

I’d encourage you to get a list from the builder of “must haves” and “probably can get away without”, and, see if you can sit down with a friendly insurance agent and get the same list, and see where they overlap.

Re: fire suppression specifically. I was able to sidestep the requirement in my shop, and having it wasn’t going to have any impact on my insurance rate. The fire risk from wildfire is multiples higher than structure fire. So I took steps to mitigate the risk of a fire coming from outside, vs. inside with metal siding, roofing, and hardpscaping.

Kudos on the progress. And best not to check the hourly rate for shoveling, it might prompt you to change careers.

 

[badonk]

So here we are about a month later. The windows should have gone in last week but the installer had a personal issue to deal with. Next week hopefully. Mud is becoming a real thing too. The unpaved part of the driveway is ok in the morning when it is frozen but deep and soupy late in the day. I was there at 2 PM and I will say that snow shoes also work well in mud LOL. My builder wasn't going to try going up that in his rubicon. The shop looks great - my wife joked that we're building a costco warehouse which means I'm on the right track. I finally moved the camera so I'll have a new angle to watch things progress but the shop won't be in sight any more.

Fun times. I love this! Just wish we'd finish sooner. We are currently scheduled to have insulation and drywall done by early August. Then the tedious and long finishing process.



Final pic from here


New angle with me (for scale?).


Shop interior (with wife for scale). This is the window staging area too. We walked the site with the electrician about lighting and 220v requirements (2 lifts, compressor, etc). I think I described lighting requirements as similar to an operating room. We'll see what he conjures up. My current welder can run fine on 110v but thinking ahead a newer 220v and learning TIG might make sense so maybe 220v x 4 here.


Looks much smaller from this angle...lol. Outside the shop I'll have a 30x60 slab.

 

[badonk]

So off the garage topic but slightly related, had the '72 out and about this weekend. So much fun. Normally aspirated, 2250 lbs and 300hp (probably 250 at altitude). All smiles. I need to get the old Audi running this well. It has not been happy lately and I'm not much of a CIS fuel injection whisperer. More work required and lots of learning to go with it. Some day, or I punt and go fully modern fuel injection and lose more originality. Hmmm. I also realized from reading back through the thread that I never posted anything to give some perspective on the whole project.



Going back in time...the new shop is the concrete outline on the lower left. So from a birds eye view, about 1/3 the footprint of the house if I exclude the attached 2 car garage.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

What a beautiful location. Is the entire drive part of your property or is there another lot on the other side of from yours?

 

[badonk]

The entire drive is for my house...lots of asphalt and plowing. It'll make a nice kart track too.

 

[jake28]

I didn’t know you had a 911 in the stable. Kudos. I’ve delayed bringing my ‘75 to the mountains of CA only for fear of net getting the jetting settings right for 6200’

Some tips re electrical:
- I’d ask the sparky to rub at least 2 of the 220 circuits in 6 gauge AWG to handle a 60 amp circuit. 1 for welder and 1 for an EV charger. A conventional 50 amp circuit won’t be happy handling 48 amp continuous charging for very long before blowing the breaker.

- lighting: some LED options offer color changing/adjustable outputs. An operating room bright white is very effective, but I’ve found that working at night, it’s a jolt to the brain and circadian rhythm to spend hours in the evening under harsh light. A warmer out lout is easier in the eyes when you’re pondering CIS adjustments at 11pm.

 

[GlennSullivan]

My God, how many acres is the entire parcel?

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

The entire drive is for my house...lots of asphalt and plowing. It'll make a nice kart track too.

That is a serious driveway. Hope you are buying a serious machine for playing. Maybe even a tractor mounted snow blower instead with a heated cab.

 

[ned911]

What ya got in the back of that '72 to make 300hp? 3.2?
I've got a pair of 72's. One E flavored and the other and S.

 

[badonk]

I didn’t know you had a 911 in the stable. Kudos. I’ve delayed bringing my ‘75 to the mountains of CA only for fear of net getting the jetting settings right for 6200’

Some tips re electrical:
- I’d ask the sparky to rub at least 2 of the 220 circuits in 6 gauge AWG to handle a 60 amp circuit. 1 for welder and 1 for an EV charger. A conventional 50 amp circuit won’t be happy handling 48 amp continuous charging for very long before blowing the breaker.

- lighting: some LED options offer color changing/adjustable outputs. An operating room bright white is very effective, but I’ve found that working at night, it’s a jolt to the brain and circadian rhythm to spend hours in the evening under harsh light. A warmer out lout is easier in the eyes when you’re pondering CIS adjustments at 11pm.

I have an '81 911 also that I used to club race with PCA. I'm contemplating making it streetable again and then doing a safari build - would be fun to drive year round in the mountains.

I'll see what the electrician comes back with. The 'daily' garage will have an EV charger - apparently required by code now. It is unlikely I'll ever have an EV on the shop side but I get your point that plenty of 220v with sufficient amperage is important.

My God, how many acres is the entire parcel?

Pretty big - so that we have water rights for a well. 35 acres.

That is a serious driveway. Hope you are buying a serious machine for playing. Maybe even a tractor mounted snow blower instead with a heated cab.

There is a plow service. I had to plan the drive and parking areas so that there's space to push the snow. I may still get something but for those that I've spoken with, the plow service is fine most of the time.

What ya got in the back of that '72 to make 300hp? 3.2?
I've got a pair of 72's. One E flavored and the other and S.

3.6L varioram with no cat (for now). I have some custom exhaust ideas that would include cats but everything is on hold until after the new place is built.

 

[ericm]

A conventional 50 amp circuit won’t be happy handling 48 amp continuous charging for very long before blowing the breaker.

Can you tell the charger to only use 40a?

I'm asking because the electrician will be running wires in my shop soon. I have no plans for an EV, but things can change faster than one thinks. I was figuring on just charging slower if an EV ever does end up in my shop, rather than upgrading the 50a outlets. I could have the wiring and breakers upgraded but I could add a lot of stuff to the electrical and I'm trying to restrain myself to some definition of "reasonable". A least it's all conduit and mostly external so I can change things later if needed.

 

[GlennSullivan]

With the money you are spending, I'd run a 100A sub panel - it is only going to draw what the actual demand is from the main. That is what I did and glad my electrician convinced me of same.

 

[ned911]

I have an '81 911 also that I used to club race with PCA. I'm contemplating making it streetable again and then doing a safari build - would be fun to drive year round in the mountains.

I'll see what the electrician comes back with. The 'daily' garage will have an EV charger - apparently required by code now. It is unlikely I'll ever have an EV on the shop side but I get your point that plenty of 220v with sufficient amperage is important.


Pretty big - so that we have water rights for a well. 35 acres.



There is a plow service. I had to plan the drive and parking areas so that there's space to push the snow. I may still get something but for those that I've spoken with, the plow service is fine most of the time.



3.6L varioram with no cat (for now). I have some custom exhaust ideas that would include cats but everything is on hold until after the new place is built.

I club and vintage race one of my '72s for almost 30 years. Very expensive to convert them back lol and the race car still had a headliner. Now racing a 914-4 with the vintage group. PCA has gotten too outta control for a small time open trailer person like me, getting run over by cup cars is not much fun.

 

[badonk]

With the money you are spending, I'd run a 100A sub panel - it is only going to draw what the actual demand is from the main. That is what I did and glad my electrician convinced me of same.

Yeah my electrician plans a sub panel in the north west corner of the shop. Then the main will either be in the daily garage or ideally in the mechanical room. I designed the house with a large mech room (384 sq ft) to act as the nerve center for the house - so that there's plenty of room for all the systems and easy to maintain.

 

[badonk]

I club and vintage race one of my '72s for almost 30 years. Very expensive to convert them back lol and the race car still had a headliner. Now racing a 914-4 with the vintage group. PCA has gotten too outta control for a small time open trailer person like me, getting run over by cup cars is not much fun.

About 20 years ago I had plans to club race my '72 - already had the suspension set up, roll cage, etc. But a good friend advised against it due to rising values of early air cooled. So I picked up a high mileage euro SC and moved many of the race parts over to it - then started restoring the '72. I ran the SC in E stock, which if you remember was one of the largest classes so there was always good racing. Then came the rise of spec boxster etc and there were so many options that were a lot less expensive to run - so the E stock competition moved on to other things. Years ago I had thought about selling it but it actually wasn't worth much. So it sits and waits for my attention.

The compelling thing about making a street safari is the safari part takes care of the suspension rebuild for around 10K. So if running a stock motor and gearbox, I'm just cutting out the cage and re-doing the interior...maybe a respray...and...and . That's leads to my biggest debate right now is how far to go with it. I could cut the cage out, put some street seats and carpet in, throw a safari coilover package on it with a set of wheels for probably 15-20k and start having fun. I still have most of the original (brown) interior bits I took out for racing.

 

[badonk]

1 month check in. Windows are in. HVAC rough in done. Plumbing and electrical started. I have lots of pictures from my trail camera but obviously nothing changes outside much during the rough in phase. If we stay on schedule, we're about 3 weeks away from having the electrical, mechanical, and structural inspections done before moving on to insulation and drywall.

We are making final decisions for things like hose bib locations, light switches, etc. For the workshop, I am running hot and cold water to it for the hose bib and the utility sink.

Outside of shop


Courtyard/parking area between shop and house


HVAC going in


Windows in. Soffets going in soon too. Possibly siding and roofing in the next month or two.

 

[csp]

HVAC is high velocity? Looks great.

 

[jake28]

Easy to say for someone else’s project, but man does it feel like it’s going quickly. Kudos. Looks great.

 

[badonk]

HVAC is high velocity? Looks great.

Yes, high velocity system. So far I am retty happy with how it is working out. Lots of houses are built up there without A/C...or using mini-splits to create a few zones (in bedrooms, etc). I wanted whole house A/C mostly for humidification and air filtration. Most of the time in the summer you can open windows to cool things down at night. But with more and more wildfire smoke (from in-state or out-of-state) I wanted another option to keep things comfortable.

I didn't want to go the mini-split route and a 'normal' system wasn't in the cards due to some of the structural steel. This is one of those cases where the architects designed one thing, the structural engineers came up with a design that was expensive and difficult to build, then the framers worked with both to value-engineer it a bit. But we never really fully thought through all the other details like how to get ducting in place, plumbing, wiring, etc. Ideally the builder would have caught it earlier and made more adjustments up front. But with a simple solution of dropping a few parts of the ceiling by a foot, we were fine. So the HVAC sub thought high velocity was the answer. The HVAC sub originally wanted to bring those vents up through the floor. That made things a bit more complicated that I wanted - having openings all over the floor - we are doing a concrete look tile on the entire main floor. Even with vaulted ceilings, we had plenty of space to route high velocity ductwork so up in the ceilings it went. We can run 4 zones off just one compressor. In the end this came in at about the same cost that my builder normally sees with mini-split systems.

The utility/mech room should be pretty impressive if you're into that kind of thing. Since it is central to the house and in the basement, it was basically free space. 384 sq ft. So it won't be cramped and each trade will have their zone for systems while not stepping on each other. I'll be sure to get some pictures to share as it comes together...

 

[badonk]

Easy to say for someone else’s project, but man does it feel like it’s going quickly. Kudos. Looks great.

Hah funny you say that. This feels agonizingly slow to me...maybe also because I can't see anything happening on my trail camera so without hearing from my builder, I'd not know about any progress.

If we have drywall done by the end of July, the schedule doesn't have me moving in until Feb! That's a lot of time installing tile, cabinets and trimming out.

 

[ericm]

Hah funny you say that. This feels agonizingly slow to me...maybe also because I can't see anything happening on my trail camera so without hearing from my builder, I'd not know about any progress.

If we have drywall done by the end of July, the schedule doesn't have me moving in until Feb! That's a lot of time installing tile, cabinets and trimming out.

We closed on our property a year ago. Construction started a couple months later (waiting for engineering and permits).
The house is in the drywall stage. I hope our drywall to move in isn't seven months!