The VISES of Garage Journal

[Shiftless]

Down the drain--it's sold as drain cleaner, after all

Of course!!!
If my neighbors are pouring acid down the drain my lye will neutralize it before it gets to the sewage treatment plant.

 

[jawstight]

Finished the brass soft jaws for the 9300. Didn't spend a lot of time shining them because this will be a working vise. Didn't bore a hole for the pin either. Happy with the way they turned out though. This workbench I often use for work on firearms, and that is the plan for this vise so these jaws should come in handy.

Question for you all though, since I'm not a machinist. If I press the faces of these brass jaws face to face against the faces of the checkered jaws, in a larger vise, will I be able to get any sort of checkering applied to the brass jaws' faces? I don't want to deform them much (actually not at all), and they don't need the deep checkering of the steel jaws, but a little unevenness in the surface of the faces would help them to grip better. I generally don't need or want to apply a whole lot of clamping force on firearm components. Caveat, I don't want to use heat.

 

[Patrickm82]

Very nice @jawstight

 

[jawstight]

Thank you Sir

 

[four.cycle]

@jawstight -
nice work there!

 

[Beerhippie]

@jawstight : You might be able to use the old jaws to "impress" the pattern onto the new brass jaws--but without heat, you get one try. Brass work-hardens easily and HARD.

 

[dannyr]

@jawstight : You might be able to use the old jaws to "impress" the pattern onto the new brass jaws--but without heat, you get one try. Brass work-hardens easily and HARD.

and there are different brass alloys

 

[KMScott]

Finished the brass soft jaws for the 9300. Didn't spend a lot of time shining them because this will be a working vise. Didn't bore a hole for the pin either. Happy with the way they turned out though. This workbench I often use for work on firearms, and that is the plan for this vise so these jaws should come in handy.

Question for you all though, since I'm not a machinist. If I press the faces of these brass jaws face to face against the faces of the checkered jaws, in a larger vise, will I be able to get any sort of checkering applied to the brass jaws' faces? I don't want to deform them much (actually not at all), and they don't need the deep checkering of the steel jaws, but a little unevenness in the surface of the faces would help them to grip better. I generally don't need or want to apply a whole lot of clamping force on firearm components. Caveat, I don't want to use heat.

Brass is pretty hard but not as hard as Bronze. You might have been better off using Copper. Soft Copper would form easier when pressed into serrated jaws.

 

[jawstight]

and there are different brass alloys

I should have included this: "C360 Brass flat bar, H02

​

 

[Eric Brown]

Fulton 5190 vise. 3" wide smooth jaws and opens about 3". Cleaned up and will nickel plate this summer. Its for my Fulton collection of various tools. Was looking for a small vice with smooth jaws and a nice horn. This one fits the bill.

 

[fishwatcher]

Fulton 5190 vise. 3" wide smooth jaws and opens about 3". Cleaned up and will nickel plate this summer. Its for my Fulton collection of various tools. Was looking for a small vice with smooth jaws and a nice horn. This one fits the bill.

Super clean! It’ll look even better nickel plated!! [searches on GJ for other examples]

 

[jawstight]

Picked up an 8400 HD for a good price. Should be here next week. Don't know the year of manufacture yet, but I'm hoping it's from the 50's, like me.

Anyone know what the differences were between the 8x00 and 9x00 models? Or when Wilton stopped using the four digit model numbers and switched over to the 3 digit, one letter format (eg. 400S)?

I have a swivel base and hardware from a 1750 that I picked up which I'm hoping will work with this 8400. Same part number for the 1750, 4" and 5" machinist vises' swivel base so I'm hoping it will.



and, one last picture of the 9300. I had to shorten the bolts because they were impeding free travel of the swivel. And I found these four brass acorn nuts that I had forgotten I had.

 

[cody1325]

Fulton 5190 vise. 3" wide smooth jaws and opens about 3". Cleaned up and will nickel plate this summer. Its for my Fulton collection of various tools. Was looking for a small vice with smooth jaws and a nice horn. This one fits the bill.

Kinda wish I'd bought a Fulton Japan bench vise I saw at a local antique store for $20. Was pretty decent quality, but appeared to be missing its swivel (though it may not have come with one). That's why I passed.

The Fulton Japan stuff is top notch--got a few old stock wrenches recently at a small feed store in town, and all were sourced from KTC and marked as such. They were $3 each, probably the '80s price. Honestly, nicer than most US brands at the time. Thinking about sourcing a few more, but they only had like 3 different sizes (all of which I bought). Since they had multiples, and those sizes are ones I use, I'm thinking about buying the 2-3 of each.

 

[RickP330]

Located around the block. Seller not listing much info other than $50 take it or leave it. What do you make of this, I'm thinking for all purpose vise it might work? Can any of your aficionados tell much the pic?

Okay, slight diversion, I had to update my work bench. I have a small work area, so I don't have a fixed bench at the moment, so I upgraded my work stand. Been put to work several times already. It's a great addition to the shop.

 

[fishwatcher]

Okay, slight diversion, I had to update my work bench. I have a small work area, so I don't have a fixed bench at the moment, so I upgraded my work stand. Been put to work several times already. It's a great addition to the shop.

Nice. So you put a thick top and beefy vise on a WorkMate equivalent. I’m just getting caught up on your other recent posts. I like it.

Ideally, that vise would be closer to the edge so you can hold things vertically in your vise that extend past the table top.

 

[fishwatcher]

Hey all,
Well I got it all done, thanks to you all. Without you guys I would probably would have wound up with a vise from Horrible freight.

$50 on Facebook Market place
$30 1-7/16 1/2" drive socket
$10 cupped wire wheel
$10 spray lube
$17 Evaporust
$16 Rustolium

Result = vise that works smooth as heck. It's a beautiful thing. I know sometimes I might ask basic questions that seem annoying to some but I always learn something valuable from you guys. I forget who (beerhippy?) recommended it but I bought the spray lube. That is the real deal - I never heard of an oil like this.

Thank you all - I've got a real vise now even better than the old one I lost in my travels and it's ready to go to work!
RP

Awesome job on your restore. What color red is that? I just bought Rustoleum Sunrise Red for my next restore.

 

[RickP330]

Nice. So you put a thick top and beefy vise on a WorkMate equivalent. I’m just getting caught up on your other recent posts. I like it.

Ideally, that vise would be closer to the edge so you can hold things vertically in your vise that extend past the table top.

Ahh, Always learning. I'll curse myself first time that comes up, but thank you.

Awesome job on your restore. What color red is that? I just bought Rustoleum Sunrise Red for my next restore.

Yes, Rustoleum red!
Thanks all!

 

[fishwatcher]

I’m cleaning up an old Starrett 015.

I found welds on the screw nut. While this doesn’t look pretty (obviously it’ll be hidden).. any comments on the strength of this repair? It’s like this on both sides. How could one have cracked it so bad? BFH I assume.

Also.. there’s some significant-ish play when turning the main screw. Measuring with cheap digital calipers, the screw diameter is 7/8”. The screw hole diameter is 15/16 (bad drawing).

Is there a bushing (sleeve or flanged) that would be thin enough to fit over the screw to take up slack? If there were.. what measurements should I look for? Could a machinist make something work (easily)? I have a neighbor who owns a shop, but I’ve never asked him for this kind of help.

 

[Shiftless]

Is there a bushing (sleeve or flanged) that would be thin enough to fit over the screw to take up slack? If there were.. what measurements should I look for?

Before having anything custom made, I would get a narrow strip of 24 ga. Aluminum flashing and cut it to match the circumference of the screw. Make your own bushing, That might be good enough to take up the slack and eliminate the wobble. If it was too “shade tree mechanic” it would at least give you a close idea as to the thickness needed for your custom made bushing.

You might find a source for some thin wall tubing. Cut off a short piece and there is your bushing,

 

[fishwatcher]

Before having anything custom made, I would get a narrow strip of 24 ga. Aluminum flashing and cut it to match the circumference of the screw. Make your own bushing, That might be good enough to take up the slack and eliminate the wobble. If it was too “shade tree mechanic” it would at least give you a close idea as to the thickness needed for your custom made bushing.

You might find a source for some thin wall tubing. Cut off a short piece and there is your bushing,

Hmm.. maybe cut this out from an aluminum soda can?

Also.. I found this.. but think might take up all of the available clearance. Also, it’s

 

[ChefRex]

On my Littletown I used a Sportster cam bushing I had laying around, the outside was perfect and I opened up the OD, made a world of difference in that little vise.

 

[Midwest Shop Supply]

Here are 1/2-13 thread, brass swivel base handles that are designed to replicate the style Wilton used on the early 1940' fishhook style vises that I made. Let me know what you think!

 

[Shiftless]

Hmm.. maybe cut this out from an aluminum soda can?

That should be pretty close to 24 ga. Maybe a bit thinner? 26 ga?
Go ahead and try that. For most of us, it’s easier to find an old soda or beer can than a piece of flashing.

The McMasters Carr part costs $35 plus shipping. That makes an empty aluminum can look pretty cost effective. (If it works at all )

 

[Beerhippie]

That should be pretty close to 24 ga. Maybe a bit thinner? 26 ga?
Go ahead and try that. For most of us, it’s easier to find an old soda or beer can than a piece of flashing.

The McMasters Carr part costs $35 plus shipping. That makes an empty aluminum can look pretty cost effective. (If it works at all )

Assuming that soda cans are the same as the cans we use at the brewery, the thickness is 0.005". Older cans--say twenty years ago, were 0.010".

 

[Shiftless]

Fishwatcher needs to make up for 1/16 th inch difference between the hole and the shaft.
So he needs a bit less than 1/32 inch thickness of metal for the “bushing” that wraps around the screw…that’s .03125 inches
.005 would help a bit but would theoretically leave a pretty big gap. But it’s so easy to test, I would just try it and see what level of improvement was achieved.

A guy could hammer some dimples into the thin aluminum to make it work like a thicker piece.
A lot depends on how much use this old vise will be expected to perform.

 

[KMScott]

Here are 1/2-13 thread, brass swivel base handles that are designed to replicate the style Wilton used on the early 1940' fishhook style vises that I made. Let me know what you think!

Wilton used Bronze material on theirs. It holds up better where the handles slide. Kind of thin wall in that area. Looks good though. This set on my C1 are Bronze and original except I added the swivel handles.

 

[Midwest Shop Supply]

Wilton used Bronze material on theirs. It holds up better where the handles slide. Kind of thin wall in that area. Looks good though. This set on my C1 are Bronze and original except I added the swivel handles.

that is awesome! Thanks for point that out, I thought it was brass. Did Wilton issue the washers under the handles from the factory?

 

[PierceA]

Fishwatcher: A few suggestions; find a short piece of rigid copper tubing, maybe a female-female coupler.
A short piece of tubing can be slit lengthwise then opened up to have an ID of 7/8", slide it over the mainscrew.
A 3/4" coupler may already have an ID of close to 7/8".
Last idea: use more than one layer of beer can or soda can: wrap it around the mainscrew like tape. This will then
be much thicker and may be what you need.

If I get a chance and remember to look, I'll measure a 3/4" copper coupling for ID and OD.

PierceA

 

[Eric Brown]

Wilton used Bronze material on theirs. It holds up better where the handles slide. Kind of thin wall in that area. Looks good though. This set on my C1 are Bronze and original except I added the swivel handles.

Might even be oil impregnated bronze.

 

[Beerhippie]

Fishwatcher: A few suggestions; find a short piece of rigid copper tubing, maybe a female-female coupler.
A short piece of tubing can be slit lengthwise then opened up to have an ID of 7/8", slide it over the mainscrew.
A 3/4" coupler may already have an ID of close to 7/8".
Last idea: use more than one layer of beer can or soda can: wrap it around the mainscrew like tape. This will then
be much thicker and may be what you need.

If I get a chance and remember to look, I'll measure a 3/4" copper coupling for ID and OD.

PierceA

ID of a 3/4" copper sweat coupler would, indeed, be 7/8". OD of copper pipe is always nominal dia. + 1/8".

OD of the fitting would be +1/8, or 1 inch.

 

[KMScott]

that is awesome! Thanks for point that out, I thought it was brass. Did Wilton issue the washers under the handles from the factory?

No I added the washer‘s. I use 1144 Cold Formed CRS for the handle material. It’s great stuff. Here is some drawings I created back when I was building vise parts. You might already have these drawings but if not add these to your collection. Good luck selling your lockdowns.

 

[Shiftless]

Copper tubing is a lot thicker than beer can aluminum

Here is what I found for tubing thickness. Not couplers…tubing… type L (the heavy stuff) and type M which is thinner.

Type L three-quarter-inch pipes have a wall thickness of 0.045 inches, while Type M pipes have a thickness of 0.032 inches. On the other hand, a half-inch Type L pipe is 0.040 inches, and Type M is 0.028 inches.

The 3/4 inch copper tubing type M is .032 so that would completely fill the gap with no room to spare. That would be too tight unless you did some work on the pipe with a belt sander or slightly enlarge the 15/16 hole in the dynamic.

But maybe we shouldn’t be figuring all this out to the thousandths based on fishwatcher’s admittedly rough measurements.

 

[Midwest Shop Supply]

No I added the washer‘s. I use 1144 Cold Formed CRS for the handle material. It’s great stuff. Here is some drawings I created back when I was building vise parts. You might already have these drawings but if not add these to your collection. Good luck selling your lockdowns.

Wow thank you! I’ve got several drawings, but you got a few here I haven’t gotten around to making up, thank you!

 

[RTM]

Assuming that soda cans are the same as the cans we use at the brewery, the thickness is 0.005". Older cans--say twenty years ago, were 0.010".

Not so certain anymore, but back when I worked in a brewery, the different brands used different thicknesses of cans. The big boys all used the thinnest they could, as a million cans a day was expensive at any rate. Three mid tier used slightly thicker, the little guys used the thickest, cuz the older equipment could be reused / resold down the food chain.

The big money savings is in the smaller lid diameter as well.

Nowadays with contract packaging, mobile packaging units, etc, I can’t be so certain based on market as I used to.

 

[Beerhippie]

Not so certain anymore, but back when I worked in a brewery, the different brands used different thicknesses of cans. The big boys all used the thinnest they could, as a million cans a day was expensive at any rate. Three mid tier used slightly thicker, the little guys used the thickest, cuz the older equipment could be reused / resold down the food chain.

The big money savings is in the smaller lid diameter as well.

Nowadays with contract packaging, mobile packaging units, etc, I can’t be so certain based on market as I used to.

There's been a lot of changes since then. Seems most cans are the same--0.005". Aluminum got more expensive a while back. Not sure of the thickness of the cans the big guys use--I drink what we make.

The damned flimsy little cans are hard for an old-timer like me to open without a potential disaster--like the old trick of grabbing two cans, one for me, one for a bud--and opening them both one handed--with the new cans, that results in a dual-can geyser as my fingers crush the can.

Our current canning line--ABE Lincan--can actually put a sealed lid on an empty flimsy can!

PS: I've been using beer cans as shim stock for a few decades, which is why I keep track of the thickness.

 

[Shiftless]

I've been using beer cans as shim stock for a few decades,

 

[fishwatcher]

PS: I've been using beer cans as shim stock for a few decades, which is why I keep track of the thickness.

I’ll definitely try this. Your experience using cans as shim stock gives me additional confidence.

Today, I only got as far as taking some paint off with acetone and drill accessories (wire wheel and abrasive pad). This took at least 30 minutes.

 

[Midwest Shop Supply]

Wilton used Bronze material on theirs. It holds up better where the handles slide. Kind of thin wall in that area. Looks good though. This set on my C1 are Bronze and original except I added the swivel handles.

The intersting thing is that i've had several requests for Brass handles, I guess people just made the assumption

 

[Beerhippie]

The intersting thing is that i've had several requests for Brass handles, I guess people just made the assumption

Most people don't know **** from Shinola when it comes to metals. Or much of anything else practical.

Fer instance, my Coleman Products Guide calls any silver/white metal (that isn't known to be nickel-plated) aluminum--even if it's painted steel showing rust.

 

[Beerhippie]

I was intending to do the weld-a-nut-on-the-swivel-lock trick shown above today. I unscrewed the lock bolt, started thinking about how I wanted it to look--should I cut the bolt below the hole for the stupid lever or not?--and realized, hey, it's just a bolt.

Using my handy thread checker, I determined that it was a 12mm 1.75 thread, by 50 mm long. Believe it or not, the closest hardware store--Do It Best--had Grade 10.8 in 12 X 1.75!





Is it pretty" Nope. Does it work? Yep. Since the head of the 12mm bolt is 19 mm AF, I can use a 19mm or 3/4" wrench, whichever is closer to hand.

Now to find a reason to swivel the vise... since it's mounted on the corner of the bench, I really never swivel it. The rotating jaws, OTOH, I use damned near every day.