Ac drip pan pump out possible ?

[Jsf721]

I had a problem with my air conditioning system that froze. Had a tech come out and put 3 pounds of 410 an into the system, along with a leak stopper.

The unit itself has a drain and that drain appears to be draining outside my house.

My drain pan cannot properly be pitched so there is no drain attached to it. I’ve been checking it over the past day since the unit has been put back into service and there’s quite a bit of fluid building up in my pan. I’d say I’m getting about a gallon every 12 hours. I’ve been removing it with a small wet, dry vacuum.

My question is is this normal? It’s been pretty hot here and it’s pretty warm in the attic space where the unit is. I never really paid much attention to it as long as the air conditioning is working so I don’t know if having some fluid there is normal. I guess, as long as it evaporates before it overflows the tray I never would’ve noticed it.

Next question is, is there a pump that I can put in there that will automatically turn on and off to remove the buildup of fluid in such a shallow pan? I’d say it’s probably about an inch deep max. I do have an outlet there. I can plug into then I can just run the tube out the same hole where the main drain for the unit is exiting the house. Ideally this pump would just sit in my drain pan and have some type of float so when the level got to say half of an inch it would pump out and turn itself off.

Thanks

 

[Fav Onefour]

What?!!!
I sure hope I'm seeing this wrong. Why is the condensate in the steel pan?
It looks like a traditional air handler flipped on it's side. The condensate should still be going through the internal pan and drain. Have you checked the pvc drain line?

Man, there is some crazy stuff laying up there.

 

[bonneyman]

10-4 The metal drip pan is for emergency use only. If there's water in there continually - or if there's alot of rust like here - then the primary condensate line/drain is restricted and the coil pan is overflowing into the emergency drip pan. That pan is there to prevent overflow into the ceiling and home causing $$$ in damage.
The main cond drain line should be low on the wall outside, probably near the condensing unit. It should always have water dripping out during the summer. The secondary pan drain should be high up on the wall outside in the same general area. If you see water dripping out of there, turn the A/C off and call for service.
The little gray device in the first pic with the red leads is the safety switch that should be turning off the unit if there's water in the pan. Can't tell if it's hooked up but judging from the rust I'd say it's inoperative.

 

[toplessHO]

looks like the red wires are just hanging there.

 

[Fav Onefour]

Next time you go up there to play, bring a level and check the unit too.
I question installer dedication when I only see two adjustable hangers. I'm sure there are short rods on the back, but they didn't even bother sealing the wall openings. We don't need to mention the wiring. I bet they took a bunch of shortcuts. Maybe it's out of level enough for the condensate to not flow through the front drain? I know it's tight but can you see where water is dripping out of the unit into the pan?

I hate to get into too many install questions. I'm just a little curious.
Where is the return routed? I don't know the floor plan below. Through the pan would not be normal. If it was out the back end, that puts in awful close to the outside wall. I'm wondering about airflow in the home.

 

[Two Door]

The condensate drain is running uphill from the evaporator, because the unit is too close to the wall and cant sit high enough. Apparently someone tried to install it with the exising setup from a previous unit. It essentially needs a new installation to correct where it sits and all the piping (condensate, gas, venting).

 

[Fav Onefour]

Unfortunately I think @Two Door , is correct. I was trying to be nice and hoping I was wrong.

 

[CJM8515]

i dont see how that drains properly cause the water has to go UPHILL

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Whole lotta WTF going on here!
This is an attic install that should be easy to get a PROPER gravity drain installed and draining. I see that you have a drain pan float switch installed and you can easily take that white PVC plug off that "stub out" and hook up a PVC "emergency" drain to drip outside.……. This way you will have a pan drain and a pan over flow shut off.
I highly suggest taking everything apart and start out fresh with some 3/4” PVC…… Pitched correctly.

 

[bonneyman]

And if you don't have the clearance to slope it properly you might have to install a lo-level condensate pump and pump it to a proper drain or sewer.

Low-Profile Condensate Pumps | Little Giant

Tight on space? Our low-profile condensate pumps have a smaller reservoir, allowing for installation in tight or limited areas, such as crawl spaces.

www.littlegiant.com

 

[GRN96WS6]

Nothing is normal about that

 

[Jsf721]

What?!!!
I sure hope I'm seeing this wrong. Why is the condensate in the steel pan?
It looks like a traditional air handler flipped on it's side. The condensate should still be going through the internal pan and drain. Have you checked the pvc drain line?

Man, there is some crazy stuff laying up there.

I used a wet dry vacuum to try to clear the drain from outside. It’s draining but water is accumulating in the pan.

 

[Jsf721]

And if you don't have the clearance to slope it properly you might have to install a lo-level condensate pump and pump it to a proper drain or sewer.

Low-Profile Condensate Pumps | Little Giant

Tight on space? Our low-profile condensate pumps have a smaller reservoir, allowing for installation in tight or limited areas, such as crawl spaces.

www.littlegiant.com

does this sit in the pan?. This would save me a lot of wet vacuum overnight until I get it fixed.

 

[bonneyman]

does this sit in the pan?. This would save me a lot of wet vacuum overnight until I get it fixed.

I believe so. Haven't installed one in years. And I don't know the minimum depth it will pull to. But might be a stopgate measure for you.

 

[rlitman]

I used a wet dry vacuum to try to clear the drain from outside. It’s draining but water is accumulating in the pan.

The "trap" in the actual drain pan is probably clogged. Water should NEVER be appearing in the metal catch pan. That's there to protect the ceiling below from something going wrong with the real drain pain. The pan inside the unit is plastic, and is connected to that white PVC with all those 45's. The usual mode of failure is slime builds up in there until the trap clogs and the plastic pan overflows into the catch pan. At this point you need to shut the unit down and clean out the drain line. A vacuum might open it up, but a brush works best.

When you get access to the pan (after opening the drain), treat the condenser coil with self-rinsing cleaner, and that should wash the rest of the **** down the drain. Then drop a pan tablet "mint" in the pan to prevent new growth (for a few months).

 

[fitter30]

Correct me if im wrong is look s like the evap coil is blow through not on the return side. If that's the case a blow through coil doesn't need a trap. Another problem there needs to be tee cut into the drain line after the trap with the bull (side outlet) with a piece of pipe 10" long. The coil drain looks to be lower than the drain pipe leaving side of trap and the screwed connection at coil is at 22.5° pointing down. They come out straight.

 

[BillK]

If the system has been working ok for many years then the problem is probably not in the installation no matter how bad it is.

My bet is something is clogged up in the internal pan OR the internal pan is cracked or rusted through. I had that happen in my home AC and we had to replace the evaporator because the plastic pan was all one piece with the evaporator.

 

[PoorUB]

Like others have said, the pan under the unit should never have water in it. It there is, you have a problem.

 

[Jsf721]

I had someone come by to open the unit and remove the clog. It ended up being insulation that got wet and partially clogged the drain inlet. Surprisingly there was not much buildup.

He also rebuilt the condensate line. I think it’s working (not leaking) but I’ll know soon. There was a lot of wet wood so it’s drying.

The pan is drying up as well. Once it’s dry I will clean it well. And epoxy or flex seal it.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and guidance. This place and you guys are an incredible help when I get an issue and need a trustworthy opinion. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Jeff

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

I have "repaired" some condensate drain pans (inside the box) with a rust encapsulator called POR 15……. Grab a quart of POR and some toss away paint brushes to Paint Over Rust on that overflow pan. This will seal the rust and fill in any small holes.

TIP! Pour this stuff into the pan (pours like water) and spread it out with the toss away brush…….. Wear gloves and long sleeves because this POR is tough to get off your skin.

 

[Jsf721]

I have "repaired" some condensate drain pans (inside the box) with a rust encapsulator called POR 15……. Grab a quart of POR and some toss away paint brushes to Paint Over Rust on that overflow pan. This will seal the rust and fill in any small holes.

TIP! Pour this stuff into the pan (pours like water) and spread it out with the toss away brush…….. Wear gloves and long sleeves because this POR is tough to get off your skin.

Thanks for the tip. I will definitely look into that product for this project.

 

[rlitman]

...He also rebuilt the condensate line...

Is that glove capped riser for cleanout purposes? Having access into the trap is great! Now you can get a brush to poke in there and can drop a "mint" right in that way.

I use a long brush on a spring like this:

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And for mini-split and window AC drain pans, I use a brush made to clear car sunroof drains:

 

[Jsf721]

Is that glove capped riser for cleanout purposes? Having access into the trap is great! Now you can get a brush to poke in there and can drop a "mint" right in that way.

I use a long brush on a spring like this:

Amazon.com : 12 Pieces Tube Cleaning Brush Aquarium Filter Nylon Tube Brush Set Flexible Double-Ended Hose Pipe Cleaning Stainless Steel for Fish Tank, Kitchen, Glasses, Drinking Straws, Keyboard : Pet Supplies

Amazon.com : 12 Pieces Tube Cleaning Brush Aquarium Filter Nylon Tube Brush Set Flexible Double-Ended Hose Pipe Cleaning Stainless Steel for Fish Tank, Kitchen, Glasses, Drinking Straws, Keyboard : Pet Supplies

www.amazon.com

And for mini-split and window AC drain pans, I use a brush made to clear car sunroof drains:

Good Eye ! Yes, He is dropping off a 3/4" slip cap and he did install some pan treatment mints. It is to clean out, vacuum out an flush out access. Once I am convinced the pan will remain dry, I will clean it, seal it and put a leak detector in there

I ordered these on Amazon last night

Amazon.com : 12 Pieces Tube Cleaning Brush Aquarium Filter Nylon Tube Brush Set Flexible Double-Ended Hose Pipe Cleaning Stainless Steel for Fish Tank, Kitchen, Glasses, Drinking Straws, Keyboard : Pet Supplies

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www.amazon.com

 

[larry4406]

Looks your fixer notched the sidewall of the pan as part of the fix.

Before


After. Note the black tape add


So you have less ponding capability and a hole in the pan. Make sure this notch is fully sealed tight to the pan.

 

[dcg9381]

I had someone come by to open the unit and remove the clog. It ended up being insulation that got wet and partially clogged the drain inlet. Surprisingly there was not much buildup.

He also rebuilt the condensate line. I think it’s working (not leaking) but I’ll know soon. There was a lot of wet wood so it’s drying.

The pan is drying up as well. Once it’s dry I will clean it well. And epoxy or flex seal it.

Jeff,
If a condensation line gets clogged, they can be an absolute bear to clear out. I usually put a shop vac on the outside end and add bleach or (if you're feeling aggressive) lye. You can't snake them as the bends are too tight. Only other way I've thought about doing it is by applying air pressure.

In the south our drain lines regularly get clogged up. I added a "T" which is 1" / .75" / .75". In the 1" spot, I drop hot tub chlorine tablets, they self gravity feed and can last 6+ months.



That won't help with "insulation" clogs, but it sure helps with all the other types of clogs if they are typical in your climate.

The condensation line looks "right" to me, it's got a trap... But what does not look right is that they cut the pan. That pan is going to leak where it meets the PVC. I'd fiberglass it or find some other means to bond PVC and metal so it won't leak. If flex-seal works, all good.

If you want more security, you add a "float switch" to the pan. That way if the line backs up and the pan fills up, the unit shuts down. Beats replacing drywall.

12 gallons a day is absolutely very possible around here.

 

[Codyboy]

Looks your fixer notched the sidewall of the pan as part of the fix.

Before


After. Note the black tape add


So you have less ponding capability and a hole in the pan. Make sure this notch is fully sealed tight to the pan.

Yeah that guy would be replacing my pan with a new one. Defeats the whole purpose of the pan.

If he won't do it in your case, which ve probably wouldn't id use some Loctite PL polyurethane for roof and flashing sealant.

Why does it angle down so far coming from the unit instead of straight out?

 

[rust in the eye]

Yeah that guy would be replacing my pan with a new one. Defeats the whole purpose of the pan.

If he won't do it in your case, which ve probably wouldn't id use some Loctite PL polyurethane for roof and flashing sealant.

Why does it angle down so far coming from the unit instead of straight out?

The pan was already notched by the original installer who chose to not only notch the pan but still attempted to defy gravity with his plumbing arrangement.
Shouldn't be a tough task to seal that condensate pipe to the pan, looks like the repairer made an effort. I see an unused bulkhead drain a couple feet away. Still a most interesting installation.
Exhaust flue looks sketchy as well.

 

[Jsf721]

Looks your fixer notched the sidewall of the pan as part of the fix.

Before


After. Note the black tape add


So you have less ponding capability and a hole in the pan. Make sure this notch is fully sealed tight to the pan.

Firstly, I have had guys come to my house , see this unit and leave -LOL. Out of shape old guys (like me). You need to be a contortionist to work on it. This person I found was not the original installer. I have cut ties with him as I have had many issues with his work and prices. This unit is against the joists so it cannot move back or up any further.

You are not wrong he did re notch it to get a slight pitch. It was notched prior as well. getting a new pan is not easy or cheap. Whole unit would need to come out. So its just about impossible. Its too big to slide out although it can be shifted when the drain was out. He used a gutter repair tape to seal from the outside. I will clean it and silicone the corners. Also build up the area where its been cut and repair the old cut out we bent back with flex seal tape.

The drain now has a clean out, and has a positive pitch to the T and out of the house. The unit was opened for the first time since it was in stalled in 2012 and cleaned out totally. Mostly dust, insulation from install and some gunk. All told it all fit in an 8oz coffee mug but the wet insulation plugged a good part of the drain.

When he resealed the door with the silver tape we have a leak on the bottom of the area where the duct meets the unit. It was wet and the tape did not stick. He will be back in about a week to see how well we can seal that up. That said the unit is working great, draining great and I am super happy for what I got and what I paid. Not often i feel that way these days.

 

[Jsf721]

Pan is dry -yeah- I can hear the flow of water and the top is now capped. I dropped in some pan mints into the 3/4 clean out. There are others in the pan for now and all is well.

All that’s left is the better seal the bottom where the duct meets the unit.

I do have quite a bit of cold air exiting the condensent drain line. When I pulled the glove to install the cap I noticed it

I think I should have installed a valve to shut off between the drain and the T so I could blow out the drain line with a gallo gun in the future without blowing junk into the unit. Maybe end of ac season job.

 

[rlitman]

...I think I should have installed a valve to shut off between the drain and the T so I could blow out the drain line with a gallo gun in the future without blowing junk into the unit. Maybe end of ac season job.

I've never worried about blowing stuff into the unit, but when you have access for a brush, there's not much need for compressed air anyway.

As for a valve, you could use a piece of hose that fits snugly in the pipe, with the bottom end split in half and half removed. Oriented with the flap/spoon towards the unit, it would divert the flow path up, so the air can blow the debris all over the place and into your face. On second thought...

 

[Jsf721]

I've never worried about blowing stuff into the unit, but when you have access for a brush, there's not much need for compressed air anyway.

As for a valve, you could use a piece of hose that fits snugly in the pipe, with the bottom end split in half and half removed. Oriented with the flap/spoon towards the unit, it would divert the flow path up, so the air can blow the debris all over the place and into your face. On second thought...

Great idea. Thanks once again. I’ll wear a full face shield and let you know how it works out.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

I was waiting until the tech finished his job of correcting the condensate line repair until I saw the final repair and here are my observations.


I "think" you may need some pitch (up toward the roof) on the vertical vent pipe piece…….. This may be a photo "illusion" but it appears there is no or negative pitch.

I suggest installing an overflow shut off switch on the condensate ****** so the AC shuts off if line gets clogged……… Remove the glove ASAP!

Hit that pan at the notched pan with some RTV.

 

[Codyboy]

I'm not an HVAC guy.
Is that right side the intake/return?
Why is the coils small end toward the intake if thats what I'm looking at. I have no idea and just trying to learn.
If its the outflow side why would the drain be on that side? It seems it would be pushing condensate into the duct.

I noticed you said there was wet insulation inside and wondering how it got wet.
I had a similar situation on my unit. When the main drain line got clogged and the unit wasn't plumb. It was sucking condensate upwards into the insulated cabinet and pushed it into the ductwork.
Mine has a overflow drain hole (higher hole just above the main drain line hole) .
I can't see an overflow into the pan. How does it get into the pan if needed? Is the plug in that hole still in?
Also that stub out in the pan should go outside.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

I'm not an HVAC guy.
Is that right side the intake/return?
Why is the coils small end toward the intake if thats what I'm looking at. I have no idea and just trying to learn.
If its the outflow side why would the drain be on that side? It seems it would be pushing condensate into the duct.

I noticed you said there was wet insulation inside and wondering how it got wet.
I had a similar situation on my unit. When the main drain line got clogged and the unit wasn't plumb. It was sucking condensate upwards into the insulated cabinet and pushed it into the ductwork.
Mine has a overflow drain hole (higher hole just above the main drain line hole) .
I can't see an overflow into the pan. How does it get into the pan if needed? Is the plug in that hole still in?
Also that stub out in the pan should go outside.

The unit has a "internal" drain pan that sits under the coil and catches condensate…….. That is what the OP had "fixed"
The sheet metal pan under the unit is an emergency (secondary) pan…… Hack job!
That "stub" COULD go outside but since there is a overflow float switch installed you don’t have to run this emergency pan to drain outside to a "visible area" like over a door or window……… I highly suggest that these overflow drain pans to go outside as "back up" to the float switch.
Condensate "coagulates" and drains will clog because of the dust being sucked in to the unit and sometimes a bug will build a nest inside the PVC drain………A high end furnace filter will help reduce the dust being sucked in and mixing with the condensate but regular MAINTENANCE is key and only takes less than 15 minutes with a shop vac and doesn't require special skills to open the unit and drop in some pan tablets.
NOT to bust ballz but "IF" the OP did maintenance the clogged line "MAY" have been prevented.…… Same goes for condensate drain lines and sunroof drains in a car.

Hope this helps! C

 

[Codyboy]

The unit has a "internal" drain pan that sits under the coil and catches condensate…….. That is what the OP had "fixed"
The sheet metal pan under the unit is an emergency (secondary) pan…… Hack job!
That "stub" COULD go outside but since there is a overflow float switch installed you don’t have to run this emergency pan to drain outside to a "visible area" like over a door or window……… I highly suggest that these overflow drain pans to go outside as "back up" to the float switch.
Condensate "coagulates" and drains will clog because of the dust being sucked in to the unit and sometimes a bug will build a nest inside the PVC drain………A high end furnace filter will help reduce the dust being sucked in and mixing with the condensate but regular MAINTENANCE is key and only takes less than 15 minutes with a shop vac and doesn't require special skills to open the unit and drop in some pan tablets.
NOT to bust ballz but "IF" the OP did maintenance the clogged line "MAY" have been prevented.…… Same goes for condensate drain lines and sunroof drains in a car.

Hope this helps! C

I understand that there's an internal main pan.
I was talking about the overflow pan and that I don't see a overflow drip tube from the unit to the pan. On mine there is the main drain from the unit. Just slightly above that on the unit is the overflow hole which has a pvc piped out and down to the overflow metal pan.
And yes whether there's a float switch or whatever that overflow pan needs to be piped outside. Switches fail and in that case will overflow the metal pan and will be a huge mess.

No idea but down here we pull tons of condensate out of the house. Clogged main, bad float switch and that overflow pan would topple over in a matter of just a couple hours or so.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

I understand that there's an internal main pan.
I was talking about the overflow pan and that I don't see a overflow drip tube from the unit to the pan. On mine there is the main drain from the unit. Just slightly above that on the unit is the overflow hole which has a pvc piped out and down to the overflow metal pan.
And yes whether there's a float switch or whatever that overflow pan needs to be piped outside. Switches fail and in that case will overflow the metal pan and will be a huge mess.

No idea but down here we pull tons of condensate out of the house. Clogged main, bad float switch and that overflow pan would topple over in a matter of just a couple hours or so.

The code says that you don’t have to install an overflow pan drain if you have a shut off float switch installed……. I have a pan drain along with a float switch on my units.

 

[dcg9381]

The code says that you don’t have to install an overflow pan drain if you have a shut off float switch installed……. I have a pan drain along with a float switch on my units.

Do this.

Code allows them to dump condensate into a sink drain also. Which works out terribly every time in my state. That drain clogs, it fills the downstairs sink and you have overflow. It's just the dumbest thing ever. It's just "pass the buck" on what overflows. Stupid stupid stupid.

First thing I did in this house (before drywall) was remove their darn AC feed to the master bath sink. Ran a dedicated line.


Here, condensation lines get clogged "frequently". If the AC guys didn't do a good job on the pan (as in the OPs case) or if you don't notice the overflow path, this can be 10k+ in damages. A cut off switch, in my opinion, is cheap insurance. As is adding chlorine tabs, which last way longer than than the "tabs" that sit in the AC unit.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

I have used these tabs for years with great results.

 

[Codyboy]

The code says that you don’t have to install an overflow pan drain if you have a shut off float switch installed……. I have a pan drain along with a float switch on my units.

Exactly. You have both. Redundancy. 1 is none 2 is one.
Yes mine has both too. I don't really care what the code says about that. I'll have both required or not.
OPs at one time just had a float switch and no overflow to the outside and just a little capped off stub.
Not sure what is has now. I'd have yo go back but I thought the float switch wasn't connected anymore.
Idk.

 

[Codyboy]

Do this.

Code allows them to dump condensate into a sink drain also. Which works out terribly every time in my state. That drain clogs, it fills the downstairs sink and you have overflow. It's just the dumbest thing ever. It's just "pass the buck" on what overflows. Stupid stupid stupid.

First thing I did in this house (before drywall) was remove their darn AC feed to the master bath sink. Ran a dedicated line.


Here, condensation lines get clogged "frequently". If the AC guys didn't do a good job on the pan (as in the OPs case) or if you don't notice the overflow path, this can be 10k+ in damages. A cut off switch, in my opinion, is cheap insurance. As is adding chlorine tabs, which last way longer than than the "tabs" that sit in the AC unit.

Yeah. They did that with mine 20 years ago. "OH yeah thats the way its always done"

Heck i didn't know any better.
First few days in the house i kept hearing this blewk blewk blewk blewk ....
Wth ? Wth is that?
Tracked it down. It was the condensate dripping into the P trap in my MB sink.
They came back and rerouted the main drain into the only available pipe which is the vent for that sink up in the attic.