Single Post Car Lift - Stuck in Lifted Position

[jbailey927]

Experts,

I have a single post lift manufactured back in the 50's that was raised while the floor guys were griding and then laying down epoxy floors. Unfortunalty now the lift is stuck in the up position.

Before attempting to lower after being up for an extended period I:
1. Cleaned all the dust off the cylinder
2. Lubed the cylinder with hydraulic fluid
3. Removed all contaminates from the colar ring at the cylinder base
4. Released all air and nothing happened

As you can see I brought in the tractor and lifted the front end of the tractor up to see if that would compress the cylinder, but eventually the hydraulics on the tractor bled out and the tires just touched back down to the floor.

I would appreciate any ideas and help on how to troubleshoot and or get the lift operational again, as it has worked in the past so I know it was operational before the floor was done.



Thanks, Ben

 

[toplessHO]

Im betting thats not enough weight.
Fill the bucket full of water after its up or sand before its up.
I bought 275 gal plastic totes for cheap that would create enough weight.

Beautiful floor,is it ok to park on now?
Might be my imagination but is the lock in up position?

 

[jbailey927]

ToplessHO,

Historically the lift would retract under its own weight, so this is net new behavior. This lift does not have a lock, part of why these were phased out.

Floor is fully cured in these pictures, thank you.

 

[DG930]

Is it fully extended? Can you bump it up a little to release whatever may be holding it?

 

[toplessHO]

You may need the extra weight to break the seal of epoxy at the base of cylinder
If it doesnt work send me a bill my ph # is BR-549

 

[jbailey927]

Is it fully extended? Can you bump it up a little to release whatever may be holding it?

Intersting, that did not occur to me, I will hook air up to it and see if i can bump it up and then get it to go back down.

 

[whateg01]

ToplessHO,

Historically the lift would retract under its own weight, so this is net new behavior. This lift does not have a lock, part of why these were phased out.

Floor is fully cured in these pictures, thank you.

I guess you do you, and I suppose air would leak out slowly maybe but I sure wouldn't want to get under a car that is only being held up by air pressure.

 

[OldDoItAll]

Could it have been rotated while partway up? If it's like the ones I had there is a stop dog on the bottom of the cylinder and the two bearings the cylinder rides in has grooves. To remove the cylinder you raise till it stops(with a hoist not air) then rotate till the dog passes through the groove, repeat for the second bearing.
If it was raised while being rotated the dog could have passed through the bearing and when rotated back and lowered the dog is now sitting on top of the lower bearing.
The ones I had had a safety pipe with stops that kept it from being rotated while in use.
Wouldn't dream of using one without that pipe.

 

[jbailey927]

Whateg01 - I have never had a vehicle on this lift, but have used it over the years for all kinds of random stuff. Yes, these lifts were dangerous and did bleed air over time.

OldDoItAll - I raised it, so not during the lift, the floor guys could have played with it and rotated it while they were working on the floor, another intersting point. As far as I can tell this is an early model that does not have a single safety. Before this issue you could rotate the boster by hand quite easily, now it wont rotate at all.

 

[Wrench97]

Did it raise after the floor was done?

 

[OldDoItAll]

Disconnect the air and see if your tractor will lift it, if so, rotate 90 degrees and try to lower it. The groove in the bearing may not be at 90 so you might have to hunt for it.
Can you tell if the lift is 2-3" higher than usual?

 

[jbailey927]

Wrench97 - It was raised before they started and stayed up during the entire time they were working on the floor and then I went on vacation and it stayed up much to my fault, I should have made sure it got put down as soon as the floor was OK to walk on.

 

[Wrench97]

See if it will go up now, I'm wondering if they got some paint in it and glued to the dust seal packing just like a stuck window.

 

[jbailey927]

Wrench97 - Before I tried to lower it I wiped all the dust off the cylinder and "oiled" it and there was no epoxy or anything near the seal packing and cylinder. DG930 also suggested raising it, so I will try that tonight when I get home from work.

OldDoItAll - My lift does not have groves in the cylinder, it can free rotate at any lifted height. It does not appear to be any heigher than normal. My understanding of these old lifts is there is a stop ring on the bottom of the cylinder that should prevent the cylinder from coming out that would essentially prevent what you are talking about. But I could be wrong.

 

[OldDoItAll]

The cylinder should have enough oil on it to keep the epoxy from sticking.
I don't recommend trying to raise it using air. If the stop is indeed above the lower bearing the cylinder will rise above the pool of oil. Without the dampening of the oil leaving the small hole in the bottom the cylinder it will rise violently.

 

[OldDoItAll]

Wrench97 - Before I tried to lower it I wiped all the dust off the cylinder and "oiled" it and there was no epoxy or anything near the seal packing and cylinder. DG930 also suggested raising it, so I will try that tonight when I get home from work.

OldDoItAll - My lift does not have groves in the cylinder, it can free rotate at any lifted height. It does not appear to be any heigher than normal. My understanding of these old lifts is there is a stop ring on the bottom of the cylinder that should prevent the cylinder from coming out that would essentially prevent what you are talking about. But I could be wrong.

Could be. The ones I worked with 50 years ago had a solid cast iron outer casing. The only way to get the cylinder in or out, with the stop on it, was to have grooves cut onto the bearings for the stop to pass through. the grooves were arranged 90 degrees from each other and the bottom bearing groove was 90 degrees from normal operating position.

 

[nadogail]

I have seen hydraulic cylinders stuck in the extended position because they were jammed. The jamming was caused by misalignment due to the wear on both the piston at the end of the ram and the gland where the rod exits the end of the cylinder.

One Die Cutting press was fully extended and the springs would not retract it. It was cutting cloth pieces to be sewn into stuffed dolls. I told the factory owner about how an engineer billed $500 for hitting a relay box with a hammer.

When questioned he rewrote the bill, $5.00 for hitting the box, $495 for knowing where to hit.

I gave the extended plattan a solid rap with a BFH and the vibration allowed the springs to retract the ram.

I then explained that the cylinder needed to be rebuilt, Until then they could buy their own hammer.

The factory was billed for a minimum Service Call.

 

[BillK]

We had a single post lift at my first shop and it would do the same thing sometimes if we lifted it up to clean the floor etc. Oil up the cylinder real good and see if you can twist it a little while you put down pressure on it. Its probably just stuck on the cylinder seal.

 

[mikegt4]

Back in the late '60's I worked part time in a gas station on weekends which had lifts similar to the one in question. IIRC, our lift had to be raised slightly to clear a safety lock before lowering much like modern 2 and 4 post lifts.

 

[CJM8515]

i worked at a shop that had similar lifts that would jamb sometimes. we would have to make sure they were aligned and then lower and raise at the same time and play with it till it went down

 

[jbailey927]

Thank you everyone, I put some air in lift tonight and started banging on to rotate it with a sledge with a hard rubber head. After a moment it rotated a little and started to retract, after working it back and forth whenever it stopped I was able to get it all the way down.

I think that the cylinder was stuck to the seal. I need to move a four post behind the single before messing with it again, but am hoping I can get that moved tomorrow and then run it up and down a couple of times and that should get everything lubed back up and working again.

Got to love stuff you can pound on with a sledge and get working again. Thank you all for your advice and input. I'll let you know if I have any additional issues.

Thanks, Ben

 

[c39er]

Years ago (10?) I posted all the Rotary single post in ground lift instructions here on this site. All in one air over hydraulic...type A..
no separate oil tank.

 

[jbailey927]

Apparently what I thought was the oil reservior was not, it was actually the bottom of the anti rotator - so when I could see oil in there and thought it looked full it was just oil in a shallow pit below where the rod connected to the cylinder collar in the floor.

I had scheduled a tech to come and look at the lift when I thought it was stuck and I didnt cancel him coming out. He put 30 gallons of AW32 in and now the lift works great with no sticking or jumping on the way up or down, and I actually know how to check the level of the hydraulic fluid - which arguably I should have been able to do before ever using it, yes I know.

So C39er, apparetly I could have searched for your instructions and used them as mine does not have a seperate tank and shaft.

I also had him take off the "plate" at the top and going to get the plate and "arms" powder coated along with an old floor standing vice. I'll post a picture when all put back together when done as a thank you for all those that provided assistance and input.

Ben

 

[BillK]

He put 30 gallons of AW32 in and now the lift works great with no sticking or jumping on the way up or down, and I actually know how to check the level of the hydraulic fluid - which arguably I should have been able to do before ever using it, yes I know.

Now all you have to worry about is where the original 30 gallons of oil went to

 

[jbailey927]

I mean - the last time somebody would have looked at it was my father in law before he passed in 2007. Lift was installed in 99, and I have no idea how much hydraulic fluid he put in originally. I do not ever remember him talking about checking levels or doing ANY maintenance on the lift. So lets call it 1 gallon a year lost to general seepage, lubrication, etc.... Doesnt seem overly upsetting. Now, if I check it in a year and need to add 30 gallons... I 100% agree, thats a different conversation. We can talk superfund in a year BillK.

 

[Wrench97]

I've seen the end results of lifts that leaked for years.......It was a big hole before they decided it was cleaned up about 10 trailer loads of dirt sent to the incinerator....

 

[racecougar]

So lets call it 1 gallon a year lost to general seepage, lubrication, etc.... Doesnt seem overly upsetting.

The EPA would disagree.

 

[Fixr]

The EPA would disagree.

Yes

I've seen the end results of lifts that leaked for years.......It was a big hole before they decided it was cleaned up about 10 trailer loads of dirt sent to the incinerator....

It can be quite a bit more than that. 30 gallons of hydraulic fluid can get into the water table and contaminate drinking water if the soil is permeable enough or if there is a crack in bedrock. That much fluid didn't evaporate, it's leaking. It may be well contained by the soil, or it may not. I used to work for a company that remediated that stuff. It could get extremely expensive to clean up, although the state may have a fund that would beat much of the cost. I do not recommend refilling the reservoir with hydraulic oil. I do recommend pumping out all of it. There may be a vegetable based oil that would work in that application.

I also recommend discreetly investigating what the state Environmental Quality agency defined as a "reportable release", and if it's above 30 gallons, leave well enough alone.

 

[toplessHO]

another reason why they were discontinued,no double walled containment