ZMotorsports Shop Projects 2.0

[zmotorsports]

The wife and I weren't able to take off for our annual fall trip down to the San Rafael Swell area this year due to work scheduled not meshing, so we've parked the coach a little earlier than normal. However, we took a few days and made a "mini-vacation" out of them. We opted to take day trips and splurge a bit on dining out at a few of our favorite places and we agreed no work while we were at home, just relax and enjoy our time together. I think the only time I stepped foot in the shop was to put some fluids and filters out in the shop for the annual coach maintenance.

My wife had an eye appt. early Friday morning so afterwards we had a hearty breakfast.


Then headed about 80-miles northeast up towards Evanston, WY and then over to Bear River Ranger Station area where we left the pavement. The week before the area was dusted with snow, but the trails were nice and dry.


I don't think we could have picked a nicer day to explore the Uintah Mountains. The skies were clear and blue, but I think we missed the fall colors by a few weeks as they had pretty much run their course.


There was absolutely no one out and about. We had each of the side roads all to ourselves and only passed a few people on the Mirror Lake Highway (Hwy 150).





As we were approaching the summit we both mentioned that we were nearing the Highline Trail trailhead. My wife and I have followed a podcast called the Uintah Triangle last year that was exceptionally done by a local news personality who is also a hiker named Dave Cawley. This area nicknamed the "Uintah Triangle" has gained popularity over the past year or so due to this podcast in particular. However, there have been many people over the years fall victim to this area of the Uintah Mountains, mainly due to its remoteness, how easy it is to become disorientated and especially how fast the weather changes on a regular basis. As much time as the wife and I have spent in this area over our lifetime, both before we met with our families and during our 37 years of marriage, we have always given it the respect it deserves. We snowmobiled this area or nearly 20-years and during that time we always gave the area the respect it deserved. There were areas we simply did not venture into if certain conditions existed and in some cases, avoided this area altogether and rode elsewhere.

We have spent much more time in these mountains in the winter months compared to the summer months, but the area has been known to make people disappear. Numerous hikers and explorers have fallen victim to not returning home and many have never been seen again. I can't begin to count the number of people who've become lost in this area over the past 30 or so years, including several Boy Scouts, a couple of younger people had wandered off from their group, young adult hikers and the most publicized was a Australian explorer named Eric Robinson who came here in the summer of 2011 specifically to hike the Highline Trail. His wife usually hiked with him, but did not come on this particular trip.

After listening to the podcast and hearing the route he took as we followed along closely, many of the areas sounded familiar as well as many did not as the wife and I have not actually hiked the Highline Trail, we have only seen small segments of the trail but are familiar of the names of some of the small lakes in the area and listened with great interest as the area was described and his route was explored. If anyone is interested I highly recommend listening to the Uintah Triangle podcast as it is quite interesting.

Anyway, we just had to pull into the trailhead and sat and looked around at the cliffs and area described during the podcast.








Stay tuned for more pictures to follow.

 

[zmotorsports]

Continuing on.


After leaving the Highline Trail trailhead, we hit the pavement again and continued over towards the upper falls area. As we pulled into the small parking area, we again noted that there wasn't another soul around and we can't remember the last time we saw this area so sparsely populated. The last time we drove over this mountain pass in the Camaro, there wasn't a single parking spot available and people were parking alongside the highway, but I surely was not going to do that, so we passed on this area. We had the entire area all to ourselves on Friday, so we went for a nice little hike down to the falls.

We both reminisced about playing on these rocks near the water fall when we were young.


The water falls were less impressive this late in the season, but water was still flowing.




We pulled off at a small kettle pond and stretched our legs before heading down into Kamas for dinner. It had been a long day and we covered some miles, but the sun was beginning to set and I don't like driving down off this mountain in the dark due to how many animals wander across the road.


It was dusk when we came off the mountain and into Kamas, UT to one of our favorite little diners. Being Friday night, they also had my favorite dinner available.



They were busy, but the wife and I enjoyed a nice meal and then headed back home which was about 80 miles yet.


Thanks for looking.

 

[zmotorsports]

I hit my son up to see if he and my grandson wanted to break bread on Saturday morning, so I was able to meet them before the wife and left for the day. I enjoy our breakfast meets on the weekends and something I hope my grandson continues to look forward to.


After breakfast the wife and I took off and headed up Ogden Canyon as we decided to do some exploring right in our own backyard for a change. I really feel guilty because we are so eager to hop in the coach and take off for areas several hundred miles away to go off-road, yet we seldom ever just explore our own backyard. During our years of snowmobiling we played in these areas a lot, but don't really explore or enjoy this area during the warmer months when there's no snow. I think we are going to have to change that and do more exploring on weekends, at least starting next year as I doubt we'll be able to get back up there this year as snow has just began for the season.

Saturday was a bit overcast, but wasn't supposed to rain until later in the evening. Here we stopped at the turnoff for Ant Flat road to air down. There were several trailers whom had dropped side by sides and ATV's in the area so we knew we wouldn't have the area all to ourselves like the previous day.


We headed towards Hardware Ranch, which is a rather large elk reserve and has sleigh rides in the winter time. When our son was younger, we'd drop the sleds at the gate closure where we aired down, then ride the snowmobiles over to Hardware Ranch where they used to have a small cafeteria inside that served chili in bread bowls. This was our "splurge" for the weekends many times as we would have lunch and then take a horse drawn sleigh ride out through the middle of the elk before hopping back on the snowmobiles and heading back to the truck. They no longer offer eating in the building and the cafeteria closed about 10 years ago, but I think it might still be fun to take our grandson over there one Saturday when they are doing the sleigh rides and let him see all of the elk.

After we hit the visitor's center at Hardware Ranch, we climbed quickly up to the mountain pass where the trail divides. This was an all knew area to the wife and I as we didn't venture this far back in during our snowmobiling days. I had the NFS trails downloaded on my tablet and I was amazed at all of the forest service roads to choose from. We just explored for hours and hours.


As we dropped down we hit the trail that was going to take us into Laketown, near Bear Lake, which was the goal for the day. As we turned right to go down this ravine, I began looking closer at the tablet as it was still too early to hit the pavement.



As I was scrolling through the maps I ran across one landmark that both the wife and I remembered from our youth as well as one trip we took our son to see. There was a large grizzly bear named Old Ephraim that raised havoc to the farmer's livestock around the early 1900's that we used to hear about. There is a large monument dedicated to this grizzly bear in the area. I remember one snowmobiling trip that we went on with my aunt, uncle and cousins that they led us to the monument, but I don't think I could have found it again without a map and I have never been to it when there wasn't 6+ feet of snow on the ground. Matter of fact, the only time I ever saw the monument was when it had only a couple feet sticking up and out of the snow.

When I mentioned to the wife that I found the grave site on the map and I thought we could get there by going down this canyon, she didn't even hesitate and insisted we take the detour and go to Old Ephraim's Grave.


It was really a cool little canyon as we dropped down in elevation.


The grave site was quite a bit further than we realized as we headed down into a canyon, then up and over another small saddle or pass.


Then down into one last canyon.




Stay tuned for a few more pictures.

 

[zmotorsports]

Continuing on.

As we dropped down into the canyon, we came across the grave site and monument. This was the first time I had ever seen the monument without snow, so I saw the "whole" monument this time and it was impressive. the monument is as tall as Old Ephraim was standing on his hind legs.


The inscription on the monument.


For a size reference of the size of the bear, my wife is 5'6" tall, so nearly two of her.


After leaving the grave site, we headed towards the pavement as we still had about 8 or so miles to cover and it was late afternoon by this time.


After hitting the pavement, we aired up and tried to make reservations at another one of our favorite restaurants, but they didn't have anything available, so we opted to hit another of our finds for Mexican food. They did not disappoint either.


Upon returning home late Saturday night, it began to rain and rained much of the night. We were able to enjoy our coffee on the deck while it rained until our kids stopped by for a visit.


The leaves from our trees are beginning to fall.


Thanks for looking.

 

[zanyad]

At car shows I let folks sit in my car and especially youngsters. I want the next generation to enjoy them like I have.

the best part of owning a nice/fun car is letting kids that are excited sit in it for a few min and get their pictures taken. The joy it brings them is infectious and I look at it as fueling the next generation of car lovers.

Whenever I take one of my nice cars out I'm happy to let people sit in them and get photos and if they are younger kids I keep a stock of hotwheels cars in the trunk and let them pick one out. I do this for a few reasons but keeping the hobby alive so there is someone to buy them from my estate is part of it too.

If I'm out somewhere and there are some young kids that seem excited about the car, and they are well behaved, I'll offer them to sit in it.

Gentlemen, I'm very thankful for your willingness to let my progeny sit in your cars! They do love it, and the older one is really turning into a car buff!

Don't get me wrong, Mike, I do also understand your unwillingness to let strangers in your vehicles. I am fully aware of how rambunctious and careless my boys can be!

 

[rd65]

Impressive pics as always. Thanks for sharing.

 

[zmotorsports]

Impressive pics as always. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you. It wasn't our usual fall trip/getaway, but my wonderful wife insisted that we make a long weekend/mini-vacation out of it and we had a great time. Didn't want the weekend to end.

 

[Mr.zippy]

Thank you. It wasn't our usual fall trip/getaway, but my wonderful wife insisted that we make a long weekend/mini-vacation out of it and we had a great time. Didn't want the weekend to end.

Yeah the waterfall/creek photos were incredible! That's almost close enough to me to warrant a visit someday. But like you Mike, we have many great places close by that we never take the time to go see. I Need to remedy that.

 

[bigdave_185]

Gentlemen, I'm very thankful for your willingness to let my progeny sit in your cars! They do love it, and the older one is really turning into a car buff!

Don't get me wrong, Mike, I do also understand your unwillingness to let strangers in your vehicles. I am fully aware of how rambunctious and careless my boys can be!

This exactly why I always make a point to blow my air horns when I see a kid fist pumping out a car window or walking down the street

There is an elementary school by a gravel pit I frequent. The kids at recess all run to the fence when I come by and I tell ya what!! Nothing make a terrible road day go from bad to great then a wall of kids getting me to honk the train horns!!

Good catching up here @zmotorsports

 

[bugnut]

Mike, thanks for another great trip report. Love the backroads travels you share.

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, thanks for another great trip report. Love the backroads travels you share.

Thank you for continuing to follow along Joel.

While we were exploring over the weekend, the wife asked me if this was really what I enjoyed now that we've sold all of the powersports and race car. I told her that there are times I wish I would have pursued the racing a bit more because I do miss that, but our bank account is much better for leaving it in the rear view.

As for exploring off-road, I actually enjoy it much more than the snowmobiling or duning, a lot more to be honest. When we duned or sledded, we dropped the toys at the parking area and took off, then took the same route back to the truck and trailer or coach and trailer. Although it was fun at the time and I hope our son enjoyed it, it was usually similar routes and same scenery. Being able to air down at one point and travel 30+ miles down canyons and up and over mountain passes and come out several canyons away to air up and hit pavement again is so much more enjoyable. I love the scenery and I have discovered that I don't necessarily need that "rush" I got from the racing, or ripping around a bowl at the dunes or up a hillside trying to highmark on a sled. Different, but I think I actually enjoy this much more.

My wife mentioned that even when we were dating that we explored off-road which we enjoyed together, but it seemed like once we got married and started getting established I had to have all the toys to feel successful. Now I feel like we've gone full circle and come back to a much more simplistic style of enjoying the outdoors and I love it. No matter whether we hook up the Jeep to the coach and travel hundreds or thousands of miles away, or right in our backyard, I love taking the Jeep off-road and just exploring. I never thought going 3 or 4 MPH would be so much fun.

 

[zmotorsports]

Last night was the first time in the shop in a few days so I was able to get the Shelby GT500 rear end completely disassembled, enough to determine the failure(s) so I can get parts ordered.

Seeing as though there is an excessive .018" of backlash, I wanted to run a pattern to see what the mesh looked like between the pinion and the ring gear teeth. Painted up about 4 teeth.


Drug the gears through a few revolutions in each direction and didn't like what I saw. Even if you discount the high riding heel on the drive side and low riding toe on the coast side, the mesh seems to be favoring the face of the tooth much more than it should. I like to see them deeper in the root of the teeth and this runs off the face of the teeth.


Coast side also runs off the face, but at the toe of the gear.


Both of the Ford 8.8's I've done in the past several years have had the crosspin retaining bolt broken in the case so I wanted to give this one every opportunity to come out in one piece. A little heat to soften the thread locker.


And then it actually started to come right out. I worried because the last Shelby GT500 I did felt the same way, but the bolt was broken deeper down in the threads, so I wasn't going to sigh a relief until I saw the entire bolt come out.


Sigh. I will still buy a new retaining bolt, but at least it came out in one piece.


With the axle shafts removed I like to check the splines to ensure they are straight. Also, with as much debris as there was floating around in this fluid, I wanted to inspect the surface where the outer axle bearings ride as the axle shaft IS the inner race on those bearings. All looked good with the axle shafts.


The carrier bearings not so much. They didn't look all that great. I think I found the source of the noise, or at least part of the noise.


The corresponding race didn't look the greatest either.


The right side carrier bearing itself seemed to look ok, other than it just looked as though it had high miles.




Stay tuned for more.

 

[zmotorsports]

Continuing on.

The race for the right side carrier bearing was just starting to exhibit similar wear, but not as severe as the left carrier bearing, yet.


With the carrier out of the rear end, I spun the pinion and although it felt like it still had some preload, it sounded horrible so before removing, I already pretty much knew what the pinion bearings and races were going to look like. You'd never guess this rear end only had 30k miles, looks more like 230k miles.


I removed the inner pinion bearing to gain access to the shim to complete my preliminary notes upon disassembly.


Inner pinion race.


Outer pinion race.


Pinion bearings and races.


Another thing that jumped out at me on this rear end vs. the last Shelby GT500 rear end, this one actually has mix-matched bearings and races. The last one had Koyo bearings and races on the carrier and Timken bearings and races on the pinion. This one actually has a mix of Koyo races and Timken bearings on both the pinion and the carrier. Odd.


The right side carrier bearing came right off with no issues.


The more damaged left side carrier bearing didn't come off in one piece. There was so much slop in the bearing that it peeled the cage right off allowing the rollers to fall out. Maybe for the best, because it allowed a good visual of the inner race of the bearing which looks much worse than the outer race.


Rollers from the left side carrier bearing.



Now to get the parts ordered and perform a thorough cleaning of the housing and the parts while awaiting parts.

Thanks for looking.

 

[HEEP]

Continuing on.

The race for the right side carrier bearing was just starting to exhibit similar wear, but not as severe as the left carrier bearing, yet.


With the carrier out of the rear end, I spun the pinion and although it felt like it still had some preload, it sounded horrible so before removing, I already pretty much knew what the pinion bearings and races were going to look like. You'd never guess this rear end only had 30k miles, looks more like 230k miles.


I removed the inner pinion bearing to gain access to the shim to complete my preliminary notes upon disassembly.


Inner pinion race.


Outer pinion race.


Pinion bearings and races.


Another thing that jumped out at me on this rear end vs. the last Shelby GT500 rear end, this one actually has mix-matched bearings and races. The last one had Koyo bearings and races on the carrier and Timken bearings and races on the pinion. This one actually has a mix of Koyo races and Timken bearings on both the pinion and the carrier. Odd.


The right side carrier bearing came right off with no issues.


The more damaged left side carrier bearing didn't come off in one piece. There was so much slop in the bearing that it peeled the cage right off allowing the rollers to fall out. Maybe for the best, because it allowed a good visual of the inner race of the bearing which looks much worse than the outer race.


Rollers from the left side carrier bearing.



Now to get the parts ordered and perform a thorough cleaning of the housing and the parts while awaiting parts.

Thanks for looking.

So no one has been in this rearend before? What did the customer state on type of oil or maintenance on this?

 

[zmotorsports]

So no one has been in this rearend before? What did the customer state on type of oil or maintenance on this?

No, no one has been in this particular rear end before. He is the third owner, has owned it for just over 3 years but knows the first two owners, all are neighbors and have shared the maintenance records.

I have done a couple of these Shelby GT500's now and my theory is improper setup. I know that is hard to believe coming from the factory, but upon a lot of research on several forums, there is a large number of these that when new the original owners had them into the dealerships multiple times to get noises addressed. Several had the dealerships tear the rear ends apart and reshim multiple times, however, after an incorrect wear pattern begins, the chances of moving the engagement and having success is quite remote. A couple that I read mentioned that Ford would not authorize under warranty a ring and pinion replacement but they did authorize an entire rear end assembly replacement and that solved the issue they were having. Many from my reading and research have just lived with the setup. Some of the dealerships even told the original owners that it's a race car and they aren't going to be as quiet as a sedan so "you'll just have to live with it", and they have.

Upon the findings on the last one I did, there was absolutely no pinion preload (PPL) and the carrier preload (CPL) was abnormally high, as it very tight. I relieved some of the carrier preload but I think it was setup incorrectly from the factory.

On this one, the pinion preload was a little on the loose side, but not not terrible and it at least had some preload @ 3 in/lbs. However, the carrier was sloppy in the bearing caps and the backlash was very excessive @ .018", specification should be .008"-.012". Upon seeing the carrier bearings after removing the carrier, I think the carrier preload was again, excessive from the factory, which resulted in failure of the carrier bearing and therefore allowing the excessive backlash. Then the debris from the failed/failing bearings flowed throughout the remainder of the bearings in the rear end, pinion in particular, causing excessive wear giving them the appearance and indication of high mileage bearing wear.

There is also a bit more wear than I would prefer on the teeth of the ring gear, so the owner has agreed to replacement of the ring and pinion as well as all of the bearings.

 

[HEEP]

Sounds like the owner has made a good decision on replacing everything. I am sure when you are finished, it will be perfect.

 

[zmotorsports]

Sounds like the owner has made a good decision on replacing everything. I am sure when you are finished, it will be perfect.

Thank you. Yes, the owner of this car is a completely different personality than the owner of the last Shelby I did. If the last owner never crossed the threshold of my shop door again, it would be too soon.

 

[Jgaz]

Thank you. Yes, the owner of this car is a completely different personality than the owner of the last Shelby I did. If the last owner never crossed the threshold of my shop door again, it would be too soon.

That’s very sad. He must be a real ******* to not realize how lucky he really was to have your caliber of work preformed on his vehicle.

 

[zmotorsports]

That’s very sad. He must be a real ******* to not realize how lucky he really was to have your caliber of work preformed on his vehicle.

It's partially my own fault. From the first interaction with him all he did was beat me up on pricing, but then in the same breath complained about the previous shop's work. I told him I wasn't a "budget" shop, that I felt like I was honest and that I felt like I did above average work and just charge by time and materials. I think I remember posting something about not having to sell myself so hard before on that particular job. Looking back, I wish I simply would have told him to take it elsewhere as I didn't need that BS. He was definitely a piece of work and one of the most difficult clients I have had in a very long time.

 

[HEEP]

Sometimes, it is just not worth it. People amaze me.

 

[SilverJimmy]

Mike, I had a customer that so fed up with difficult customers he actually shut his shop down and told everyone that they needed to find someone else to do their work. Then he quietly built a new shop at his home. When it was finished he started calling the people that he liked and that appreciated his level of impeccable work. He would just ask them to keep the fact that he was working on cars again “just between us..”! If you called him his answering machine message was quite simple… “Thank you for calling XXXX Import Auto Repair. If you are not an existing customer, you probably won’t be one. If you are, please leave a message!” He was not being arrogant, he was just being honest, right up front!
The only way to become a customer was thru either a family member or thru very stringent recommendation. To combat guys like your 1st Shelby guy, if he gave someone a price for a job and they balked about the cost he simply rechecked his schedule sheet and then informed the customer that actually he wouldn’t be able to do their job for more than a month or two and that they should look for someone else. And then he never worked for them again!
I asked him why he was so hard nosed about his policy and he explained it to me. He said that he was completely honest with people and that when he gave a quote for a repair if they questioned his quote, they were actually questioning his honesty, and he wouldn’t tolerate that abuse.
Please understand that this guy did work that was at your level. He had a 4 bay shop with two lifts and he was busy all the time. When he and his wife retired he donated his home and the shop to their church, the home is now where the minister lives and the shop is now a classroom for Sunday School.

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, I had a customer that so fed up with difficult customers he actually shut his shop down and told everyone that they needed to find someone else to do their work. Then he quietly built a new shop at his home. When it was finished he started calling the people that he liked and that appreciated his level of impeccable work. He would just ask them to keep the fact that he was working on cars again “just between us..”! If you called him his answering machine message was quite simple… “Thank you for calling XXXX Import Auto Repair. If you are not an existing customer, you probably won’t be one. If you are, please leave a message!” He was not being arrogant, he was just being honest, right up front!
The only way to become a customer was thru either a family member or thru very stringent recommendation. To combat guys like your 1st Shelby guy, if he gave someone a price for a job and they balked about the cost he simply rechecked his schedule sheet and then informed the customer that actually he wouldn’t be able to do their job for more than a month or two and that they should look for someone else. And then he never worked for them again!
I asked him why he was so hard nosed about his policy and he explained it to me. He said that he was completely honest with people and that when he gave a quote for a repair if they questioned his quote, they were actually questioning his honesty, and he wouldn’t tolerate that abuse.
Please understand that this guy did work that was at your level. He had a 4 bay shop with two lifts and he was busy all the time. When he and his wife retired he donated his home and the shop to their church, the home is now where the minister lives and the shop is now a classroom for Sunday School.

Sterling, the bold sections sound SO familiar and I can very much relate. Part of our decision to close our speed shop down was because we were moving, but a large part was I was tired of dealing with the public. I had fired enough clients that it was beginning to feel like the pro's didn't outweigh the con's of doing work for others anymore. When I shut our business down and was informing my clients, I had many that said "but you'll still work on mine right? Wink, wink, nod, nod". Unfortunately, I simply quit working on everyone's stuff, no exceptions. I felt sick that I even had to explain myself as many wouldn't take no for an answer, however I had also become quite close with many of these people as well and very much enjoyed working on some of their stuff, whereas others not so much. I think my wife was tired of people stopping by at all hours and many just to BS or see if they could steal a few minutes of my time on "hey man job". She was glad when I closed the shop down, but I did miss a lot of the aspects. However, I knew the next several years would be hectic building the new shop, putting the yard in and just keeping our own **** running the way I wanted.

After several years I ran into a past client who asked me if I would do a few odd jobs for them as they had taken their stuff to several other shops and were less than satisfied with the results and workmanship. I was flattered and agreed, then one thing led to another and I had a waiting list again for a few past clients. The wife got concerned because she knows I can get burned out at times between work and side work so I think she had reason to be concerned. I promised her a few "ground rules" if I decided to take on some side work. Rules like our stuff comes first and when I say our stuff, that extends to include our son's stuff as well. I also agreed that I would not take any work on unless they were a referral from a past client or someone I knew. I didn't just want my number out there to anyone and being our home, I didn't want just anyone stopping by unannounced. I would work by appointment only, similar to when I had our business and lastly, if there was something I didn't want to do or someone I didn't do work for, that I simply would decline and not feel like I "had to" such as when I had our business. I think that last one was difficult for me at times as I felt obligated.

I have made a few exceptions to the rules since then, but stuck to them for the most part. The last Shelby actually did come from a referral but he was a pain and did nothing but complain about price and how he is on a fixed income, like that was somehow my fault or problem. I completely understand being on a budget and try to be honest with people on what they need to do now vs. what can wait, but I also don't go around crying poverty preying on the sympathy of others to help me out. I think some people have mastered that behavior and have become dependent on it. They are basically takers. I mentioned to him after one lengthy conversation where I was getting beat up on pricing, that if he was on such a tight budget, that a sports car would NOT have been the best car to purchase. I don't think he cared for the comment, but I believe in honesty, plus he was ******* me off at the time.

The wife and I have had lengthy conversations about doing side work once we get to retirement and my feelings are I would still like to, but because I want to, not because I feel like I "have to". Right now, in some ways I kind of feel like I "have to" because I did a bit more playing in my early years and didn't buckle down as much as I should have until about 20 or so years ago, so now to some extent I am playing makeup.

 

[Mr.zippy]

Mike, when retirement comes, and all your stuff is paid for, it will feel as if the weight of the world is off your shoulders. I bet you will feel at that point, you can do as you please. And no bad feelings for telling someone, even close clients what your terms will be...if any at that. You will be just fine!

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, when retirement comes, and all your stuff is paid for, it will feel as if the weight of the world is off your shoulders. I bet you will feel at that point, you can do as you please. And no bad feelings for telling someone, even close clients what your terms will be...if any at that. You will be just fine!

Thank you. I am feeling good about the path we are currently on as the only debt we have is our mortgage, which is quickly dropping as we are able to put a good amount extra on it each month.

We actually were debt free for about 11 years after we paid our first home off in 2006, but prior to that between racing and having quite a few toys, I often feel like I played too much and invested too little earlier in life. I can attest that having that debt monkey off a person's back is a great feeling, but even then, I never did feel like I could do as I please, there were/are still obligations needing attention. We tried to make up for the earlier years during those 11 years that followed without a mortgage, but then in late 2016 we purchased our current home. In about 5 weeks it will be 9 years exactly we have been in this house and if we stay the course, we should have this one paid off in about 2.5 more years.

Mine and my wife's goal has been to go into retirement knowing that I didn't "have to" do work for others so if/when I do take on side work, it will solely be because I want to.

 

[ntsqd]

Grandad frequently commented to me that he was busier after retiring than he was before. I foresee where you might not have time for some of those jobs after retiring as simply being retired consumes an incredible amount of time.

Unless you fail retirement. That happens in my family too. Mom has failed once, grandad twice, and I think my sister is about to.

 

[CGarage]

Mike, now that you are completely finished, may I suggest a coat of bed liner on the top side of the new cradle before re-installation?

You have to be kidding…..

 

[madison069]

I hear you on getting debt free. As long as we can sell the current house for what it’s currently worth, we will be debt free and we can just take care of retirement and home repairs/remodeling as we can afford them.

Plus we have two kids in college currently, who are doing everything to pay for the majority of their college bills. But I see we will be helping them out in the future. So, soon we hope to be in a position to help them.

It all hinges on us moving back to the other place and selling the current home. If we didn’t move back, we would probably have the mortgage paid in 5 years. But, we rather just sell and be done.

 

[rharman]

< snip >

I have made a few exceptions to the rules since then, but stuck to them for the most part. The last Shelby actually did come from a referral but he was a pain and did nothing but complain about price and how he is on a fixed income, like that was somehow my fault or problem. I completely understand being on a budget and try to be honest with people on what they need to do now vs. what can wait, but I also don't go around crying poverty preying on the sympathy of others to help me out.

< /snip >

That line has always irked me. I was a salaried employee for the vast majority of my working lifetime. So, technically, I was always on a "fixed income". Yeah, if you have the opportunity for overtime, you can sometimes get more but not if you're salaried.

With Social Security, I'm still on a "fixed income", just less than before.

 

[MP&C]

........Then headed about 80-miles northeast up towards Evanston, WY and then over to Bear River Ranger Station area where we left the pavement.

During my cross country jaunt last year when I drove home with the shop truck, I noticed the state of Wyoming had numerous exits off the interstate that went absolutely nowhere. Your comment reminded me of that, and it looks like "off the pavement" is exactly where the destination was for all those exits.

 

[bugnut]

Sterling, i really appreciate this, a bit different that what I have long thought.

He said that he was completely honest with people and that when he gave a quote for a repair if they questioned his quote, they were actually questioning his honesty, and he wouldn’t tolerate that abuse.

All, if you are not familiar with this take a google: I am a firm believer, and as such I treat my craftsman, and skilled tradesman as such.

Why Fire a Customer​

Customers should be encouraged to go elsewhere for one of three reasons: they're costing you too much economically, too much emotionally, or they are violating a key value of your organization. Let’s examine each reason in detail.

 

[signcrafter]

Life got a lot less stressful when I started picking and choosing what work I do, or more so who's vehicles I will work on. I've always enjoyed working on vehicles and when people would ask me to work on their cars I took the work on in order to buy new tools and bring in a few extra dollars. I didn't run it like a business and didn't charge business rates. That drew a lot of people that ended up being a pain to deal with. Once I started running it like a real business and charging close to what other shops in town are charging and going by book time when doing estimates it got rid of all the bottom feeders. This brought in more money and also less stress. I don't do this to pay my bills so I don't have to accept all repairs or worry about turning down work. Once I started thinking like that life got a lot better. Working on vehicles got more enjoyable and the shop kept growing. This left me with people that just drop their vehicles off and say to let them know when it's done and what the final bill is. Also got rid of the people that bring you rusted out junk that want it fixed for next to nothing.

I had told everyone that I was moving and once I moved most of my tools 6 hours away I wouldn't be doing anymore work. But I still keep getting calls to do work and have been accepting most of them because it's helping pay for the move and to set up the new shop.

 

[zmotorsports]

I hear you on getting debt free. As long as we can sell the current house for what it’s currently worth, we will be debt free and we can just take care of retirement and home repairs/remodeling as we can afford them.

Plus we have two kids in college currently, who are doing everything to pay for the majority of their college bills. But I see we will be helping them out in the future. So, soon we hope to be in a position to help them.

It all hinges on us moving back to the other place and selling the current home. If we didn’t move back, we would probably have the mortgage paid in 5 years. But, we rather just sell and be done.

Good for you Cody. That will be a great feeling as we've been there and will be soon enough. It's a great feeling to be able to help your kids get their start in life and we can only hope that someday they will be grateful for that sacrifice and devotion. Unfortunately, many won't give it that much thought, at least until they are parents themselves and faced with the same decisions and dilemmas, then maybe they realize what their parents did for them.

The wife and I had a plan differed from some people when our son was young. Many people start a college fund for their kids, which I think is a great idea, our plan just differed in the fact that our goal was go get the mortgage paid off while he was in High School so when he was ready to start college we could pay for it and he could finish with his degree without having any college debt nor any debt whatsoever. What he chose to do with that degree and from there on was all on him, but I felt it was our responsibility to at least get him ready for the world. Our plan worked out well for us, and hopefully he feels it was worth it and worked out for him. We were able to also really start putting money away and investing about that same time, although there are times I think we were a little late to the party, which is why we are making up for it now.

The new house really threw a wrinkle in our original plan. The way we looked at it was that by being debt free and our son out of college and making his own future, we would be able to stockpile money away and probably retire around 57-58 years of age. Unfortunately that plan changed, but I choose to look at it as fortunately. Had we stuck to our original plan we would have stayed at our old home and still be there and I'm sure we'd be miserable by the neighbors around us.

However, we weighed the options very closely back in early 2016 and after making a list of the pro's and con's of staying vs. moving, we made the decision to move knowing very clearly that it would definitely extend our working well into our mid-60's, but we felt like the peace of mind and "IF" we could find our dream house and turn it into our dream home, that it would be worth it. Once we made the decision in early 2016 we couldn't move fast enough on the plan. It took us about 8 months to find "the one" and pull the trigger.

Once the house was closed on in early December the real work began, between closing down the old shop, moving everyting into storage in the garage of the new house an beginning construction on the new shop and tearing out the yard and starting over, it was a busy as hell 8 months until everything was done to my satisfaction. At the time I thought it was going to be the death of me, but fortunately our son was still living at home and he was a HUGE help putting the yard in and moving into the new shop. Looking back at that long drawn out process, it was merely a blip in time now and as we draw nearer and nearer to having this house paid off, we are actually well ahead of our plan for retirement and only a few years further out than we would have been in the last place. Funny how we can buckle down and plow forward once we make our minds up on something.

That line has always irked me. I was a salaried employee for the vast majority of my working lifetime. So, technically, I was always on a "fixed income". Yeah, if you have the opportunity for overtime, you can sometimes get more but not if you're salaried.

With Social Security, I'm still on a "fixed income", just less than before.

Thank you for picking up on my implied frustration with his comment. I completely agree, to some extent the majority of people are on some form of "fixed income". So we budget accordingly and live at least at if not below our means. What bothered me about that comment is that he played the victim because of his "fixed income". I really don't know why I agreed to take on the job for him after our initial couple of conversations. I think it was more that I hadn't worked on a late model Shelby GT500 and kind of wanted to. I let my decision be fogged by that I think.

 

[zmotorsports]

During my cross country jaunt last year when I drove home with the shop truck, I noticed the state of Wyoming had numerous exits off the interstate that went absolutely nowhere. Your comment reminded me of that, and it looks like "off the pavement" is exactly where the destination was for all those exits.

Robert, a lot of those exits that don't appear to go anywhere are actually auxiliary gated entrances to various properties around the area. Some of those ranches and estates are quite vast. You may have noted that some of them merely have an exit number and say "ranch exit", but then just have a closed off gate. Those are merely auxiliary entrances to these various properties using the interstate system to reach the "back 40".

There are however, some that do lead off to non-privately owned properties, those are the ones worth exploring. We have been fortunate in our travels to have been able to play on many of those. Traveling east out of Evanston, WY on Highway 150 there are quite a few, but there are also some gated communities where people have some very nice second homes or "cabins" as many around here refer to them. However, they are far from old wood "cabins". Many are high dollar secondary or retirement properties so those roads are not accessible to the general public as many have coded gates these days. As Highway 150 continues on, there are more non-private and forest service areas that open up to hundreds of square miles of public lands for exploring. We have snowmobiled in those areas much more than explored in the summer months, but we're trying to change that as the scenery and views are breathtaking.

We found a very similar scenario over in central Wyoming, around the towns of Worland and Ten Sleep area where accessing the Big Horn Mountains was just a dirt road away from having hundreds of miles of trails to explore. We stumbled across that area a couple of years ago and just had to go back this year to find more and I still think we only scratched the surface on the areas to explore in the Big Horns.

Sterling, i really appreciate this, a bit different that what I have long thought.



All, if you are not familiar with this take a google: I am a firm believer, and as such I treat my craftsman, and skilled tradesman as such.

Why Fire a Customer​

Customers should be encouraged to go elsewhere for one of three reasons: they're costing you too much economically, too much emotionally, or they are violating a key value of your organization. Let’s examine each reason in detail.

Joel, I would agree. I have been fortunate however, as I have only had to fire a few clients when I had my business. Those that I did hit one of the three reasons that you mentioned and insisted they take their drama and problems elsewhere to be solved.

 

[gearhead1960]

@zmotorsports I've been following along the thread about clients and finances for awhile and agree on 99% of the sentiment. Our problem, that many folks don't consider until it hits them in the face, is once you reach retirement, how do you create that income stream from the wealth you have created, for your retirement. There are many things to navigate through such as taxes, healthcare, budgeting for hobbies, and/or travel to name just a few. My college degree was in Finance (although never worked in that field) and knew how to save and invest for retirement. When I approached my retirement date, I was perplexed about how to plan and prepare post career for said income stream and dealing with the tax and healthcare issues among other things. When I was in college (at that time), the courses I took never considered retirement as part of the background needed for my degree. As a result, I had no solid ideas about how to plan for this. My older brother has a financial advisor and I consulted with his advisor to help with this planning. As the wife and I have a very strong background in finance, we had some very pointed questions about how he would plan our future. In our three interviews with the advisor, he never would give us a straight answer. The advisor eventually stated that "we don't seem to be a good match", i.e. he fired us! My conclusion is that we knew too much and weren't about to be a Lemming (as my brother freely admits). The point of my story is, you can never ask too many questions to protect yourself (financially) and secondly, sometimes being fired as the client is for the best (for both parties). More importantly, as you plan for your retirement, make sure you have a Financial Advisor (if you feel you need one) that is willing to answer your questions satisfactorily and be a willing partner to meet your goals. As you well know, he/she works for you, not the other way around. We eventually did find a financial advisor. It does cost us money, but to be honest, I've way ahead of the game than if I tried to do it on my own. Even with the expense of the advisor. He has made a difference in increasing our wealth due to his expertise on getting our investments in the right place for our age and risk aversion. Mike, I'm sure you have given a lot of this consideration, so I might already be singing to the choir. As many others read this thread, I don't think it's a bad idea to voice these thoughts and experiences, for everyone else's benefit. Thanks for letting me use your soapbox....

 

[aka Larry]

From the first interaction with him all he did was beat me up on pricing...

You definitely don't need to sell yourself short. Anyone who wants the best guy to do the work should know they don't get that level of work and budget pricing.

 

[zmotorsports]

Life got a lot less stressful when I started picking and choosing what work I do, or more so who's vehicles I will work on. I've always enjoyed working on vehicles and when people would ask me to work on their cars I took the work on in order to buy new tools and bring in a few extra dollars. I didn't run it like a business and didn't charge business rates. That drew a lot of people that ended up being a pain to deal with. Once I started running it like a real business and charging close to what other shops in town are charging and going by book time when doing estimates it got rid of all the bottom feeders. This brought in more money and also less stress. I don't do this to pay my bills so I don't have to accept all repairs or worry about turning down work. Once I started thinking like that life got a lot better. Working on vehicles got more enjoyable and the shop kept growing. This left me with people that just drop their vehicles off and say to let them know when it's done and what the final bill is. Also got rid of the people that bring you rusted out junk that want it fixed for next to nothing.

I had told everyone that I was moving and once I moved most of my tools 6 hours away I wouldn't be doing anymore work. But I still keep getting calls to do work and have been accepting most of them because it's helping pay for the move and to set up the new shop.

Scott, your experience and path sound very similar to mine. In High School I wanted to wrench and race, those were my two passions. Well, there was a third also and that was to just get off the damn farm.  Unfortunately, I learned early on that I had a champaign appetite on a beer income.

I then went to a friend's brother's house one day, who turned out to be one of my mentors, and I quickly realized what I wanted out of life, to have a well-equipped shop in my backyard that I could tackle about any job without relying on other people. This would require more money than what I felt like my career path would provide, so in doing the math knowing I made X but I needed Y to make my dreams come true, I knew that taking on side work was the only way to make that happen. In High School I worked on anything and everything I could to earn a few extra bucks and not knowing much, I charged peanuts, so volume was key.

As my skillset grew, so did the demand for more tools so it was a mixed bag, so I also started charging a bit more to be more compensable with the improved skillset. Again, I worked on anything I could get my hands on and much of it was rusted out junk that people were just trying to keep alive, but it did teach me some valuable skills in broken/rusted bolt removal as well as allowed me to really familiarize myself with the basics. Many were headscratchers because multiple people had been into these things so wires were cut and new ones run parallel from anywhere power could be sourced from along with many substandard repairs, so I really had a firsthand experience with the way NOT to fix things. Looking back, I really cherish the memories of that work because it catapulted my skillset.

When dating my wife and planning our future, she knew exactly what she was getting into as we were both ambitious and hard working so we complimented each other perfectly. She also fully understood that tool purchases were a part of my field, but she also knew how I felt about debt and she knew I would never borrow for tools nor get us into financial trouble sourcing tools, so I think that had a part in her silence during many of my tool purchases.

Shortly after getting married and having our son, we were able to build our first shop and one of the agreements I made with my wife was that I could do side work to make extra money to cover the tool and equipment purchases. Once I started working in our new shop on our own stuff, I quickly realized that having more tools and equipment would allow me to keep much more work "in-house" as well as control the quality. I remember it was 1995 when I completed our 1940 Chevy coupe street rod/race car and during several local car shows, I was getting requests to do work and was charging what I thought was a fair shop rate, but the important thing was I had a steady flow of money coming in on the side as well as my day job so we were able to plan for future projects that I wanted to build. We were also heavily involved in snowmobiling and sand duning, so I had a lot of future builds occupying space in my head. I had been collecting pieces and parts for a sandrail project from client's cars that were upgrading components, and a sand rail was to be our next project. So after saving up some money I contacted Mike Mazzone from Mazzone Sand Cars in El Cajon, CA in early spring of 1996 to build me a chassis. He built an awesome sandrail chassis that was lightweight and nimble and more importantly, a mid-engine design. Most at that time were rear engine, but I didn't want to do "wheelies", I wanted to build a fast and lightweight sand car so my only desire was a mid-engine car.

I remember saving up money so when my name came up on Mike Mazzone's list I would have the money for the deposit and then the chassis. I remember the wife and I having a deep conversation just about the time I was expecting a call from Mike Mazzone that he would be commencing my chassis and would be going over the details for my chassis. I made the comment to my wife that I had really been interested in getting a piece of equipment that would allow me to machine some parts for our builds in-house but I knew nothing about machining. I had played with a small Jet lathe at work, but that was the extent of my machining experience, but I also knew I had a thirst to learn more. I suggested that maybe instead of ordering a sand car chassis at that time, that maybe I spend the money on a Smithy mill/drill/lathe that would allow me to learn as I went and have the capabilities in our own shop. She agreed that it made more sense in terms of an investment than the sand car we were about to build so I made the call to Mazzone Sand Cars and cancelled my spot on his list and told him I would have to wait a couple of years as something came up. Turns out that was a great decision.

Now with machining capabilities in my home shop I was able to learn at an accelerated rate vs. the rare opportunities I had to use the lathe at work. I was able to make some custom parts for many of the street rods, sand toys and snowmobiles I was working on for other people on the side. Once people learned that I had machining as well as welding capabilities in my little shop, I began to get flooded with small welding and machining jobs, almost like a job shop. I really liked this transition I was going through at my shop because now I was able to make money without having an entire car, quad or sled occupying space in my already small shop. I'd weld or machine the part, hand it back to the client and take my payment. All was good. So good in fact, that in 1997 the wife and I decided to apply for a business license for our home-based shop. The ultimate goal was to make enough I would quit my full-time job and just do custom work out of our home shop.

The work was steady and the clients list continued to grow. We made decent money and were able to pay off our home early and still play while filling the shop with more tools and equipment, life was good, until it wasn't. My dad's passing in 2002 knocked the wind out of my sails and I lost interest in a lot of things. I put the race car/street rod into storage and we focused on duning and sledding, but I found myself getting more easily frustrated with clients and their drama, both at my shop and when we went to the dunes so it was becoming less fun for me, but I could see our son very much enjoyed it so I kept pushing forward. Things were going so well that in 2006 I was able to buy my dream toolbox, then a year later upgraded my MIG welder and in 2008 upgrade my TIG welder setup and the biggest upgrades came in 2014 when I bought a new lathe and milling machine for the shop. Those were good years as far as revenue, but stressful to say the least as I was tiring of the drama and BS from clients. We ended up getting completely out of all powersports in 2012 as I couldn't deal with the mentality of the new side by side clients as they really turned me off the whole powersports industry. I focused solely on job shop work, RV work, Jeep work and automotive work after that.

We continued to run our business out of our home shop up until 2016 when we decided to move away from our deteriorating neighborhood and build a new shop and start a new life in a new house and shop. During this transition, I told the wife I was done dealing with people and I opted not to try to transfer our business license to the new home and just dissolve the business. The new shop would be solely to work on our own stuff and nothing more.

After a few years of being in the new shop I was able to get caught up on our personal vehicles and projects and it was nice being able to put our stuff as a priority for the first time in our married life. Previously it always seemed like I was able to work on our stuff when it broke down or when I could fit it in between other paying jobs and it was getting old. The whole reason I dreamt of being a mechanic was so that I could drive nice stuff and keep it maintained to a high level, like those older guys I looked up to when I was young and drooled over their ****.

Now I finally feel like I am at a point in life where I have the flexibility to make those choices and work on side work only when I have time and only when I want to. Although it's a great feeling, I still don't want to become too busy where I start to lose a firm grasp on that choice. Before I agree to take on side work, I make sure people understand my rules and if they don't agree, they are free to go elsewhere, no hard feelings.

 

[signcrafter]

Previously it always seemed like I was able to work on our stuff when it broke down or when I could fit it in between other paying jobs and it was getting old. The whole reason I dreamt of being a mechanic was so that I could drive nice stuff and keep it maintained to a high level, like those older guys I looked up to when I was young and drooled over their ****.

This really hits home Mike. Never seem to have enough time to deal with my own stuff until it's a must do. Actually your whole post hits home and will try to write more when I get a few more minutes. Need to get on the road for a 6 hour drive. Always trying to get work pushed through to get money to do more work. Always needing something so doing more work to get the funds to get the new tools or whatever. I have stopped and thought a few times why am I doing this. Why not just pay someone else to fix my stuff and spend my money on things not shop related like everyone else. I look at my scan tools or other large purchases and think I could have gone on a vacation or something with that money. Then think how nice it is to have the stuff to deal with whatever I need to on my own vehicles. Then stop and think how I have the stuff but only use it when it prevents them from driving. Maybe I should have just bought a small socket set and a new vehicle and if it breaks pay to have it fixed. Just have a car payment like everyone else instead of buying a new tool. I've gone back and forth a few times but in the end I enjoy what I do and am happy I chose this path. And then have to remind myself that the stuff I have has been paid for by the work I do for others which allowed me to have the stuff I do to do what I do. But every once in a while I have to stop and reflect on if I would have gone a different path like most people do and if I would have been ahead in money and time if I hadn't bought all these tools.

Just this morning I ordered 400 dollars in tools to be able to replace a sensor in my truck. A sensor I've had for months with a check engine light on. I keep telling my wife the truck is PMSing because she has been driving it, it's the particulate matter sensor. She doesn't think that's as funny as I do for some reason. But replacing it has been put off because of time and also because everything I've read says it's easy to pull the threads out of the bung while changing it. So I've been putting it off in order to buy the LTI shockit kit that uses an air hammer to help prevent that. Will see how that works this weekend.

I've been trying to be more proactive on my own stuff but it's hard to want to work on your own stuff after working on other peoples stuff. Just want to take a break after finishing something for someone else instead of work on mine.

 

[zmotorsports]

@zmotorsports I've been following along the thread about clients and finances for awhile and agree on 99% of the sentiment. Our problem, that many folks don't consider until it hits them in the face, is once you reach retirement, how do you create that income stream from the wealth you have created, for your retirement. There are many things to navigate through such as taxes, healthcare, budgeting for hobbies, and/or travel to name just a few. My college degree was in Finance (although never worked in that field) and knew how to save and invest for retirement. When I approached my retirement date, I was perplexed about how to plan and prepare post career for said income stream and dealing with the tax and healthcare issues among other things. When I was in college (at that time), the courses I took never considered retirement as part of the background needed for my degree. As a result, I had no solid ideas about how to plan for this. My older brother has a financial advisor and I consulted with his advisor to help with this planning. As the wife and I have a very strong background in finance, we had some very pointed questions about how he would plan our future. In our three interviews with the advisor, he never would give us a straight answer. The advisor eventually stated that "we don't seem to be a good match", i.e. he fired us! My conclusion is that we knew too much and weren't about to be a Lemming (as my brother freely admits). The point of my story is, you can never ask too many questions to protect yourself (financially) and secondly, sometimes being fired as the client is for the best (for both parties). More importantly, as you plan for your retirement, make sure you have a Financial Advisor (if you feel you need one) that is willing to answer your questions satisfactorily and be a willing partner to meet your goals. As you well know, he/she works for you, not the other way around. We eventually did find a financial advisor. It does cost us money, but to be honest, I've way ahead of the game than if I tried to do it on my own. Even with the expense of the advisor. He has made a difference in increasing our wealth due to his expertise on getting our investments in the right place for our age and risk aversion. Mike, I'm sure you have given a lot of this consideration, so I might already be singing to the choir. As many others read this thread, I don't think it's a bad idea to voice these thoughts and experiences, for everyone else's benefit. Thanks for letting me use your soapbox....

Mark, yes on most of the above. I have done a **** ton of reading and learning about diversification to minimize the tax burden during retirement as well as funding insurance before Medicare eligibility. Seems like many things though, the more I learn the more questions I have and the deeper I go into researching and learning. It's a viscous cycle. Yes, we have a great financial planner whom we have been with since 2009 after we lost our *** in the 2007/2008 market drop. Granted, we didn't have much invested at that time, but even seeing a small amount cut nearly in half, it scared me enough to take more control over our investments and not leave it to chance nor for our company to manage. I was grateful we sought out a financial planner and found a good one at that point in time, because we recovered much quicker and better than I think we would have if I would had I gone it alone. At that time I was more emotionally driven, where now I have been ok shifting to a more data and methodical approach to our investment and financial strategy.

Since then, we've continued to adjust that balance between debt elimination (mortgage) and investing all while maintaining asset diversification with the mindset of not only wealth growth, but to minimize taxes and legacy planning. Legacy planning and being able to get to the point of not having to touch the principal is just one of the things that keep me up at night, there are many. Even during our meetings with our financial planner and he lays everything out although it looks good, I still worry. I even go to the extreme that when calculating growth, I don't use the normal 6-8 or even 10% rate of return that some planners use, we use a very conservative 4% for calculation purposes.

I feel confident we are on track, actually better than just being on track according to our investment planner, but I still worry, which is why I continue to take on side work and put money away over multiple avenues. During one of our more recent visits or "checkups" our advisor told the wife and I that based on the numbers that I don't need to continue to do side work as we are on a good path, but I simply can't leave it to chance. My feelings are that as long as the opportunities are there to make a little money on the side, I feel I should use the skillset that the good Lord has blessed me with to continue to work to provide the best chance of success I can in retirement. He also mentioned to the wife that he thinks I am going to struggle when it comes time to actually start drawing on those funds as that is going to be out of character for me where I have been so laser focused on putting money in. I hope I don't make it hard on the wife because I know she has things she would like us to do and see in retirement as well as the things I want to do, but I don't ever want to let my fear of withdrawals keep us from enjoying what we've work so hard for.

I also try to use my situation and my late to the party mindset to investing to convince our younger mechanics to start now and how a little over a long period of time is better than waiting until later in life when wealth building has less time and requires more money. Many can't see beyond today enough to worry about 20 or 30 years from now. I can speak from experience, that the next 20 or 30 years will be here before they know it.

I am so grateful that throughout all of my struggles and through the conversations with our son that he has taken his future and financial planning so serious. He is leaps and bounds ahead of where the wife and I were at his age and for that I am so proud of him.

Like the old adage of when is the best time to start investing and planning for the future? Today. When is the second-best time to start saving and planning for the future? Tomorrow.

To all the younger members of Garage Journal who may be following along, other than apologizing for all my side trips, I would like to encourage you to take control of your finances by just taking small steps to control spending and live below your means. Avoid debt and for that debt you may already have, pay it down and off as quickly as possible because I can attest that having that debt monkey off of your back opens up so many possibilities as well as frees the soul. Avoid the trap of trying to keep up with the Jones's mentality and just enjoy the journey through life living on less than you make. Don't worry about trying to keep up with others as no good comes from that, trust me, been there done that and it ads so much stress to one's life that it detracts from other areas. We don't need to have everything in life to be happy. I have found that just the simple things bring so much joy to life, especially without worrying about debt.

 

[zmotorsports]

You definitely don't need to sell yourself short. Anyone who wants the best guy to do the work should know they don't get that level of work and budget pricing.

Thank you Vincent. I think it has taken me a while (like most of my life) to realize that I do actually provide better service and workmanship than the average shop. I think this mindset has come because of my lack of formal education and always feeling like I can do better no matter what I am working on. And while I feel these thoughts have kept me grounded and from developing an overinflated ego or becoming arrogant, I also feel maybe they've kept me from feeling more valued as a mechanic as many times I downplay my abilities. I am working on changing that with the help of so many fellow forum members and their flattering comments. Personally, I feel there is a fine line however between confidence and arrogance and that line is a place I have feared to go and often steer clear of.

 

[gearhead1960]

@zmotorsports One thing my parents taught me that I always took to heart was, "pay yourself 1st". Also, on my own, whatever employer I was working for, I participated in every savings plan/vehicle they had to offer. Sometimes it was at the minimum level, but I was at least putting something away. In later years, I able to increase the amounts. Compounding is a powerful thing. Too many of the younger crowd do not understand that concept!