J H Williams vintage hand tools

[leg17]

Never saw that before.
Anything inside??

 

[MR.X]

Never saw that before.
Anything inside??

Not in that one.

 

[59Sled]

This big guy was given to me. 1 11/16 open end. Little wire wheel clean up. I painted the lettering to give it some pop. Then some wax to protect it.




Found just the metal box

 

[Patrickm82]

That puppy’s a tank!!

 

[HOF]

Here is my NX-50 1" Drive Ratchet and **-150 plug.

 

[HOF]

Other side.

 

[genog]

I got this ratchet from a friend of mine recently
and I Think I saw an empty Williams box around here......maybe not period correct, but I'll need to locate it first

 

[nadogail]

When I was buying used tools, I looked for the Williams and Armstrong branded ones.

 

[INSP380]

A good friend was out picking today and spotted this…Unfortunately it was not for sale…

Steve

 

[genog]

Found a small Williams 4 ounce hammer
Another one.....


If I put all of my little hammers together, I can make a big useful hammer out of them

 

[Beerhippie]

Found a small Williams 4 ounce hammer
Another one.....


If I put all of my little hammers together, I can make a big useful hammer out of them

I likes my leetle hammer friends.

 

[Steven 33]

Vulcan carb tool I believe. Looks identical to the blue point one. Actually thought it was a blue point until I decided to finally give it a clean. Never seen one by them before. And then a koto breaker bar. Not sure of the relationship that I saw. Someone post a super ratchet by them a while back

 

[3baygarage]

Vulcan carb tool I believe. Looks identical to the blue point one. Actually thought it was a blue point until I decided to finally give it a clean. Never seen one by them before. And then a koto breaker bar. Not sure of the relationship that I saw. Someone post a super ratchet by them a while back

Neat finds. I do believe the Koto is made and Japan and they copied the Williams Superratchet right down to the name. The Japanese and Germans loved to copy the look of US ratchets. The breaker bar doesn’t seem to have have a Williams look.

 

[3baygarage]

Here is a neat one I haven’t seen before. It has the handle of an old Williams breaker bar! My new favorite single end wrench.

No size stamp, think it’s 7/8”.


Mystery set screw hole.

 

[Steven 33]

Neat finds. I do believe the Koto is made and Japan and they copied the Williams Superratchet right down to the name. The Japanese and Germans loved to copy the look of US ratchets. The breaker bar doesn’t seem to have have a Williams look.

Depends on which style. I'll have to check if I still have but I know I had one just like it. But also have had some that look completely different. One of the ones I had was identical the Milwaukee tool & forge. Always interesting to see the different styles

 

[Beerhippie]

Here is a neat one I haven’t seen before. It has the handle of an old Williams breaker bar! My new favorite single end wrench.

No size stamp, think it’s 7/8”.


Mystery set screw hole.

Well, that's special!

 

[Provincial]

Here is a neat one I haven’t seen before. It has the handle of an old Williams breaker bar! My new favorite single end wrench.

No size stamp, think it’s 7/8”.


Mystery set screw hole.

I suspect that it was an adjustment handle on a piece of equipment. The set screw retained it on a hex. This allowed the handle to stay attached, but be relocated to keep it in the desired position, even if there was wear in the parts.

 

[3baygarage]

I suspect that it was an adjustment handle on a piece of equipment. The set screw retained it on a hex. This allowed the handle to stay attached, but be relocated to keep it in the desired position, even if there was wear in the parts.

That would make the most sense.

 

[Tom "Python" Aycock]

I got this ratchet from a friend of mine recently
and I Think I saw an empty Williams box around here......maybe not period correct, but I'll need to locate it first

My S series 1/2 drive set with the same ratchet

 

[four.cycle]

Vulcan carb tool I believe. Looks identical to the blue point one.

.... probably because almost all of those were manufactured by Aircraft Specialties in Lapeer, Michigan - they made them for everybody.

 

[HOF]

Does anyone know when these <W> marked ratchets were produced? They are usually described as "early." I always thought they were a budget version made by Williams. I haven't been able to find a picture of them in any of my Williams catalogs.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Does anyone know when these <W> marked ratchets were produced?

Not definitively. Most reasonable theory is after WWII but before 1948 based on other characteristics (the label under the lid of the box, socket construction) of sets owned by @Oldtuleguy in which the ratchet looks original to the set.

I always thought they were a budget version made by Williams.

Budget line, value line, etc, is the leading theory here among a core group of collectors on this thread here at GJ. That they don't get the full branding treatment, only the < W > logo, seems to bear that out. Also lending credence to this theory is that they are nearly identical to the Volume line, which was Williams' known budget/value line.

You didn't ask, but the "S" most likely signifies "Standard" - Williams' name for their 1/2-drive line, and "B" most likely "Bantam" - Williams' name for the 3/8-drive line. These abbreviations also seem to fit the paucity of markings typical of an economy production.

I haven't been able to find a picture of them in any of my Williams catalogs.

Nobody has as far as I am aware.

In addition to Otg tagged above, also tagging @misterbill and @3baygarage who may want to add or clarify.

 

[HOF]

Private Lugnutz
Thanks for your very informative response!
Here are the sockets that came with my Bantam ratchet. Any idea on how many sockets would have come in the 3/8" drive set? I saw 10 sockets in the 1/2" drive set posted by @Oldtuleguy.

Th

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice socketry! That is the number (7), range (3/8"-3/4"), and configuration (12-pointers) they put in their Bantam sets in the late 40's. You can double-check that in the late 40's catalogs on IA/ITCL, but I am 99.9% sure of it. I have a B-6 set. The sizes of the sets came down to the diversity of handles and extras (deeps, swivels, etc) they put around the basic set.

 

[four.cycle]

I haven't been able to find a picture of them in any of my Williams catalogs.

There is an acute shortage of "old catalog" for Williams between the mid-1930s and the early 1960s. from the mid-1960s going forward.

And 7 is the magic number for most American-made 3/8" drive SAE socket sets made post WWII: 3/8, 7/16, 1/12, /9/16, 5/8, 11/16, and 3/4

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here's a 30s set

 

[Private Lugnutz]

There is an acute shortage of "old catalog" for Williams between the mid-1930s and the early 1960s.

No there's not. You've said this before, and I've corrected you before. In general, Williams is one of the most comprehensively represented mfgrs on IA/ITCL, and that period in particular is jam packed with catalogs. There are twenty-one (21) catalogs between 1937 and 1964, and several other related documents (Price Lists, Supplements, Tool Facts, etc). In particular, a 1947, a 1948, and a 1949 catalog, which is when his tools were most likely made.

 

[four.cycle]

I got my years off, sorry. There's a hole - maybe it's later.
Not the first time I got my wires crossed.
(I recall there being no info because somebody was asking about patterns on the exterior of the box. Couldn't find anything.)

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a 1/4” drive Williams spinner. I’m not sure why it’s special.
-Don

 

[Mark Stansbury]

Now available, a scan of J. H. Williams Twentieth Edition Catalog (Dec. 1926), with separate Nov. 1, 1927 supplement.

 

[3baygarage]

Here is a 1/4” drive Williams spinner. I’m not sure why it’s special.
-Don

I think they were dubbed that before becoming a catalog item. Just my theory. Seen a decent number of them marked that way but I can't remember if all had a female end. That could be the reason.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ Makes sense. "SPECIAL" as in "new and additional to our regular NM-110 1/4-inch drive steel rotating handle spinner/extension". Would've been just before 1947, right?

Does it have the NM-106 part number stamped on it?

 

[d42jeep]

No part number, just the Williams W and SPECIAL.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ I think that lends credence to the 1946-ish introduction explanation. Once they were a regular item, they were stamped with the P/N, and no "SPECIAL" status.

 

[d42jeep]

They eliminated the N eventually and the part number became M-106. The original M-106 was 9/32” drive, just to add to the confusion.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

They eliminated the N eventually and the part number became M-106

Yeah, but that was later. I talked about it upthread here...

Williams actually dropped the "N" (for New) from their "NM-" (for New Midget) 1/4-inch drive model number scheme sometime before 1963 (first newer catalog I found it in...), ostensibly because enough time had passed when "M-" could be used for Midget again without any concern about confusion with the earlier "M-" scheme for original 9/32-inch drive Midget tools.

 

[four.cycle]

wow! so ALL "NM" prefix part numbers were produced prior to 1963?

very interesting! thanks!

 

[misterbill]

I picked this beauty up yesterday while out tool scavenging. It has the oval logo and markings consistent with the period of time that Williams had plants in both Brooklyn and Buffalo. Aside from the W-in-a-diamond the only other marking is "131". The milled openings appear (without getting a micrometer) to be 5/8" x 3/4". I can't find anything similar in the catalogs from that period. Anyone know the significance of the "131"?




Bill

 

[Oregon Dave]

I picked this beauty up yesterday while out tool scavenging. It has the oval logo and markings consistent with the period of time that Williams had plants in both Brooklyn and Buffalo. Aside from the W-in-a-diamond the only other marking is "131". The milled openings appear (without getting a micrometer) to be 5/8" x 3/4". I can't find anything similar in the catalogs from that period. Anyone know the significance of the "131"?




Bill

A die/mold number comes to mind.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

A die/mold number comes to mind.

If it was a Vlchek or a couple other mfgrs, that would be a good possibility. Williams is not known for using them, though, especially not in that era.

I can't find anything similar in the catalogs from that period.

A very odd one, indeed, Billiam. Not just the "131" not being a Williams model number, but no size markings on the flip side. They would typically be expressing U.S.S. sizes if they were present. A woebegotten "731" is not out of the question, but not likely, either.

I will call your attention to the forged-in number on the shank under the major jaw face that looks smooshed, worn or possibly semi-removed. Might be a "30"? This is actually characteristic of Williams in this era. They would forge a wrench with a die suitable for a few different milled service opening combinations, mill the jaws, stamp the model number, or sometimes even forge it in with the flip side die, and then file or grind the other one off. A "30" wrench would have 11/16" x 7/8" milled openings. Not saying that's what it is. But that was their practice at this time and wrenches with one, two, or even three different numbers, with one of them partially or fully removed is not uncommon. I have examples with two model numbers, one of them obviously left inadvertently.

Last comment. Williams was very active in contract production in this time period, it has that look, and I have a number of examples, but they typically have the customer name on the flip side. Sometimes it has the customer number. Could that be the "131"?

Long-winded "IDK", as the kids like to text.