1/2 ratchets, flex head, snap on/gearwrench etc?

[sk farmer]

Appreciate your response, but I think you are thinking about this wrong. Tools are not investments or savings accounts, they are depreciating assets, just like cars. Inflation plays a role, but not like you are thinking.

With depreciating assets, all that matters is the cost of ownership. I bought a car 10yrs ago for $25,000 that’s now worth $0. That car cost me $2500/yr to own, which actually isn’t that bad.

If I buy a set of screwdrivers for $75, use them for 30yrs, then because of inflation, the residual value of those screwdrivers is more than I paid, they cost me 0 to use and I may have made money if I sell for them for $100.

How can a $6000 toolbox be a smart buy? If you can use it for 20yrs then sell it for $6000, because new boxes like it are $10,000 in 20yrs.

To have use of a high end depreciating product (like my daily driver Porsche) that’s worth nearly what I paid for it after driving it for 12 yrs and 100k miles is a great financial move. The new Acura sedan I could have bought instead, would have been the more expensive purchase. The tools, the Porsche, were cost avoidances which is a little like making money (kinda sorta). My tools should have cost me $X/ yr to use and instead cost me $0.

Given the choice between a new HF US General tool box for $600 and a used Snap on toolbox for $1000, the snap on box will probably b cheaper to own.

If you are picking stocks or savings accounts, you pick the highest return that fits your risk tolerance. For depreciating assets, you want things that cost you the least to own. Expensive things could cost less to own than cheap things.

This was my point but I don't explain things as well as you did. Thank you. I also added two important facts to your quote that are important.

Agree, to get the best resale price, don’t mark your tools and keep the original packaging if at all possible.

i won't argue with either of you. you may very well be correct. that said i don't know that the other guys are completely wrong either. the truth likely lies somewhere between. 20 or 30 yrs from now if snap-on is in the position it currently is you may likely be spot on. if not, you get the idea.

think of all of the brand names that were top notch and well respected 20 or 30 yrs ago. many of them don't exist and have been replaced with names that did not even exist then.

i am not saying snap -on won't exist but one never knows.

 

[richfinn]

The 120XP is a 60 tooth anvil gear. The gear and pawl teeth are not actually fine, but there are 2x stacked pawls so each one is thinner. The pawls alternate with a 50% overlap making it "feel" like 120 teeth, but in reality it is 2x60 tooth mechanisms alternating.

If the mechanism fails by sheering at the anvil like most quality ratchets, in theory it should be just as strong despite the "delicate" subjective feel. The teeth are coarser than a 90 tooth mechanism, so may actually be more resilient to wear, grit, swarf, etc.




This is why I mentioned inflation, it directly applies to your chosen example, and is an example of why a basic understanding of inflation is important:

If you paid $100 30 years ago and sold them for $100 today, you lost well over 50% adjusted for inflation (as shown by you mentioning the set is $300 now, which suggest 2/3 value lost if sold today for $100, despite selling for the "same" price).

ie, the "more than i originally paid for them" comment is moot as it's not true when you consider inflation; $1 spent in 1995 is not the same value as $1 gained in 2025. It might feel good to sell something for the same price you bought it for 30yrs ago, but it's a fallacy.




This is one example where buying a quality item is an investment: some things aren't made like they used to be, and are excellent second hand investments as they're already depreciated and will retain value.

Very nice Bridgeport you have there, I'd say you put >$2000 worth of skilled labour restoring it to make it look that nice, but we don't count our time in our hobbies

The thing you might be missing about GJ is that not everyone here is overly concerned about money, we mostly like nice tools.

No sane person is crawling around under cars just to save money, we do this for fun!!!, the whole "saving money" thing is mostly just BS we tell our wives to justify the hobby, I still wrench as a daytime job and spend way too much on tools and equipment because I love it, I could definitely have been more sensible financially and saved more for my retirement, but when I'm older I might not be as physically capable, Being sat on a couch surrounded by wealth I could have spent in my prime isn't really my cup of tea.

Enjoy it while you can and die happy is my motto

 

[myusername]

No sane person is crawling around under cars just to save money, we do this for fun!!!, the whole "saving money" thing is mostly just BS we tell our wives to justify the hobby, I still wrench as a daytime job and spend way too much on tools and equipment because I love it, I could definitely have been more sensible financially and saved more for my retirement, but when I'm older I might not be as physically capable, Being sat on a couch surrounded by wealth I could have spent in my prime isn't really my cup of tea.

Saving money is the best way to sneak more purchases past your wives

Just for grins, I decided to disassemble it, clean it really well, re-lube and re-assembled it. The ratchet probably belonged to a pro who upgraded to a new tool. It was very worn. Reassembled, the ratchet had amazing feel. Light back drag, light clicking sound.

1) I think dual80 ratchets at least have a break in period. I think they work better with use.
2) I feel as tho used ratchets represent amazing deals, especially if rebuild kits exist. I really am not sure why any of us should be paying retail for new ratchets when we can find what we want second hand. Especially if, as I suggested, we might prefer the feel of worn ratchets.

Worn ratchets feel the smoothest right before they start skipping

Having said that, I've been known to put extensions in a drill to wear in new ratchets before cleaning and applying a lighter lubricant for lower back drag

 

[micromind]

I've been known to put extensions in a drill to wear in new ratchets before cleaning and applying a lighter lubricant for lower back drag

If, due to the speed, it suddenly shifts to the other direction........

 

[Steve_P]

Apparently the new 120XP are an improvement, but I haven't seen great deals on them vs the 90T buying in/from Australia. What don't you like about the 120XP?

I have a ridiculously large selection of GW 90T ratchets as a local hardware store put the standard chrome handle versions on clearance when they stopped carrying GW (purchased 2x sets of 3 for <USD50/set), and then I picked up more when on sale at large discounts (eg 3pce comfort grip locking flex head set for ~USD115, and then chrome handle locking flex set for ~USD70 which was a deal I couldn't walk past)... then I filled in the gaps with the rest of the range as they went on sale over the last few years.

For the price of a single SnapOff comfort grip locking flex I bought more GW 90T ratchets than I will ever need. They're not perfect, a few have QC flaws that shouldn't have left the factory, but you can't argue against the value for money.

If you watch the PF tests, maybe in the link above, IIRC the GW 120T doesn't offer a swing arc improvement over the 90T, or IIRC any notable performance improvement. In addition, the 120T head is thicker vs 90T. Both fail the anvil at extremely high torque values. 120T does offer at least one long length that 90T doesn't - I think it was on 3/8 drive. The 120T is certainly a good ratchet, reasonably priced, but IIRC there aren't really any performance benefits vs the 90T, so IMO it's just marketing. I have a bunch of the GW 90T and the only one that had an "issue" was the long 1/2" flex locking with a slightly loose head out of the box. I added a couple of shoulder screw shim washers and it's tight- no need for locking. This was a $90-$100 ratchet when I bought it vs ~$300 for Snap On; and I almost never use it, because a cordless impact typically fits.

I can afford to buy SO, but it doesn't financially make sense for me as a DIYer who's only broken a handful of tools in his life. The only SO ratchets I have are a few longer length ratchets that GW doesn't make, and I bought them new off Ebay for 30-40% off list . I have 5+ Matco 88T ratchets, again in longer lengths, and have bought them new off of Ebay at 50-60% off list- it's a lot easier to get a great deal on Matco than SO ratchets IME.

~15 years ago, I reached the point in life where I could afford to redo my perfectly fine tool set with nicer stuff. I compared prices on things like socket sets, etc, same size range, and SO was 2.5-3X what Proto, SK USA, Williams USA.... were at that time. I would have loved to have all my main line tools from SO but figured I'd buy other high-quality brands and retire a few years early with the difference in my savings.

Obviously, the SO fans that are home users are never going to change their minds, and that's fine, so debating is pointless. For professional use, it does make sense to have some stuff, the stuff you break and wear out often, from a tool truck.

 

[AEAdam]

If you watch the PF tests, maybe in the link above, IIRC the GW 120T doesn't offer a swing arc improvement over the 90T, or IIRC any notable performance improvement. In addition, the 120T head is thicker vs 90T. Both fail the anvil at extremely high torque values. 120T does offer at least one long length that 90T doesn't - I think it was on 3/8 drive. The 120T is certainly a good ratchet, reasonably priced, but IIRC there aren't really any performance benefits vs the 90T, so IMO it's just marketing. I have a bunch of the GW 90T and the only one that had an "issue" was the long 1/2" flex locking with a slightly loose head out of the box. I added a couple of shoulder screw shim washers and it's tight- no need for locking. This was a $90-$100 ratchet when I bought it vs ~$300 for Snap On; and I almost never use it, because a cordless impact typically fits.

I can afford to buy SO, but it doesn't financially make sense for me as a DIYer who's only broken a handful of tools in his life. The only SO ratchets I have are a few longer length ratchets that GW doesn't make, and I bought them new off Ebay for 30-40% off list . I have 5+ Matco 88T ratchets, again in longer lengths, and have bought them new off of Ebay at 50-60% off list- it's a lot easier to get a great deal on Matco than SO ratchets IME.

~15 years ago, I reached the point in life where I could afford to redo my perfectly fine tool set with nicer stuff. I compared prices on things like socket sets, etc, same size range, and SO was 2.5-3X what Proto, SK USA, Williams USA.... were at that time. I would have loved to have all my main line tools from SO but figured I'd buy other high-quality brands and retire a few years early with the difference in my savings.

Obviously, the SO fans that are home users are never going to change their minds, and that's fine, so debating is pointless. For professional use, it does make sense to have some stuff, the stuff you break and wear out often, from a tool truck.

I agree with the first part. I think there's a practical upper limit to the number of teeth in a ratchet. I don't think people will be posting all their dual80 stuff on ebay when the Quad200 comes out. I feel like we are where we are for a while.

Dual80 was made possible by manufacturing technology. Ironically, that exact same manufacturing technology- specifically really tight tolerance cnc machines, abundance of carbide, and all affordable outside of aerospace, is what is fueling the enhanced quality of foreign competitors. And while some of those technologies are civil based, a awful lot of it was "dual use" technologies designed for aerospace. Materials tech is the other half.

Point is, we saw a big bright line between 36 tooth single pawl ratchets and stacked or dual pawl 80+ tooth ratchets. I don't think we'll see that sort of jump again. The mechanisms are already stronger than the square drive. So for anybody on the fence wondering if they shoudl wait until the next breakthrough product, I'd advise buying if you have the need now.

 

[KnurledNut]

I really am not sure why any of us should be paying retail for new ratchets when we can find what we want second hand. Especially if, as I suggested, we might prefer the feel of worn ratchets.

And yet second hand ratchets wouldn’t exist if someone didn’t buy them new.

 

[1Bad55Chevy]

It has nothing to do with nicely made. I would say almost all of my ratchets are nicely made. There is something about the way it works that feels better than my others.

I'm not sure how to pinpoint it - but I'm going to describe it this way: I like my Lexus cars. I've owned other luxury brands which actually might look better on the surface - but over time the Lexus is somehow more stable or predictable. The engineering reason is this: they have slightly tighter tolerances on everything - every dimension of every part has slightly better tolerances - every material specification is slightly tighter. Not 10% better - maybe 1 or 2%. When you add up all the 2% differences across the thousands of parts, then you get a more predictable and more durable product overall. You cannot feel the difference side by side, but you notice it over time. It results in a car that feels the same at 100,000 miles as it does new. It results in a car that routinely outlasts other cars.

That's the way the Snap-on ratchet feels to me - just very slightly better in every way.

Absolutely correct!
Toyota and Honda are so reliable the service centers are weeks behind on warranty work just like every other brand. Main difference is Toyota propaganda has everyone fooled with "they run forever" but look into all the issues they are having with engines, transmissions, and electrical systems.

Tools are like anything else, brands are just brands and every brand has major successes and major flops. At the end of the day nobody cares about the car you drive, what brand tool box you use, or what brand ratchet you pull on, just buy whatever you can afford and makes you happy. Tools are meant to get jobs done so grade your tools on how many jobs you have completed and not the name stamped on the side!

 

[myusername]

If you watch the PF tests, maybe in the link above, IIRC the GW 120T doesn't offer a swing arc improvement over the 90T, or IIRC any notable performance improvement. In addition, the 120T head is thicker vs 90T. Both fail the anvil at extremely high torque values. 120T does offer at least one long length that 90T doesn't - I think it was on 3/8 drive.

I think PF oversells the 90T a bit, but they are a decent mid-tier ratchet option with a good range and are regularly on sale.

Even if there's no measurable swing arc difference in practise for a lot of >72 tooth ratchets, the 120XP mechanism sure does feel nice (even if only turning the anvil on the shelf stock window shopping to satisfy the urges of an undiagnosed tool acquisition disorder).

The 120T is certainly a good ratchet, reasonably priced, but IIRC there aren't really any performance benefits vs the 90T, so IMO it's just marketing. I have a bunch of the GW 90T and the only one that had an "issue" was the long 1/2" flex locking with a slightly loose head out of the box. I added a couple of shoulder screw shim washers and it's tight- no need for locking. This was a $90-$100 ratchet when I bought it vs ~$300 for Snap On; and I almost never use it, because a cordless impact typically fits.

I will admit I paid a small premium for 90T instead of 84T a few times despite minimal (if any) practical benefit, but there was an assumption that reasonably priced repair kits would be available for the current ratchets, which I later found to be somewhat incorrect in Australia (ie no-one seems to stock them, and the Amazon price exceeds the price I paid for the ratchets, so I bought clearance 90T ratchets as spares). I also had to warranty a brand new ratchet spanner resulting in a months-long debacle only to receive a mismatched replacement.

I agree with the first part. I think there's a practical upper limit to the number of teeth in a ratchet. I don't think people will be posting all their dual80 stuff on ebay when the Quad200 comes out. I feel like we are where we are for a while.

IME anything over 72 tooth, the tolerances and back drag matter more than the theoretical swing arc, and TBH I think prominently displaying the theoretical arc swing is borderline false advertising.

Point is, we saw a big bright line between 36 tooth single pawl ratchets and stacked or dual pawl 80+ tooth ratchets. I don't think we'll see that sort of jump again. The mechanisms are already stronger than the square drive. So for anybody on the fence wondering if they shoudl wait until the next breakthrough product, I'd advise buying if you have the need now.

I was using ~60 tooth ratchets for years which felt amazing compared to what I had previously. For decades professionals used "low tooth count" ratchets with high back drag, but at the same time engine bays etc are MUCH more crowded than they were back then.

I agree: advice is to watch the PF comparisons and buy whatever >72 tooth ratchet you like that fits your budget!

The public response to Snap On's 100 tooth release is a good example to show that ratchet technology advancement has either peaked or at best reaching the state of diminishing returns.

We all know the real decision factor is whether the reverse switch is %*^& backwards.
(I'm in "move switch clockwise to tighten" camp)

 

[myusername]

And yet second hand ratchets wouldn’t exist if someone didn’t buy them new.

+ far too many people actively support tool theft by purchasing second hand tools.

IME far more hand tools are stolen than sold (legitimately), most people hold onto them even after upgrading.

 

[Rinspeed]

+ far too many people actively support tool theft by purchasing second hand tools.

IME far more hand tools are stolen than sold, most people hold onto them even after upgrading.

That is one goofy post to say the least.

 

[liliysdad]

That is one goofy post to say the least.

You’re right…goofy is the least I would call it.

 

[myusername]

You’re right…goofy is the least I would call it.

I sincerely hope you never have your stuff stolen like I had mine

Lots of online influencers bragging about their latest market and pawn shop purchases...

 

[CoThG]

So I'm in the market for a 1/2 drive flex head ratchet.. med length. I've never bought snap on always had cheaper mastercaft from Canadian tire (canada here) Then added a 3/8 tekton socket set and an additional 3/8 tekton flex head long handle that I love. And recently a gear wrench 1/4 set that so far i'm happy with.
I'm not a mechanic and never really had interest in snap on as they are way out of my budget especially for my use.
But I have always wanted a snap on ratchet. I was thinking the SHRX80BG locking flex head comfort grip would be awesome.. But realistically if gear wrench is 90% good at 1/4 the cost im just throwing money away.

Rambling on way too much, but any non pros who would recommend a snap on ratchet?

I'm a non pro and I recommend Snap-On ratchets.

 

[CGarage]

I think you are foolish if you do not look at the new G2 ratchets by Icon.

I just got to handle a few at HF and they are very, very nice.

I am willing to wager that they are made by the same Taiwan factory that Facom uses for their Expert line (distributed by MAC in the U.S.).

I was truly impressed.

 

[thingfixer]

So I'm in the market for a 1/2 drive flex head ratchet.. med length. I've never bought snap on always had cheaper mastercaft from Canadian tire (canada here) Then added a 3/8 tekton socket set and an additional 3/8 tekton flex head long handle that I love. And recently a gear wrench 1/4 set that so far i'm happy with.
I'm not a mechanic and never really had interest in snap on as they are way out of my budget especially for my use.
But I have always wanted a snap on ratchet. I was thinking the SHRX80BG locking flex head comfort grip would be awesome.. But realistically if gear wrench is 90% good at 1/4 the cost im just throwing money away.

Rambling on way too much, but any non pros who would recommend a snap on ratchet?

Mastercraft ratchets, sockets and wrenches were made by Gearwrench for a number of years, so chances are you already have a good ratchet that comes with a lifetime warranty and (at most Canadian Tire stores anyway ) hassle-free replacement.

As a pro I honestly wouldn't recommend buying a new Snap-On ratchet purely for its utility; there is no magic alloy, at the end of the day it's made of chrome vanadium, and any ratchet will break when misused (i.e. guys using them as hammers and putting cheater bars on the handle...) and through wear and tear, including tool truck brands. Any car or truck shop will have broken Snap-On and Mac tools in a corner or a drawer, I guarantee it. What you pay for when you buy a more expensive ratchet, aside from the name and the tool truck guy's cut, is the better balance in your hand, finer polishing, more comfortable grip.

As an enthusiast and appreciator of nice tools, though, I'd say that if you really want one because you just really like the Snap-On ratchet, go for it. It's kind of iconic and I'd like one myself, but a less-expensive one will get the job done especially if you're an amateur, honestly. Most pros I've worked with mainly use hand tools from Mastercraft and other budget brands like Dynamic and Jet these days, while spending more for quality air and power tools. FWIW I've been using the same Mastercraft Maximum 1/2" ratchet daily (1/2" and 3/4"-drive tools get a lot more use than the smaller sizes in my line of work) at my job for years.

 

[pbon]

I'm a non pro and I recommend Snap-On ratchets.

Yes, we can tell that is the drawer of a collector rather than a pro. I prefer the recommendations of the pro, most of whom like Snap-on and other expensive tool truck brands, but many of them also say they do pro work no problem with much less expensive ratchets.