Show Your Vintage Knife

[Beerhippie]

I hardly ever post BEFORE pics, but this wartime "Kingston" U.S.M.C. camper just begged for it. It was literally stuck to the bottom of a toolbox by the same gunk that's all over it collecting debris. I could not even open the blades until I got it home, which are unfortunately also afflicted with some rust.

Nevertheless, I was elated with the find and even more so when it was clear that the seller didn't really know what it was. It's a collectors' advantage that these look like the ubiquitous dime a dozen MIL-K's of our youth and later.

Despite its condition, I am hopeful it will clean up. I will post AFTER's.

Was there an empty tube of Permatex Form-A-Gasket in the tool box?

It's in better shape than the one I found!





I gave mine to a friend, a Vietnam-vet Marine, who collects Marine Corps militaria. He loves it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Was there an empty tube of Permatex Form-A-Gasket in the tool box?

Likely! It was a mess.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It was my pleasure to ogle and handle a very rare specimen today! This is a model 1849 U.S. Army mounted "rifleman's knife" made by Ames with inspectors' initials on the ricasso. I posted an illustration of one excerpted from Russell upthread here when I was researching big Bowie/small swords that might fit that rawhide scabbard I found.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here's that Kingston I found yesterday. I honestly don't think it was every used. The blade has never been re-sharpened. Except for the box rot stains, it's VG, close to Excellent.

 

[Beerhippie]

Here's that Kingston I found yesterday. I honestly don't think it was every used. The blade has never been re-sharpened. Except for the box rot stains, it's VG, close to Excellent.

Mine did not appear to have been sharpened, either--just stored in a bucket of seawater.

The brass liners are a nice touch, especially during wartime restriction on metals.

 

[minke]

It was my pleasure to ogle and handle a very rare specimen today! This is a model 1849 U.S. Army mounted "rifleman's knife" made by Ames with inspectors' initials on the ...ricasso.... I posted an illustration of one excerpted from Russell upthread here when I was researching big Bowie/small swords that might fit that rawhide scabbard I found.

Thanks for the vocabulary lesson!

 

[Beerhippie]

Thanks for the vocabulary lesson!

Just to confuse things, while the stamping is on the ricasso, it's referred to as a tang stamp, even 'though the tang is usually buried in the grip.

 

[59Sled]

This one is unmarked. Only has made in Pakistan on the blade.


This one is an Old Timer. Which I think was my dads knife.


This one is an Uncle Henry


And I have one Chuck Stapel knife. Bummed I don’t have more of his. He and his wife were my mom’s best friends from junior high until their passings. He made one for me and one for my brother.

 

[Old Radar]

In preparation for our garage sale this weekend, I braved the heat of the attic and hauled down all manor of garage sale items--including an old wooden ammo box I brought home from my time as a UN Military Observer in Iraq and Kuwait. Among other long-forgotten relics from Desert Storm, I found three very toasted AK-47 bayonets scavenged from the remains of a burned out truck along the "Highway of Death". A few minutes of research indicated they are of Chinese manufacture--and since Chineseium is less than desirable to most of the denizens of this forum, I happily consigned them as garage sale fodder. The same customer bought all three, plus the remains of one sheath for the--in my view--princely sum of $50.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Wow... good sale.

 

[four.cycle]

... a fool and his money...

 

[Provincial]

I first noticed that my father had this knife at least 40 years ago. I'm not sure where he got it, or that he ever used anything except the blade.

 

[cody1325]

Two Imperial Frontier advertising knvies for Westmoreland Coal.

These two are Double Eagles. The 4135 is assembled using the Swinden method, while if I'm not mistaken--the lockback was a Camillus-made knife.

These were bought off a guy in Wise County on eBay a few years back. They're definitely shelf queens, but they had some oxidation due to poor storage before me.

That being said, I carry the 4135 on special occasions.




And while we're on that subject--a safety award knife my Granddad received--and also a Frontier by Imperial.

To me, the service pin has an onyx in it--which would denote 7 years of service. Thus, we're talking early '80s as my Granddad started in the mid '70s after a disastrous stint working in NC after the dye plant he was working for relocated from VA.

The knife shows up in late '70s advertising catalogs from Schrade and has a 1975 date on the box.

 

[30-30remchester]

Often mistaken for letter openers, these little daggers have full hilts to prevent hand slippage during trusting and both edges are sharpened. These were known as "ladies of the evening " daggers, to put it in a family friendly context.

 

[Unk]

Here's one of my favorites. A Shapleigh Diamond Edge, with rosewood scales and a mother of pearl shield. Still has the etch, and snaps like a gator.

 

[Unk]

Here's some Schrade 863. I think they called these a "Carpenter's whittler". I think Schrade stopped producing the model 863 in 1980, so these would all be over 45 years old. The one on top was modified by Herman Williams with stag scales and some polishing back in 2008. Herman was a long-time collaborator, collector, customizer, and employee of Schrade knives, and was well known in the pocket knife collector community.

Herman's obituary:

https://www.knifemagazine.com/herman-williams-3-21-37-3-13-21/

 

[Beerhippie]

A new addition for me:





Schrade W914 Camper. With the Delrin scales and the tang stamping of Schrade Walden vs. Schrade Cutlery Co. Walden, this would be no earlier than 1957/8. Probably not later than 1970. With the blade finish (possibly SS), I'd put this towards the latest date.

Always difficult to be sure of dates on these things.... but for $5 at a yard sale, it had to come home with me.

 

[Unk]

Nice looking camp knife, Beerhippie. From what I have been able to find, Schrade dropped the "Walden" off their tang stamp around 1973. Most collectors will grab one marked "Walden" before they will grab one without it, all other things being equal. You did really well for $5.

Here's a 804 Walden whittler with peach-seed bone scales.

 

[Notgrownup]

My dad was in the Canadian Army 22 regiment, Royal Dragoons and this was his knife. In all honesty, I am not sure if this is Army issued but I know he always had it with him. Trying to attach th picture but I’m having a hard time

 

[Unk]

Cool old knife, NotGrownup. I don't know about the Canadian military's version. In the U.S. military, the demo knife (MIL-K-818) was developed at the end of WWII. Kingston and a few other manufacturers made them over the years on government contract. Then Camillus made them for decades, up until they closed their doors in 2007. They stamp the date on the tang, so you can tell what year each knife was made. Years ago I wanted one for my birth year, so I bought a 1961 version. Then I decided to get one for my kids, so I got a 1991 and 1998 version for them. They all ran about $20-$25 a piece - not too expensive. Then I started looking for a 1962 version for my wife - and lo and behold, they were all priced around $200 to $300. Turns out that the U.S. military didn't need very many knives in 1962, so they only ordered a small number of them. - so the 1962 models are scarce. Needless to say, my wife doesn't have one (she has somehow managed to carry on without one. ) Some collectors collect try to collect one from every year, but I think I will be content with the one I have. Very cool that you have your fathers knife.

 

[Beerhippie]

Mine was for the USMC. I showed to an Army friend. He took one look at it, saw that the can opener was embossed CAN OPENER and said, yeah, obviously Marine Corp.

 

[Notgrownup]

One thing for sure, it’s very well made. Glad I looked it up

 

[Unk]

Mine was for the USMC. I showed to an Army friend. He took one look at it, saw that the can opener was embossed CAN OPENER and said, yeah, obviously Marine Corp.

Hi BH, what year and who made yours? If it's a Kingston, I think they put the name on the bail. If so, that's a very early one.

 

[Beerhippie]

Hi BH, what year and who made yours? If it's a Kingston, I think they put the name on the bail. If so, that's a very early one.

It is a Kingston. The name has entirely rusted away from the bail. It looks like the original owner/issuee either fought his way to the end of the Bataan peninsula with it or stowed it in the bilges of a ship.

I've forgotten the year of make--I spent a couple of hours researching it, then forgot everything I learned. But it is early--very early.

I gave it to a friend who's a Vietnam vet Marine. Back when there was no such thing as an ex- or former-Marine. He has a pretty good collection of WWII Marine Corps militaria. Beat as it, he was delighted to have it.

 

[Unk]

It is a Kingston. The name has entirely rusted away from the bail. It looks like the original owner/issuee either fought his way to the end of the Bataan peninsula with it or stowed it in the bilges of a ship.

I've forgotten the year of make--I spent a couple of hours researching it, then forgot everything I learned. But it is early--very early.

I gave it to a friend who's a Vietnam vet Marine. Back when there was no such thing as an ex- or former-Marine. He has a pretty good collection of WWII Marine Corps militaria. Beat as it, he was delighted to have it.

I'm sure he was happy to have that one. Don't you wish it could talk!

 

[555]

@Unk Nice collection. In my little world we call the 863 a 3 blade stockman. I carried one for many, many years before downsizing to the 2 blade 1080T.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

In all honesty, I am not sure if this is Army issued

Are there any markings on the flip side or anywhere else? It's a very interesting knife. I had no idea that the Canadian Army had a version of the U.S. MIL-K.

the U.S. military, the demo knife (MIL-K-818) was developed at the end of WWII.

I'd have to go back and look to confirm, but I think there is documentation indicating it was being developed as early as 1943, was approved by the USMC, OQMG, and Infantry board in 1944, and went into limited production in 1945.

The origins are murkier than the major knife book authors (Silvey, Trzaska) or others (Cole) suggest and while they were part of the basic issue for "Demolition" kits, there are plenty of references to them as General Purpose ("G.P.") knives. One other nitnoid note. Because they are so popular, so commonly found in the later Camillus production, and so widely discussed by collectors, there is a huge misnomer involved in calling the wartime versions MIL-K's. All "MIL" related terminology, alluding to MIL-STANDARD, MILSPEC, etc, is a postwar nomenclature.

Kingston and a few other manufacturers made them over the years on government contract

A little more info on the wartime production from an earlier conversation about them here...

...there were only two companies making the stainless steel handled (future "MIL-K") versions during WWII: Kingston (USMC and Army) and Stevenson (Army only). Kingston was a joint venture, formed in 1943 by Ulster and Imperial, joining forces to make knives for the war. It was dissolved in 1947. All the Kingston knives had "Kingston" on the bale, along with the "U.S. MARINE CORPS" marking or nothing (Army version) on the scale, and a "PAT. PEND." marking under "CANOPENER", squeezed together just like that, on the can opener blade, and nothing but "USA" (no name, no date) on the tang of the main blade. That PAT PEND notice is referring to the Imperial patent.

The patent number was 2,391,732, granted to Michael Mirando on Dec 25, 1945.

...if it's a Kingston, I think they put the name on the bail.

They did. Here is mine. I don't have a close up, but the name is visible on this shot in upside down position. According to Cole, so did Stevenson. I don't recall ever seeing one in the wild or online.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Then I started looking for a 1962 version for my wife - and lo and behold, they were all priced around $200 to $300. Turns out that the U.S. military didn't need very many knives in 1962, so they only ordered a small number of them. -

Wow. Funny anecdote, and thanks for this. I had no idea!

My boyhood knife, which I still carry, is a 1963. It was a gift from my Great Aunt. She was an original W.A.A.C., enlisted in 1943 and retired in 1973. In addition to loading us up with months of groceries from the commissary at Tobyhanna Army Depot (kind of like a precursor for trips to Costco! ), she would bestow all kinds of surplus goodies on us. Not that I would ever sell it, even if it was a '62, but it just figures. I'm always a day late and a few dollars short.

 

[Notgrownup]

Are there any markings on the flip side or anywhere else? It's a very interesting knife. I had no idea that the Canadian Army had a version of the U.S. MIL-K.

I'd have to go back and look to confirm, but I think there is documentation indicating it was being developed as early as 1943, was approved by the USMC, OQMG, and Infantry board in 1944, and went into limited production in 1945.

The origins are murkier than the major knife book authors (Silvey, Trzaska) or others (Cole) suggest and while they were part of the basic issue for "Demolition" kits, there are plenty of references to them as General Purpose ("G.P.") knives. One other nitnoid note. Because they are so popular, so commonly found in the later Camillus production, and so widely discussed by collectors, there is a huge misnomer involved in calling the wartime versions MIL-K's. All "MIL" related terminology, alluding to MIL-STANDARD, MILSPEC, etc, is a postwar nomenclature.

A little more info on the wartime production from an earlier conversation about them here...

The patent number was 2,391,732, granted to Michael Mirando on Dec 25, 1945.

They did. Here is mine. I don't have a close up, but the name is visible on this shot in upside down position. According to Cole, so did Stevenson. I don't recall ever seeing one in the wild or online.

I looked everywhere and did not see any marks.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ Thanks.

What's neat about looking at your knife... The MIL-K has made such an indelible impression that it would be hard to "picture" it looking any different. I really like the knurled grip pattern on the scales. It's a simpler, wider diamond pattern that the wartime MIL-K precursor knives, and note that the knurling spans the entire surface, whereas the MIL-K's, including the later dimpled pattern jobbies, have a border. Also, this would be more obvious if we had them side by side, but the profiles are not the same. Your knife is more of an obloing rectangle, if that makes sense, with straighter lines. The MIL-K's bulge slightly in the middle.

If nobody else does so first, I may have to put my google-fu to work later to see if there is any info on a Canadian Army version.

 

[Beerhippie]

@Private Lugnutz wrote:.there were only two companies making the stainless steel handled (future "MIL-K") versions during WWII (future "MIL-K")

Just for note, the "stainless steel" flakes on my USMC knife--and others I've seen--are aluminum.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ Probably just me falling into the same anachronistic trap as the "MIL-K" nomenclature.

 

[Tchicken]

Here's one of my old Scout knives with a bone handle - anywhere from 86 to 99 years old so it outdates me . Ulster made BSA official knives from 1923 up to 1940

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here's one of my old Scout knives with a bone handle

Wow. That's a real beaut!

(I have a B.S.A. hip knife, not nearly as old, posted previously here, but the only pocket knife I have been able to find in the wild is a Camillus Cub Scout, posted previously here.)

 

[Unk]

Here's one of my old Scout knives with a bone handle - anywhere from 86 to 99 years old so it outdates me . Ulster made BSA official knives from 1923 up to 1940

Very nice old Scout knife. I like the old bone scales.

Here's my E.C. Simmons Keen Kutter, model K6559. According to Alvin Sellen's book, my camp knife (with sabre spear blade) was made 1913 to 1920. Most of my collection is old Simmons Keen Kutters - I always liked them - don't know why.

 

[Tchicken]

The Simmons' sure has that Camp Knife pattern down nicely. Its a wonder they never made an official BSA knife

 

[Unk]

The Simmons' sure has that Camp Knife pattern down nicely. Its a wonder they never made an official BSA knife

They did - according to Sellens book. They made the model K6559 in 1912 only (just 1 year) with "Be Prepared" on the shield, and the boy Scouts of America etched on the blade. I imagine one of those would be worth a pretty penny if you could find one.

 

[Tchicken]

They did - according to Sellens book. They made the model K6559 in 1912 only (just 1 year) with "Be Prepared" on the shield, and the boy Scouts of America etched on the blade. I imagine one of those would be worth a pretty penny if you could find one.

Ok, the book I have Official Scout Blades by Ed Holbrook shows the first "Official Scout" (his emphasis) knife in 1911 as well, made by the New York Knife Company (under the Hammer Brand). His description matches save for the shackle.

 

[Unk]

@Unk Nice collection. In my little world we call the 863 a 3 blade stockman. I carried one for many, many years before downsizing to the 2 blade 1080T.

Yes, I have seen some discussions on that was well. I tend to think of a whittler as a 3 blades, with two small ones on one end, and a main blade on the other end that seats between the two small ones. I think the Schrade 863 (and Camillus 72, Ulster 63) is unique in that it is a balloon or swell center frame, and has a coping blade instead of the normal stockman knife, which generally (but not always) has a spey blade. Here are some other variations of the Schrade 863 and Camillus 72 that I have collected over the years.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Confederate Bowie, and Sheath, $5,000-$8,000, Antiques Roadshow