S&K vs Snap-On other wrench makers

[wythors]

...And I love how you insist the only difference IS the marketing.

I mean, you have seriously have to think of us as morons. Morons who love to throw money at guys just because their trucks are full of shiny things.

Guess what? I'm always going to find that condescending attitude highly insulting. It's the reason I really don't like you. Or at least the person you appear to be judging by your posts.

THAT'S the reason the pro-wrenches get so wound up by these threads. We couldn't care less what the weekend warriors think about Snappy, because we know what's working for us, and that's what we'll continue to buy.

Believe me, I would LOVE to be able to FILL my box with $5,000 worth of cheap Craftsman, Stanley, and Husky tools and be done with the tool buying process.

I've got a stroker motor, an AR-15, and an AK-47 I need to be building with my expendable income. ...And my primary weapon for Action-Pistol matches needs a $200 rebuild as well. Oh, and a house that needs it's fair share of the dough.

But when you use tools all day long, you buy the cheapest one that will last for 20 years of daily abuse... Or can be warrantied whenever it breaks no-questions-asked. Anything else is a waste of money.

How do we know? Well, pretty much everyone starts in this business with a car-enthusiasts collection of "garage quality" tools. Mine were pretty much all Husky, Craftsman, and Pittsburgh/Harbor Freight. As they broke ,or failed, or repeatedly failed to remove the most stubborn of fasteners, they got replaced whenever I could afford it.

And for some reason, a box full of Matco, Mac, and Snap-On makes for a much smoother project than a box full of cheap stuff.

(That said, I'm growing fonder and fonder of Craftsman Professional tools for some uses.)

I agree with everything written here.

 

[wilbilt]

I don't really care if you believe me. If you want convinced, come join our ****-*** profession for a month, and you'll be convinced. I like tools that keep me from hurting myself and rounding things off. That's it.

If you don't believe Snap-On is better, that's fine. But you don't have the horrible cussing experiences cheap wrenches generate when you're bleeding or breaking parts on customers cars, and we do. So stop trying so hard to convince people that you're not wrong.

True words. I tried cheap, and they are not worth the trouble. I wore my body out living under an alignment rack for 60 hours a week. I also wore the chrome thin on most of my Snap-On wrenches in the process, but they are still there when I need them. The lesser ones are long gone.

I really don't care what anyone else thinks. I know what works and what doesn't. Even though my SO dealer turned out to be a flake, the tools kept my kids fed and diapered when it mattered (along with my sweat, blood and time).

 

[-lecroix-]

...And I love how you insist the only difference IS the marketing.

I didn't say that. I said that's where I give them credit. I'm still waiting on someone to provide proof that they are better in other fields. Still, no one has done that yet.

I mean, you have seriously have to think of us as morons. Morons who love to throw money at guys just because their trucks are full of shiny things.

I never said that either, but you sure are defensive of that truck full of shiny things. I suppose I would be too if that truck got 1/3 to 1/2 of my paycheck every week. That's gotta ****.

Guess what? I'm always going to find that condescending attitude highly insulting. It's the reason I really don't like you. Or at least the person you appear to be judging by your posts.

I don't give a big rat's *** whether you like me or not ... never ask you to like me, only to provide proof that "your favorite" tool is better than "my favorite tool."

And Guess What? You still haven't done that. All you have done is beat your chest and scream "I AM A PROFESSIONAL & I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT" and the rest of us "non-believers" are suppose to bow down and worship "because you say so" ...

THAT'S the reason the pro-wrenches get so wound up by these threads. We couldn't care less what the weekend warriors think about Snappy, because we know what's working for us, and that's what we'll continue to buy.

... lots of time posting on your part for you NOT to care what the rest of us think.

Believe me, I would LOVE to be able to FILL my box with $5,000 worth of cheap Craftsman, Stanley, and Husky tools and be done with the tool buying process.

Funny you mention those particular brands ... cause I never did.

I've got a stroker motor, an AR-15, and an AK-47 I need to be building with my expendable income. ...And my primary weapon for Action-Pistol matches needs a $200 rebuild as well. Oh, and a house that needs it's fair share of the dough.

um ... okay ... I got lots of toys too (REAL expensive ones), but what does that have to do with anything in this conversation???

But when you use tools all day long, you buy the cheapest one that will last for 20 years of daily abuse... Or can be warrantied whenever it breaks no-questions-asked. Anything else is a waste of money.

I don't "use tools all day long" because I can't afford the cut in pay ... but I can fulfill all those specifics for a lot less money than Snap On.

How do we know? Well, pretty much everyone starts in this business with a car-enthusiasts collection of "garage quality" tools. Mine were pretty much all Husky, Craftsman, and Pittsburgh/Harbor Freight. As they broke ,or failed, or repeatedly failed to remove the most stubborn of fasteners, they got replaced whenever I could afford it.

Ok, but this still doesn't prove that one brand is better than the other. Still a matter of personal preference. Opinion is not fact.

And for some reason, a box full of Matco, Mac, and Snap-On makes for a much smoother project than a box full of cheap stuff.

I have a box full of both ... the only thing I have noticed that makes the job smoother is the ability of the guy turning the wrench.

But I will give you this ... the expensive **** makes for a shinier box, anyway.

(That said, I'm growing fonder and fonder of Craftsman Professional tools for some uses.)

uh ... ok?

 

[Spookrider]

popcorn any one? Be nice now, no corn chucking around here.

 

[eschoendorff]

popcorn any one? Be nice now, no corn chucking around here.

I have some pop corn over here. Some of the kernels are unpopped though. Got the popcorn machine at Sears. Should bought it off the truck....

 

[Itzkwik]

Got the popcorn machine at Sears.

I got mine from Wally World. I bet its as good as or better quality than your Sears machine. What is it with you guys and your Sears stuff?

 

[-lecroix-]

mine came from Harbor Freight & in only works half the time, but I saved a bundle

 

[TNToy]

...Only to Provide proof that "your favorite" tool is better than "my favorite tool."

And Guess What? You still haven't done that. All you have done is beat your chest and scream "I AM A PROFESSIONAL & I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT" and the rest of us "non-believers" are suppose to bow down and worship "because you say so" ...

I must have missed the beating and screaming thing. You've heard from 4 or 5 guys (including myself) who make less money than you do, and who spend a whole lot more time with our tools scattered across the bench pulling transmissions than you do. And every last one of us prefers Snap-On, Mac, and Matco over Husky, Craftsman, and Pittsburgh.

Why isn't that good enough for you? And how does that somehow get translated into a request to be treated like a god?

I'd switch jobs with you in a heartbeat, not even knowing what you do. I just know that mine has many, many downsides. Bad hours. Stiff joints. Busted knuckles. Crappy pay. However, it has two upsides: We know our cars, and we know our tools.

Both of those come with experience. For example:
When I started, I laughed at all of the guys with $75 Snap-On and Matco hammers. $75 for a HAMMER? Please. I'll buy a baby sledge from Home Depot for $25 that will knock brake rotors loose just as well.

Well, in the first year, I broke 2 of those things. One from Sears and one from Home Depot. I now own three $50-75 hammers from Matco, in different weights. The head is filled with shot in the dead-blow style, the handle and head are all one piece of H.D. urethane, I can wail on something with rediculously litte rebound, and I have yet to break one.

When I start fully collecting tools for the house, you damn well better believe I'm going to have 3 sizes of high-dollar hammers there, too.

[/i]Referring to "The only difference is the marketing"...

I didn't say that. I said that's where I give them credit. I'm still waiting on someone to provide proof that they are better in other fields. Still, no one has done that yet.

...If you give them credit for being better at marketing, but not in any other way, then that is EXACTLY what you are saying.

...You sure are defensive of that truck full of shiny things. I suppose I would be too if that truck got 1/3 to 1/2 of my paycheck every week. That's gotta ****.

I give then 8% - 10% ... Depending on my income for the week. I know a lot of guys who live paycheck-to-paycheck and give 'em 25% or more... But my wife and I have six months income saved up, plus a bunch of retirement investments. I'd rather not have ALL the tools, than have my power cut off because an unexpeced expense pops up. Much like yourself, I'd imagine.

Still, you have no idea how much it ***** to watch part of your check evaporate every time the tool truck stops by. The thing is, you don't stop to fully examine WHY we're willing to do it. You say it's marketing, and all of us have been saying that it's because we have to. And again, that's where you rub us all the wrong way...

ACTUAL SCENARIO:
I've been happily using a certain tool from brand Y tool for months without trouble, and it just broke. Damn.

I go borrow that tool from another tech, named Timmy. It's made by Bob's Overpriced Tools Company. It works a bit better, but there's no overwhelming difference. I finish the job, and return the tool.

"Hey Timmy, how long have you been servicing timing belts with this widget?"
"Six years."
"Wow. I broke mine after doing a couple of dozen belts with it."

Two days later, the truck rolls around. Guess what I'm buying? That's righ, Timmy's Widget from Bob's Ripoff Tools Co.

Does everyone require Bob's timing belt widget? Absolutely not. For someone who might do 5 timing belts in his life, it's an absurd waste of money that would be bought only to stroke the ego. But at some point, you use it often enough that the extra cost is worth the absence of down-time with broken tools.

YOUR SCENARIO:

Bob's Ripoff Tools Co. pulls up to the shop...
"That widget sure looks shiny, I better buy one. I mean, look how hot the girl holding it on the cover of this flyer is! I can sell the one I've already got, and use this unobtanium one instead. Dude! It comes in black with orange flames! Looks like I'm not eating this month..."

*Thumps chest and looks for wayward idol worshippers*

 

[Uncle Buck]

Munch, Munch, Munch!

 

[eschoendorff]

Holy ****! TNT and lecroix both have interesting and (in at least some ways) valid points. I'm going to need to upgrade to an SK popcorn machine. Still can't afford Snap On.


I bet that SK popcorn machine has a flawless finish.....

 

[shocksystems]

I must have missed the beating and screaming thing. You've heard from 4 or 5 guys (including myself) who make less money than you do, and who spend a whole lot more time with our tools scattered across the bench pulling transmissions than you do. And every last one of us prefers Snap-On, Mac, and Matco over Husky, Craftsman, and Pittsburgh.

Why isn't that good enough for you? And how does that somehow get translated into a request to be treated like a god?

I'd switch jobs with you in a heartbeat, not even knowing what you do. I just know that mine has many, many downsides. Bad hours. Stiff joints. Busted knuckles. Crappy pay. However, it has two upsides: We know our cars, and we know our tools.

Both of those come with experience. For example:
When I started, I laughed at all of the guys with $75 Snap-On and Matco hammers. $75 for a HAMMER? Please. I'll buy a baby sledge from Home Depot for $25 that will knock brake rotors loose just as well.

Well, in the first year, I broke 2 of those things. One from Sears and one from Home Depot. I now own three $50-75 hammers from Matco, in different weights. The head is filled with shot in the dead-blow style, the handle and head are all one piece of H.D. urethane, I can wail on something with rediculously litte rebound, and I have yet to break one.

When I start fully collecting tools for the house, you damn well better believe I'm going to have 3 sizes of high-dollar hammers there, too.


...If you give them credit for being better at marketing, but not in any other way, then that is EXACTLY what you are saying.



I give then 8% - 10% ... Depending on my income for the week. I know a lot of guys who live paycheck-to-paycheck and give 'em 25% or more... But my wife and I have six months income saved up, plus a bunch of retirement investments. I'd rather not have ALL the tools, than have my power cut off because an unexpeced expense pops up. Much like yourself, I'd imagine.

Still, you have no idea how much it ***** to watch part of your check evaporate every time the tool truck stops by. The thing is, you don't stop to fully examine WHY we're willing to do it. You say it's marketing, and all of us have been saying that it's because we have to. And again, that's where you rub us all the wrong way...

ACTUAL SCENARIO:
I've been happily using a certain tool from brand Y tool for months without trouble, and it just broke. Damn.

I go borrow that tool from another tech, named Timmy. It's made by Bob's Overpriced Tools Company. It works a bit better, but there's no overwhelming difference. I finish the job, and return the tool.

"Hey Timmy, how long have you been servicing timing belts with this widget?"
"Six years."
"Wow. I broke mine after doing a couple of dozen belts with it."

Two days later, the truck rolls around. Guess what I'm buying? That's righ, Timmy's Widget from Bob's Ripoff Tools Co.

Does everyone require Bob's timing belt widget? Absolutely not. For someone who might do 5 timing belts in his life, it's an absurd waste of money that would be bought only to stroke the ego. But at some point, you use it often enough that the extra cost is worth the absence of down-time with broken tools.

YOUR SCENARIO:

Bob's Ripoff Tools Co. pulls up to the shop...
"That widget sure looks shiny, I better buy one. I mean, look how hot the girl holding it on the cover of this flyer is! I can sell the one I've already got, and use this unobtanium one instead. Dude! It comes in black with orange flames! Looks like I'm not eating this month..."

*Thumps chest and looks for wayward idol worshippers*

So funny .. and well written. Very entertaining and you raise valid points.

Speaking for someone who did not go the mechanic career route but thought about it, I am not sure the grass is greener in the corporate world. Too bad we couldn't trade places for a few weeks, might make us both happy.

Way to go.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[kartracer55]

Both have valid points, I both agree and disagree with each of them. Im just a kid and I havent been doing this too long, but I CAN say that there really is a difference and you will notice this difference if you use a tool 40hrs/week (actually more, but dont tell to government that! lol).

Proof? Ok... 3/8 deep 10mm Snap On socket takes around 115ftlbs to crack it. Matco takes like 105 and MAC less than 100ftlbs. There. Ive added proof.

Cheap tools WILL get the job done, but as TNT said, its a question of how long. Heres a good example.

Put a craftsman box wrench on a bolt and tighten the nut down with an impact gun. Im talking about a larger size. Do this a few times and watch the metal flake off from the "points" of the craftsman box end. Ive watched it before my eyes. I rounded out a 17mm craftsman wrench like this, literally rounded out the insides. This wrench was a few years old, but saw heavy use over the course of 2-3 weekends, which is what killed it. Now, I do this with snap On and Matco wrenches at work all the time, and these wrenches get used daily and have been used and abused for years. These wrenches can stand up to alot more, which is what justifies the cost, not the shiney chrome plating.

The craftsman wrench would last the average tool user years and years, and is fine for the money, but simply does not cut it as a primary use tool for a professional hat will get used daily. Plain and simple. Snap On is a higher quality wrench, and some items, especially wrenches MUST be of a higher quality when used professinally because they are used so frequently. Theres no ifs ands or buts about it and anybody who disagrees does not know what they are talking about.

High end tools DO make a difference to the professional. Certain features mean time saved when working, and its all about saving time because nobody wants to pay a fair wage. They expect amazing repairs for peanuts.

 

[TNToy]

Well said, Jim

Speaking for someone who did not go the mechanic career route but thought about it, I am not sure the grass is greener in the corporate world. Too bad we couldn't trade places for a few weeks, might make us both happy.

Jim

I've mentioned this before, but people seem to forget it. I was working in the corporate world doing 2nd-tier tech support and some freelance web-design on the side, while I worked my way through school at night. I did this from 21-25, because it's tough to finish school while working a full-time job that doesn't really have a lunch break that even lets you study.

After just that long, I found it soul-crushing, and basically "ran away from home" to become a mechanic. I'm now 28 and I've been doing this stuff for a few years full-time.

There are super-crappy jobs where I'm wishing I was still sitting at a desk as I try to figure out WHY the climate-control module on a brand new vehicle won't talk to the damn ECM... and no one anywhere knows anything about this brand new vehicle yet...

...But as soon as I figure it out, I get a little glimpse of why I don't regret the job-change decision very often. Just once or twice a week when I want to set a customers car on fire and push it off a lift that's 8 feet in the air.

 

[Spookrider]

Cease Fire Cease Fire Neutral Corners Every One And Have A Bucket Of Corn With Non-trans Fat Butter.

 

[MarkH]

Speaking for someone who did not go the mechanic career route but thought about it, I am not sure the grass is greener in the corporate world. Too bad we couldn't trade places for a few weeks, might make us both happy.

Very true words. I have worked more jobs than most people ever will. It was what I had to do to eat. In each one of them there were people who bitched and people who did the job. I learned which one to be. For what I do now, today was the 18th 12 hour day out of the last 19, it had some of the problems that made me think why do I do this, but it ended on the positive note we figured out something and made progress. So you think of the grumps and make the choice is life ain't that bad.