POR 15 floor epoxy
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KnightFire
Well-known member
How high of a gloss did you want? If you note this photo:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KnightFire01/NewHomeInCharlesTownWVBeingBuilt/photo#5100175204074231234
Look at the sink and it's mirror image on the floor, take note of the radon pipe and it's image in the floor, the cement below the dry wall, etc. I did use ONE coat of clear coat, I did NOT want a high gloss floor, I had the option of using three clear coat gallons with my kit. With my current floor, once the sun hits the high gloss area, it becomes blinding and makes it hard to do any work during the late afternoon--with the door open. The glare is just too distracting...
In fact I believe that this floor is a bit too glossy...for me. As you can see the reflections of the stripe I painted and anything even near the floor, reflects in the floor, again which is why I only used one coat. I just wanted the protection the clear coat provides, not the high luster...
Here is another photo that shows the reflection factor:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KnightFire01/NewHomeInCharlesTownWVBeingBuilt/photo#5100175315743380962
Note the stairs, pipe, sink areas on the floor...
For me it is a bit TOO glossy, but I think it'll be ok as this area will be big enough as I won't need the doors open to work comfortably.
Photo note: I had to turn the flash off the camera, as it would photograph the flash and not the floor...
If your ever in my area (Charlestown WV), your free to take a look and see if it is/isn't what your looking for in a flooring system.
Hope this helps!!!
SteveL
Well-known member
Chris....since I'm going to use my own chips, is there a way to buy the basic kit and then get the clear coat seperatly? Not sure if I can justify the delux kit just to get the clear when I won't use the other stuff that comes with it.
Or.....can a person just order the color coats and clear coat by the gallon? I have 780 sq ft so I assume that i would need 4 gallons of color and two clear, correct?
Or.....can a person just order the color coats and clear coat by the gallon? I have 780 sq ft so I assume that i would need 4 gallons of color and two clear, correct?
volvo
Well-known member
.
...wow...
...wow...
Hammerdown
Well-known member
Double "WOW"!!! "We took their roof and made it our foundation", I like that one, that is a good sales line. I like it a lot. First post and he comes out swinging. Cool.
Sometimes it is easier to improve a product than to develope it. R & D costs a lot of money, where as tweaking existing formulas to make them your own is not as costly.
Just my two cents.
Sometimes it is easier to improve a product than to develope it. R & D costs a lot of money, where as tweaking existing formulas to make them your own is not as costly.
Just my two cents.
Black Diamond
Member
HMMMMMM! Now I am really confused on what to buy.
One thing that I still do not understand is how a product that is made prmairly for metal can be used successfully on a concrete floor and still have the durability of withstanding chemicals and "Hot" tires. It seems to me that a "floor coating" would have different properties from that of a "metal coating". I am assuming that KBS is an Epoxy coating as well. If so, is there a clear topcoat available and what type of coating is it? I am also interested in the colored flakes and an anti-skid additive (very important for my application).
There seems to be a few good coatings out there, Epoxy-Coat, Por-15 and now KBS products.
My challenge is to all of the vendors that have posted here on the forum to convince me why "their" product should be the one I choose to use on my floor to give me a good looking, long lasting and maintenance free floor.
One thing that I still do not understand is how a product that is made prmairly for metal can be used successfully on a concrete floor and still have the durability of withstanding chemicals and "Hot" tires. It seems to me that a "floor coating" would have different properties from that of a "metal coating". I am assuming that KBS is an Epoxy coating as well. If so, is there a clear topcoat available and what type of coating is it? I am also interested in the colored flakes and an anti-skid additive (very important for my application).
There seems to be a few good coatings out there, Epoxy-Coat, Por-15 and now KBS products.
My challenge is to all of the vendors that have posted here on the forum to convince me why "their" product should be the one I choose to use on my floor to give me a good looking, long lasting and maintenance free floor.
SteveL
Well-known member
Not sure that I would have posted all of that in this thread.........as I would never ever slam the competition to get a sale. It's much more appropriate to start a new thread and outline the benifits of their products and how it is better than everyone elses.
All that being said, I have a few reservations about using the POR15 product primarily due to the various issues that others have had and the cost. Best I can figure, POR15 will cost me about a grand for my 780 sq ft floor and there are a number of other products that have gotten very good reviews on this forum for half of that. I'm still waiting to see the color samples and I'm sure that they will have some influence on which way I end up going. I also have samples coming from Epoxy Coat and I guess I'll ask for some from KBS to give them a fair shot.
All that being said, I have a few reservations about using the POR15 product primarily due to the various issues that others have had and the cost. Best I can figure, POR15 will cost me about a grand for my 780 sq ft floor and there are a number of other products that have gotten very good reviews on this forum for half of that. I'm still waiting to see the color samples and I'm sure that they will have some influence on which way I end up going. I also have samples coming from Epoxy Coat and I guess I'll ask for some from KBS to give them a fair shot.
Hammerdown
Well-known member
I know everybody likes to get color samples from the different coating, but they should only be used as a guideline, not as a difinitive for color matching purposes. Every product has standard colors, and manufacturers do their best to keep the colors consistant. But every batch, even of the same color is or can be a slightly different color. Variations in the colored feed stock that are used differ, however slightly, from batch to batch. If you receive a sample in January, very likely it will be a completely different batch when you order in June. (Using months as an example) Usually batches don't last too long, so I would not be matching colors precisely but using them as a rough guide.
Once again, just my $.02
Once again, just my $.02
volvo
Well-known member
.. Dang.. Where is consumer reports when you need them ?? ( I think that what most of us like would like to see is an unbiased head to head prep/install , plus an evaluation of the top comparable products).....H
ANY top company takers ?????
ANY top company takers ?????
SteveL
Well-known member
That's a great idea. I would be more than happy to do that as I can use one product on my floor and I have three buddies that could use the others for comparison. I would get all four of us to be involved in each project and have all four write a review of application and finished results. Now how do we get the manufactures to donate the product? Seems like a rather inexpensive means of advertising and a way to prove if their product is as good as they say it is.
If any manufacture is interested in pursuing this, please send me an e-mail. All of our floors will be done by the end of October.
If any manufacture is interested in pursuing this, please send me an e-mail. All of our floors will be done by the end of October.
Do you have any color samples? I have a few from a few different companies and will use these to make my decision. Also do you offer a clear top coat?
And I thought I was confused before, now I am even more confused. Just as I am about to pull the trigger on one product, here comes another. OK KBS - clear coat? glossy finish? color flakes? You talk alot about your product, I go to the web site and realy get nothing to look at!! How about some pics, you bring up some good points and have some fancy slogans but no pictures to back it up. I am just a consumer looking to do my, all-be-it small 2 car garage to improve the look of the area where I like to spend time working on my vette and looking to get the best bang for my buck. At this point I should have never come here and just gone to Home Depot and got the box kit their. I want pictures of real projects, not sales pitches, please put up or shut up!!!
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SteveL
Well-known member
I could not agree more.
MotorCity57
Member
Chris, I'd like to get in on the group buy. I need the 3.5 car deluxe kit. I'll send you an email.
John
Wow - all I can say about this is you have NO CLASS KBS Coatings. If you want to pitch your product, start another thread. Don't troll a website and then try to come clean later. You posted under a pseudonym, muddied up the waters and then came clean about who you are. Personally, I'll think long and hard before considering buying anything from KBS Coatings because of this.
OK, I just spoke with Chris from the POR-15 Depot and pulled the trigger on a 400 sf Deluxe kit. I will keep everyone posted and will give you an honest stright forward write up on the prep and installation of this system. It will be a NO BS to the point, good and bad. I hope I am not disappointed and I will be honest on my feedback. I am a true DIY homeowner and look forward to getting it done. I know based on all the feedback here that the kit will arrive in a very timely manner, but the weather here in South Carolina has been in the 100's for the past 13 days so I will have to wait a while till the temp goes down to install, but I will keep everyone posted. I will start a new thread with pictures of before, during and after.
Chris - Any update on the Group Buy? I'm ready to get started painting my garage floor. Thanks
POR-15 Chris
Well-known member
If you are wanting in on the Group Buy please send me a private message letting me know or just give me a call At (903) 285-6540
Let me know that your from the garage journal and ill get the order put together and well get these out.As Soon As I get 10 orders.Then ill start another set of 10.
Thanks,
Let me know that your from the garage journal and ill get the order put together and well get these out.As Soon As I get 10 orders.Then ill start another set of 10.
Thanks,
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SteveL
Well-known member
Chris... Have you sent the samples yet? My samples from Epoxy Coat were shipped today and I need to make a decision. Thanks!
POR-15 Chris
Well-known member
MotorCity57
Member
I called Chris and placed my order this morning. He's waiting to get 10 firm orders before he turns them in.
Chris - could you post a message on this board when you submit the group order so we have an idea when to expect the product? Thanks.
John
Chris - could you post a message on this board when you submit the group order so we have an idea when to expect the product? Thanks.
John
POR-15 Chris
Well-known member
I received my order today, like everyone else that had problems so did I. I was worried that I would get the wrong color, guess I don't have to worry about that as I got 3 gallons of clear coat and no lt grey paint. 
I have already PM'd Chris and I trust he will make this right ASAP. Good thing I was not planning on doing this project this weekend!!!!
I have already PM'd Chris and I trust he will make this right ASAP. Good thing I was not planning on doing this project this weekend!!!!toms73novass
Well-known member
Unfortunately I am going to back out of the group purchase. The quality control is beginning to concern me.... If they can't even get a shipment correct for anyone......(my concern on quality control of product itself) I will consider it in the future once they possibly get their act together. (this in directed at corporate not the por-15 depot). I do want to do my garage and this product seems ideal because I will not have to do all the major prep on my oil stained concrete. I am going to take a back seat for a while and see how the product holds up for those that have used it.
Floor Failure:
Today,
I went out to my garage and there it was- floor failure in three small areas.
My wife is TOUGH on garage floors. She enters and exits like Jeff Gordon.
Still, I was expecting 6 months or more before a touch-up. I repaired the defects in 30 minutes. Second coat this afternoon (will sand lighty between coats) and then two coats of clear (heavy) tomorrow. I have enough product for 4-5 repairs like the one described above.
The concrete below the spots was PERFECT (no old expoxy, no oil, etc.).
I also notice that certain tires leave marks on the floor which require a lot of work for removal. In fact, two times I have needed one minute of epoxy paint removal spray to get the mark out.
These marks occur in my bay and NOT my wife's bay where the failure occurred.
Oh well, you now know that POR 15 is just a fancy, heavy duty paint and NOT equal to a high grade Epoxy. My plan is Race Track next summer if more failures occur (and I fully expect they will).
Value
Today,
I went out to my garage and there it was- floor failure in three small areas.
My wife is TOUGH on garage floors. She enters and exits like Jeff Gordon.
Still, I was expecting 6 months or more before a touch-up. I repaired the defects in 30 minutes. Second coat this afternoon (will sand lighty between coats) and then two coats of clear (heavy) tomorrow. I have enough product for 4-5 repairs like the one described above.
The concrete below the spots was PERFECT (no old expoxy, no oil, etc.).
I also notice that certain tires leave marks on the floor which require a lot of work for removal. In fact, two times I have needed one minute of epoxy paint removal spray to get the mark out.
These marks occur in my bay and NOT my wife's bay where the failure occurred.
Oh well, you now know that POR 15 is just a fancy, heavy duty paint and NOT equal to a high grade Epoxy. My plan is Race Track next summer if more failures occur (and I fully expect they will).
Value
shocksystems
Well-known member
Value: Can you post pictures of future failures? Would like to see exactly how it fails in your case. Thanks! Jim
I already started the repair process this morning. I am not bashing this product. I spent a lot of time and money on my floor with POR 15. I purchased $1500 worth of materials plus rented a sander and worked my Tuchus (Tukus?) off putting it down.
The material peeled off the floor. Unlike Epoxy the floor beneath it was completely bare. All the product peeled off to a certain point (three inches).
I sanded down the areas near the vacant spot and I tried to peel off the surrounding material. Solid as a rock. Perhaps, the armor-all in my wife's Mario Andretti Honda Odyssey caused the failure?
I don't know the reason but it wasn't floor prep failure. Again, the repair blends easily with the surrounding areas and I am applying the product HEAVY. I will report on more problems or failure areas.
But, you have been WARNED that failure is possible and high grade EPOXY is superior. I plan on Race Track next summer over the floor.
Value
Sorry to hear your having problems, Value.
Pics would be great, the next time you get a chance...
Why are you so sure high grade epoxy is superior? I've seen a LOT of commercial epoxy peel in my time. Do you have some comparative experience with epoxy?
A multi-layered Epoxy floor (20 mils) that has been prepped properly does not peel in 30 days.
I reapired the floor today. You only need 2 oz. of product with 0.5 oz of activator to repair several spots. Tonight, I place the first coat of clear.
Tomorrow, the second coat of cloar and then on Wed. the wife can use her bay.
The Por 15 peeled right off the concrete. It resembled paint chipping off a car. I was able to peel off any loose POR 15 and sand the "tight" areas around the bare spot. Then, I coated the bare areas HEAVY with product.
Could the PineSol floor cleaner have caused a problem? Pinesol plus armorall on wife's Honda?
If the floor holds for 6 months without another repair then I would consider doing my next home with POR 15. Right now, the jury is still out. I will keep you updated. But, the product is NOT equivalent to a 20 mil high grade epoxy floor.
WOW 
this just blows me away. I just spent over $500 on this product and have yet to put it down and I am losing confidence fast. I just spent all day doing prep work and will spend most of tomorrow doing the same. I hope it is not all in vain. If I put this down and 30 days later I have a peeling issue I will be very pissed. You think I was pissed when they messed up my order, that will be like a walk in the park compaired to a peeling issue.
Value, how many layers of clear did you put on?
this just blows me away. I just spent over $500 on this product and have yet to put it down and I am losing confidence fast. I just spent all day doing prep work and will spend most of tomorrow doing the same. I hope it is not all in vain. If I put this down and 30 days later I have a peeling issue I will be very pissed. You think I was pissed when they messed up my order, that will be like a walk in the park compaired to a peeling issue. Value, how many layers of clear did you put on?
WOW
Value, how many layers of clear did you put on?
Relax,
I found the reason for my floor failure: me. I failed to removed all the old water based epoxy. It seems that sanding with 80 grit paper was NOT enough in a few areas. The old epoxy caused the POR 15 to fail. I examined the flakes (looked at the bottom/belly) and found old epoxy in EVERY spot.
THe good news is that when the POR peeled off it took the old epoxy with it. So, the reapirs should hold in those areas.
Again, POR 15 is a good product. But, you need a completely BARE area of concrete beneath it if you plan on parking cars there.
I expect a few more areas may pop up on my floor. NO big deal as the repair came out perfect. Also, I didn't add the grit/sand to my repair as this may allow less contact between tire and floor. Yes, the floor would be slippery but the tire is less likley to cause failure (in my opinion).
I like the POR 15 floor. I will keep you updated. But, my Mercedes Benz tire did cause two spots to have a PERMANENT tire mark on the floor (not a failure). This occurred 3 days after completion of the project. While I was repainting the the bare spots I sanded those areas down and repainted them as well.
It seems aggressive tires like a sports sedan requires 4-5 days drying time even in my humidity.
I am happy with the color and the product. If I had bare concrete I would use the product again at this point. For those with old paint or epoxy you must get that stuff off in all areas where the cars are parked.
Value
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WOW
Value, how many layers of clear did you put on?
The CLEAR is the key to keeping the floor down in problem areas. The paint is very good but any areas of weak adhesion are more prone to failure. I found that a thick coat of clear without grit/sand is the best defense against floor failure in a bad area. If you have any bad areas where the POR 15 adhesion may be poor follow this advice and you won't have any problems. The Clear dries like a rubber sheet.
Value, thanks. My floor has never had anything on it and I did fill in some cracks with filler. I spent all day yesterday scraping and sanding as I want to do as much prep work as possible without going too crazy. I am planning on 2 clear coats and the fact that I am only doing half of the garage at a time I plan on giving it at least 2 - 3 weeks before any driving on it.
Thanks again
Thanks again
This may be a dumb question, however, the "cure time" window that is stated above refers to the minimum time before applying the next coat or the maximum time to apply the next coat within? Quick responses would be appreciated as I applied the first coat this morning
This may be a dumb question, however, the "cure time" window that is stated above refers to the minimum time before applying the next coat or the maximum time to apply the next coat within? Quick responses would be appreciated as I applied the first coat this morning
Common sense approach. Touch an area of the floor, is it dry? It goes from tacky to dry in about an hour. The maximum time between coats ia about 24-48 hours. The minimum is as stated above. In my area 6 hours is enough time to apply the next coat. Depending on your humidity it may be a bit longer in your area.
SteveL
Well-known member
Value....you stated that the tire marking that your car caused happened within the first three days of applying the product. I was under the imprssion that one should let ANY garage floor coating cure for more like 5-7 days before driving on it. Did their instructions say differently?
When I did my floor 10 years ago with Benjamin Moore epoxy, I let it cure for a week before driving on it and only had one tiny spot lift under a hot tire. I'm convinced that it was my prep that caused it as there has never been another.
When I did my floor 10 years ago with Benjamin Moore epoxy, I let it cure for a week before driving on it and only had one tiny spot lift under a hot tire. I'm convinced that it was my prep that caused it as there has never been another.
The directions state 72 hours. I followed them. My area is exceptionally humid (80% plus) so that should help curing time as well. For your information my 4 Runner tires and Honda Odyssey tires did NOT leave any permanent marks after 72 hours. The low profile tires (softer) probably has different tread making more of a mark on the floor.
I also found that 20 days after completion of the floor my Mercedes still left marks on the floor that required HEAVY work and 20 seconds of epoxy paint removal spray (more than 45 seconds causes the paint/top coat to come off)
to get out. My conclusion is that soft tires after a high speed drive (hot) leaves marks on this floor that must be addressed quickly. This is a "flaw" in the product albeit a minor one.
Value
AS for hot tire lift causing failure on my floor- I agree it was the old epoxy beneath the POR 15 that was the primary cause. I repaired the three spots and am not waiting 48 more hours before using the bay.
I expect a few more spots to occur over the next 6 months because I was not able to remove all the old water based epoxy. The good news is that the repair blends nice and is easy to perform.
My bay is perfect because I don't turn the tires or exit/enter like a Nascar driver. My wife's bay will have the problems because she is tough on garage floors.
Value
I expect a few more spots to occur over the next 6 months because I was not able to remove all the old water based epoxy. The good news is that the repair blends nice and is easy to perform.
My bay is perfect because I don't turn the tires or exit/enter like a Nascar driver. My wife's bay will have the problems because she is tough on garage floors.
Value
Thanks for the update on the root cause, Value. I appreciate the information.