10G wire for 15A outlet?

[bww_mnm]

Hi,

I couldn't find form surfing, so hoping someone may know the answer:

A friend moved into a new house. She had an electric stove. I assume it's a 220V, 30A breaker, 10g wire.

She's going to a gas stove instead, but needs 120V for the electronics (clock, ignitor, etc).

Can I swap out the 220V 30A breaker to a 120V 15A breaker and use the existing 10g wire? And, does code allow this?

Thanks,
Brad

 

[cowboyjosh]

I don't see why not, but it (10 gauge wire) will be a PITA to work with in terms of wiring the outlet and trimming out the outlet in the wall box.

What you might do, is just go ahead and run a new 15 amp line to the gas range. I can run Romex and cut new boxes in quicker then I can modify, so its easy for me to suggest. Many new homes, by code in many locations, have both a 220 outlet and a 110 volt outlet behind the range.

Hope this helps

 

[mrblister]

If needed use wire terminals to connect the wire to the(pin) breaker and(fork) outlet.

 

[Norcal]

If needed use wire terminals to connect the wire to the(pin) breaker and(fork) outlet.

They are not listed for solid wire, nor for connection to a wiring device.

 

[swaterbenny]

I don't see why not, but it (10 gauge wire) will be a PITA to work with in terms of wiring the outlet and trimming out the outlet in the wall box.

What you might do, is just go ahead and run a new 15 amp line to the gas range. I can run Romex and cut new boxes in quicker then I can modify, so its easy for me to suggest. Many new homes, by code in many locations, have both a 220 outlet and a 110 volt outlet behind the range.

Hope this helps

I would like to see you fish from one side of a basement with a finished ceiling to the other hitting all the preexisting holes.

Is this piped or romex? I'm assuming romex or similar. Just splice some 14's onto the 10's if you can't get the 10's on the outlet. Make sure you can get one of the current hots to reach the neutral bar, or you will have to splice in the panel which *****, but sometimes must be done.
Be careful in the panel!

Ben

 

[Grogan14]

If this is other than just an electric drop-in cooktop, it's going to be something larger than just #10 copper.

*For MrSmartyPants below - I've never encountered one homeowner, be they mechanic (a mostly unlicensed trade) or something other, that can properly splice what is most likely #6 or #8 stranded wire, and quite possibly aluminum, to #14 copper, which is what this would necessitate.

It's nice to help out a friend, but anything other than the most basic of electrical work is best left to a professional, especially in anything other than your own home.

 

[MrMark]

It's a gas stove. If you are talking about what is there 10 is common. My oven could be served very easily with 10 gauge.

It's nice to do wiring yourself so that you can ensure it is done right. Many "professionals" lack basic knowledge and skill.

You may be the best electrician in the world, and your limited posts seem to show knowledge, but the unfortunate reality is that some electricians don't know the basics beyond the mechanics.

It just rubs me the wrong way to see the "leave it to the professional" posts here. This is really not the place for that. This is a self-help forum for people interested in learning and doing things themselves; not a place for electricians or plumbers or whomever to come in sounding off about "professionals" and how the house will start burning down if an electrician is not involved.

As I've posted before, electrical work is probably the most forgiving of all mediums for being able to absolutely screw everything up and the lights still turn on at the end of the day. I routinely have seen stuff done by licensed electricians that can only make you laugh. Nothing wrong with an eager to learn homeower consulting resources and studying to do electical work. Most of it really is quite simple and more about knowing the mechanics of the trade (what boxes are avail. for example) than anything else.

 

[Grogan14]

It's a gas stove. If you are talking about what is there 10 is common. My oven could be served very easily with 10 gauge.

It's nice to do wiring yourself so that you can ensure it is done right. Many "professionals" lack basic knowledge and skill.

You may be the best electrician in the world, and your posts seem to show knowledge, but the unfortunate reality is that most electricians don't know the basics beyond the mechanics.

Another huge coming your way.

Oh, you can do me a huge favor though, and tell me how I put you on ignore, .

 

[MrMark]

Whatever. It's OK to be proud and think that your vocation is the greatest but to repeatedly post on a self-help forum about leaving it to the "professional" is not helpful. Much better to simply share knowledge with appropriate warnings as to safety when warranted.

 

[MrMark]

You can figure that out easy enough. Just consult the control panel.

You are a real piece of work. Sorry to hurt your wee little professional feelings.

 

[Grogan14]

You can figure that out easy enough. Just consult the control panel.

Of course I can, MrSmartyPants.

Your type is nothing new on these boards...

 

[MrMark]

If this is other than just an electric drop-in cooktop, it's going to be something larger than just #10 copper.

*For MrSmartyPants below - I've never encountered one homeowner, be they mechanic (a mostly unlicensed trade) or something other, that can properly splice what is most likely #6 or #8 stranded wire, and quite possibly aluminum, to #14 copper, which is what this would necessitate.

It's nice to help out a friend, but anything other than the most basic of electrical work is best left to a professional, especially in anything other than your own home.

hmmm, you mean like a wire nut perhaps? How about a 74B or a 76B? Who said he had to use #14, although the combination for 1 #14 with 1 #6 is there on the 76B nut? What about #12, would that be OK? #6 for a range? Not likely. Even so, the combinations are there.

http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/references/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf

 

[bww_mnm]

I would like to see you fish from one side of a basement with a finished ceiling to the other hitting all the preexisting holes.

Is this piped or romex? I'm assuming romex or similar. Just splice some 14's onto the 10's if you can't get the 10's on the outlet. Make sure you can get one of the current hots to reach the neutral bar, or you will have to splice in the panel which *****, but sometimes must be done.
Be careful in the panel!

Ben

Thanks everyone.

I like the idea of wire nutting in the box 10 to 14g. Should be pretty straight fwd. Nice piece is it can be converted back to 30A 220V if someone decides they want to go back to electric vs gas.

 

[walrus]

. Many "professionals" lack basic knowledge and skill.

You may be the best electrician in the world, and your posts seem to show knowledge, but the unfortunate reality is that most electricians don't know the basics beyond the mechanics..

Nice broad brush you're painting with

 

[bww_mnm]

hmmm, you mean like a wire nut perhaps? How about a 74B or a 76B? Who said he had to use #14, although the combination for 1 #14 with 1 #6 is there on the 76B nut? What about #12, would that be OK? #6 for a range? Not likely. Even so, the combinations are there.

http://www.idealindustries.com/media/pdfs/products/references/ideal_ul_listed_combinations.pdf

thanks for the wirenut post. that's a great reference.

 

[MrMark]

Of course I can, MrSmartyPants.

Your type is nothing new on these boards...

My type? I'm not the one posting every other post about how I am an electrician, with the chest thumping and "look at me, I'm an electrician" I know what I am talking about.

I post just based on my knowledge and experience without the meaningless puffery. People are free to evaluate my posts on the merits, as I do everyone else's posts.

For example, Charles in Georgia is not an electrician but his knowledge blows me away on code. I would put him up against any licensed person you could produce. That is just the way it goes.

 

[MrMark]

thanks for the wirenut post. that's a great reference.

You are welcome. I refer to that quite often, especially when weird combo's come up.

 

[79firebird]

there is a plug out there to convert it goes from the range plug to a single 110 plug its sold at most local places. canadin tire, home depot, rona etc carry it where i am

 

[MrMark]

Nice broad brush you're painting with

I know you are sensitive to that. I should have said "some" probably.

 

[cowboyjosh]

I would like to see you fish from one side of a basement with a finished ceiling to the other hitting all the preexisting holes.

Is this piped or romex? I'm assuming romex or similar. Just splice some 14's onto the 10's if you can't get the 10's on the outlet. Make sure you can get one of the current hots to reach the neutral bar, or you will have to splice in the panel which *****, but sometimes must be done.
Be careful in the panel!

Ben

No problems in allot of cases, you can go up into an attic and then back down again if the panels on the other side of the house. In finished basements without drop ceiling in many cases you can drop can fixtures to run wires. Theres not many places an experienced electrician cannot run Romex with some time and extreme patience and with very little drywall damage.

 

[boydgti]

I would just splice in the exciting box using a marrette to a recep with #14 wire. Then get a plaster ring that accepts the recep and then hook it up in the panel with a 15 amp breaker. Really simple job and if u decide to change back to 220 U have it there. Im an electrician and to tell u the truth home elect is the simplest wiring ppl can do, really there is never more then 3 wires and a ground lol.

 

[ToddyB]

Unless it is only a cooktop it is probably 8 gauge. Anyway, you can always oversize the conductors as long as all connectors are listed for the gauge being terminated.

 

[falconflyer04]

Wow! I don't want to take anyone side's here but the guy asked a simple question and you guys just filled the thread with worthless information trying to prove each other's point!

Grogan14 and MrMark; both of you have a good point...not worth fighting over it!
I've seen "professional electrician" do some jobs in my area that scared the **** outta me! Wanna see the clutter there is in my main panel in the new house!? I even found some switches and plugs with loose screws barely holding the wire....generator panel being hold by 1x3" on each side that are cracked all the way down to the screws!!!?? With all that in mind, I can see the point that MrMark is trying to prove...
On another note, I can also understand that someone that never touch electricity should not attempt to do any modification to his installation without proper basic training!

Please keep in mind that this forum is mostly for people that wants to learn new stuff and gather more ideas from anyone... your really not helping trying to just fight over who's right or not!


Oh and like everyone said... best way would be to splice the wire with a marrette to a #14 wire... don't forget to make the change in the main panel also!


****oops, a lot of replies before i had time to post this one... loll

 

[swaterbenny]

I'm not a professional I'm just an apprentice

No problems in allot of cases, you can go up into an attic and then back down again if the panels on the other side of the house. In finished basements without drop ceiling in many cases you can drop can fixtures to run wires. Theres not many places an experienced electrician cannot run Romex with some time and extreme patience and with very little drywall damage.

I was just thinking of a lot of houses I have been in. Example parents house is finished ceiling in garage with lights on exterior of drywall. Possible yes just very difficult. I was also trying to simplify the whole deal for someone who has possibly never fished a wall.

there is a plug out there to convert it goes from the range plug to a single 110 plug its sold at most local places. canadin tire, home depot, rona etc carry it where i am

Where does it get a neutral from?

Ben

 

[MrMark]

The neutral may very well be there. As long as there are three wires (even if it was a bare wire) the neutral could have been present, or could be made to be present. The old oven may have been 240/120 device and required a neutral. The OP did not say.

"Marrette" must be a Canadian thing, eh?

 

[falconflyer04]

Mr Mark--> Yep "marrete" must be canadian... Anyway, that's what Im talking about when I say marrette... http://www.tnb-canada.com/en/catalogues/online/comresconstruction/marrette.asp?model=331 That's only one of the many many models available!

How do you call it!?

 

[swaterbenny]

wire nut, scotchlock

 

[boydgti]

Think they call it "wire nuts" in the USA

 

[falconflyer04]

Yep... wire nut looks like it! Thanks swaterbenny and boydgti!

 

[bww_mnm]

OP back here ... i haven't seen the existing outlet or panel up close yet. Just pics.

She just bought the house, new construction. She has a glasstop range (cooktop + oven) w/ 220V input. I was guessing neutral is part of outlet today as 110V is usually needed for controls?

I'll post this weekend w/ the results.

 

[bww_mnm]

I would just splice in the exciting box using a marrette to a recep with #14 wire. Then get a plaster ring that accepts the recep and then hook it up in the panel with a 15 amp breaker. Really simple job and if u decide to change back to 220 U have it there. Im an electrician and to tell u the truth home elect is the simplest wiring ppl can do, really there is never more then 3 wires and a ground lol.

What's a plaster ring?
Also, if 8g or 10g, do i need to splice/wirenut to 14g in panel to use the 15A breaker or can I just go into 15A break w/ 8g or 10g wire?

Thanks,
Brad

 

[falconflyer04]

No need to splice to #14 in the panel! It's not even needed at the plug also but it's better because it will be easier to screw in the plug than #10 which the plug wasn't designed to accomodate....

 

[bww_mnm]

What's a plaster ring?
Also, if 8g or 10g, do i need to splice/wirenut to 14g in panel to use the 15A breaker or can I just go into 15A break w/ 8g or 10g wire?

Thanks,
Brad

Just googled and learned what a plaster ring is. I did plan on using this (outlet cover / wall plate), just hadn't heard plaster ring before.

 

[MrMark]

Plaster ring is something that you are not going to be able to mess with. Plaster ring is attached to a metal box to bring the box out to the finished surface. You will have no ability to change plaster rings, nor do you need to, for this job.

Just remove the 240/120 V receptical and put in your new one.

Cap off the unused phase wire. You are only going to use one hot leg and the neutral.

At the panel you don't need to splice anything. Just remove the 2 pole breaker and replace it with the single pole breaker. You will now have an open space in the panel. Buy a blank cover for the open space because the deadfront will have its KO removed. Or, just put another single pole breaker in the empty slot with nothing on it. Ask mrb if that is OK, I think it is.

The 10 gauge wire will go into the 15 amp breaker (or you should just use a 20 amp breaker).

 

[MrMark]

If this box is two gang, and it would be if I had done it, you will need to handle that too. Special cover plate will be needed.

Remember to shut down the main before you mess with the panel.

 

[falconflyer04]

The 10 gauge wire will go into the 15 amp breaker (or you should just use a 20 amp breaker).

If you plan on using a 20 amp breaker, you will have to use #12 wire for the splice at the plug instead of #14!

 

[MrMark]

If you plan on using a 20 amp breaker, you will have to use #12 wire for the splice at the plug instead of #14!

right on . . .

 

[bww_mnm]

Mark, Falcon, thanks a bunch.

I agree on the 12g for 20A. I'll need to look, but i don't believe 20A is needed.
Thanks for clarification on plaster ring. It's a double gang box, so I'll need a new "wall plate" to work with the "traditional 15A (or 20A) outlet" that I'll be installing. I know my terminology isn't helping the conversation much

 

[MrMark]

No, you have it right. Don't sweat it on the breaker. Either way is acceptable. If it were me, I would go straight to the 20 amp breaker without hesitation. I never would use a 15 amp anyway. If the 20 makes your life easier because it can take a bigger wire then go for it. Splices in a box may sometimes be necessary for rework I suppose, but they look like hell and should be a last resort.

 

[bww_mnm]

20A it'll be. Thanks again!