Opinions on these tools.

[TireTracks]

I took the entrance exam (passed with flying colors), got accepted to Perry tech( local trade school, going to do hvac) today. Planning on starting jan 2012, so i can save up some money to pay for it.


here are some of the tools were suppost to have, i'll be makeing these threads as i get farther down the list. Trying to stay mostly USA.

I'm planning on buying a good ammount of Cman Pro/standard for the basic tools I dont have ( or have better versions of).

I need a basic set of decent screwdrivers, stubby phillips and flat set,
P0-P2, 1/8" flat, 3/16x4", 1/4"x4,5/16'x6", 3/8x8". How good are Cman pro drivers.

How are Cman nut drivers, need atleast a 1/4" and 5/16". Are klines better?

Are the Cman allen drivers/keys good?, need a set of them 1/16 to 3/8".

How are the Cman Pro pliars, i need a 10" channellock type, 8" side cutters, 8" needelnose, a wirestripper and a wire crimper.

What is a "offset screwdriver kit", something like this?-

I also need a good flashlight, i'd like one that can be beat on for years and not break. I would just get a Maglite, but i keep hearing people talk about other brands.

Also who makes a really good toolbag?I like lots of pockets so things stay organzied.


thats most of the list of things that we are suppost to buy before we start, that i dont allready have. Probably will keep adding more tools to this thread as time goes on.

 

[tw33k2514]

These are offset screwdrivers http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000T9SH0M/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And I do not personally like craftsman pliers. They just do not hold up as well as Channellock in my opinion.

 

[Scout Driver]

Congrats on getting accepted!

I'm going to recommend spending a couple extra bucks on screwdrivers and get yourself a set of Williams. Find a good price on an assortment of Channellock pliers. You will be happy with them.

Scott

 

[sonnyboy]

For allen type hex-L keys, it's tough to beat Bondhus. I've got Bondhus, Eklind, and Allen brands, and Bondhus is by far my favorite. It is priced similar to Craftsman, but much better quality, strength, and durability. Make sure you get the "ball-end" type. You won't regret it.

I don't have much experience with C-man pliers, but I think Channellock is a pretty safe bet for bang for the buck on American made pliers. There might be better, but you will pay for it too.

 

[Scout Driver]

Bondhus or Allen on the allen keys.

Scott

 

[ptab01]

my two cents
northern sells a set of full tang screwdrivers though they are magnetic tip (depends on what you r working on - definitely not electronic controls for these puppies)
but standard duct work- and the more then occasional use as a prop or a pry - I think you'll be happy. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200318059_200318059
I agree on c-man pliers -not worth the investment -go channel lock or klein- the dollars r tough to put up at the start but they are durable- I have the same lineman pliers pushing 30 years now still doing the job

 

[Tavy]

Channel Lock pliers. If you got the pennies, Knipex are beautiful devices.

Craftsman nutdrivers are OK. I personally prefer my Xcelite screwdriver/nutdrivers over any other brand I've used. Nothin' beats the old school, simple, beat-it-with-a-hammer tools. Klein's are real nice too, always liked their comfort handles the best.

I also need a good flashlight, i'd like one that can be beat on for years and not break. I would just get a Maglite, but i keep hearing people talk about other brands.

Maglite's are sturdy and you can get spare parts to keep 'em ticking. I usually chew the hell out of the tailcaps til they don't even turn on from holding it in my mouth (no joke), but it's only about a $6 part.
SureFire's are nice but durn expensive. Plus they seem to die the same tail-cap-chomped death as the mag's and parts are harder to get.
If you can, Streamlight's are damn bright and holding up longer than my MagLite's have. The biggest plus is the rechargeable Stingers. About $150 though, so it's a pricey investment, plus you need to be smart about what you do with the charger..they go a while and stay bright but eventually she's gotta hit the charger. I have a piggy back fast-charger mounted in the shop and a regular charger in the service van. Gets by well enough. Have not personally tried an LED one yet...

CM allen keys get the job done... I have a ring of mixed Lisle and CMs I've put together in Metric and Standard and it's a cold day in hell when one of them twists bad enough to become unusable. Warranty it out and away we go.
You can get a pretty usable folding setup or t-handles if that's your taste.

Also who makes a really good toolbag?I like lots of pockets so things stay organzied.

Google yourself up a 'Bucket Boss.' Best damn 'toolbag' I ever had, and you can sit on it and fill it with parts too. Love the snot out of that thing.

 

[tkcaudill]

I recommend Streamlight's for flash lights even the little pin ones you can put in your shirt pocket are great I have a bigger on that you can recharge , i drop it all the time and it holds up very well , its just kinda pricie as all ready stated but i love them lots so bright

 

[dede2897234]

tiretracks,

I have owned a 52 piece mini-ratchet set for about 5 years. It is made by W.F.M.C in the USA. It is a high quality tool set. The included bits are very durable. The combined width of the bit when inserted into the stainless steel ratchet is less than 1". The Reed & Prince bit allowed me to removed a Phillips screw (with factory thread locker) holding the 3/8" chuck to my Craftsman Professional electric corded drill. I was upgrading the chuck to 1/2". I also used the P0 Phillips bit to remove 2 stuck screws on a computer printer's print head. I used a Wera and a Moody P0 driver with no luck.

I purchased the set from Techni-Tool. It still sells both the 52 piece ($75.50) and 44 piece ($71.50) sets. Here is the link: LINK.


As far as a durable flashlight, I would recommend the Streamlight Survivor LED. I have owned it for about 6 years. Here is a link to the flashlight: LINK. I purchased it at that time for around $50.00.

For a close quarters, magnetic flashlight with an extended, flexible neck; I would recommend the Streamlight Jr. Reach LED. Here is a link to the flashlight: LINK. I purchased it 4 to 5 years ago for around $35.00.


As far as tool bags, I would recommend the ones made by AWP. They are made overseas and available for purchase at Lowe's. I have owned one for about 8 years. It is an open tool bag that is similar to this one except for a central divider with pockets on both sides: LINK. The AWP tool bag is of higher quality than the linked one and has been very durable. I purchased it at that time for about $35.00.


Dave

 

[TireTracks]

These are offset screwdrivers http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000T9SH0M/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And I do not personally like craftsman pliers. They just do not hold up as well as Channellock in my opinion.

Ah, I've got a few of those allready,thanks.

Congrats on getting accepted!

I'm going to recommend spending a couple extra bucks on screwdrivers and get yourself a set of Williams. Find a good price on an assortment of Channellock pliers. You will be happy with them.

Scott

Thanks. I'm likeing the price i'm seeing for them. If i can find a local store that has them i'll probably get them. Though do they sell single screwdrivers, or larger sets? the 8 peice set excludes any p0, 1/8" flat, or stubbys.

tiretracks,

I own a 52 piece mini-ratchet set for about 5 years. It is made by W.F.M.C in the USA. It is a high quality tool set. The included bits are very durable. The combined width of the bit when inserted into the stainless steel ratchet is less than 1". The Reed & Prince bit allowed me to removed a Phillips screw (with factory thread locker) holding the 3/8" chuck to my Craftsman Professional electric corded drill. I was upgrading the chuck to 1/2". I also used the P0 Phillips bit to remove 2 stuck screws on a computer printer's print head. I used a Wera and a Moody P0 driver with no luck.

I purchased the set from Techni-Tool. It still sells both the 52 piece ($75.50) and 44 piece ($71.50) sets. Here is the link: LINK.


As far as a durable flashlight, I would recommend the Streamlight Survivor LED. I have owned it for about 6 years. Here is a link to the flashlight: LINK. I purchased it at that time for around $50.00.

For a close quarters, magnetic flashlight with an extended, flexible neck; I would recommend the Streamlight Jr. Reach LED. Here is a link to the flashlight: LINK. I purchased it 4 to 5 years ago for around $35.00.


As far as tool bags, I would recommend the ones made by AWP. They are made overseas and available for purchase at Lowe's. I have owned one for about 8 years. It is an open tool bag that is similar to this one except for a central divider with pockets on both sides: LINK. The AWP tool bag is of higher quality than the linked one and has been very durable. I purchased it at that time for about $35.00.


Dave

Thanks for the reccomendations. i'll thinnk about that set. looks nice. Have to see if it's in the budget. Lots of things i have to buy.

 

[jcfields]

I think the Klein cushion grip nutdrivers will work best for you; they're fairly comfortable, have full hollow shafts (the Craftsmans are partial), and most importantly, are the easiest to identify in a toolbag because they're clearly marked at the ends (the Craftsmans all look the same from above).

Gotta agree with Channellock for the pliers. I have a ton of Craftsman, Klein, and Channellock pliers, and the Channellocks are usually the best. Highly recommend the 8" dikes over the 7" (love the contour of the handle).

 

[Borrego]

If what I was told by a Sears employee last time I was in the tool department was correct, they are discontinuing the Professional line of Craftsman tools.
With plenty of time on your hands before your schooling begins, take the time to explore the various tool buying options available to you. No need to rush in assembling your tool set. Money saved buying tools now and in the near future help pay for school later.

 

[76ginseng]

For toolbag, try this http://www.vetopropac.com/ .

 

[TireTracks]

I think the Klein cushion grip nutdrivers will work best for you; they're fairly comfortable, have full hollow shafts (the Craftsmans are partial), and most importantly, are the easiest to identify in a toolbag because they're clearly marked at the ends (the Craftsmans all look the same from above).

Gotta agree with Channellock for the pliers. I have a ton of Craftsman, Klein, and Channellock pliers, and the Channellocks are usually the best. Highly recommend the 8" dikes over the 7" (love the contour of the handle).

Thanks for the info.

Wonder why they are like that.


What would you all reccomend for a wire crimper? I've never used one other than those cheap crappy ones that are a crimper/stripper.

 

[TireTracks]

If what I was told by a Sears employee last time I was in the tool department was correct, they are discontinuing the Professional line of Craftsman tools.

With plenty of time on your hands before your schooling begins, take the time to explore the various tool buying options available to you. No need to rush in assembling your tool set. Money saved buying tools now and in the near future help pay for school later.

That ***** if it's true. most of it seemed pretty decent.


Thats what i'm trying to do, bargain shop sence i'm not in a huge hurry.

I'm also hopeing for a scholarship. my ag teacher was asking a bunch of questions about were i was going and writeing it down.



on those toolbags. but those might have to wait.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

Thanks for the info.

Wonder why they are like that.


What would you all reccomend for a wire crimper? I've never used one other than those cheap crappy ones that are a crimper/stripper.

For a crimper, you just can't go wrong with the Thomas and Betts "Sta-Kon" type. Klein, Snapon and a few others make their own version of it as well now:

 

[Butters]

+1 on the set of Williams screwdrivers. I got them to replace my Craftsman Pros which self destructed easily. I know some have had better luck with them, but mine are awful.

I'm not a big fan of spending a lot of money on a flashlight - which is easy to do. Whatever you get, make sure you have a lot of extra flashlights (i.e. $5 LEDs) because you always need one. I keep an extra flashlight in all my toolbags and a headlamp in my main one and my cars.

I own several high dollar ones through work (~$90 Surefires). But my favorite is the Streamlight Scorpion (about $30) which works every bit as well as my Surefires and has a belt clip: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=XXE&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&q=scorpion+flashlight+belt+clip&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=3513997448374514936&sa=X&ei=GtWRTaaUG-jp0gHQveTMBw&ved=0CDAQ8wIwAg# The rubber will eventually wear out on the exterior if you use it everyday, but you can relegate it to the toolbox at that point. It also uses 123 batteries - which is good from a shelf life standpoint, but they are expensive.

I prefer bright incandescent light to LEDs for brief tasks. Longer term, I use an LED headlamp or droplight if feasible.

 

[TireTracks]

For a crimper, you just can't go wrong with the Thomas and Betts "Sta-Kon" type. Klein, Snapon and a few others make their own version of it as well now:

Thanks.

+1 on the set of Williams screwdrivers. I got them to replace my Craftsman Pros which self destructed easily. I know some have had better luck with them, but mine are awful.

I'm not a big fan of spending a lot of money on a flashlight - which is easy to do. Whatever you get, make sure you have a lot of extra flashlights (i.e. $5 LEDs) because you always need one. I keep an extra flashlight in all my toolbags and a headlamp in my main one and my cars.

I own several high dollar ones through work (~$90 Surefires). But my favorite is the Streamlight Scorpion (about $30) which works every bit as well as my Surefires and has a belt clip: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=XXE&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&q=scorpion+flashlight+belt+clip&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=3513997448374514936&sa=X&ei=GtWRTaaUG-jp0gHQveTMBw&ved=0CDAQ8wIwAg# The rubber will eventually wear out on the exterior if you use it everyday, but you can relegate it to the toolbox at that point. It also uses 123 batteries - which is good from a shelf life standpoint, but they are expensive.

I prefer bright incandescent light to LEDs for brief tasks. Longer term, I use an LED headlamp or droplight if feasible.

Thanks. Are Led's dimmer than the incans? I've been looking at getting a led light so that i wont have to carry a case of batterys with me.

 

[5lima30]

+1 on Bondhaus for hex heads and Channellocks. Kleins are also an electrical industry standard. On flashlights I am very partial to the Pelican and Surefire LEDs. They are VERY durable and should last a career. Good luck!

 

[HandyManny]

I took the entrance exam (passed with flying colors), got accepted to Perry tech( local trade school, going to do hvac) today. Planning on starting jan 2012, so i can save up some money to pay for it.


here are some of the tools were suppost to have, i'll be makeing these threads as i get farther down the list. Trying to stay mostly USA.

I'm planning on buying a good ammount of Cman Pro/standard for the basic tools I dont have ( or have better versions of).

I need a basic set of decent screwdrivers, stubby phillips and flat set,
P0-P2, 1/8" flat, 3/16x4", 1/4"x4,5/16'x6", 3/8x8". How good are Cman pro drivers.

How are Cman nut drivers, need atleast a 1/4" and 5/16". Are klines better?

Are the Cman allen drivers/keys good?, need a set of them 1/16 to 3/8".

How are the Cman Pro pliars, i need a 10" channellock type, 8" side cutters, 8" needelnose, a wirestripper and a wire crimper.

What is a "offset screwdriver kit", something like this?-

I also need a good flashlight, i'd like one that can be beat on for years and not break. I would just get a Maglite, but i keep hearing people talk about other brands.

Also who makes a really good toolbag?I like lots of pockets so things stay organzied.


thats most of the list of things that we are suppost to buy before we start, that i dont allready have. Probably will keep adding more tools to this thread as time goes on.

Screwdrivers - get Stanley 100 Plus.

Nutdrivers - Klien are good, also Husky USA and Cman's are okay. You can also get a Craftsman 1/4 inch drive Adapter handle and attach 1/4 drive sockets to it to serve as a versatile nutdriver.

Hex (allen driver) keys - get Bondhus brand.

Pliers - Accept no substitutes, get Channellock and Knipex all the way.

Flashlight - I've come to appreciate Maglite XL50 lately. Great light for the money. You'll probably also need a muti-position work light, Stanely makes a good one too.

Offset ratcheting screwdriver - various brands make good ones, consider one from Chapman Tool

 

[Scout Driver]

Here's a link to where I have bought Williams screwdrivers. Good prices and good people to deal with.

http://www.industrialsupplydenver.com/screwdrivers.html

Scott

 

[volpster31]

i would highly recommend this tool bag

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000DYVHS/?tag=atomicindus08-20

and in my opinion,klein nutdrivers are a must

 

[premierplayer]

Work hard, study hard, you can make it happen.
Luck doesn't do it.

tool bag, I've used something like these for years
http://cspoutdoors.com/canrigbag.html

6 in 1 screwdriver comes in real handy too, gives you a already in your hand 1/4 & 5/16 nut driver

I was a maglite guy for decades, in the last 2 years I've completely switched to LED disposables, as in the freebies at HF, or $4 for a two pack at the big box stores. I've got the darn things everywhere, and they're easy on batteries too.

Channellock pliers of all types are my mainstay at work and home.

Cman nutdrivers.
Cman screwdrivers, hey, they're consumables once you've got a helper.
I keep 2 sets of folding hex keys in my bag, loose ones are a mess.
T&B crimpers are the best I've used.

 

[Butters]

It isn't that LEDs are less bright - that just depends on the flashlights you are using. I think it is more an issue of the color of the light. However, the upside of many LEDs, especially the higher quality ones, is that they seem to have no dead spots in the light beam. I think this is because the light from the LEDs is generally just projected out from the LED as opposed to reflected with incandescents (not really sure though). They both provide good light, but my preference is definitely incandescent in terms of light (not in terms of heat and efficiency). So on my belt is a Scorpion which is great for assessing a situation with lots of bright light for a few minutes at a time. But when I am actually working on something, a LED headlamp frees up my hands and will last for hours (as opposed to probably two hours with 123 powered incandescents).

 

[Tavy]

What would you all reccomend for a wire crimper? I've never used one other than those cheap crappy ones that are a crimper/stripper.

Thomas & Betts makes top of the line stuff, but for a reason..they're hard to beat. Knipex & AMP also make quality crimpers. Feel free to browse that, but they're all pretty pricey from what I remember. Matco has a nice ratcheted set of crimpers that won't even mess up heatshrink connectors, picked 'em up for $80 -- regular non-insulated for $20 or so. They do a nice job.

 

[TireTracks]

Here's a link to where I have bought Williams screwdrivers. Good prices and good people to deal with.

http://www.industrialsupplydenver.com/screwdrivers.html

Scott

Thanks for the link.

 

[TireTracks]

i would highly recommend this tool bag

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000DYVHS/?tag=atomicindus08-20

and in my opinion,klein nutdrivers are a must

Thanks. I was looking at that bag last night. So many choises!

I'm hopeing to get another cupon for Ace hardware, just got one a few weeks ago for $10 off anything. Could get klien nutdrivers cheaper than Cmans with that.

 

[crewchief888]

probably be a good idea to have a "main" rechargable flashlight that stays in your bag most of the time, and cheap pocket size (throw away) AAA powered led lights.

i keep a small pencil sized led light around, sometimes you need both hands and a flashlight.
the cheapie HF models are not comfortable to hold between your teeth for very long.


dont see how you could go wrong with klien and channellock brands.

 

[TireTracks]

Work hard, study hard, you can make it happen.
Luck doesn't do it.

tool bag, I've used something like these for years
http://cspoutdoors.com/canrigbag.html

6 in 1 screwdriver comes in real handy too, gives you a already in your hand 1/4 & 5/16 nut driver

I was a maglite guy for decades, in the last 2 years I've completely switched to LED disposables, as in the freebies at HF, or $4 for a two pack at the big box stores. I've got the darn things everywhere, and they're easy on batteries too.

Channellock pliers of all types are my mainstay at work and home.

Cman nutdrivers.
Cman screwdrivers, hey, they're consumables once you've got a helper.
I keep 2 sets of folding hex keys in my bag, loose ones are a mess.
T&B crimpers are the best I've used.

Thanks.


I thought about those little led's, but i havent seen them for sale around here at a decent price.Ace wanted $8 a peice for them.

How do those bags hold up? I assume they have a big pocket in the middle?

 

[TireTracks]

probably be a good idea to have a "main" rechargable flashlight that stays in your bag most of the time, and cheap pocket size (throw away) AAA powered led lights.

i keep a small pencil sized led light around, sometimes you need both hands and a flashlight.
the cheapie HF models are not comfortable to hold between your teeth for very long.


dont see how you could go wrong with klien and channellock brands.

Do rechargable AA's last well? I just remembered i have a little maglite rideing around in my truck.

 

[Skin]

Williams hard handles [hard handles in general] are uncomfortable junk.

Get a ratcheting screwdriver and a set of bits. Save yourself a lot of space and hand pain.

 

[crewchief888]

Do rechargable AA's last well? I just remembered i have a little maglite rideing around in my truck.

ive never had much good luck with rechargable batteries. seems when i have time to recharge them, they aint dead, and their dead when i need them most.

AA & AAA led lights seem to last the longest for me i just keep a spare pack of battereis in the truck with me.

my flashlight is probably my most used tool, i'd say i average 3 or 4 battery changes a year.

 

[Tavy]

I had issues with some flashlights not liking rechargeable. They're a little dimmer since they have a lower discharge, but all in all it's a pretty cheap way to get around buying new ones at least. Saves a good penny in the long term.

 

[Danglerb]

Get Enerloops (something like that, Sanyo I think) for the rechargeable AA.

Why not take an online class right now, get your freon license and actually work in the HVAC industry all summer and make some money?

Also visit this forum, its FULL of HVAC pro's. http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/

 

[Gregg33]

Nut Drivers- Klein, nice feel, look great, made in USA, hollow shaft

Flashlight- Maglite, I got a free AAA baby one., has bailed me out many times over the years, great quality, made in USA, parts readily available, plus you can pretend your a cop and beat some1 with it!

Pliers- Channellock, great quality, made in the USA, readily available

Allen Keys- Snap On or any high end made in USA, don't get cheapos. Trust me stripping a Allen head screw especially if it's recessed is a nightmare. I'd say getting good quality Allen keys is probably more important than any other tool. The cheap ones fit looser (more likely to strip) and round off and twist easier.

 

[shampoop]

Most people using their tools for a living will tell you they hate craftsman ratchets. I like my combination of snapon and harbor freight composite ratchets. As for pliers and similar tools, channellock is better than craftsman and iirc is either around the same price or less.

Allen keys and torx bits, i don't mess around with those, very high probability of being stripped out, I only use Snapon.

Flashlights, streamlight for sure. They are great and tend to be literally indestructable unless you're using some sort of tool to break it on purpose. Great value as well

 

[TireTracks]

Get Enerloops (something like that, Sanyo I think) for the rechargeable AA.

Why not take an online class right now, get your freon license and actually work in the HVAC industry all summer and make some money?

Also visit this forum, its FULL of HVAC pro's. http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/

I'll check it out. Thanks.

I dunno if anyone would even look twice at me because of the school being local.
Why would they want me when there are people who allready know something about it.

 

[Shipfittin]

I own several high dollar ones through work (~$90 Surefires). But my favorite is the Streamlight Scorpion (about $30) which works every bit as well as my Surefires and has a belt clip: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=XXE&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&q=scorpion+flashlight+belt+clip&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=3513997448374514936&sa=X&ei=GtWRTaaUG-jp0gHQveTMBw&ved=0CDAQ8wIwAg# The rubber will eventually wear out on the exterior if you use it everyday, but you can relegate it to the toolbox at that point. It also uses 123 batteries - which is good from a shelf life standpoint, but they are expensive.

I have that same exact flashlight, got mine at Bass Pro Shops a couple years ago. It is a mad mother, you can't beat it for around $30. I always keep a good flash light on me when I am working on a ship. There is nothing like being inside of a ship when the power goes out. It doesn't get any darker then the insider of a steel hull, lol.

Have to agree with the Channel Locks pliers, you can't go wrong there. If you buy a set of Vice Grips, get a set of real ones. Don't fall for those el cheapos that don't do much other then eat up their own teeth.

Definitely go with those Williams screwdrivers, you can not go wrong there at all. I have some at work and they are amazing.

When you get a set of Hex Keys, get as many sizes as you can. You will be amazed how many different sizes you will probably end up needing.

Those ratcheting offset screwdrivers do come in handy when working in a tight spot. I actually always find them extremely useful when installing speakers in cars.

I know that your trying to avoid cheap tools but I really do like the wobble extensions that Harbor Freight has. You can get a 9 piece set for about $12 right now. I paid like $9 for a set at HF a couple weeks ago, but they have knurling on them. They work great for getting into some odd spots.

 

[TireTracks]

Nut Drivers- Klein, nice feel, look great, made in USA, hollow shaft

Flashlight- Maglite, I got a free AAA baby one., has bailed me out many times over the years, great quality, made in USA, parts readily available, plus you can pretend your a cop and beat some1 with it!

Pliers- Channellock, great quality, made in the USA, readily available

Allen Keys- Snap On or any high end made in USA, don't get cheapos. Trust me stripping a Allen head screw especially if it's recessed is a nightmare. I'd say getting good quality Allen keys is probably more important than any other tool. The cheap ones fit looser (more likely to strip) and round off and twist easier.

Thanks.

How are Elkind allen keys?

 

[Shipfittin]

Why would they want me when there are people who already know something about it.

Never hurts to try, and getting on part time as a helper would probably give you a lot of first hand knowledge. Obviously I don't know how much you know about the HVAC trade but I know when I started my apprenticeship I didn't know to much about Shipfitting. Well we started out in the classroom, learning different things. Nothing really made much sense into we actually started working with a journeyman and then it's like a light bulb went off.