Will This Shop Layout Work?

[robertwhite]

UPDATE IN POST #26..... PLEASE READ


So the time has come to start moving stuff into the new shop (pics to follow) and I need some input on the layout that I think I will use to see if it works.

Specs:
Shop = 88ft Long x 24ft Wide
Overhead Door = 144" Wide x 122" High
Lift = 144" outside of posts
Workbenches (WB) = 96" Wide x 24" Deep each
Cabinet = 96" Wide x 36" Deep
Toolbox = 42" Wide x 36" Deep each
Assorted welders, carts, etc.
Compressor will be in another room

The lift will be centered on the door (both 12ft) and centered on the 24' width of the shop. Lift posts will be 15ft from the door. I left an additional 15ft in the front side of the posts to allow for vehicle and walk around space.

With the lift, benches, etc. in place, and the welders and stuff on the far wall, it leaves me with a 31ft x 24 ft work area for vehicle restoration, etc. That is almost 16ft wide for each of 2 cars to allow for wide open doors.

The only thing that I don't know if it will work is the turn in area after the benches/boxes. I only have 24ft to begin with and while the 1st vehicle (closest to end wall) is not a problem, once that vehicle is in place I can no longer take a full swing after the benches. I will basically have a 19ft swing area in between the benches/boxes and whatever is left with the other car there. I do have plenty of wheel dollies so I could always put the vehicle on dollies and swing it around, but I do not want to unless absolutely needed.

The only constant in this is the GIANT storage wall cabinet (8ft wide x 7ft high and WAY heavy), so once it is in place, it stays put.

ANY thoughts, good or bad on this design would be much appreciated.

 

[Stick]

Why not put another roll up door as another entry to the restoration area either on the side of the shop with the toolboxes, or the side with the workbenches? Even if it's just a 84"x96" door, it makes the shop quite a bit more flexible for use. As an added bonus, you wouldn't have to worry about having enough room to turn a vehicle into that space.

 

[Marshall2u]

Based on what you posted, I would say that only you can make this decision. It's personal. Unless you have unlimited funds (and even then it's not always the case), all shops have some trade-offs, or "I wish I would-a's." My suggestion is that you REALLY think about what you will doing most in the shop (or what is most important) and lay it out to best cover that, but leaving just enough flexibility to accommodate everything else, in order of importance. I have a 30x58 shop with 12' wide doors on both narrow ends. I am battling the importance of the second door, as keeping the path through the middle is really changing how I would do it if that second door wasn't there. I will probably rarely use it, other than for light, but, yet, I WILL use it SOMETIMES. Again, it comes down to personal preference, and how you will be using your space.

 

[bazzateer]

I'd put the stove at the other end near the resto' area as this is likely to be where you spend a lot of time, that or put it more central. Also, having it near the door will see a lot of heat go straight out.

 

[stingry]

Personally I don't like the idea of the lift in front of the door. You have a 12' wide door but the width of the lift limits what you can drive thru it to access the rest of the shop. I would either add another door or move the lift deeper into the shop and offset it to one side. If the restoration work you are talking about is on cars, you may find that you may have one on the lift for an extended time and this would limit access to the rest of the shop by blocking the door.

Cheers
Steve

 

[wolflrv]

+1 on trying to add an additional door in the resto area, if possible. A buddy of mine has a shotgun shop with lift at the door like yours and usually has 2 cars in the back end(your resto area). I dunno how many times I've been out there and I'm just in time to help roll out the car currently on the lift (because it's non-operative at the time), so another car can come out of the back area. Usually it's his race car and it's track night, but it's still a pain and he's still working on a solution to the problem, due to fence and property limitations.

I'd also +1 on moving the wood stove as well. His is mid shop and he still loses a lot of heat, if the door gets opened at all. Having it to the back would at least keep some of the heat, if you do a quick in and out and close the door.

 

[robertwhite]

Why not put another roll up door as another entry to the restoration area

I'd put the stove at the other end near the resto' area as this is likely to be where you spend a lot of time, that or put it more central. Also, having it near the door will see a lot of heat go straight out.

Personally I don't like the idea of the lift in front of the door. You have a 12' wide door but the width of the lift limits what you can drive thru it to access the rest of the shop. I would either add another door or move the lift deeper into the shop and offset it to one side.

I'd also +1 on moving the wood stove as well. His is mid shop and he still loses a lot of heat, if the door gets opened at all. Having it to the back would at least keep some of the heat, if you do a quick in and out and close the door.

Forgive my brain fart guys.

I failed to mention a very important fact. I can NOT put a roll up door at the other end of the shop. There is a 4 ft drop off on the other side of the end wall. It also goes into one of my cattle pastures, so even if I could do a door, in the winter and spring it would be non useable due to mud. This shop is attached to my barn.

I also forgot my 2 walk through doors which are 36" each.

I have corrected the layout and posted it.

The lift can not be off set as that ruins the ability to just drive/push anything right through the lift which is the same width as the door. If it fits through the door, it will fit through the lift (most likely BendPak 10 ton). I know all about the "dead car on the lift" scenario, and hopefully that only occurs once in a blue moon.

As for the wood stove, I hear what you guys are saying and I agree to a point, But, the reason I will put the stove near the lift is so that when working in that area it will keep me warm. I plan on putting one in the opposite corner at the other end. Putting it in the middle of a wall would do no good as it will then only blow to the middle of the shop. Hopefully I can get a cross draft this way.

The biggest problem with the heat is that the shop is uninsulated and without spending a huge amount of money, it is going to be that way. We are talking about 12' 6" on the right wall, 15' on the left wall, open rafters, and so on. BIG money to insulate. The good thing is that the metal roof collects so much heat it warms up the interior. The summer is going to ****, but I will have to figure that out later.

 

[mad57]

If there is no way to put in another garage door on the other end by welder than i would say move the lift to the back closer to the welding area, right now i have my 2 post tyed up with a car on it with no front tires awaiting parts from rock auto, not a big deal for me as i have 7 doors, but for you god for bid you need to get into your shop to do something if you have a (dead project) on the lift your beat or you just added more work on to your day. I know you said it rarely happens but if it does its a P.I.T.A

 

[ibedayank]

you could take and build a small toolroom/workshop in the back that is heated for the smaller bench jobs. and keeping tools rust free

 

[robertwhite]

If there is no way to put in another garage door on the other end by welder than i would say move the lift to the back closer to the welding area, right now i have my 2 post tyed up with a car on it with no front tires awaiting parts from rock auto,

I absolutely hear ya', but here is my logic (or lack thereof). If I was to move the lift to the back, the front then becomes the "dead car" area as it will be project cars, tractors,etc. I would the have to move out any "dead car" just to get to the lift. With the lift in the front, it both allows easy access and keeps me motivated to get whatever is on the lift, off the lift.

 

[robertwhite]

you could take and build a small toolroom/workshop in the back that is heated for the smaller bench jobs. and keeping tools rust free

I have another room in the barn that will be the "dirty jobs" area. It also is unheated though. IF I see a moisture problem on my tools in the future, I will wrap my tool boxes with something to keep them warmer. I have some tools in the small room now and have not had a problem. My tool boxes are now in an unheated/uninsulated garage now and I have not had any problems either. I am in SW TN and while it gets cold, it is not Maine or Vermont.

 

[dirttracker18]

The moisture issue happens when you have an unheated shop and you heat it, then let it cool again, then heat it, etc.

It ***** but if you consitently heat the area (cost, insulation, etc) then you are SOL.

However, being in TN, I would take your COLD days over mine anytime

I would guess on your cold days I would only need a light coat to be comfortable

 

[ibedayank]

I have another room in the barn that will be the "dirty jobs" area. It also is unheated though. IF I see a moisture problem on my tools in the future, I will wrap my tool boxes with something to keep them warmer. I have some tools in the small room now and have not had a problem. My tool boxes are now in an unheated/uninsulated garage now and I have not had any problems either. I am in SW TN and while it gets cold, it is not Maine or Vermont.

so its YOU that sent me the rain that just got here...thanks..

lots of TN folks climbing out of the woodwork lately
welcome hopefully this site does not drain your wallet like it has already done to mine..

 

[ibedayank]

Dirt Tracker
I have not worn my starter jacket or winter boot since I moved here 4 years ago
From dullloot minisnowda You can't even buy a snowshovel down here...

 

[robertwhite]

The moisture issue happens when you have an unheated shop and you heat it, then let it cool again, then heat it, etc.

It ***** but if you consitently heat the area (cost, insulation, etc) then you are SOL.

However, being in TN, I would take your COLD days over mine anytime

I would guess on your cold days I would only need a light coat to be comfortable

Well, I don't see the wood stove really heating it up past 50* or so with all the sq ft (2100+), the high ceiling and zero insulation, so I guess rust won't be an issue. I am thinking the stove will just take the chill out. We shall see.

As for the cold itself, I have never had more than a wool hat and a thermal sweatshirt on since I came down here. The only problem is that my place sits on about the highest spot around and it is in the middle of several hundred acres of cropland. Wind is the huge factor where I am and the cold is a very different cold than up North (NY). It is a bone chilling cold down here due to the moisture off the river which is less than a mile as the crow flies. And yes, I would easily keep the bone chilling cold in trade for the 5 months of cold and snow. I am way beyond done with that.

 

[bigbubba]

Forgive my brain fart guys.

I failed to mention a very important fact. I can NOT put a roll up door at the other end of the shop. There is a 4 ft drop off on the other side of the end wall. It also goes into one of my cattle pastures, so even if I could do a door, in the winter and spring it would be non useable due to mud. This shop is attached to my barn.

I also forgot my 2 walk through doors which are 36" each.

I have corrected the layout and posted it.

The lift can not be off set as that ruins the ability to just drive/push anything right through the lift which is the same width as the door. If it fits through the door, it will fit through the lift (most likely BendPak 10 ton). I know all about the "dead car on the lift" scenario, and hopefully that only occurs once in a blue moon.



.[/QUOTE]

Any chance of moving your workbenches down and putting a door on the side right in front of your lift?Could be a fairly wide door so you could go in at an angle.

 

[kwb]

The dimensions are a big limiting factor.

Can you add a door to the 88' side? I know 24' is shallow but if a lift is a must I would put it 90 to the length and position so you could get around it with arms folded in but it would be a tight point.

Otherwise I would be doing either in floor or scissor lift not a chance in hell that I would block the door with the posts.

That said I am not really a restore/car mod guy. I have a variety of toys that I move in and out (boats, trailers, snowmobiles, snowmobile trailers) so posts are almost against my religion.

 

[stingry]

[/QUOTE]
The lift can not be off set as that ruins the ability to just drive/push anything right through the lift which is the same width as the door. If it fits through the door, it will fit through the lift (most likely BendPak 10 ton). I know all about the "dead car on the lift" scenario, and hopefully that only occurs once in a blue moon.[/QUOTE]

Did some checking on the Bendpak site and they do not make a ten ton lift, so I am assuming that you mean a 10,000# lift. 18,000# (9 ton) is the largest that they list. Anyway, whichever one you use, the max "drive thru" clearance is 106", which really limits what you can drive between the posts and defeats the purpose of the 12' door.

Cheers
Steve

 

[robertwhite]

Any chance of moving your workbenches down and putting a door on the side right in front of your lift?Could be a fairly wide door so you could go in at an angle.

Can't put a door on the side wall either. Shop sits about 10ft from the property line/fence line.

 

[bobadame]

I'd put the lift in the center of the building. This would give you enough room to bring another car in if you ever need to. Also, having the lift that close to the door might limit the size of machinery you can bring in.

 

[robertwhite]

Did some checking on the Bendpak site and they do not make a ten ton lift, so I am assuming that you mean a 10,000# lift. 18,000# (9 ton) is the largest that they list. Anyway, whichever one you use, the max "drive thru" clearance is 106", which really limits what you can drive between the posts and defeats the purpose of the 12' door.

Cheers
Steve

Yes, I did mean to write 10K.

I will have to look again, but I know that the outside post measurement is 144" which makes that 109" seem pretty odd. If each post is say 12" wide, that is still only fix 120" or 10ft. I need to check the post dimensions again as even 12" seems high.

I could always go with a different brand or a wider drive through lift. In any event, I don't see anything wider than 10ft (or a car lane width) coming through my door. Heck, my Super Duty isn't even 10ft wide with the mirrors extended.

 

[stingry]

Yes, I did mean to write 10K.

I will have to look again, but I know that the outside post measurement is 144" which makes that 109" seem pretty odd. If each post is say 12" wide, that is still only fix 120" or 10ft. I need to check the post dimensions again as even 12" seems high.

I could always go with a different brand or a wider drive through lift. In any event, I don't see anything wider than 10ft (or a car lane width) coming through my door. Heck, my Super Duty isn't even 10ft wide with the mirrors extended.

I think they are counting the lift arms being down. I suppose you could lift them up before driving thru. If you can read "between the lines", it obvious that I do not like the concept of the lift being the "gate" to the rest of the shop area, which is quite large. Being long and narrow does complicate things, does it not?? Good luck with your layout.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Stick]

Forgive my brain fart guys.

I failed to mention a very important fact. I can NOT put a roll up door at the other end of the shop. There is a 4 ft drop off on the other side of the end wall. It also goes into one of my cattle pastures, so even if I could do a door, in the winter and spring it would be non useable due to mud. This shop is attached to my barn.

I wasn't talking about adding another shop door on the end, but rather the side like so:



If you position it right, you should still be able to get two vehicles in and out on the "restoration" end of the shop, even if the lift is *******.

 

[robertwhite]

I wasn't talking about adding another shop door on the end, but rather the side like so:



If you position it right, you should still be able to get two vehicles in and out on the "restoration" end of the shop, even if the lift is *******.

I would love to do that but the right side wall is about 10' from the property / fence line. It is also 4ft higher than ground level which would need about a 12ft ramp plus vehicle length.

Left side is the barn.

No can do.

 

[bigbubba]

I would love to do that but the right side wall is about 10' from the property / fence line. It is also 4ft higher than ground level which would need about a 12ft ramp plus vehicle length.

Left side is the barn.

No can do.

How is the barn set up? any chance you have an open center with stalls on each side? Maybe you could take out a stall or two and sneak cars into the resto shop that way?Pic's would help alot.

 

[robertwhite]

**** REVISED PLAN - PLEASE READ ****

OK, you guys got me thinking,measuring and making phone calls.

When I laid out the plan in real size with wood blocks and then got on a ladder and looked down, it definitely appears that the lift in the front half of shop is not going to work good enough.

I then searched some lift retailers and gave Greg Smith a call. Their PV-10 (10K capacity) has both symmetrical and asymmetrical ability and has a much smaller footprint than the Bendpak lift. That allowed me to still use my F250 SD Long Bed as a model and move the lift to the far left side. I allowed almost 4ft for walk around on the driver side.

When it is all laid out, I will have the work area in the front right side and still have a lane open on the left to get to the lift AND keep a vehicle that runs (so I can pull it out to use the lift) in that lane when needed.

I will lose the lift area I had planned on and poured to a depth of 10-12", but Greg Smiths said they only require 4" of concrete @ 3000psi. My mix was 4000psi with full fiber and poured to 4" so I should be fine. They also require only 6" from a cut joint and I will allow a minimum of 36". Again, I lose the original spacing (4-5ft), but this should also be fine. If after using the lift, I start to get a concrete issue, I could always cut out a section, dig out the sand/rock base and pour it deeper.

Please let me know what you think of this new layout.

NOTE: You will notice in the drawing that the F250 looks gigantic. That is because I used the dimensions WITH the doors open on both sides as that will be a factor when working on whatever inside things need work. It also is about the biggest vehicle I will ever have in the shop at almost 14ft wide.

 

[Strouty]

I guess I did not see page two, I like that redesign much better, but you may want to center the lift, it makes workspace on both sides versus just one. I have mine centered and it is pretty nice to be able to have a toolbox on one side and still be able to work.

Question:

What are you trying to drive through the lift? Some of the lifts are pretty narrow, you usually have to get into a 15k to get wide enough to fit semi trucks or big tractors. I ended up loosing a bay when I installed a lift, nothing with dual wheels would fit through, then if you had wide mirrors like on medium duty and bigger trucks, you couldn't even nose in without removing the mirrors. I would go as wide as you can with the shop, try and find a way to make it wider. Then I would move the lift to the middle no matter how painful it is.

 

[bobadame]

Makes more sense to me especially if you put the project cars on dollies.

 

[mad57]

That new lay out looks nice, im pretty sure down the road youll be glad you didnt block the main door with a "temp" disabled car on the lift, remember murphys law as far as the concrete and the lift dont sweat it...i installed my 2 post open top floor plate in my concrete which is 4500lbs mix and fiber mesh no rebar and directly over my control cuts and so far knock on wood no issues. enjoy the new place fill it up.

 

[robertwhite]

Question:

What are you trying to drive through the lift? when I installed a lift, nothing with dual wheels would fit through, then if you had wide mirrors like on medium duty and bigger trucks, you couldn't even nose in without removing the mirrors.

Biggest thing I will put on is my F250 SD (or maybe a duallie). Either will easily fit between the posts of the PV-10 which is 110" (9ft 2in). A new model Super Duty is less than 8.5 ft wide with the tow mirrors in normal position (body is just over 6ft), plus they fold in at the touch of a button. A dual wheel will not need to be driven through. Either will only go in to the rear edge of the front doors anyway, which is pretty much COG. Take a look on the Greg Smith website. They have a video showing the PV-10 lifting both single and dual wheel pick up trucks.

 

[Nighttrain]

I am kinda in the same boat. I have a 40x60 but have only a 14 door on one side then an office etc taking up 16' of the 40' width. This gives me a 24'x 60' work space. I plan on putting in a four post lift but will not be attaching it to the floor. I will move it as needed. I thought about putting it at the door but feel it will be in the way. I expect it will end up in the middle section of the garage as the back part will be used for work benches and long term projects.

 

[stingry]

I think you will be much happier with the revised layout, I like it!!!


Cheers
Steve