Dealing with neighborhood covenants

[Geo's66]

My problem is our home owners association says no detached structures. The way our home sits I want to build a garage/pool house separately. It would be done with class but I have a few neighbors already shooting idea down.. How have people dealt with this and what kinds of problems could I face if I ignore them and move forward? Most won't live here in 10 years anyway... Thanks

 

[purplezr2]

shoot the neighbors?

Just kidding, I have no idea, but I know I will never live somewhere where I can not walk to the mailbox in my underwear.

 

[Ray-CA]

Are you dealing with written CC&R's? or just some "unwritten agreement" type rules? If they are written and accepted CC&R's you will have more difficulties (and should have been provided with a copy prior to buying the house.) If these covenants are just "Well, we've all agreed not to build separate structures in the neighborhood" then I would think that, even though you might get some grief from the neighbors, you would be within your rights to build a non-attached garage. Be prepared for a fight with City Hall because some of the neighbors will protest the project, but as long as you follow your Cities and/or Counties codes you, I think, would be okay.

Good luck,

Ray

 

[NCMUSTANG]

build a brick wall (FENCE) and connect the two. no longer detached

 

[Murphy4570]

Riddle me this: What is a man who tries to tell another man what he can do with his private property?



The entire philosophy and theory of HOA's piss me off to no end. No man will tell me what I can and cannot do on my land.

 

[Motofixxer]

Or connect the roofs with a fancy framework of some sort. Also then considered attached.

 

[SGKent]

get a copy AND READ the CCR's. You agreed to them when you signed the contract. They will tell you what you can and cannot do.

 

[dankicksass]

1. Become President of HOA.
2. Dissolve HOA.

Problem solved.

 

[mmhouse]

In all likelihood one of the reasons you bought into a neighborhood with covenants was because you liked what they've done for its appearance. Maybe the best approach would be to figure out a way to work within them.

If as you say you want to do the build "with class" you may very well be able to work something out with your architectural committee. You might start with an informal conversation to feel out what might be considered 'attached' and what wouldn't be and how strictly the covenants are enforced. Tread lightly so as not to get anyone's defenses up. Hopefully this will give you some ideas of ways to proceed.

Working with the HOA will give you a much better chance of succeeding than butting heads with them. You'll likely need to be flexible and hope they will reciprocate.

 

[mmhouse]

1. Become President of HOA.
2. Dissolve HOA.

Problem solved.

Typically that would require a vote of a majority (perhaps a large majority) of the homeowners, and typically most would want to keep it not dissolve it.

 

[Rixter58]

Bang their......oh, forget it.






Hell, my shop is almost done. Ban me if it makes you feel better.

 

[SGKent]

Typically that would require a vote of a majority (perhaps a large majority) of the homeowners, and typically most would want to keep it not dissolve it.

And probably a signature of the representative for the builder / subdivider who implemented it along with signatures of all the lenders with mortgages on the properties....

 

[bajones238]

Or connect the roofs with a fancy framework of some sort. Also then considered attached.

I had to do something similar. Though I don't live in a HOA development, the county inspector insisted on the two structures being attached since the garage is bigger than the house (2500 vs. 1600 SF). So, I build a covered walkway connecting the house and garage. It added expense to the project, but not too much. Something like this may satisfy your HOA if done "artistically".

 

[StevePgh]

Working with the HOA will give you a much better chance of succeeding than butting heads with them. You'll likely need to be flexible and hope they will reciprocate.

Really, that is the key. I am on the board of my HOA (founded in the 70's), merely to be a voice of reason in case it is necessary to have one. Our codified restrictions are not all that restrictive compared to most modern HOAs, and that leaves a lot of latitude to the board. Sometimes that is good, other times not. For instance, we can't stop someone from parking in the middle of their grass covered front yard, but we can fine you if your trash cans are visible 2 days after collection.

Bear in mind that all levels of government restrict the power (or allow the existence of) the HOA. If you really wish to challenge them on anything you need to start at the laws on the federal level, state, county, then municipality to make sure the HOA is not overextending their authority. There are lots of case law examples out there as well. Geo's66 does not have a home state listed, but if it is PA I can help out with the state references. Some (if not most) HOA boards have no idea their power is limited at all, an example of that are restrictions on antennas, covered by federal rule.

Also, never underestimate the level of apathy among homeowners. In our HOA, people just don't vote in enough numbers to have the issue at hand have a vote that counts. We typically need to do two mailings just to get enough votes to have a board member elected, and that requires less of a % of owner votes than a bylaw or covenant change.

Good luck.

 

[Gary S]

Think seriously abour moving. Living your life in a commie development doesn't make much sense.

 

[Chief Geek]

I have mixed feelings about HOA neighborhoods. I do not like being limited to what I can do to my property, but on the same note, and a hypocritical one at that, I do not like the idea of the neighbor having 3 cars on blocks being worked on in the yard for months if not years and having more of a field then a properly maintained lawn. So long as the rules stay simple and use common sense, then I feel as they do more good then bad. But i have heard plenty of horror stories of them doing terrible things to families going through a crisis. Instead of being a community and lending a hand, they will stack fines up and make life even worse for people. When things like this happen, I think people need to be put in a good old fashion public tar and feathering...then a public beating.

With all that said, our HOA is a very reasonable one that allows us to have just about anything considered and overall it works out to be a good balance of keeping things looking good and keeping people happy. But we are a close community that get together to stain the fences and plant the landscaping as a community a couple times a year.

 

[nehog]

Start by listing the property for sale...

When the neighbors ask why, tell them exactly why (be nice.)

It may be that they will realize that they would rather deal with he devil they know than the devil they don't know!

And if that doesn't happen, sell and move to a place without an HOA!

Bottom line is that you will not get things to change. Once you were to sell the idea to the neighbors and get them on your side, the HOA will have only one choice and that will be to deny your request! Why? Because it will set a precedent that can possibly be used in the future against them, so they will (have to) fight any attempt to bend or change the rules.

 

[uppster]

HOA's do serve a purpose to keep nice neighborhoods nice. What you want to do sounds great to us members of the journal but some folks don't want to have their home next to a garage, where lots of loud noises will occur. It personally would not bother me. But flippin the coin I sure don't want a bunch of those small 8x10 metal sheds that the doors fall of off and rust in a year. Let us know how it works out.

 

[dtep]

I am about to start a build in a neighborhood with the same restriction against detached "structures". My solution is to place the 26'x36' building at the end of my driveway with the front of the "structure" even with the back edge of the house. The front of the garage will actually extend about six feet behind the house leaving the single 16 foot door offset from the roof peak. (Hope it doesn't look too goofy but I didn't make the rule.) The building will require that part of the deck behind the house be removed but the rest will serve as the floor of an outdoor living area that will be created by a roof that joins up to the roof of the house and the garage on two adjacent sides. A few nice looking posts to support the rest of the roof and I'll end up with a place to grill under cover, watch ball games and drink beer with my wife and neighbors. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I'm also getting a garage out of the deal!

 

[denis4x4]

As a point of reference, some city/county building departments will not even talk about giving you a building permit unless you have a HOA sign off on the project.

 

[mtwaterguy]

My problem is our home owners association says no detached structures. The way our home sits I want to build a garage/pool house separately. It would be done with class but I have a few neighbors already shooting idea down.. How have people dealt with this and what kinds of problems could I face if I ignore them and move forward? Most won't live here in 10 years anyway... Thanks

It's always amazing and somewhat irritating to me when these situations come up. Why would anyone think that they should be able to purchase in an established community that has existing HOA's and then try and go against the rules? Sounds like this will just be the start of a long, confrontational relationship. Why not just move and make things easier on everyone involved?

 

[DIYKiah]

An HOA can really tie your hands on a lot of issues. A guy that I work with was the head of his HOA for a while and says he despised it because everyone in the community/development hated him!

What they say usually goes and there is no way around it a majority of the time.... The good thing about HOA's is that they will help keep the property value of all of the homes up due to the fact that it keeps everything uniform and up to date.

I know my brother had a time with his HOA just because he wanted to put a little garden shed in his backyard and they would not give in on it and let him.... And his backyard had hedges around the fence and you couldn't even look inside of it to even see a shed!

I understand why the HOA is there and what they do, but it seems like some of the rules and regulations they have sometimes are a little much.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

My problem is our home owners association says no detached structures. The way our home sits I want to build a garage/pool house separately. It would be done with class but I have a few neighbors already shooting idea down.. How have people dealt with this and what kinds of problems could I face if I ignore them and move forward? Most won't live here in 10 years anyway... Thanks

First things first. Your title said "neighborhood covenants" and then you are talking about a HOA.

Which is it? Covenants are on the deed to your property and are VERY difficult to change. An example would be those in my subdivision where the only covenants concern the minimum size of the house, the roof has to have architectural shingles (or metal) and be at least a 7/12 pitch and the garage doors must open to the side of the house. Oh yeah, forgot the other one, no farm animals except for horses if your lot size is over 5 acres....

A home owner association on the other hand can create a lot of heartache with stupid "rules" that can be changes by a majority of the homeowners. They are usually run by some old biddy with nothing else left to do than to make life miserable for other homeowners

 

[Tarheelgarage]

time to move

 

[Bender78]

^^^^^
This.

We have one covenant in my neighborhood. You stay the fu*k out of my business, and I'll stay out of yours. It's been working great for almost 30 years now.

 

[The Wizard]

Think seriously about moving. Living your life in a commie development doesn't make much sense.

This.

I lived in a HOA community and was constantly getting bs fines and letters. I moved into a non-HOA 7 years ago and couldn't be happier.

 

[admranger]

Here in Vegas, if you build it w/o HOA approval, they can (and likely will) have you tear it down at your expense.

Get their approval or forget about it.

If you are only going to live there for 10 years, what is the likelihood that what you are doing will appeal to the next buyer of your house? I think you might be creating a sunk cost that you'll never get back. Might as well rent a shop area in a nearby industrial complex -- likely cheaper in the long run.

 

[Falcon67]

... No man will tell me what I can and cannot do on my land.

You gotta love blanket statements. Apparently West Deptford can and does:

"Zoning Requirements Detached Garage – must be at least 10 feet from all property lines and may not exceed 600 square feet in size with a maximum height of 20 feet.
Storage Shed – must be at least six feet from all property lines and may not exceed 400 square feet and 12 feet in height. Zoning Permits are required for ALL size sheds. A zoning application along with a true and accurate survey showing the location of the shed meet requirements for a zoning permit. The fee for the zoning permit is $12.00
Swimming Pool – must be at least six feet from all property lines and at least five feet from the house.
Any structure (deck, addition) attached to the existing dwelling or new residential construction must fall within the zoning setback requirements and may be determined by contacting the zoning office at 856.845.4004 extension 120."


Almost all cities and plenty of counties have restrictions. I'd be willing to bet you can't start a junkyard or a pig farm unless you live on big acres at the crossroads of hell and nowhere.

 

[mmb617]

And for the 1000th time I ask myself why would anybody in his right mind buy a house where they know full well they will be forever under the thumb of an HOA?

And then, having made such a poor decision, why would they complain about it later?

 

[DekeT]

Riddle me this: What is a man who tries to tell another man what he can do with his private property?



The entire philosophy and theory of HOA's piss me off to no end. No man will tell me what I can and cannot do on my land.

Are you saying that under no circumstances that you care nor will act upon or voice opposition to what your neighbor does and how it might affect you?

 

[Geo's66]

Thanks all, they are HO rules, not covenants.. I'm not tying to be a pain to anyone... Seems to me they should just look at drawings before shooting them down.. When that happens, then I feel like " screw you" I'll do it ALL my way then..

 

[nehog]

... Seems to me they should just look at drawings before shooting them down...

Re-read my reply about creating a precedent... Why go to a lot of work when you won't win (unless they are a bunch of idiots, and in that case be 100% to get it all in writing!)

Another hope is to find one or more other residents who are bound to the HOA that have already broken that rule and the HOA has not taken steps to correct the infractions. If you can find that you might have the basis for a law suit to force them to approve yours as well.

Bottom line: is it even worth the effort?

If you can build an attached, that's what I'd do, attached using a 20 or 30 ft walkway!

 

[StevePgh]

Here in Vegas, if you build it w/o HOA approval, they can (and likely will) have you tear it down at your expense.

Don't forget the daily fines for each day you are in violation and the lien that will happen when you don't pay it (along with all the collection and legal fees they spend to get that far that, of course, keep accumulating). They can get pretty high pretty fast.

 

[5lima30]

Sell, then MOVE!

 

[buddyboy]

those rules were in place before you got there and will be in place after you leave.

don't try to change them.

if you moved to a home in the country where both your neighbors were pig farmers you wouldn't ask them to do something about the smell.

put your house up for sale and let the next guy complain about the HOA.

this is a good learning experience for you.

good luck.

 

[38Chevy454]

First things first. Your title said "neighborhood covenants" and then you are talking about a HOA.

Which is it? Covenants are on the deed to your property and are VERY difficult to change. An example would be those in my subdivision where the only covenants concern the minimum size of the house, the roof has to have architectural shingles (or metal) and be at least a 7/12 pitch and the garage doors must open to the side of the house. Oh yeah, forgot the other one, no farm animals except for horses if your lot size is over 5 acres....

A home owner association on the other hand can create a lot of heartache with stupid "rules" that can be changes by a majority of the homeowners. They are usually run by some old biddy with nothing else left to do than to make life miserable for other homeowners

This is an important distinction. HOA's typically have power, and can make your life hell. Whereas covenants without an HOA are much more difficult to enforce, are generally more for building requirements than small details. Covenants are set up buy the orig developer of the property and are used as a sales aid so people know what can be built or not. Covenants are difficult to change, they are filed with the county

As for your request, the best I can suggest is to work with them, ask for a variance for detached; you might get lucky. If you just build it ignoring their HOA approval process then they have ability to put liens, fines and other difficulties on your property and you.

 

[info2x]

Bear in mind that all levels of government restrict the power (or allow the existence of) the HOA. If you really wish to challenge them on anything you need to start at the laws on the federal level, state, county, then municipality to make sure the HOA is not overextending their authority. There are lots of case law examples out there as well. Geo's66 does not have a home state listed, but if it is PA I can help out with the state references. Some (if not most) HOA boards have no idea their power is limited at all, an example of that are restrictions on antennas, covered by federal rule.

Very true for my neighborhood. We aren't allowed to have a detached structure according to our HOA, but when they built my house the town approved it. When the HOA went to fight it the town told them the have no authority since it meets code. This is why the HOA only has 8 rules and all of them have been broken by several people.

That being said I'm glad I wasn't the one who did the fighting since my neighbors said it rocked the boat quite a bit. Since then people have gotten over it.

 

[hdridinas1]

All this talk is exactly why when my wife and I were looking for our first home, we told the realtor that we did not want an HOA. Plus, I didn't see the point of paying fees to live in a house I am already paying for.

 

[DIYKiah]

I guess an HOA can be a good thing in "some" instances... If you had a lot of commons areas that they maintained the upkeep on, or if they helped with things like snow removal and stuff of this nature.... but for the most part it seems like it would be a real nuisance.

One big pro is that it is going to help you get the most bang for your buck when you sell your home (or at least one would think)

 

[-Brent-]

I think this is where not reading the contracted terms of agreement gets us into trouble. It's frustrating that they won't allow it but they've got that fine print with a signature beneath it saying, "you won't" attempt it. Read each and every contract you sign. If you don't understand it - have it explained. Then, if you don't like it you can go on from there.

Kick yourself in the rear for moving into a HOA and wanting to do something a HOA doesn't allow.