Ok so Ive made some decisions regarding what to do or whats going to be needed to properly run my sandblast cabinet. Ive decided that Im going to pick up an 80 gallon compressor. My problem is that I have no 220 in the garage. Option: Run 220 out to garage at an added cost and labor on my part. I basically came to the conclusion that I would install the compressor in my basement shop where ill be able to wire in the 220 line more easily and also have an opportunity to pipe in lines for my indoor shop. okay so then Ill still need to get that air out to the garage. I figured that I could pipe everything inside for my indoor shop while also running a line to the back of the house where I could have a short section of pipe with a coupler exposed at the back of the house (kinda like a garden hose spigot) i would then run all of the piping in the garage and basically do the same where a short piece of pipe with a coupling would be at the back of the garage. I would then only need to run a short length of hose from coupling to coupling (approx 8ft my yard is very small) and then this way I would then have my air supply to my garage. I like the idea of the compressor being inside my home for several reasons... I wont have to hear the thing running while im working, less chance for someone to decide to steal it because the wont see it, and as already mentioned not having to run 220 out to the garage. i just wanted to get your opinions on my idea of getting the air out to the garage. think it would be my easiest solution.
Getting compressor air from house to garage...
- Thread starter OpFlash
- Start date
Kwikasfaki
Well-known member
OpFlash,
It will work OK as long as you use big enough hose/pipe (the bigger and shorter the better) and high flow connections. You should be able to work out what size you need with cfm your blaster needs to operate. To isolate the garage use a suitable ball valve and mount the compressor, in the basement, as close to the garage as possible. Also a secondary tank in the garage will also help, with a check valve between the tanks. I assume you will not operate air tools in the basement and the garage at the same time.
Cheers Kwiki
It will work OK as long as you use big enough hose/pipe (the bigger and shorter the better) and high flow connections. You should be able to work out what size you need with cfm your blaster needs to operate. To isolate the garage use a suitable ball valve and mount the compressor, in the basement, as close to the garage as possible. Also a secondary tank in the garage will also help, with a check valve between the tanks. I assume you will not operate air tools in the basement and the garage at the same time.
Cheers Kwiki
sickboy motors inc.
Well-known member
If and when you do this, please post pics!
djkeev
Well-known member
Why do you want the noisy compressor in the house?!?!???
Dave
Dave
Steevo
Well-known member
This was my first reaction.
Can you work in the garage, with the compressor running in the basement, without getting a bunch of **** from the wife?
Ok so have to say some confusion here. I have been reading up on copmressors in various threads here. I understand about using larger size pipe Id probably go with 1/2 or 3/4 pipe. As far as getting tank as close to the garage as possible thats where Im a bit confused. I was under the assumption that the longer the run from the compressor to the tool is benefitial because it will help with moisture issues as Ill have more lines set up to trap the moisture... Also last question regarding using a second tank. Not sure how that would be setup. I do have my current 5hp 33gal oiless CM that I could use but the whole purpose for me going with an 80 gal compressor is so that i would only need one. Is there a big gain from this? Is it practical and are a lot of people running that type of set up. thanks in advance
Kinda mentioned it to her... my indoor shop has a door wich i could close to help cut on the noise a bit. Shes pretty cool about it right now (dont thing she realizes how loud its gonna be??) Also im hoping that once I get it filled up being an 80 gal it wont have to cycle so much. my blast cabinet requires a cfm of about 10 at 90 up to 14 at 145psi. I think that id be running it roud 90-100. So Im not sure how quickly the thing would be kicking in. I know that Ill get some heavy use for a while while im wokring on various pieces for powdercoating (for my 88 bronco II) and as i complete things it will get used less. or not daily. I thought hard about putting it in the garage but really to be honest with you my main fear is some a$$ hole breaking into my garage and stealing it.
The story behind my fears of putting into garage. Had a really nice emglo torpedo style compressor that I bought used but was really nice. Had it in my garage for a few years hidden out of sight. never really used it much. decided to fire it up one weekend and within two freaking days my garage got broken into and it was stolen along with alot of my tools etc. so im freaking out a bit. Yes I know if i have air and decide to use my impacts etc people can assume that i have a compressor etc and get curious enough to try to break in but i figure not having a monster compressor poking out in the back of my garage will help out some. I do work as much as possible with my garage closed but there are times that Im out there with it open.
An 80 gallon compressor isn't the sort of thing someone puts under their jacket and runs off with, you'll lose all your other tools before the compressor goes.
What type of compressor? If it's a high-speed HF type you won't want it in the house.
What type of compressor? If it's a high-speed HF type you won't want it in the house.
True I do hear you on that one. I just dont want to give anyone any interest or ideas aobut getting in there. I was lookig at probably something along the lines of a craftsman model or speed aire porter cable ive been doing some research online a bit. probably something like a 6hp model 2 stage if i can swing it with cfm ratings around 14-16 at 100psi. Im not sure what a HF type compressor is. whats wrong with that in the house??
Morrisman
Well-known member
The longer the connection hose the more resistance the air will have, or the more pressure drop. You can overcome this by simply using a big hose.
Any moisture will drop out of the air once it cools, so a long hose is sort of good for this, but you'll need to run it downhill to a low point to install your moisture trap, so any drops of water will run out, rather than congregate in a low point of the hose.
Seriously, I'd be running the 220 power line out to the garage and install the compressor there. Much easier, and your wife will thank you when she sees how much noise and vibration it puts out.
Any moisture will drop out of the air once it cools, so a long hose is sort of good for this, but you'll need to run it downhill to a low point to install your moisture trap, so any drops of water will run out, rather than congregate in a low point of the hose.
Seriously, I'd be running the 220 power line out to the garage and install the compressor there. Much easier, and your wife will thank you when she sees how much noise and vibration it puts out.
digdug18
Well-known member
I think you've got it backwards a bit concerning run length. Shorter is better for your compressor not turning on as often, and using less cfm. For moisture there are products that can be used to deal with that, a line chiller is one way to go another is a desiccant dryer(preferred one in my mind). Yes a longer run can be one way to deal with moisture in your lines, but it isn't iddeal.
Using a full size blast cabinet, your compressor is going to be running all the time, your wife won't say anything for a bit, but you know how they get. Next thing you know you'll be moving the piping and compressor out to the garage to appease the wife. I think you'd be better off starting with the compressor in the garage. If your that worried about theft, upgrade you locks in your garage, add tint to the windows, etc. For the size compressor your looking at, unless the thief has a pallet jack of 7 guys with him, he's not going to steal the compressor.
Might be a good idea to bolt the compressor to the floor, through some of the rubber standoffs to help with vibration.
For your compressor, 6hp should be fine, just make sure that you are making more air then you are using, example being that if your using 10 at 90 up to 14 at 145psi, you want to be producing a couple more cfm at each of those pressures, or your compressor really will be running all the time.
Using a full size blast cabinet, your compressor is going to be running all the time, your wife won't say anything for a bit, but you know how they get. Next thing you know you'll be moving the piping and compressor out to the garage to appease the wife. I think you'd be better off starting with the compressor in the garage. If your that worried about theft, upgrade you locks in your garage, add tint to the windows, etc. For the size compressor your looking at, unless the thief has a pallet jack of 7 guys with him, he's not going to steal the compressor.
Might be a good idea to bolt the compressor to the floor, through some of the rubber standoffs to help with vibration.
For your compressor, 6hp should be fine, just make sure that you are making more air then you are using, example being that if your using 10 at 90 up to 14 at 145psi, you want to be producing a couple more cfm at each of those pressures, or your compressor really will be running all the time.
digdug18
Well-known member
Do a dry run, put your little craftsman compressor in your basement, let it run while your wife is in there for awhile, then you'll see what we mean.
I do think its the vibration more than anything especially with a big compressor, but you'll see what I mean.
you do not want an 80 gallon compressor in your house.
8 ft from house? its called wire and conduit. what on earth could you be doing in the basement that rquires that much air? bury a pvc pipe in the ground and run the wire from the house and use the same pipe to return an air line. 8 ft could be dug by hand and the pipe could also be used as a conduit to run additianal electricity, phone, tv and internet lines in the future.
8 ft from house? its called wire and conduit. what on earth could you be doing in the basement that rquires that much air? bury a pvc pipe in the ground and run the wire from the house and use the same pipe to return an air line. 8 ft could be dug by hand and the pipe could also be used as a conduit to run additianal electricity, phone, tv and internet lines in the future.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I don't know when I ever heard of thieves stealing an 80 gallon compressor
Kwikasfaki
Well-known member
OpFlash,
I would look after the moisture seperately, water trap, dryer,whatever, and close to the blaster, not rely on the plumbing to do it alone, use drop drains for other outlets.
With the extra tank you get more volume and retain your pressure, which is what your blaster needs.
The system would go like this, comp. & main tank -> check valve -> secondary tank (NO comp.) -> blaster.
But I do agree with others about the compressor away from the house, and run plumbing back to the basement if need be.
Kwiki
Okay guys thanks first off for the comments and suggestions. Its given me alot to think about. So basically Ive come to my senses and looks like Im going to run the 220 out to the garage. I know its heavy and not something that is regularly stolen but I live in Chicago and well you know its the big city. I think your right about beefing up security a bit and also bolting compressor unit to the floor. Guess partially it was a bit of paranoia because of being broken into in the past....
Ok now I love the idea about running a few other lines along with the 220 to the garage I could see potentially having a tv out there in the future. I have wireless internet so that wouldnt be a problem. Im wondering though how big of a pvc pipe do you suggest?? Also how deep would I have to dig the trench I know below the frost line but not sure exactly how deep that is? I do live in chicago and our winters can be brutal. If im going with a trench Could I run a gas line in a seperate pvc pipe parallel to the electrical lines? Figure if im going to go through all of that maybe I could set myself up to heat the garage too.
Ok so just to make it clear I want to have the compressor lines as close to the blast cabinet as possible?? I have an automatic drain valve that Ill be using with the 80gal and i think since ill just run the air from the 80 gal in the garage only Ill prob go with 3/4" galvanized or black pipe. would this be more ideal than 1/2" Also ive read in other threads about desicant dryers and other moisture traps needing to be a good distance from compressor because the majority of the moisture that comes out from the compressor is right from the begining where it leaves the tank and so some of the desicant filters were becoming prematurely used up or soaked and this is why the air was run first past few "pipe" traps where the lines tee'd off to a drop that was soley to trap moisture before hitting desicant dryer and blast cab
ford33
Well-known member
Glad to hear that you are not running a large compressor in the house. The noise will be very objectionable. I also live in the Chicago area and located my air compressor outside in an enclosure I built. I used 3/4" "thick wall" copper tube from the compressor to the garage. Use copper tube rating "K or L" (Green or Blue stripe respectively) not "M" red stripe. Do not use black or galv piping. The water will rust these iron pipe and you will have rust particles and flakes in your air supply causing you a number of problems with sticking valves, spray paint contamination and clogged air tools. You should put drain valves in the the lowest level pipe locations to allow you to drain water from the pipes and then use them frequently to clear the water. Running an air compressor in the humid Chicago summer will generate a lot of water in the compressed air.
If the garage is cold in the winter i.e. unheated garage, you might consider using a synthetic oil designed for compressors. It will provide better lubrication in cold weather. My compressor is outdoors and runs all year. I've been through two winters without a problem. I use Amsoil synthetic compressor oil.
If the garage is cold in the winter i.e. unheated garage, you might consider using a synthetic oil designed for compressors. It will provide better lubrication in cold weather. My compressor is outdoors and runs all year. I've been through two winters without a problem. I use Amsoil synthetic compressor oil.
ford33
Well-known member
Many industrial locations use black pipe but these installations are done by professionals and have all the pipe supports and water drains, particulate filters installed and follow a maintenance schedule. Some of these pipe installations are works of beauty and art. Homeowners don't work with black pipe often and usually make a mess of the installation.
The thick wall copper tube is expensive but easy to cut and solder. If you make a mistake unsolder it and do it again. Thick wall gives you a greater margin of safety when dealing with high pressure fluids. There's lots of fittings available for copper tube to attach filters, lubricators, quick disconnects and gauges. Support the copper tube every 18" or so of length. Use a rubber hose from the compressor to the copper tube to reduce vibration into the copper tube and reduce the possiblity of failed solder joints due to vibration.
Don't forget to install a pressure gauge near the quick disconnect so you can confirm pressure at the work site. Ideally, you should use a filter/regulator at the air outlet. The filter will keep the inside of your tools cleaner and the regulator will allow you to adjust pressure easily.
Finally, don't underestimate the need to remove water from the lines. The warm humid air during Chicago summers is being drawn into the compressor tank and output to the pipe. That water can sit in the tank and sit in low level spots of the air lines and will corrode your air tank and tools and ruin your paint jobs. You need a valve at the low pipe locations to purge the lines of water. Some installers will slant the long pipe runs to a low point so only one purge valve is needed. Good luck with the installation.
The thick wall copper tube is expensive but easy to cut and solder. If you make a mistake unsolder it and do it again. Thick wall gives you a greater margin of safety when dealing with high pressure fluids. There's lots of fittings available for copper tube to attach filters, lubricators, quick disconnects and gauges. Support the copper tube every 18" or so of length. Use a rubber hose from the compressor to the copper tube to reduce vibration into the copper tube and reduce the possiblity of failed solder joints due to vibration.
Don't forget to install a pressure gauge near the quick disconnect so you can confirm pressure at the work site. Ideally, you should use a filter/regulator at the air outlet. The filter will keep the inside of your tools cleaner and the regulator will allow you to adjust pressure easily.
Finally, don't underestimate the need to remove water from the lines. The warm humid air during Chicago summers is being drawn into the compressor tank and output to the pipe. That water can sit in the tank and sit in low level spots of the air lines and will corrode your air tank and tools and ruin your paint jobs. You need a valve at the low pipe locations to purge the lines of water. Some installers will slant the long pipe runs to a low point so only one purge valve is needed. Good luck with the installation.
I should mention that I have worked quite a bit with galvanized lines and black pipe for gas lines in the past. I have everything i need to cut and thread the pipes for custom lengths etc. however I have never worked with soldering copper 
So that being said I may still go with the black pipe making sure that I do everything to trap and prevent moisture in the lines..
So that being said I may still go with the black pipe making sure that I do everything to trap and prevent moisture in the lines..fredybender
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2012
- Messages
- 141
I have a 4HP 60 gallon compressor in my ex-garage, that is now my workshop...
Its a basement one car garage, that needed to be condemened, in order for me to build my 22X24 in the back yard.
I am keeping the compressor in the basement, along with all my other fabricating equipement (lathe small mill, TIG, press, shear , brake etc...)
I am running a 3/4 line in an ABS pipe to the garage, about 70 feet away.
I also bought a Speed Aire dryer, right after the compressor. I have a 15 gallon tank in my garage, and my compressor, will be delivereing 155 PSI all the way to the Aux tank.
I will be posting up pictures soon, I still need to hook everything up...
Cheers
Fred
Its a basement one car garage, that needed to be condemened, in order for me to build my 22X24 in the back yard.
I am keeping the compressor in the basement, along with all my other fabricating equipement (lathe small mill, TIG, press, shear , brake etc...)
I am running a 3/4 line in an ABS pipe to the garage, about 70 feet away.
I also bought a Speed Aire dryer, right after the compressor. I have a 15 gallon tank in my garage, and my compressor, will be delivereing 155 PSI all the way to the Aux tank.
I will be posting up pictures soon, I still need to hook everything up...
Cheers
Fred
Morrisman
Well-known member
Why would the length of the pipe affect the CFM of the compressor? And why would it affect how often it cycles too?
Line chiller? Desiccant dryer? Why not just use the same type of in-line dryer filter everybody else in the world uses?
mdbeck1
Well-known member
CFM=Cubic Feet per Minute. That's the "flow" of the air. You're always going to fight friction in the lines and that will reduce the flow rate of the air. Usually you compensate for that by running a larger diameter pipe from the source (compressor) to the destination (garage?). Having a tank at the destination end (garage) will reduce the need for the air at the destination but does not eliminate it. Also more connections means more leaks. I don't care how good you are you will always end up with some minor leaks. More connections = more leaks.
My understanding of a line chiller is that it will give the moisture in the air a place to displace the energy we know as heat and will let the water condense so that it can be removed more easily. What you get on the downstream end of the line chiller is fairly "dry" air.
My understanding of a desiccant dryer is that it has a moisture absorbing material installed that will absorb the water from the air. Most of the in-line dryers slow the air down some and give the water a place to collect. I'm not sure if the holes in the filters actually pull the water particles out or not.
My experience says that if you are going to run pipe run the largest that you can afford (I'm sure that there's an optimum size) and put some type of water collection/extraction device on the delivery end. A pressure regulator on the delivery end is usually a good idea as well. An in-line tank at the delivery end will give you a reservoir at that end that will act as a water collection device and make your air delivery more smooth.
Morrisman
Well-known member
Just standard in line dryer/filter setup, looks a bit like this. Whatever sort of establishment you buy your air tools and stuff from will have them in stock. They won't cost more than $50-$100 for a decent one. They come as a pair, or single. Some are self draining, some need you to unscrew the bleed screw every so often.
Condensation is a natural byproduct of compressing the atmosphere. There will always be some water in it, but the hotter and dryer a place you live, the less water.
Your main compressor tank will be the first stage for getting the water out, as it will condense in the bottom of that tank and need draining off occasionally. Some will usually carry over in the air supply and go down the pipe with the air.
The length of the pipe between your compressor and your air tool won't vary the cfm you need, but it can reduce the flow of the air, thus the pressure you get to the tool when in use. This is due to drag/friction as it passes through the pipe. The bigger diameter pipe will reduce this drag.
I earn my coin working offshore on 2000psi air compressors, putting out 1500cfm, powered by an 800hp electric motor. We have 5 stages of compression with coolers and dryers between every stage. Each compressor weighs 50 tons.
This is the first stage piston, 22" diameter:
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fourjeepin
Well-known member
What do you do that requires that high a pressure and cfm? Sounds incredibly dangerous being around vessels capable of that high a pressure.
Wow thats a crazzy compressor. Thanks for the updates. It lookks like Im still going with the 80 gal and Ill probably go with 3/4" black pipe. Im looking at running the pipe in a square shape around the garage with a few areas tee'd off for drainage and 3 connection stations 1 for my blast cabinet . 1 at my workbench. and 1 in the center of the garage where ill hook up a long hose with reel. Ill run seperate filter / regulators just before each connection station so that i can vary the psi for each tool that ill be using. I have an automatic drain valve that attaches to the bottom of the compressor and can be set up to open up from .5 to 4 seconds and go off every 30 sec to 45 min.
Morrisman
Well-known member
We use it to fire 'air guns' in the water, sort of echo-sounding the sea bed to search for oil.
Sounds like a good set up. Remember, any moisture will collect at low points, so you do well to angle your pipe runs down a little bit and put the water traps at the bottom of the run. That is sort of taking it to extremes though. I never seemed to get hardly any water in my home compressors, both when we lived in the UK and now we've moved to the Philippines.
I used a regulator/filter/dryer for my LPHV (low pressure high volume) spray gun, as it only requires 35si at the gun.
Chadwilliam1
Well-known member
op you are only drawing 10 cfm @ 90 psi. 3/8 pipe is enough, but 3/4 is what I would use to be on the safe side.
my 60 gallon single stage is in my basement and my wife doesn't mind. I put it in the basement because garage space is limited.
my 60 gallon single stage is in my basement and my wife doesn't mind. I put it in the basement because garage space is limited.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
It sounds as if your garage is detached from the house. If so, you will have to run a large enough 240v circuit to the garage to power EVERYTHING in the garage (via a breaker panel in the garage) and you will have to remove any other power sources coming from the house. Code only allows you to have one source of power to the building. I know Chicago has their own electric code, I seem to recall it requires conduit for everything.
Charles
Charles
Morrisman
Well-known member
And while you are burying conduit etc, run a couple of extra 1" plastic pipes alongside too, so if in the future you decide to run something, water, central heating, radio, pumped beer, whatever, you can simply slide it through the pipe.
ilovevocs
Well-known member
I don't think anyone mentioned this yet but the when your talking 220 to your shop I'm thinking...welder. That's the other benefit, but your already not convinced. Try to run a little larger cable than you need if you can afford it to leave room for future expansion. This would be my approach. I would pull a sub panel min. 100 amps. For 100 amps you could pull 2-2-2-4 aluminum to the 100 amp panel. Back in my younger years I only had 1 50 amp 220 outlet in my shop so I would fill the compressor, unplug it and run my plasma until it ran out of air. It got old fast. The product of being 16 years old though and working out of dads garage. I didn't have the sense to think about powering that plasma before I got it, I just knew I wanted it and had just enough money to buy it.
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