DIY A/C install, Dumb Home owner

[Mmfh]

Hey there,
I'm starting to work this out in my head so I can get this figured out and start collecting the materials I need to get this done.

My Home has not had A/C before and I want to add it. I have a Condenser unit outside, Used, a "A" coil that goes with the condenser. New furnace installed.

I bought several years ago a used furnace with the condenser and "A" coil so I could add A/C to my house. Poured a small pad outside for the condenser, installed the furnace and that is as far as I got.

Furnace failed and had another unit installed, told installer that I was planning on using the A/C stuff I had so the furnace they were installing had to be able to work with it.

I know I need to run the line set from the outside Condenser to the "A" coil inside the furnace Plenum. What I really don't know right now is about the flow of air over the "A" coil. Do I just set it up in such a way that all of the air from the furnace blows directly through the coil? Seems this would slow down the air needed in winter for heating.

The Plenum is just a 2' x 2' x 2' box under the furnace, I figured I would open that up and make a ledge on two sides so the coil could sit in the air path. Run the lines to the condenser, add service ports, wire it up, call an HVAC guy to come and charge it up.

You can see now that I have very "Basic" knowledge at this point of how this is going to work. This is the beginning of my research, can you add any info that will help me with this project.

I can't afford to hire this out, so please don't tell me I should. If I can't do it myself I won't have A/C again this year. I'm determined to make this happen.

Thank You very much!

Mm

 

[pipsters]

Try this site:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/

Whatever you do don't go to hvac-talk.com, they will tell you to hire a pro. It isn't a DIY site. And they're kinda dicks about it.

 

[Falcon67]

You don't say whether this is an up flow or down flow furnace. And yes, all the air output goes over the A coil. The air should be entering the bottom of the A coil, not hitting the top.

> Run the lines to the condenser, add service ports, wire it up, call an HVAC guy to >come and charge it up.

And you may have a real hard time getting one to do that. They don't like DIY work much, if at all. If you are in a small town, you'll maybe have better luck.

>And they're kinda dicks about it.
Putting it mildly.

 

[pipsters]

What sort of expansion valve did the evaporator coil come with? Does it have one? If not you will need one of those as well.

 

[Mike007]

I'm in the AC business. I can't speak for other contractors, but I'll tell you why I want nothing to do with DIY projects. For 1, the equipment is always over-sized. Usually by at least double. 2, people who DIY are looking to save money. They usually want what they need done for next to nothing, so it's not profitable. 3, the workmanship is usually horrible and the install is usually not correct. Then when there is a problem with the system or it needs additional work to make it right, they think the additional work should be done at no extra cost. One guy went as far as to threaten to not pay me at all because the system in which he did 95% of the install wouldn't work on start up. It's just not worth the headache.

 

[Full Throttle]

I'll tell you how much a **** we would be about it, I would charge you pretty much the same to charge it up as it would to run the lines. You can wire it all you want thats fine, but I have to leak check the lines, pull a vacume, gas it to spec which it's prolly R-22 and that is getting right spendy. Then god forbid you got dirt, solder etc in the line and it caused a problem who's *** would it be? you would be looking at me the ''Pro'' you hired to just gas it up. Your not really going to save yourself any money here I can gaurantee that.

Why am I such a ****, well it's my career. I also have to be licensed to handle refrigerant by the EPA, I also have to be licensed by the state as a HVAC contractor. All this requires time and money to keep.


Good luck


If you don't know what your doing hire a pro. there I saved you from going to HVAC-Talk, as I am there as well.

 

[Mmfh]

I'm in the AC business. I can't speak for other contractors, but I'll tell you why I want nothing to do with DIY projects. For 1, the equipment is always over-sized. Usually by at least double. 2, people who DIY are looking to save money. They usually want what they need done for next to nothing, so it's not profitable. 3, the workmanship is usually horrible and the install is usually not correct. Then when there is a problem with the system or it needs additional work to make it right, they think the additional work should be done at no extra cost. One guy went as far as to threaten to not pay me at all because the system in which he did 95% of the install wouldn't work on start up. It's just not worth the headache.

I completely understand your point of view on this, running my Automotive business for over 20 years I've seen a lot of situations with people trying to save money and screwing things up.

With me, I'm **** about doing it right, After all this is my own house! I do a ton of research and when I finally figure I half way know what I'm doing I will start looking for materials.

If I screw it up, the last thing I'm going to do is blame a contractor that is doing it for a living. I may really need this guys help and I don't want to piss him off or make him feel its just not worth it to help me.

I know I can handle this, and I have a high school buddy that has his own HVAC business, he does mostly Commercial stuff now a days and is very busy so I don't want to bother him with stupid questions. When I feel the install is done correctly I will call him to do the Evac and recharge.

Thank You!

Mm

 

[Full Throttle]

I'm in the AC business. I can't speak for other contractors, but I'll tell you why I want nothing to do with DIY projects. For 1, the equipment is always over-sized. Usually by at least double. 2, people who DIY are looking to save money. They usually want what they need done for next to nothing, so it's not profitable. 3, the workmanship is usually horrible and the install is usually not correct. Then when there is a problem with the system or it needs additional work to make it right, they think the additional work should be done at no extra cost. One guy went as far as to threaten to not pay me at all because the system in which he did 95% of the install wouldn't work on start up. It's just not worth the headache.

a little more diplomatic than me

 

[Mmfh]

Try this site:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/

Whatever you do don't go to hvac-talk.com, they will tell you to hire a pro. It isn't a DIY site. And they're kinda dicks about it.

I will spend some time over there learning what I can from them.
Thank You!

Mm

 

[Full Throttle]

I completely understand your point of view on this, running my Automotive business for over 20 years I've seen a lot of situations with people trying to save money and screwing things up.

With me, I'm **** about doing it right, After all this is my own house! I do a ton of research and when I finally figure I half way know what I'm doing I will start looking for materials.

If I screw it up, the last thing I'm going to do is blame a contractor that is doing it for a living. I may really need this guys help and I don't want to piss him off or make him feel its just not worth it to help me.

I know I can handle this, and I have a high school buddy that has his own HVAC business, he does mostly Commercial stuff now a days and is very busy so I don't want to bother him with stupid questions. When I feel the install is done correctly I will call him to do the Evac and recharge.

Thank You!

Mm

the buddy in the bussiness is what will save you here, he knows you. If it were not for that you would have a hard time getting another company to do what you want

 

[Mmfh]

You don't say whether this is an up flow or down flow furnace. And yes, all the air output goes over the A coil. The air should be entering the bottom of the A coil, not hitting the top.

> Run the lines to the condenser, add service ports, wire it up, call an HVAC guy to >come and charge it up.

And you may have a real hard time getting one to do that. They don't like DIY work much, if at all. If you are in a small town, you'll maybe have better luck.

>And they're kinda dicks about it.
Putting it mildly.

I just learned something right there, I was originally thinking the open side of the 'A" coil would go down. You say it goes up so I'm already learning. This is a "Downdraft furnace" with the return coming into the top, Plenum supply is what the furnace sits on and the ducts run from that through the crawl space and to the boots in each room.

I'm on SSD which is hardly anything, even though I would love to hire someone to help me with this, because I feel like hell most of the time, I just can't.

Thanks everyone for your responses!

Mm

 

[Mmfh]

What sort of expansion valve did the evaporator coil come with? Does it have one? If not you will need one of those as well.

That I'm going to have to check into, thanks for pointing that out.

Mm

 

[Jagmandave]

You're confusing me with your discussion of the A coil - it's an A, the pointy part goes to the top - that's what he meant by the air entering the open side.

at least on an updraft furnace.

Don't forget to provide for a drain for the condensation off the coil, if you measure it you may be able to buy a prefabbed tray for the A coil to sit in, it will have the drain built into it, then all you need to do is solder a tube on to carry the water away - if you don't that new furnace will rust to bits in no time.

I did something similar to you, I installed my own new furnace and was going to do my own A/C install, but I contracted it out instead to a local HVAC company and he had it in and running in only a couple of hours - and it really wasn't that much money. Plus it was sized correctly for my house....

Many many many years ago when I was a lad my dad and I installed central A/C in the family home, he bought a "Kit" (from Sears, IIRC) that had all the components, including lines that were pre-charged. All we had to do was plumb every thing and hook it up, and it worked perfectly! Wonder if you can still do that?

 

[Davefr]

Try this site:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/

Whatever you do don't go to hvac-talk.com, they will tell you to hire a pro. It isn't a DIY site. And they're kinda dicks about it.

See this thread I started nearly 5 years ago:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/diy-heat-pump-air-handler-replacement-4800/index3/

Now see my follow up post #31 within this thread.

Now you can decide for yourself.

 

[pipsters]

I just learned something right there, I was originally thinking the open side of the 'A" coil would go down. You say it goes up so I'm already learning. This is a "Downdraft furnace" with the return coming into the top, Plenum supply is what the furnace sits on and the ducts run from that through the crawl space and to the boots in each room.

I'm on SSD which is hardly anything, even though I would love to hire someone to help me with this, because I feel like hell most of the time, I just can't.

Thanks everyone for your responses!

Mm

At the end of April my AC started acting up. Even had a post on here about it. Well 2 techs later and one replacement fan motor and the problem was still there. I did some research, posted some stuff online, but what I found out is as a DIY'er you can obtain the necessary knowledge yourself but it takes time.

This will probably not be a project you can complete this year.

The universal 608 test in my area is $75 and that includes the study material (there is plenty also available online). Without that you CANNOT hook up gauges or buy refrigerant. Once you have it, you will realize just how much is involved in recovering refrigerant. The fines are huge $37k.

Also you'll understand just why venting refrigerant is so bad for the atmosphere.

I wish HVAC was DIY'er friendly but it's really not. It's very much knowledge based as opposed to materials based (think concrete, much of the cost is in materials).

Just recovering refrigerant you need a couple hundred dollar machine, tank, and gauges.

If your unit is used chances are it's R-22. If it's R-410A you're in a little bit better position.

 

[pipsters]

See this thread I started nearly 5 years ago:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/diy-heat-pump-air-handler-replacement-4800/index3/

Now see my follow up post #31 within this thread.

Now you can decide for yourself.

Impressive! I wish there were more DIY friendly guides out there. Go to Home Depot or Lowes and there are DIY plumbing and electrical but nothing on HVAC.

Just like a car mechanic, often times the only thing separating a pro from shade tree guy is speed. I can put new brake pads and rotors on my car but it will take me 3x or 4x as long as a guy who does it for a living. Doesn't mean I'm any worse at it, in fact like you said the result might actually even be better.

 

[green.bubbly]

I do not want to start a flame war with the HVAC professionals around here and I understand your points.

There are tons and tons of people that can not even change a light bulb. These folks are completely reliant on professionals for all their needs.

Then there is a relatively smaller group that are pretty good handy men and can figure out most things and have the mechanical ability. Most of what they lack, they can safely learn by reading books and the Internet.


"We" are the ones that can change our own oil and hoses and belts. We can do a brake job and replace a radiator. We need the professionals only for the more advanced stuff.

I recently installed my own HVAC. I have the skills to drag the air handler upstairs, build a box stand for it, measure and have the plenums fabricated and then attach them to the air handler. I was able to apply the mastic to seal everything up, cut the holes for the duct starter collars, install the collars ans run the flex duct. I ran the electrical, thermostat wire and poured my own concrete pad.

What I can not do or do not have the proper equipment is to braze the lines, pull a vacuum and set the proper charges. For that, I will need to hire a professional which I have done. Easy $200.00 bucks for him. I am not sure what there is to complain about? He comes in, spends about 15 minutes with a torch and spends most to of the remaining time doing very little manual labor.

Now, ask me how I calculated what size unit I needed. Easy, i called for three estimates from three professional installers. All three asked the same question, how many square feet. All three gave me an estimate for a 4 ton unit. Cheapest one was $8500.00.

Wife and I did it for a total of under $3800.00. This was in a new construction residential home. Now I have no problem with people earning a living but when I can not even get one of these professional companies to pretend to at least do a manual J, then I have no hard feelings for giving them the finger.

I too am a professional in my field. I have also learned that some of my clients have more skills than others. Some are just starting out in business and I have no problem helping them out and showing them a few tricks. Instead of calling them cheap or tight wads, giving them a few minutes of my time or a little help has given me customers for life.

If a customer simply wants you to vacuum and charge, all you have to do is stipulate that their is no warranty. Take a couple of minutes and point out any thing major that was done wrong. Who knows, 5 years down the road, that same customer may not be a little more financially situated and when he needs a new system, he will give you a call.

Out of curiosity, do you call in a computer repairman every time your computer has an issue? Do you purchase your computers from a local computer sales store or do you look online for the cheapest unit you can find? Do you install any software yourself or do you pay a professional to do it for you?

 

[Falcon67]

Yes, don't quote me specifically on the A coil orientation on a downflow. Our old house and the new one both are up flows. The old house had the A coil over the furnace and the new house has it under. I would think it easier on a downflow to mount the coil on top of the furnace, open end down.

I like to save too. I also like to not to have future problems. When we needed a line set change out at the old house, I asked for a quote from the local guy - and offered to do the attic work to get the line set over and down to the a coil. He was a one man shop. I got a bit of a break and a new line set plus a full charge for $300. Now, this was about 6 years ago before the working fluid went bonkers on price.

I know people that can get me the pieces, no problem, and at a real discount. And we could really use a better heating system (its electric). However, properly sizing the system, installation and long term service tend to outweigh the initial savings, so I would go for a pro install. I would get your line set installed by a pro and charged. If you get someone to do that work and they are good to work with, be sure and call that one for service periodically. If you build up a working business relation, it'll carry more weight should this fraken system develop problems.

FWIW - if I was bucks down and desperate, I would have gone to a company and asked to purchase a decent change out. They'd get money for a scrapper system and an install, then you've got someone to work with.

 

[Full Throttle]

I do not want to start a flame war with the HVAC professionals around here and I understand your points.

There are tons and tons of people that can not even change a light bulb. These folks are completely reliant on professionals for all their needs.

Then there is a relatively smaller group that are pretty good handy men and can figure out most things and have the mechanical ability. Most of what they lack, they can safely learn by reading books and the Internet.


"We" are the ones that can change our own oil and hoses and belts. We can do a brake job and replace a radiator. We need the professionals only for the more advanced stuff.

I recently installed my own HVAC. I have the skills to drag the air handler upstairs, build a box stand for it, measure and have the plenums fabricated and then attach them to the air handler. I was able to apply the mastic to seal everything up, cut the holes for the duct starter collars, install the collars ans run the flex duct. I ran the electrical, thermostat wire and poured my own concrete pad.

What I can not do or do not have the proper equipment is to braze the lines, pull a vacuum and set the proper charges. For that, I will need to hire a professional which I have done. Easy $200.00 bucks for him. I am not sure what there is to complain about? He comes in, spends about 15 minutes with a torch and spends most to of the remaining time doing very little manual labor.

Now, ask me how I calculated what size unit I needed. Easy, i called for three estimates from three professional installers. All three asked the same question, how many square feet. All three gave me an estimate for a 4 ton unit. Cheapest one was $8500.00.

Wife and I did it for a total of under $3800.00. This was in a new construction residential home. Now I have no problem with people earning a living but when I can not even get one of these professional companies to pretend to at least do a manual J, then I have no hard feelings for giving them the finger.

I too am a professional in my field. I have also learned that some of my clients have more skills than others. Some are just starting out in business and I have no problem helping them out and showing them a few tricks. Instead of calling them cheap or tight wads, giving them a few minutes of my time or a little help has given me customers for life.

If a customer simply wants you to vacuum and charge, all you have to do is stipulate that their is no warranty. Take a couple of minutes and point out any thing major that was done wrong. Who knows, 5 years down the road, that same customer may not be a little more financially situated and when he needs a new system, he will give you a call.

Out of curiosity, do you call in a computer repairman every time your computer has an issue? Do you purchase your computers from a local computer sales store or do you look online for the cheapest unit you can find? Do you install any software yourself or do you pay a professional to do it for you?

Good points




to the OP

I do apologize for comming of pretty rude to you, there was a couple of posts refering to HVAC-Talk that ticked me off, why? that forum is and was set up for Pro's only by contracting magazine. I had to E-mail them my certifications and a copy of my HVAC License to gain access to the ''good'' parts of te site. It is a place where we can discuss thermodynamic's, building science, confidential service alerts, building codes etc, we do get alot of DIY there as well which is not tolerated. There are a few ''Pro's'' there that couldn't spell HVAC let alone work on one.

 

[JakeKohl]

I do not want to start a flame war with the HVAC professionals around here and I understand your points.

There are tons and tons of people that can not even change a light bulb. These folks are completely reliant on professionals for all their needs.

Then there is a relatively smaller group that are pretty good handy men and can figure out most things and have the mechanical ability. Most of what they lack, they can safely learn by reading books and the Internet.


"We" are the ones that can change our own oil and hoses and belts. We can do a brake job and replace a radiator. We need the professionals only for the more advanced stuff.

I recently installed my own HVAC. I have the skills to drag the air handler upstairs, build a box stand for it, measure and have the plenums fabricated and then attach them to the air handler. I was able to apply the mastic to seal everything up, cut the holes for the duct starter collars, install the collars ans run the flex duct. I ran the electrical, thermostat wire and poured my own concrete pad.

What I can not do or do not have the proper equipment is to braze the lines, pull a vacuum and set the proper charges. For that, I will need to hire a professional which I have done. Easy $200.00 bucks for him. I am not sure what there is to complain about? He comes in, spends about 15 minutes with a torch and spends most to of the remaining time doing very little manual labor.

Now, ask me how I calculated what size unit I needed. Easy, i called for three estimates from three professional installers. All three asked the same question, how many square feet. All three gave me an estimate for a 4 ton unit. Cheapest one was $8500.00.

Wife and I did it for a total of under $3800.00. This was in a new construction residential home. Now I have no problem with people earning a living but when I can not even get one of these professional companies to pretend to at least do a manual J, then I have no hard feelings for giving them the finger.

I too am a professional in my field. I have also learned that some of my clients have more skills than others. Some are just starting out in business and I have no problem helping them out and showing them a few tricks. Instead of calling them cheap or tight wads, giving them a few minutes of my time or a little help has given me customers for life.

If a customer simply wants you to vacuum and charge, all you have to do is stipulate that their is no warranty. Take a couple of minutes and point out any thing major that was done wrong. Who knows, 5 years down the road, that same customer may not be a little more financially situated and when he needs a new system, he will give you a call.

Out of curiosity, do you call in a computer repairman every time your computer has an issue? Do you purchase your computers from a local computer sales store or do you look online for the cheapest unit you can find? Do you install any software yourself or do you pay a professional to do it for you?

I second that. My favorite quote is from Pablo Picasso (of all people) “I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.”

The people that are capable of doing these types of things outside of their core skill have to be aware enough to understand what it is that they do not know and research it until they do. I did my own HVAC in my garage (which is now nitrogen charged, leak tested, and drawn back down waiting for my electrical inspection to be signed off on) and, although I had an automotive HVAC license years ago, I had to do a lot of research to learn how to properly install these split units, test them properly, and charge them. I did it partly to save money but mostly because it's the best way I can be sure the job is done as well as it can be. As a side benefit, I get to learn more about things I didn't know and I generally enjoy the entire learning and applying process. I do expect to stumble and make some mistakes (like ordering the linesets wrong two times) but it's part of what makes it interesting and, besides, it gives me stories to tell .

I had one insulation contractor at my garage giving me an estimate last year and he got incredibly dismissive and "uppity" about my HVAC installation (at least until he started seeing the detail I put into what I had already installed at that point - but even that didn't last long). Apparently his company also does HVAC. My only regret is not kicking him off my property for being a **** because his insulation quote was three times higher than everyone else and he continued to ignore quoting insulating the floor between my garage and my 2nd story for some stupid reason. I'm still mad about how little respect he showed...how did that serve him?

 

[Tarheelgarage]

I'm in the AC business. I can't speak for other contractors, but I'll tell you why I want nothing to do with DIY projects. For 1, the equipment is always over-sized. Usually by at least double. 2, people who DIY are looking to save money. They usually want what they need done for next to nothing, so it's not profitable. 3, the workmanship is usually horrible and the install is usually not correct. Then when there is a problem with the system or it needs additional work to make it right, they think the additional work should be done at no extra cost. One guy went as far as to threaten to not pay me at all because the system in which he did 95% of the install wouldn't work on start up. It's just not worth the headache.

what he said

 

[Mmfh]

I think I may have mis-understood at first the right orientation for the A coil, using it below the furnace and blowing into the top of the A, (the pointed part) would be the correct way to do that. I've been doing some reading but much more is necessary before I start buying materials.

I do appreciate any help you guys are able to give me on this, I'm no Professional at this stuff. But I'm not an idiot either. Basically most people think I can fix almost anything. There were times when I used to think that as well. I've done just about everything a guy can do and did a good job most every time. This is not rocket science if you think about what you are doing and not rush into anything.

I'm not going to do anything without doing my do diligence and learning how this stuff is supposed to be before doing anything. My wife and I are in bad health, and the heat really bothers us, I would love to pay someone to do this and have fun watching him and learning as he works. Just don't have the bank or the credit to pull that off. Over the next few weeks I will spend time reading and learning and asking questions everywhere I go until I get this figured out. Then I'll ask more questions. Than maybe a few more.

Full Throttle Man- There are absolutely no hard feelings at all!!! I completely understand how you feel, this is the internet and you run into all types on here and you have no way of knowing how full of **** I am. No worries from me!
Thank you for the time you spent to post.

I'm going to do a lot of research and I'll probably be back with more questions as they come up. I thank you for your time now and in the future with my stupid questions. And I do have a friend in the business if I get myself into trouble. He's just not as close of a friend as he used to be, and he is very busy.

Thank You!

Mm

 

[mayday0017]

I would like to stir things up some too maybe cause I'm an *** but maybe also because it is 100% true and these DIY guys are smart for being picky and wanting to do it themselves.

The truth is 95% of the HVAC "Pro's" you would call up to come do work for you are not "professionals" they think they are. Ask each guy you call how many ton unit you need, give him whatever info he wants... out of 10 HVAC company's here in Houston 1 got it right and used Manual J to size where the others used a SQFT to determine size ranging from 500sqft per ton to others using 1200sqft per ton. Ask them how they charge the system and make sure it is at the proper level. You will once again find many different answers. For mine i had a 410 system and asked how each person planned on charging the system and how they know when it is "Full". Had answers of well I put my hand on the line and when it is beer can cold it is good, or oh you just use a thermometer inside an air vent and make sure it blows 68 degrees, or I charge till I have a X degree temp drop, maybe you catch someone that learned from someone who knew what he was doing this guy says well I measure the super heat on the unit and is right for R22. Truth is the only way to PROPERLY get the right charge on a 410 system is to calculate the subcooling to determine charge. You should also check the super heat after and adjust your TXV to give you the proper superheat at the coil.

My point is I am not an HVAC contractor, and yeah they might know tricks of the trade and can throw in a AC, there really isn't much to installing one. Braze a couple lines, pull a vacuum, charge the system until it blows cold, oh yeah and hook up a couple color coded wires.... But the real art comes into a person that is technical enough to calculate and measure and knows he has his duct work correct by formula, or has determined the cooling required for that exact house facing that exact direction using manual J, And the guy that can get the refrigerant level where the engineering TEAM designed the system to be and had tested it to get the SEER rating you see on the label.

HVAC "Professionals" are a rare item in the world we live in, and a DIY guy that does his research can do and most likely will do a better job installing the system then a "professional" would do. (Or at least that 95% of them)

Now with all that said to the DIY guy, if you want some advise shoot me a PM I would be glad to point you to information or save you some trouble looking for a specific answer.

For the HVAC "Professional", this was not a stab at you or maybe it was, you decide.... are you in the 95% or are you in the rare 5%... I hope all of the HVAC guys on this forum are in the 5% because I think this place really has some great information floating around on all the topics I read and this information could be great too!

Cheers
Robert

 

[stevergee]

I agree, that if the DIY can partner with people that do this kind of work, they can do it right for a lot less.

I started with my furnace, at first I replaced the heat exchanger, and that was ok for about 6 months until my 2004 Goodman furnace stared having gas valve problem. So I was able to buy a new furnace through a friend at wholesale price $693. Installed it myself, shut the old unit down at 6 pm, had the new one fired up by 8pm. This was during cold Feb day in PA.
Getting ready noe to the whole house AC and we are estimating that it will cost about 1k for that part of the project.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Diesel Dan]

So far I've had 3 contractors look at my build for HVAC. None took detailed notes or even mentioned manual J or D calcs. R30 in the walls, 40 min in the attic.

Hopefully I can find a quality installer at a fair price. Or it'll be another diy project that I wasn't planning on doing.

Heck, I'm putting up 34 square of siding by myself because 4 no shows by siding contractors.

 

[Showkey]

I completely understand your point of view on this, running my Automotive business for over 20 years I've seen a lot of situations with people trying to save money and screwing things up.

With me, I'm **** about doing it right, After all this is my own house! I do a ton of research and when I finally figure I half way know what I'm doing I will start looking for materials.

If I screw it up, the last thing I'm going to do is blame a contractor that is doing it for a living. I may really need this guys help and I don't want to piss him off or make him feel its just not worth it to help me.

I know I can handle this, and I have a high school buddy that has his own HVAC business, he does mostly Commercial stuff now a days and is very busy so I don't want to bother him with stupid questions. When I feel the install is done correctly I will call him to do the Evac and recharge.

Thank You!

Mm

Sounds like you already have the skills and equipment to do the complete job with no assistance. If your auto certified you can legally by refrigerant if needed. The compressor unit.likely came precharged for standard line set.

Use the same automotive vacuum pump, use a gauge set for the refrigerant used in the home system. Use the charts and temp reading to get the charge correct if needed. Use the same Auto AC skill set to the home equipment.

Believe it or not, this home install is rocket science........and many automotive AC systems are more complex to install and fix.

There are dozens of internet vendors that now sell furnaces and AC to the DIY Guys turning the the HVAC market on its ear. DIY HVAC Install and service is NOT For everyone JOE and there dozens of ways to screw up ( you could get hurt or damage the home or equipment) but the same could be said for any garage journal activity like old car restoration, home building, electrical work, water heater install, well service, and the list goes on.

Just with the car DIY screw ups expect to pay double or triple if you screw up HVAC when you need a pro. Which is fair to all involved.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

How about some pic's of what you have there, i.e the A coil showing the connections and drain pan and the condensing unit with the connections and name and model numbers.
is it r22?.

 

[86turbodsl]

The HVAC industry is still closed to the public. Probably for good reason. For as many decent DIY types out there, there's twice as many MINIMUM hackjobs.

I'm NOT in the HVAC industry, but i am an engineer. And a DIY type. I support DIY, it's how we learn. I had to design and install my own HVAC on my house because i couldn't get a contractor to do it right. I would NOT recommend that to anyone unless i felt that they were mechanically inclined, sharp, and had access to resources and skills that many don't. These are complex systems, they aren't for amateurs. And i'm including the "pros" in that group...

 

[Trey T]

hvac-talk.com are very business savvy folks. They're dicks for couple reasons but their objective is to protect their industry, to safeguard against hacks or unlicensed folks. Ultimately HVAC guys wants to be in control of their career and make big bucks.

that site does not promote education, that's one thing they're good at - YES, they're good at talking **** to you if you're a noob. I've not been on that end of the nasty conversation yet since I do have formal education in refrigeration process and know how to formulate the questions.

 

[Diesel Dan]

I feel for SOME of the HVAC people out there. They have similar issues that auto technicians have.

However something I can not get behind is adjusting the labor due to the neighborhood or perceived income of the project owner. As a auto tech my labor was the same to put on a water pump regardless if it's an OEM, aftermarket or gold plated. What affected the labor was how hard to access the part not the cost of the part or even if the guy showed in H1 or Civic.

Just like auto techs there are good, bad and terrible ones. However an added twist for structural HVAC people is eve a good installer can be damned by a bad designer.

I'm leary because I've been in many homes in several states that had systems installed by certified people that were not designed properly.

There are many people on this board who are not your normal DIYer and with proper homework can design and install a basic HVAC system, IMO. Short of the license to legally fill a system that is.

 

[aka Larry]

I had no idea A/C was even needed in Oregon. What's the high temperature there? Like 85 for a week or so?

 

[jdcompman]

I do not want to start a flame war with the HVAC professionals around here and I understand your points.

There are tons and tons of people that can not even change a light bulb. These folks are completely reliant on professionals for all their needs.

Then there is a relatively smaller group that are pretty good handy men and can figure out most things and have the mechanical ability. Most of what they lack, they can safely learn by reading books and the Internet.


"We" are the ones that can change our own oil and hoses and belts. We can do a brake job and replace a radiator. We need the professionals only for the more advanced stuff.

I recently installed my own HVAC. I have the skills to drag the air handler upstairs, build a box stand for it, measure and have the plenums fabricated and then attach them to the air handler. I was able to apply the mastic to seal everything up, cut the holes for the duct starter collars, install the collars ans run the flex duct. I ran the electrical, thermostat wire and poured my own concrete pad.

What I can not do or do not have the proper equipment is to braze the lines, pull a vacuum and set the proper charges. For that, I will need to hire a professional which I have done. Easy $200.00 bucks for him. I am not sure what there is to complain about? He comes in, spends about 15 minutes with a torch and spends most to of the remaining time doing very little manual labor.

Now, ask me how I calculated what size unit I needed. Easy, i called for three estimates from three professional installers. All three asked the same question, how many square feet. All three gave me an estimate for a 4 ton unit. Cheapest one was $8500.00.

Wife and I did it for a total of under $3800.00. This was in a new construction residential home. Now I have no problem with people earning a living but when I can not even get one of these professional companies to pretend to at least do a manual J, then I have no hard feelings for giving them the finger.

I too am a professional in my field. I have also learned that some of my clients have more skills than others. Some are just starting out in business and I have no problem helping them out and showing them a few tricks. Instead of calling them cheap or tight wads, giving them a few minutes of my time or a little help has given me customers for life.

If a customer simply wants you to vacuum and charge, all you have to do is stipulate that their is no warranty. Take a couple of minutes and point out any thing major that was done wrong. Who knows, 5 years down the road, that same customer may not be a little more financially situated and when he needs a new system, he will give you a call.

Out of curiosity, do you call in a computer repairman every time your computer has an issue? Do you purchase your computers from a local computer sales store or do you look online for the cheapest unit you can find? Do you install any software yourself or do you pay a professional to do it for you?

This and This!

I would like to stir things up some too maybe cause I'm an *** but maybe also because it is 100% true and these DIY guys are smart for being picky and wanting to do it themselves.

The truth is 95% of the HVAC "Pro's" you would call up to come do work for you are not "professionals" they think they are. Ask each guy you call how many ton unit you need, give him whatever info he wants... out of 10 HVAC company's here in Houston 1 got it right and used Manual J to size where the others used a SQFT to determine size ranging from 500sqft per ton to others using 1200sqft per ton. Ask them how they charge the system and make sure it is at the proper level. You will once again find many different answers. For mine i had a 410 system and asked how each person planned on charging the system and how they know when it is "Full". Had answers of well I put my hand on the line and when it is beer can cold it is good, or oh you just use a thermometer inside an air vent and make sure it blows 68 degrees, or I charge till I have a X degree temp drop, maybe you catch someone that learned from someone who knew what he was doing this guy says well I measure the super heat on the unit and is right for R22. Truth is the only way to PROPERLY get the right charge on a 410 system is to calculate the subcooling to determine charge. You should also check the super heat after and adjust your TXV to give you the proper superheat at the coil.

My point is I am not an HVAC contractor, and yeah they might know tricks of the trade and can throw in a AC, there really isn't much to installing one. Braze a couple lines, pull a vacuum, charge the system until it blows cold, oh yeah and hook up a couple color coded wires.... But the real art comes into a person that is technical enough to calculate and measure and knows he has his duct work correct by formula, or has determined the cooling required for that exact house facing that exact direction using manual J, And the guy that can get the refrigerant level where the engineering TEAM designed the system to be and had tested it to get the SEER rating you see on the label.

HVAC "Professionals" are a rare item in the world we live in, and a DIY guy that does his research can do and most likely will do a better job installing the system then a "professional" would do. (Or at least that 95% of them)

Now with all that said to the DIY guy, if you want some advise shoot me a PM I would be glad to point you to information or save you some trouble looking for a specific answer.

For the HVAC "Professional", this was not a stab at you or maybe it was, you decide.... are you in the 95% or are you in the rare 5%... I hope all of the HVAC guys on this forum are in the 5% because I think this place really has some great information floating around on all the topics I read and this information could be great too!

Cheers
Robert

I couldn't agree more with both of these. I did the research, bought the tools and ultimately ended up with a way better system and installation than most "professional" jobs I've ever seen.

To the OP - This industry isn't rocket science by any stretch of the imagination. Having said that, It's definitely not for everyone. As long as your willing to put in the time to read the theory and science behind it, do the calculations, buy the tools and pay attention to the details during the install, you'll have a wonderfully installed and running system.

 

[86turbodsl]

hvac-talk.com are very business savvy folks. They're dicks for couple reasons but their objective is to protect their industry, to safeguard against hacks or unlicensed folks. Ultimately hvac guys wants to be in control of their career and make big bucks.

That site does not promote education, that's one thing they're good at - yes, they're good at talking **** to you if you're a noob. I've not been on that end of the nasty conversation yet since i do have formal education in refrigeration process and know how to formulate the questions.

^^^^ this.

 

[oilslick]

I do not want to start a flame war with the HVAC professionals around here and I understand your points.

There are tons and tons of people that can not even change a light bulb. These folks are completely reliant on professionals for all their needs.

Then there is a relatively smaller group that are pretty good handy men and can figure out most things and have the mechanical ability. Most of what they lack, they can safely learn by reading books and the Internet.


"We" are the ones that can change our own oil and hoses and belts. We can do a brake job and replace a radiator. We need the professionals only for the more advanced stuff.

I recently installed my own HVAC. I have the skills to drag the air handler upstairs, build a box stand for it, measure and have the plenums fabricated and then attach them to the air handler. I was able to apply the mastic to seal everything up, cut the holes for the duct starter collars, install the collars ans run the flex duct. I ran the electrical, thermostat wire and poured my own concrete pad.

What I can not do or do not have the proper equipment is to braze the lines, pull a vacuum and set the proper charges. For that, I will need to hire a professional which I have done. Easy $200.00 bucks for him. I am not sure what there is to complain about? He comes in, spends about 15 minutes with a torch and spends most to of the remaining time doing very little manual labor.

Now, ask me how I calculated what size unit I needed. Easy, i called for three estimates from three professional installers. All three asked the same question, how many square feet. All three gave me an estimate for a 4 ton unit. Cheapest one was $8500.00.

Wife and I did it for a total of under $3800.00. This was in a new construction residential home. Now I have no problem with people earning a living but when I can not even get one of these professional companies to pretend to at least do a manual J, then I have no hard feelings for giving them the finger.

I too am a professional in my field. I have also learned that some of my clients have more skills than others. Some are just starting out in business and I have no problem helping them out and showing them a few tricks. Instead of calling them cheap or tight wads, giving them a few minutes of my time or a little help has given me customers for life.

If a customer simply wants you to vacuum and charge, all you have to do is stipulate that their is no warranty. Take a couple of minutes and point out any thing major that was done wrong. Who knows, 5 years down the road, that same customer may not be a little more financially situated and when he needs a new system, he will give you a call.

Out of curiosity, do you call in a computer repairman every time your computer has an issue? Do you purchase your computers from a local computer sales store or do you look online for the cheapest unit you can find? Do you install any software yourself or do you pay a professional to do it for you?

I like this reply,lots of good positive points. Great advice for the diy, and the pro with maybe a little bit of a bad attitude towards diy fellas with some skills.

 

[nsula_country]

Good points




to the OP

I do apologize for comming of pretty rude to you, there was a couple of posts refering to HVAC-Talk that ticked me off, why? that forum is and was set up for Pro's only by contracting magazine. I had to E-mail them my certifications and a copy of my HVAC License to gain access to the ''good'' parts of te site. It is a place where we can discuss thermodynamic's, building science, confidential service alerts, building codes etc, we do get alot of DIY there as well which is not tolerated. There are a few ''Pro's'' there that couldn't spell HVAC let alone work on one.

I am a Pro Member on HVAC TALK too.

CT