Have You Ever Been Shocked By Your Tools?

[MrMark]

Good argument Outlaws. You make a post with BS and get called on it and then shown chapter and verse with unimpeachable references how you are misinformed and the best you can come up with is calling someone who has been here longer than you a troll. Rather than admit you are wrong or at least attempt to get some understanding of an admittedly complex area outside of your ken you stick to your guns and produce a 1958 book that in the most charitable interpretation you have misunderstood. This would seem to be the work of that troll that you are quick to call others.

You state I stoop to mischaracterising your quoted references but don't show where I have done so. All my posts have been on topic, as if that matters, on a discussion forum. My first post corrected the misstatements in your post and added my own shocking experience. Things went on from there with you digging in those I can't ever be wrong heels. Too bad for you.

 

[signcrafter]

Current returns to its source, whether it be a battery, a transformer, a generator, whatever, it won't flow unless it can return to its source.

So if I go unhook a recepticle and have the wires hanging out of the wall I can grab onto the black hot wire and not get shocked because "current won't flow unless it can return to it's source" and I'm not touching the nuetral so it's not returning to it's source, the panel or the transformer, right?

 

[MrMark]

So if I go unhook a recepticle and have the wires hanging out of the wall I can grab onto the black hot wire and not get shocked because "current won't flow unless it can return to it's source" and I'm not touching the nuetral so it's not returning to it's source, the panel or the transformer, right?

Right. Unless you manage to ground yourself well enough that more than around 15 mA or so flows through your heart and then through the dirt to the transformer. It all depends on the quality of your grounding yourself.

Remember, you have created the very very dangerous open neutral scenario where there is no low impedance path neutral wire back to the transformer. There is also no EGC path (ground wire) back to the service neutral and transformer. The great danger of this scenario is that even though the dirt conducts so little, the dirt path (thru your body) is the only path and it only takes tiny amounts to hurt you.

The transformer is connected to ground at the vault and the minute return current can use that path through the bare earth. The current could also travel through the earth to the nearest water pipe (which is bonded to neutral) or ground rod (which is bonded to neutral) and go back on the service neutral to the transformer that way.

 

[MrMark]

Have you ever seen an old timer electrician wet his fingers and touch wires to see which ones were hot? Well, that little bit of moisture helps the electricity conduct to his hand and then thru his body and then through the earth to the water pipe or whatever is bonded to neutral or maybe even all the way through the dirt to a nearby transformer. Of course, the guy is an idiot because he has no way of knowing the impedance of the path he has placed himself in between hot and return. But, the example shows you how little current makes its way through such a path.

 

[Outlawmws]

Wow, just wow! Man your friends in the legal profession you have professed to be in would be proud of you Mark! Don’t they call that "Tampering with the evidence" in your trade?

You've edited every one of your posts, removing all the insults and innuendo, and changing your story around, thinking I then can't call you on it!

You are even are arrogant enough to “sign” one of the edits! But poor, poor Mark,,, Outlaw called him a troll!....

Last edited by MrMark; Today at 04:48 PM. Reason: to be gracious in victory

Are you that desperate to "win" (or appear to do so..) that you have to go tamper with your posts, hide the evidence of what I called you on, and then you have the gall to tell me to "prove it!"

Just more trollish behavior there!

Good argument Outlaws. You make a post with BS and get called on it and then shown chapter and verse with unimpeachable references how you are misinformed and the best you can come up with is calling someone who has been here longer than you a troll. Rather than admit you are wrong or at least attempt to get some understanding of an admittedly complex area outside of your ken you stick to your guns and produce a 1958 book that in the most charitable interpretation you have misunderstood. This would seem to be the work of that troll that you are quick to call others.

You state I stoop to mischaracterising your quoted references but don't show where I have done so. All my posts have been on topic, as if that matters, on a discussion forum. My first post corrected the misstatements in your post and added my own shocking experience. Things went on from there with you digging in those I can't ever be wrong heels. Too bad for you.

 

[MrMark]

I edited my posts to add material and to make them more readable. I do that out on most technical material posts.

I did edit out one remark a made that could be characterized as an insult out of respect to the forum and Ryan. I was guilty of making a slight insult and cleaned it up. You deserved far worse than what you got on this. I could have shishkabobed you but let it go. That is being gracious and I noted that in my edit, something you should try.

 

[shurik06_83]

swing stage hoist motor I was up about 30 story's it started raining so we start going down as i push the button to descend i start getting a 240V zap i let go i push another zap I used the wooden handle on my brick hammer to go the rest of the way

 

[knobby]

I had a old makita palm sander burn a small hole in my hand when (my guess) my sweat provided a better path to ground than the cord. what sucked the most was that the electrical charge caused my hand to clench the damn thing and I couldn't release it luckily my friend (in a wheelchair no less) was able to unplug it before anything really bad happened

 

[Vvmvbb]

Right. Unless you manage to ground yourself well enough that more than around 15 mA or so flows through your heart and then through the dirt to the transformer. It all depends on the quality of your grounding yourself.

Remember, you have created the very very dangerous open neutral scenario where there is no low impedance path neutral wire back to the transformer. There is also no EGC path (ground wire) back to the service neutral and transformer. The great danger of this scenario is that even though the dirt conducts so little, the dirt path (thru your body) is the only path and it only takes tiny amounts to hurt you.

The transformer is connected to ground at the vault and the minute return current can use that path through the bare earth. The current could also travel through the earth to the nearest water pipe (which is bonded to neutral) or ground rod (which is bonded to neutral) and go back on the service neutral to the transformer that way.

MrMark, please cut this out before you kill someone. No joke. Its never alright to touch a hot line. Egad.